AM Mets Notes: Ike Davis, Andres Torres, Mike Nickeas, Ruben Tejada

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• Mr North Jersey February 22, 2012 at 3:05 pm

  Glad to hear Ike can resume play the last thing thing the Mets need is him to miss more time due to some medical issue. On another note has there ever been a number unretired in MLB cause I’m reading the Marlins offered to unretire #5 for Lomo so he can honor his dad who passed away from Cancer back in 2010 and loved George Brett. The #5 was retired n honor of Carl Barger who was team president when he passed away back in 1992. His favorite player was Joe DiMaggio who wore #5.

  http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/17371245/marlins-to-unretire-no-5-so-morrison-can-pay-tribute-to-late-dad
  • srt February 22, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    I remember that interview in the stands with Logan’s Dad. Heard about his subsequent passing – sad….

    This is kind of a dishonor to Barger’s family even though it’s a nice gesture by the Marlin’s for Lomo. In hindsight, I guess they should have found another way to honor Carl Barger.
    • Mr North Jersey February 22, 2012 at 3:23 pm

      I would guess that they at least got the blessing from Barger’s family before approaching Lomo with this don’t you think SRT?
      • srt February 22, 2012 at 3:28 pm

        That would make sense. Don’t know anything about the Marlin’s operation though.
        You know if that were the Mets and it was being reported it would probably be because they found some way to muck it up…..
• Trade Wright for Nolan Arenado February 22, 2012 at 3:18 pm

  “Encouraging news” = a MLB player hit some homeruns in batting practice.

  Being a Mets fan just got a little more embarrassing that encouraging news now takes the form of batting practice homeruns. Just imagine how encouraging it will be to hear that the pitchers are able to throw strikes in a bullpen session.
  • chad February 22, 2012 at 11:10 pm

    want some cheese wit that wine?

    relax moron, every team has reports like that in the spring. get a life
    • Joey D. February 22, 2012 at 11:27 pm

      Based on the actual quote I thought the Burkhardt comment was directed toward Citi Field’s new dimensions and not really Murphy looking good taking swings in the cage. Last year those did not go out, even in batting practice. That is the encouraging news – players won’t have to be reminded anymore about shots that went for outs would have been home runs most anywhere else.
      • Stick February 22, 2012 at 11:31 pm

        you are correct. some people just like to complain.
        • Trade Wright for Nolan Arenado February 23, 2012 at 2:54 pm

          Trying to decipher where I whined and/or complained…simply stated that a major league baseball player hitting homeruns in batting practice is not news nor is it anything to find encouragement out of. Murphy has a career .441 slugging percentage and led the team in HRs in 2009 (albeit with only 12, but still). His hitting some homeruns in a field with a shorter distance to the wall off of 75 mph “fastballs” is not encouraging at all. “Encouraging news” would be David Wright not being beaten by an 88 mph fastball on a 2-0 count during an actual game.
          • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 3:00 pm

            I think the point is that there are quite a few HR that are pilling up in between the 2 walls which suggest that it could help. Also the fact that Murphy appears to be ready to go.
          • Des February 23, 2012 at 3:11 pm

            Trade Wright for Nolan Arenado — You may not think you’re whining but you’re not saying you’re not a moron. Everybody agrees with you. It’s unanimous.
            • Trade Wright for Nolan Arenado February 23, 2012 at 4:23 pm

              Des – Just so my moronic mind can understand…I am a moron due to the fact that I do not find it to be overtly encouraging the a veteran MLB batter hits batting practice homeruns? Thank you for enlightening me.
• Donal February 23, 2012 at 9:05 am

  I can see why they want Torres leading off, but I’d still prefer Murphy.
  • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 9:08 am

    I think better off eventually would be Ruben followed by Murphy but we shall see how things work out.
    • Donal February 23, 2012 at 9:12 am

      I’m sure whatever we see OD is temporary, especially regarding CF and lead off.
      • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 9:14 am

        I am really curious about Torres. Was it a down year or is he done? Why is it so far fetched that he can return to 2010 numbers? It’s not like it was 5 years ago.
        • XtreemIcon February 23, 2012 at 9:24 am

          I’ve been saying that since the Sandy haters denounced the trade before it was even official. 2010 was better than Pagan’s when you factor in defense, baserunning and smart playing, which the Sandy haters go on and on about, except when fits their argument not to.
        • srt February 23, 2012 at 9:24 am

          Me too. For once I’d like to see the luck go our way and he looks more like the 2010 Torres, not the 2011 Torres.
          He worked out with Beltran so if he looks more like the 2011 Torres, #blamebeltran?
        • Donal February 23, 2012 at 9:24 am

          The problem I think is 2010 was the first time Torres had more than 200 PAs. He also spent 3 full years out of the big league.

          I expect the same thing from him that I do Nickeas. Play really good defense and don’t be an automatic out. I can live with that.
  • Alex68 February 23, 2012 at 9:27 am

    I can see why they want Torres leading off”

    EXPLAIN TO US WHY ANYONE WOULD WANT A GUY WHO HIT 221 LAST YEAR AND IS A CAREER 244 HITTER AS A LEADOFF HITTER????
    Seriouslym this is getting sadder and sadder by the day….
    • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 9:29 am

      I guess because he is the only guy on the roster with lead-off experience?
    • Donal February 23, 2012 at 9:33 am

      To quell the people who can’t wrap their heads around the idea of a lead off man who isn’t super fast.

      Also, in 2009 ans 2010, he had an OBP of .343. If that is the Torres that shows up, it is a huge boon for the offense.

      “Seriouslym this is getting sadder and sadder by the day….”

      Yes, but when you decide to get out of your spiraling descent, we’ll be here for you.
    • Alex68 February 23, 2012 at 9:43 am

      wait, people here were destroying reyes for lack of OBP at a 337.. now we’re praising a guy who is a 244 career hitter with career OBP of 318!?!!?!!?!?!?!!?!
      TRS86, you understand that the only reason why people would even defend this move is because sandy acquire the guy??? you see my point… ?
      Alex Cora is a 244 career hitter and that was one of omar’s biggest blunder, fast forward to sandy and his legion of fans, a 244 career hitter making MORE is a good move for the franchise…
      • Donal February 23, 2012 at 9:50 am

        No one is super excited about it. I think everyone is in agreement that this is just an experiment and Torres is just holding Capt Kirk’s place anyway.

        And you ignored where I said I’d rather Murphy leading off. But, I’m willing to see which Torres shows up. If the 2010 version is leading off Opening Day, that would be a good thing.
      • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 9:54 am

        Seriously, who is praising him? Again you are basing your entire opinion on what 2 or 3 others are saying and posting.

        Torres, I see him as a guy that if he returns to 2010 form is the equivalent of Pagan with better base-running and defensive skills. If he does not then he will be a 5th OF at best and one of the kids will take his place. Is that praising and worthy of all this negativity? Am I saying that because Sandy traded for him?

        The trade was for Ramirez. Torres was a throw in to play CF until a kid was ready. Why is this so hard to understand? Would I bat him leadoff? No. I would put Tejada there but I don’t know Ruben’s mental makeup. Can he handle leading off and playing SS THIS season? If not then who exactly will be the lead-off hitter? It could be Murphy but his baserunning skills are awful and he is most likely needed lower in the order.
        • Vinny B February 23, 2012 at 10:34 am

          Well, in the begining there were a lot of people that “praised”him. Now it’s died down a lot(thank god) probably because he really hasn’t done anything special. It was nauseating. People were saying stuff like, “genius move”, “he is so smart”, “remarkable offseason”, “he’s going to change the team because of his sabermetric philosophy”(which is the only reason why those people liked him, by the way). Then you had the Brad Emaus craze, oh and my favortie one was the post about (I think it was Lerner who worte it) how great the offseason was because he “revamped” the team with not much money, and used spring traning numbers to show how great the signings were – Yes, spring traning numbers. Oh and “Alderson uncovers a gem in Chris Young” after two starts – Two starts! And he went on the DL and was out for the year like about 2 weeks after the post was written.

          So, maybe if you were around last offseason, you would have seen how biased some people are on here about Alderson.

          And IMO, the only reason why you don’t see that stuff any more is because Alderson hasn’t done anything special – I’m sure if this year some of his signings turn out really good, all of that is going to resurface again.
          • Alex68 February 23, 2012 at 10:38 am

            Vinny, the CORE salute you as always… which then, make real mets fans like us wish the team and players FAIL just because those same extremist will come here and fill the site with garbage as* articles about the moves made by alderson, i mean, there were constant brandon nimmo articles and updates, hell, there were even posting article about the kid eating steaks!!!!!! for god’s sake, who the **** CARES!!!!!!!! but those articles were made JUST BECAUSE it was sandy “the lord of sabermetrics” alderson at the helm..
            • Vinny B February 23, 2012 at 11:18 am

              I wouldn’t go that far, Alex.

              But anyway, people always like to say “it was only a few people”. It wasn’t only a few people. It was a lot of people, and that garbage was posetd here almost every day. We had to keep hearing about how great his philosophy is, his intelligence, and how great every move he made was. People like to say, “it wasn’t that bad”, but really, it was that bad.

              They also like to say that “people started attacking him from day 1″. Which is untrue. It was only after the sabers set the bar so unbelievably high for Alderson, and after that signed a bunch of minor leaguers and old, injury prone players, that the attacks started.
              • Donal February 23, 2012 at 11:30 am

                It doesn’t matter how often you say it, it just isn’t true.

                And don’t try and make people feel bad for being optimistic about their team.
              • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 11:32 am

                Vinny do you allow what posters think to influence your opinion?
              • Joey D. February 23, 2012 at 11:38 am

                Vinnie,

                Excellent assessment. I had no opinion of Sandy one way or the other until he started releasing guys like Takahashi and Feliciano and began replacing them with Young, Capuano and Carasco. It was when the supporters of money ball lauded these moves as part of a new philosophy that I started voicing such an opposite view. All I heard was confidence in Sandy’s ability to see things in undervalued players based on sabremetrics that other GM’s missed.

                That’s the difference – the money ballers jumped on the bandwagon instead of seeing these moves for what they were – salary dumping. I’m giving Sandy a pass even though I disagree with most all the moves he made simply because I believe he has been forced to be a bean counter and doubt he would be handling the job the way he has had he had more beans to count. Who knows, if I had the experience to be a GM and was working for the Wilpons, I might be doing the same thing – but that doesn’t make it right for the ballclub as it does for ownership.
                • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 11:42 am

                  Again, some are basing their opinions on facts about what Sandy has done while others are basing their opinions to combat other opinions. The latter is the one I have an issue with. You feel you need to be constantly negative about Sandy because someone is positive? That makes no sense at all. I judge him based on what I see as his overall plan, the resources he has to work with, and finally the moves made towards what I see as the overall plan. Of course all of these things would be based on personal opinion and I can’t for the life of me understand the constant need to play sides.
            • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 11:31 am

              “make real mets fans like us” wow, so now you are becoming what you hate? You are becoming one who says that you have to believe a certain way to be a Mets fan.

              Also, you are proving my previous point that you allow what is written in the media and by random posters to affect you in such a negative way that it actually dictates your opinion on the person, player or situation.
            • Donal February 23, 2012 at 11:41 am

              “make real mets fans like us wish the team and players FAIL”

              Real Mets fans root for the Marlins and hate the Mets players. Ya, that sounds not insane.
          • Donal February 23, 2012 at 10:55 am

            Oh stop. A couple of posts excited about a new direction.

            I wonder why you are so silent about wave after wave of attacks that started off day 1.
          • Donal February 23, 2012 at 11:39 am

            “which is the only reason why those people liked him, by the way”

            Still claim to be a mind reader, I see.
            • Vinny B February 23, 2012 at 11:56 am

              And I have seen you say people dislike Alderson only because of a book they never read – I guess that makes you a mind reader also.
              • Donal February 23, 2012 at 12:03 pm

                No, just a reader. I take what people say at face value.
                • Vinny B February 23, 2012 at 12:15 pm

                  Well, then, you misread.
                  • Donal February 23, 2012 at 12:21 pm

                    Or certain people do a lousy job of expressing themselves

                    Or I’m right

                    Probably a little of both.
                  • Alex68 February 23, 2012 at 2:02 pm

                    Vinny, word of advice from the CORE, do not engage with that guy, he’s one/if not the worst person here, he’s like 22 years old and thinks he knows more baseball than all of us here combined, raved about a book baseball people mock all the time for being pure crap and nothing to do with baseball, he often insult people or try to bait them if their opinion don’t match his idiotic statements, don’t waste your time, all he got left is metsie who somehow keeps debating with him for some reason..
                    TRS is more decent but he reverts back to what he was in metsblog… but overall he’s someone who will at least respect your opinion or will try to debate politely!!
                  • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 3:22 pm

                    “TRS is more decent but he reverts back to what he was in metsblog… but overall he’s someone who will at least respect your opinion or will try to debate politely!!”

                    LOL, I wonder if the same could be said of you?
                  • Donal February 23, 2012 at 4:38 pm

                    You know, it isn’t ignoring me when you have to talk about me. Especially when you bring me up in conversations I have nothing to do with.

                    But hey, everything else in your post was wrong (not new ground for you).
              • Vinny B February 23, 2012 at 4:51 pm

                Alex, he always likes to say I think I’m a “mind reader”. But you know what’s funny about that? He’s the one that always thinks he knows what my intentions(and other posters) are. Like about saying people only dislike Alderson because of a book, which is not true(I’ll expand on that in a bit). And like today, he thinks I’m trying to make people feel bad for being optimistic, which is again, not true. So maybe he’s the one that thinks he’s “mind reader”.

                I also think it’s really funny that he said I’m ” trying making people feel bad for being optimistic” because last year I was probably the most optimistic poster on here – I said we could compete for the wild card all year long – I said it before the season started, when we started 5-13, and at the trading deadline – I was sometimes attacked for saying that, and I even argued with Donal about it – And he’s now accusing ME of trying to make people feel bad for being optimistic?

                The stuff I was talking about today wasn’t “optimisim”. It was about people going way over the top with praise for Alderson, only because of his philosophy, and nothing else…….
                • stick February 23, 2012 at 5:00 pm

                  Vinny, I read most everthing that gets posted here and honestly don’t know where all this “people going way over the top with praise for Alderson, only because of his philosophy, and nothing else…….” is.

                  there are people that don’t hate him, or want to give the benefit of the doubt until they see him operate with a norma, budget (or just a few years to execute whatever the plan is).

                  But over the top praise? just don’t see it. Over the top bashing yes, but not the counter to that.
                  • Vinny B February 23, 2012 at 5:15 pm

                    Stick, did you read my 1st post? I explained it.
              • Vinny B February 23, 2012 at 4:52 pm

                …And about “people only disliking Alderson beacuse of a book”. And “attacking him from day 1″

                It’s not true. I remember Me, Bayonne, and Maniac, saying that we did not care what his philosophy was, as long as he put a good team on the field. And defended him early on(I can show you if you don’t believe me).

                Also, I don’t remember you commenting here around the when Aldreson was hired. It was only untill Jan of last year that I noticed your comments. So I want to know if you actually read the comments around the time when Alderson was hired? Or did you just jump in, after the sabers set the bar so high for him and after Alderson signed a whole bunch of minor leaguers and old injury prone players? If you did, you can’t say you knew what was said when it 1st happend because you weren’t there.
                • Met Maniac February 23, 2012 at 5:07 pm

                  Well said and all true Vinny. I’ve grown tired of the kindergarten stuff some of these posters still persist in. Tried making peace with them a couple of times, etc. They wont change because the think they know it all and that they are on high moral ground. The same behaviors they accuse others of, they engage in themselves the least of which is instigating and insulting when someone disagrees with their opinions. They complain about being labeled and yet look, a few of the just did in this thread.
    • Mr North Jersey February 23, 2012 at 9:52 am

      You know Alex I kid you about Torres and comeback player of the year but the reality is I agree with you about the concern surrounding his bat. Personally I am focusing on him being a better defensive center fielder than Pagan was if the reports about him are true. Batting wise even Alderson when he was on Mike’d Up said he didn’t really have a prototypical leadoff hitter and that Torres bat was indeed a concern for the leadoff spot. My guess is Torres may be the 1st in line to bat leadoff but odds are that spot will be rotated among the likes of Murphy, Tejada and Torres throughout the season.
      • stick February 23, 2012 at 10:06 am

        I agree about a lot of things on the team being tentative. And even saying what they expect to happen OD now means little. A lot will change depending on how ST goes, and to seme extent the early part of season.

        some items subject to change at any time (just off top of my head):

        - CF starter
        - lead off hitter (hell, much of the lineup could get shuffled)
        - Bay every day vs. platoon
        - murphy at 2B
        - BU/platoon catcher
        - Closer/set up man.

        Sure, for all of these items, the team has a currently working plan (what they hope/expect to happen). And every one of them could change by OD or shortly after. And no, it does not mean that the FO is “lying”
• Donal February 23, 2012 at 9:06 am

  From Rubin: Ike Davis had an infection in his lung.

  Really? We’re starting that crap before training camp?
  • srt February 23, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Saw that. And better before camp then once the season starts.
    Not sure how you can have a minor lung infection and not even know it.
    • Donal February 23, 2012 at 9:38 am

      Hey, my girlfriend knows a woman who didn’t know she was pregnant until she went into labor. There is even a TV series about it. A lung infection seems minor next to that.
      • srt February 23, 2012 at 10:11 am

        I would just think any kind of infection of the lungs would manifest itself as more difficult to breath. But what do I know?

        On the what do I know…..speaking as a female I cannot wrap my brain around the fact that you could be pregnant and not know it.
        • Donal February 23, 2012 at 10:43 am

          Well, I can see Ike thinking it was just bad chest cold that didn’t go away.
          • stick February 23, 2012 at 12:50 pm

            I had that once. It wasn’t a cold.
• Cjmcnell February 23, 2012 at 10:08 am

  Is it me or TC needs to cut Ruben Tejada some slack here. His visa problem was unforseen. I’m sure he wanted to be there early as possible, hell I know he needs to be there early as possible
  • Donal February 23, 2012 at 10:10 am

    We don’t know what really happened. I think this is another case of “slow news day so lets drum up some controversy” by the beat writers.
  • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 10:12 am

    Based on what I am reading the Visa issue is more of an issue because he could have taken care of it much earlier.
    • srt February 23, 2012 at 10:16 am

      I read the same thing. Said Mets had it ready to go in Nov and Tejada didn’t get around to picking it up until a few days ago.
  • Des February 23, 2012 at 10:48 am

    Cjmcnell — Terry Collins had problems last year with Ronnie Paulino’s late arrival for spring training which was tied to his failure to secure a Visa. Then Paulino went on to have a season in which the team’s brass saw him as lackadaisical. So Collins may want to impress on Tejada that he has to stay on top of things. It’s no big deal, but it could have been avoided.
  • NJstuckinTX February 23, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    I agree. Not saying he can’t be intense, but getting pissed at people for not showing up early is silly, in my mind.
• Donal February 23, 2012 at 10:15 am

  Off Topic (although not really given the nature of these posts): According to Lennon, Beltran did indeed pay for Niese’s nose job since insurance didn’t cover it.
  • srt February 23, 2012 at 10:17 am

    Really?
    Good for Carlos. Always said he was a man of class.
    • Joey D. February 23, 2012 at 10:25 am

      Yes, Beltran picked up the tab and I’m surprised the Mets didn’t do so. After all, if it affected his breathing would that not have some sort of impact, even though minor, on his excertion on the mound? Just hope we don’t find he actually pitched better with the condition and that relieving it threw off his game.

      Wonder how much of Carlos’s influence was lost in the clubhouse after he was sent packing? Again, the intangeables and lessons learned that can stay with young players long after the veteran departs.
      • srt February 23, 2012 at 11:06 am

        Regarding Carlos, I’m of the opinion he was much more a leader in that clubhouse the past few years than anyone gave him credit for. TC said as much last season.

        On the surgery, I can’t imagine why insurance didn’t pick this up. I too got the impression it was more for a health issue than it was for a plastic surgery type issue and just wanting to look better.
        Jeeze, I think even my insurance would cover it if it was a health issue. And I know my insurance isn’t anywhere near as good as these players have.
        • Joey D. February 23, 2012 at 11:29 am

          Hi SRT,

          That’s a point I wanted to stress but kind of chickened out of because I’ve said it so often.

          The influence that Carlos Beltran had in that clubhouse was invaluable to a young team. Veteran players often leave their marks way beyond the time they packed their bags.

          In the past Beltran would have remained on the club for just such purpose with the youngsters playing better than expected and holding their own in the wild card race. But the financial situation being what it is, the Mets no longer look at all the options available to help the team rebuild – only the ones that could help them financially.

          The Mets were building confidence in themselves before the trades were made. Now, I won’t be so stubborn to say that obtaining a Zach Wheeler wasn’t a bad move for a team in the re-building stage. I just wish others who like the trade would admit what the confidence and maturing steps that could have been obtained by keeping Carlos (and KRod) wouldn’t have been a bad move either in the long term sense. Both have their merits.
          • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 11:36 am

            In a vacuum but that being said keeping Beltran would have hindered the development of Duda. Keeping Krod … it was just a bad idea to start with. The Mets had to keep that option from renewing, the entire fanbase almost knew that. There were option clocks on almost every Mets site.
            • srt February 23, 2012 at 11:48 am

              While I understand Joey’s point – especially since Beltran was one of my favorite Mets from that era, what you say can’t be disputed.
              When SA got the offer for Wheeler, it would have been crazy not to have made that trade.
              • Joey D. February 23, 2012 at 12:53 pm

                Understand both your points. As I said, there were many options available but I think fiscal restraint limited it. Had Sandy not been in such a position and still went ahead with the trade, I would have trusted his judgement since it was his call to make, not the Wilpons.

                Which again raises the point one must make in defense of Sandy, whether they agree with him or not. His hands are tied and until the handcuffs come off, we don’t really know what he might have done otherwise.

                And that, in turn, begs another question. Now let us consider that the Wilpons financial trouble wasn’t like it was. Is it unreasonable to think that instead of dismantling it, Sandy might have tried to help the team continue making it’s run at the wild card not only by keeping KRod and Beltran but also shoring up the pitching staff somewhat by getting a starter in the form of Doug Fister or Edwin Jackson, or relief help in Octovio Dotel, Brad Ziegler or Mike Adams WITHOUT (of course) sacrificing any of our top talent in the minor leagues? Could he not have attempted to build for the future and concentrate on winning now at the same time?

                Yes, all this is only another “what if” and irrelevant to the real situation at hand, but it’s also an important question to ask simply because we might have gotten a glimpse of the real Sandy Alderson without his hands tied behind his back.
                • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 1:04 pm

                  Regardless I can’t see any situation based on the facts of last year and the situation the organization is in that keeping Beltran would have been a good move. Not even looking at money but looking at the position of the team, the lack of high level prospects in the farm and the 0% chance of Beltran returning in 2012 the fact that Sandy even got back Wheeler is a point in his positive column.
                  • Joey D. February 23, 2012 at 1:36 pm

                    TR,

                    You don’t think adding a starter like Fisk or Jackson and getting a reliever like Dotel, ZIegel or Adams wouldn’t have helped this team?

                    I really don’t think, under better financial circumstances, KRod or Beltran would have been sent packing and that we would not have attempted to add a starter and reliever, even if for a rental, if it didn’t mean sacrificing our farm system of anyone we felt was a real top prospect. Again, we’re hypothesizing about finances being different and Sandy having a free hand in doing his job. Wonder if Sandy would have answered such a question during one of his tweets?

                    I do think that never again would owners be so stupid as to add a $17 million bonus for games finished either no matter who the guy was.

                    And as far as leadership, no doubt KRod would have ran out from of the bullpen to punch Prince Fielder in the nose last year in that brawl that almost errupted in Milwaukee. Benjamin Baumer would simply have gotten the sabremetric projection on the odds of KRod again hurting his hand and would have called TC in the dugout if KRod needed to be stopped in mid-field.
                  • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 2:45 pm

                    Nope, I do not think that it was worth the risk to try and trade what few prospects we had to make a run at something that we were logically not going to get. Considering the fact that A) Beltran was gone regardless B) No one in baseball thought we could net a top prospect for him
                    Sandy would have been foolish to keep him.
                • srt February 23, 2012 at 1:17 pm

                  In the case of just Beltran, I’m not sure the money situation played into it all.

                  He had a no arbitration clause and given the fact that he was going to be a FA at the end of the year – and in all likelihood not resigning here (don’t think Beltran would have resigned here even if the offer was made) – he was being shopped around. Don’t think that was a secret.

                  And I’m not saying he should have been traded for a bag of balls – no matter what and money situation be damned. I’m saying that once he got the offer from San Fran for Wheeler, it would have been just crazy to turn that down.
                  • t agee February 23, 2012 at 1:51 pm

                    Wouldn’t Carlos have been a plan B free agent last year? Why was that possibility written out of the contract? That wouldn’t have affected his market value whatsoever since the signing team wouldn’t lose anything. Maybe if we were at least getting a pick somewhere between 31-60 we might have kept him.

                    Also why is there a buyout on a vesting option? The clun isn’t reserving the right to pick up that option, it’s completely up to the player whether he attains it or not. If he doesn’t why should the club have to pay anything?

                    I guess it’s just a little extra guaranteed cash in the whole scheme of things but still doesn’t make any sense and almost guarantees that a player might be dealt in his walk season before he’s even played a game.
          • t agee February 23, 2012 at 11:54 am

            Point acknowledged Joey,

            But you really have to factor in the additional 14 M K-Rod would have taken from this years payroll, then factor in that we wouldn’t be able to offer him arbitration on top of that 14 M or he might wind up with 17-20 if he had a good year and there’s no chance he would be around when this team has a 2nd basemen playing 2B or a RFer in RF or league average production in LF or even a Major League capable catcher or an ace.

            I’m not of the belief that Beltran would have even considered resigning here even if the money was available. The Organization went out of their way to embarrass him over the Walter Reed situation, the surgery their own medical staff botched and the fact that they signed him in the first place. The fans weren’t even very appreciative of his tremendous play here.

            Last year at this time nobody had any idea what to expect from Carlos and he’s almost as much of an injury risk right now as we was then. Same with K-Rod. No one knew when or if he was going to blow up and he’s not a lock down closer anymore anyway. His velocity is down, he walks a lot of guys and even when he’s successful, which he is for the most part, he’s still a high wire act and at 30 years of age he’s got a ton of millage on that arm and while Francisco is older he’s got less than half the innings so to me it’s 50/50 who has the better year in 2012 and K-Rod may have been a leader in the bullpen but I wouldn’t say his leadership overall was all that much to be concerned with.

            We’ll see.
            • t agee February 23, 2012 at 2:08 pm

              One of the things I respect about Minaya was he didn’t kill us with bad deadline deals (like Mcelroy and Taylor) among the players we were linked to were Manny and Soriano in 2005 and Peavey in 2009. No doubt those guys get extended if they come over and now we’re really hosed both in salary, bad performance and the loss of whoever we would have had to ship out.

              Maybe Manny makes a difference in 2006, 2007 and 2008 and the draft pick we give up for Alou becomes Mike Stanton or Jordan Zimmerman or maybe he starts angling for a new deal right away, kills us in LF or gets busted a week after the trade, who knows.

              Deadline deals favor sellers 10-1.
              • Alex68 February 23, 2012 at 2:20 pm

                LOL, agee, at what point whether it’s good or bad you will stop second guessing what happened in previous years about the draft and the mets??? seriously, we lost the draft pick from alou to the giants right???? who did they get with that pick????
                i mean, we got IKE DAVIS FROM THE BRAVES for picking up TOM GLAVINE!!!!!!!!!!
                you know who the GIANTS got when we got moises alou??? wendell fairley, a bum who since 2008 has hit a putry 263 BA with only 8 hr’s… i mean, please SHUT UP about the pick we gave up for alou!!!!!!
                i mean, we got ike davis, havens and brad holt in the first round of the 2008 draft and supplemental draft, 1 out of 3 ain’t bad if the other 2 don’t pan out, please stop this second guessing crap about draft picks and how we lost them, and we could’ve gotten zimmerman and yada yada.. stop this seriously… SMH!!!
                • t agee February 23, 2012 at 2:32 pm

                  LOL Alex.

                  I’ll stop it when we have a real rotation and a starting eight that doesn’t have 4 first basemen in it.
                • Alex68 February 23, 2012 at 2:38 pm

                  Agee i get it, your frustrated about the team inability to find studs from the farm and often you try to emulate this team with what other teams do, but there’s so much into it it’s not even funny, i mean, first they gotta be good, dedicated to the game, then used to playing differently, the injuries and how they’re handle, it’s not all the GM’s fault if a player once drafted doesn’t follow trough on his passion for the game you know.. i wish we have EVERYONE be a stud, but that’s just not the case, also remember, the expectations, media, etc it’s not the same in atlanta as it is in NY.. throughout my years and years following this team, we’ve had many kids who were touted as “can’t miss” “5 tool player” “stud” ace of the future” etc and they NEVER work out.. you can pin point here and there, but remember, a lot less is ask about a tommy hanson than a mike pelfrey JUST for being in NY.. i am not defending nor comparing pelfrey with hanson, just stating a FACT..
                  • t agee February 23, 2012 at 3:34 pm

                    I hear you Alex but other teams get these guys and develop them into All Stars who kick our a**es for 10 years or more. I never complain about the Posey’s, Strausberg’s, Harper’s, Lincecum’s, Bumgarner’s, Ryan Zimmerman’s or Longoria’s.

                    Those guys were taken top 10. We shouldn’t be drafting in the top 10.

                    I also don’t complain about the Pujols or the Desmond Jennings taken in the 9th or 10th cause everyone whiffed on them.

                    What I do complain about is the late 1st rounder or 2nd rounder we keep giving up for a year of Alou or worse, four years of Bay.

                    You could fill a whole All-Star team from guys drafted in the 2nd round any one of whom we could have easily gotten ourselves.

                    Late 1st round and supplemental – 2002-2007 Guthrie, Cain, Billingsley, Adam Jones, Phil Hughes, Houston Street, Gio Gonzalez, Ellsbury, Garza, Buckholtz, Lawrie, Ian Kennedy, Daniel Bard, Joba Chris Perez, Travis d’Anaurd, Brett Cecil, Corey Luebeck, Tommy Hunter, JP Arrinceiba,

                    2nd round 2002-2007 – Votto, Lester, Broxton, Crain, McCann, Chris Snyder, Gorzalany, Sweeney, Either, Scott Baker, Gallardo, Pence, Pedroia, Suzuki, Headley, Escobar, Hundley, Brett Anderson, Cahill, Masterson, Jay, Mike Stanton, Jordan Zimmerman.

                    3rd round – 2002-2007 – Granderson, Markum, Stubbs, Harrison, Lind, Happ, Gardiner.

                    Hey maybe not all All Stars some of them but a hell of a lot better than Jacobs, GMJ, and Cattalonotto on your bench and plenty of these guys are players people want to pick up now, while their on the downswing. Why not get ‘em before their trending downhill for a change.

                    These guys aren’t busts. Not all of them are superstars either but they all have their best years with the team that drafts them, not the team that signs them as a free agent at age 30-35. Even the average starter will put up the same numbers as the aging retread and maybe even leave a draft pick or two behind when he leaves which is better than nothing.

                    Even the guys that eventually don’t make it are valuable when their in the minors to make trades. Try trading Jason Bay, Oliver Perez, Scott Schowenweiss, Luis Castillo or really anyone we’ve signed to a big long term contract.

                    The fact is there are very good players to be had, and to have for a long long time that will give you their best years, not their most expensive and in most cases their worst ones.

                    To accept the fact that we cannot develop our own players is to accept that the Franchise is difficient in some way and can’t do things that other teams do routinely, Big, middle or small market doesn’t matter. Nobody else is totally dependent on the free agent market to produce ALL the top talent on the team.

                    The players are out there, we just get them when their on the way down. That’s how you wind up with 12 losing seasons over a 21 year period even with the largest payroll in the entire league.
      • t agee February 23, 2012 at 12:37 pm

        It is a little hard to believe the Mets didn’t pick up the tab, probably didn’t even know about it even though Niese’s conditioning was always a concern in the minors.

        Hard to believe.

        While Carlos certainly was a classy professional presence in the Met clubhouse it would really be a stretch to say that most imports that we’ve brought in through the years have been team oriented. Coleman, Saberhagan, Bonilla, Henderson, Alomar, Vaughn, Cone have had a negative impact if anything and Delgado according to numerous accounts was actually involved in undermining the manager in the clubhouse and just which veterans were out front dealing with the Media during the September swoon of 2007? None. The guy in his 3rd full season was.

        One of the big problems with this team is that we never develop our own leaders. We always need to import them because there is no Met culture. There’s just a culture of bringing in a bunch of different guys to do the heavy lifting year after year and being that half of them do nothing and being on guaranteed deals means the Mets can’t do anything about it. It just breeds a tolerance of mediocrity. That’s what a lot of our kids have seen through the years. That as well as an actual dislike of certain younger players.

        Zeile didn’t like Timo because he sat on the couch in his underwear. Leiter didn’t like Kazmir because of his music and Jeffries was flat out hazed by everyone from Keith Hernandez down to Cone. What kind of leadership is that?

        Was Sheffield a leader or just passing through? Be careful of the leaders you bring in here.

        By this time Reyes and Wright should have been the leaders of a new culture of Mets that Pedro and Beltran assisted them through and other top talents came up through the system and added to from which any acquired veterans would have to fit into, not the other way around.

        Here there’s never really ever been anything to fit into and the Veterans are just passing through for a few years before being put out to pasture and half the time their putting up replacement player production to begin with.
  • darth minaya February 23, 2012 at 11:00 am

    Hopefully this will vault Niese out of the “ugliest current MLB player” category. Pics?
    • Donal February 23, 2012 at 11:08 am

      Hey, they’re not selling blue jeans.
• darth minaya February 23, 2012 at 10:59 am

  Andres Torres is a career minor leaguer who had a semi-good year for the Giants two years ago. He is what he is…a stopgap centerfielder until the Mets can develop a better one.

  Nobody is pumping him up beyond that. He *should* probably bat leadoff this year because the Mets lineup is pathetic, and if Murphy is going to play every day, he should be hitting somewhere near the middle of the order, and for the simple reason that Murphy is pretty dumb and if you bat him leadoff, he will try to do something stupid like trying to steal a base and will get hurt taking his lead.

  Ruben Tejada stinks, IMO. He may be good defensively, and he hit reasonably well last year, but I think he’s a Mike Bordick caliber bat long-term, and you can’t really build around that. If you’re going to hit .270 with zero power and speed, you better damn well field like Omar Vizquel or something, and at least Vizquel could run a little.
  • Donal February 23, 2012 at 11:07 am

    “and if Murphy is going to play every day, he should be hitting somewhere near the middle of the order, and for the simple reason that Murphy is pretty dumb and if you bat him leadoff, he will try to do something stupid like trying to steal a base and will get hurt taking his lead.”

    He’s got 18 career attempts. And I’m pretty sure it has been made clear to him that his job is not to steal bases, no matter where he bats.

    He’s a disciplined hitter and doubles machine. It would be very valuable to have your leadoff hitter star tmany games on second base.
    • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 11:34 am

      How many games do you think he would START with a double? Seriously? If he hits 40 doubles how many would be to lead off? If you went by percentages, 20% tops. Thus you are starting what 8 games with a double?
      • Donal February 23, 2012 at 11:45 am

        I dunno. Not many I suppose. But, he has a good OBP and the leadoff hitter gets the most PAs over the course of the season.
        • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 12:07 pm

          True but his OBP is not the only thing you would look at for a lead-off hitter? If so wouldn’t you always have your highest OBP guy batting lead-off? It’s more about what the rest of his skills show as well. If he is a doubles machine then put him in position for those doubles to drive in runs. Honestly a doubles machine would benefit most teams the most in the 2nd spot as they could drive in a lead-off hitter if they are on but also with one out still get in scoring position.
          • Donal February 23, 2012 at 12:17 pm

            Well, the sabermetric idea would be to put your best all around hitter leading off. That would most likely be Ike, given his balance of OBP and power.

            A lot has to do with the rest of the line up. I don’t think there is a shortage of power there. We’ve got 2 guys with 30 HR seasons under their belts and 2 young guys who have shown the potential to do so. Murphy isn’t in either of those categories.

            Honestly, line up optimization isn’t that big a deal. Billy Martin would win games after picking line ups out of a hat.
            • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 12:23 pm

              That is where Sabermetrics should take a hike as far as I am concerned. You can’t manage baseball solely with a computer. I like using stats for comparisons and predictors but to fill out my lineup? Nah.

              I just see Murphy as being a 2-6 guy not a lead off hitter. In fact to me Wright would be a better choice to lead off in a vacuum but then you have 3 LH hitters in a row…
              • Donal February 23, 2012 at 12:31 pm

                I think this is where advanced metrics (or any new way of looking at things) is most valuable. You have to challenge your assumptions. “That is the way we always did it” is a lousy reason to do anything.

                One of the reasons you compare stats within a team is to see where a player best fits.

                And also, to use your logic, it avoids stacking up your lefties. Otherwise, you put Bay in the 5 spot ahead of Duda.

                Murphy
                Tejada\Torres\Thole
                Ike
                Wright
                Duda
                Bay
                Torres\Thole\Tejada
                Thole\Torres\Tejada
                Pitcher

                But, like I said, line up optimization doesn’t mean much over the course of the season. Maybe 1 or 2 wins. and if this team ends up 1 game out of the playoffs at the end of the season, most people would be pleasantly surprised.
                • t agee February 23, 2012 at 12:54 pm

                  I like speed at the bottom of the order, not in front of the big boppers.

                  Maybe not right away in order to ease Tejada in but eventually I’d like to see:

                  Tejada
                  Murphy
                  Wright
                  Davis
                  Bay
                  Duda
                  Thole/Nickeas
                  Torres

                  That’s the line up opposing managers would have the most difficult time matching relievers to hitters later in the game and gives us good AB’s and tough outs at 1 and 2 but Ike’s got to hit LHP and Bay’s got to do something and Torres must get it started over again from the bottom.
                  • stick February 23, 2012 at 12:57 pm

                    I understand breaking up the lefties, but no way can I support batting Bay in front of Duda!
                • trs86 February 23, 2012 at 1:01 pm

                  Sorry, will just have to agree to disagree. Unless that metric factors in the ENTIRE group and their individual skills then to me you can’t use it to determine lineup. There are guys who are going to be better at “leading off” and guys who are better at “driving in” so you can’t just go by OBP.
                • t agee February 23, 2012 at 1:36 pm

                  Understand completely Stick but it’s absolutely vital that Ike proves he can hit LHP, other wise you have to have a guy that can behind him and with Duda looking good against LHP that doesn’t leave many good options.

                  Bring in the lefty for Davis, walk Bay and you got a guy in Duda that can hit ‘em or bring in the lefty and he’s one and done or what is most likely you walk Davis and pitch to Bay but you still have a guy who can hit either handed pitching up after, and is an extra base hit threat.

                  Now maybe Duda doesn’t show that he can hit LHP but you can still counter with Hairston and improve the D at the same time but hitting LHP is still a question for Ike. 2010 he got a few past the shift and hit 3 out but he wasn’t looking very good against LHP in 2011 when he went down.

                  If he does start handling it then I’d move Duda up and Bay back.
• Mr North Jersey February 23, 2012 at 5:01 pm

  Off Topic: Got a chuckle on the tweets about the chopper landing on the field to take Mets execs apparently to tonight’s Heat game. Maybe there is some truth about traffic in the Miami area.

  Here is a pic courtesy of Lennon.
  http://twitter.com/#!/DPLennon/status/172800881090248705/photo/1
• Mr North Jersey February 23, 2012 at 5:09 pm

  Braun won his appeal.

  http://twitter.com/#!/Haudricourt/status/172804608597557249
  • Met Maniac February 23, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    Not according to this:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/national-league-mvp-ryan-brauns-50-game-suspension-upheld-by-arbitrator/2012/02/23/gIQAHOILWR_story.html
• Met Maniac February 23, 2012 at 5:18 pm

  Well that smells fishy.
• Met Maniac February 23, 2012 at 5:30 pm

  Looks like Associated Press had it wrong. So MLB is pissed he got off, they should tell us the name of substance.
• Des February 23, 2012 at 6:22 pm

  Braun wins his appeal or Braun’s appeal is denied. Who knows? When the Associated Press and the mainstream media write a story, the facts are often elusive. Stay tuned.
  • Mr North Jersey February 23, 2012 at 6:25 pm

    Joe D I hope you don’t mind me plugging my post. This is what I have seen reported so far Des.

    http://realdirtymets.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-1st-mlb-player-to-have-positive-drug-test-overturned/
    • Joe D February 23, 2012 at 6:46 pm

      Mr. North Jersey – You’ve been here long enough to know that as a fan site I always encourage link sharing. And your particular links are always most welcome.

      So who’s ready to see the new and improved MMO Chat Room make it’s Grand Debut on March 5th in time for the first SNY Mets telecast? (Come on, you know you missed it!)
      • Mr North Jersey February 23, 2012 at 6:49 pm

        Thx Joe D.
      • Joey D. February 23, 2012 at 8:09 pm

        Mr. North Jersey,

        Read your link and it does seem my earlier thoughts just posted might be true – Bruan won the case not on fact but on innuendo regarding the urine sample not being immediately sent FedEx but staying in someone’s home for two days first. Shades of Johnny Cochran, Alan Dershowitz and O.J. Simpson with MLB not doing it’s homework just like the L.A. District Attorney’s office.

        Marybe the arbitrator was told some things about testing that we don’t know – I would like to know more about the reasons behind his decisions.
        • Mr North Jersey February 23, 2012 at 8:18 pm

          Thx for reading. It will be interesting if the arbitrators will be allowed to have anything to say on this. I would bet the media is hounding them as I type this looking for more info.
          • Joey D. February 23, 2012 at 10:16 pm

            Mr. NJ,

            Am counting on you to get the low down for us.

            Thanx,
            Joe
• Joey D. February 23, 2012 at 7:59 pm

  Have to give Braun the benefit of the doubt, however, placing one’s defense entirely on a flawed testing process rather than evidence showing the accused’s innocence reminds of the Simpson case and I can’t help but be second guessing the decision in this case for, unless I’m missing something. I didn’t read of an explanation as to what went wrong with the testing to incorrectly indicate such a high level of testosterone in his blood and thus summarized the defense to be more innuendo than fact.

  There’s been so much cheating in the game and dishonesty in the court of law by the twisting of facts that, I guess, it’s affected me to the point that my first instinct is to be a pessimist. Hope I am wrong and that it’s just not understanding the points made by the defense regarding the testing procedure. It’s really unfair to Bruan – he is always going to have his horde of very vocal doubters thanks to the actions of others besides us ones who stay silent except for among friends in MMO.