18
2012
Alderson: Decision To Trade Wright Won’t Be Based On Mets Record
An article by Hojo's Mojo
MetsBlog posted this recap of Sandy Alderson’s comments to reporters this morning at Digital Domain Park.
- His decision to trade or keep David Wright this summer will not directly be tied to their record at that time – his 2013 option is a factor in his situation.
- If the team is contending towards the trade deadline, he envisions an ability to expand the payroll to augment the roster.
- The farm system has improved, and there are players in the system who are close to making an impact at the big league level.
- It isn’t likely either Zack Wheeler, Jeurys Familia or Matt Harvey will be on the big league roster early in 2012.
It’s interesting that he did not deny Wright could be traded, but instead told reporters what factors he would consider most.
“I think that his future is independent of club performance,” Alderson said. “There are certain decisions that one takes that are a function of where a team is at a particular time and so forth. But if there’s anybody on the team whose performance and future is independent of the club’s performance, I think it’s David’s. I think it was presumed going into the [2011] season that depending on what we did and how well Carlos performed and given the fact he was in the last year of his contract that he might be traded at the deadline. David’s case is little bit different. No. 1, there isn’t that presumption. No. 2, he has an option for next year. So I think his situation is somewhat different.”
Wright is earning $15M this season and has a team option worth $16M for 2013 that he can decline if traded.
Alderson also said the same thing last year about spending if Mets were contending – of course the exact opposite happened.
The last point makes sense. No need to rush any of the kids and why start their arbitration clocks before they are fully developed anyway?
About the Author: Rob Johnson
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My issue has always been his definition of contending!
Does it mean he has the division, the Wildcard or just less than 7.5 games away from it?
And while he says the record isn’t a factor I have a hard time buying what he says!
Basically that says to me he could go either way!
He could trade Wright if the record is bad but doesn’t have to
He could trade Wright even if the record is good but gets an offer he likes!
Seems to me that statement is nothing more than the fudge factor so he can do whatever he wants no matter what the state of the team is at the time!
And that’s what he should do. Keep all of his options open because you never know what he could be offered. What if A-Rod, Youkalis, or Trumbo go down.
The new CBA does hurt the potential return if he’s not dealt in ST though and unless Alderson got blown away next off season would be the time after picking up his option.
considering what he has gotten in return for Beltran, K-Rod and now Reyes I expect he gets a whole lot of nothing no matter when he trades Wright!
Three All Stars and the total prospects returned is ONE!
Unless Sandy gets very lucky in the supplemental and 2nd round!
I mean he got more for Pagan than he got for K-Rod!
That makes very little sense!
He got payroll flexibility with KROD. 99.9% of the baseball universe agrees his option was horrible no matter what the Mets finances were. SNY kept a magic number on his appearances for Gods sake. Seeing the club only spent 15m, and KROD’s option was at 17m, that means they wouldn’t of been able to do anything else.
K-Rod himself told Puma the Mets had to trade him and get out from the option. Even K-Rod thought it was a necessary move.
And now he is so valuable and productive, he is now a setup man to John Axford. The guy is past his prime. He could be a closer for other mid-level teams, but he was not worth the money so he took Arb to stay as a setup man.
Careful now gary!
The Pagan trade that was so good to you was for a Setup man!
Are you trying to say that having an everyday CF that hits .231 compared to Pagan’s .270 was not worth doing just to get someone as UNVALUABLE as a Setup man?
Should I go back and start quoting what you said a week ago like you went and quoted what I said 12 months ago before I knew Sandy was going to make the team WORSE not better?
Why is it always about stats with you? You don’t even care that Torres is a great defensive CF.
Why? Because it was ALWAYS about stats with you until using them was no longer working for your agenda!
You were the poster boy of Sabers and DEEP STATISTICAL ANALYSIS before and even early in Sandy’s tenure!
Then he started making moves and we have not heard a PEEP about DEEP STATISTICAL ANALYSIS, OBP nor any other metric in evaluating the moves we have made!
It’s all been BEANCOUNTER, ACCOUNTANT SPEAK to make what Sandy is doing seem correct!
Like you care more about the MONEY than the baseball all of a sudden!
You keep saying we are getting payroll flexibility and will be able to buy good FAs you DO consider worth the money
So where are they? And on what DEEP STATISTICAL ANALYSIS basis were they worth what we paid them?
Please go and quote me on the Pagan trade because you obviously never read what I said. Quote it here and then tell me you were wrong again.
Metsie, still waiting for you to quote my view of the Pagan trade.
Keep holding your breath it is coming soon!
I don’t take orders from kids!
there were a lot of closers on the market this year but there are tons of good possible FA’s next year too. I can’t see K-Rod being anywhere near the most desirable guy out there next off season either.
In any event we couldn’t afford 17 M for a closer this year and we certainly wouldn’t have been able to offer arb to a guy making 17 M so unlike Wagner we had a zero chance of getting draft choices for K-Rod.
Most likely Milwaukee is out of it like we were last year and trades him somewhere else and they’ll be able to do so without the threat of a 17 M dollar option him which means they could talk to anyone who is in it.
Just better hope he stays healthy and happy in the meantime.
Where is that Payroll Flexibility now?
You got SQUAT for K-Rod!
Yes they had to trade him…they didn’t have to GIVE him away!
Thats what they did!
And STILL depite what you think they got for trading him there is NO payroll flexibility is there?
So what did we gain? 17.5 Mil? Did we use it? Did it allow us to keep Reyes?
What did saving that money get us again towards competing?
Where is that flexibility now? Have you not seen the new walls at Citi, the new scoreboard at Digital Domain, count ‘em 5 Bobblehead Days in 2012!
LOL yes Bobbleheads can be very expensive, especially if you don’t buy them in China! LOL
The $17.5 went to the debt. Haven’t you noticed that every decision has been made based on how it affects the debt?
They haven’t paid any of their debts havent you been keeping up with current events?
The still owe everyone money and the only money they plan on using to pay debt was the proceeds from the sales they made for piddling portions of the team and Mr Met at your beck and call?
You said it would get us payroll flexibility!
Are we flexible there?
If not then the trade did not net you PAYROLL FLEXIBILITY now did it?
Of course they paid it off. Where’s that $70 mil in losses? Gone now, thanks in part to saving K-Rod’s option.
No they didn’t they borrowed money from BoA to pay off the bills and still owe BoA on that loan that will be paid off as soon as the check from the sold shares clear!
They cut 55Mil from a season that had 70 Mil of losses so your still 15-20 Mil short on being profitable…Hmm I wonder where they will find that FLEXIBILITY? Hey How much does Wright get paid again?
And now that I got you on this DEBT kick I though the trade for K-Rod was getting us Payroll Flexibility not debt relief?
Which is it make up your mind!
$50 in payroll, $20 in the St. Lucie cuts and the personnel cuts. This is old news. The birdge loan was due to the Einhorn deal falling apart and getting investors was taking longer than anticipated.
But you said the K-Rod saving PAID all that now you say it was cuts in StLucie and 50 in payroll and blah blah blah….
WHERE IS THIS PAYROLL FLEXIBILITY?
What part of the 17.5 Mil went to paying this phantom debt payment you think they made?
And if you must know NOT paying 50 mil in salary from the year previous is not exactly SAVING you money!
Saving you from SPENDING but NONE of that money is real and can actually be used to pay any bills!
It’s not like because we didn’t SPEND 50 Mil we got a check for 50 Mil to give to the debt holders!
Nice try at spin though!
Getting out of K-Rod’s option was part of that $50 in payroll that was slashed and used to re-coup the $70 mil in losses.
Can someone else please confirm that I have to actually explain this? It’s not me, is it?
You seem to forget that the einhorn deal was going to PAY the debt of that 70 Mil! With 130 Mil left over for paying other debts!
Since it didn’t happen the BoA loan was used instead and when the sale is complete of those shares they have said it will pay both the MLB loan and the BoA loan off…
No payments have been lade to date EXCEPT last year Revenue sharing check that they had to pay or they could not extend the load they already had from the MLB!
“Earlier this year, the team’s owners appeared to have a plan to address their financial problems: selling a roughly $200 million stake in the team to the hedge fund tycoon David Einhorn. But after months of negotiations, the owners called off the deal in September, in part because they did not want to give Einhorn a path to becoming the team’s majority owner.”
“The recent $40 million loan suggests that the effort to sell minority shares in the team was not generating the cash that the owners needed in the near term.”
NY Times article. Sorry, I don’t make things up. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/13/sports/baseball/mets-struggling-for-cash-receive-40-million-bank-loan.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1329598908-TNULSU9dc/XuMLdSmUvfNw
And none of that 50 mil has paid a single bill has it?
At best you can say the deal stopped us from having to take out another loan!
AT BEST!
But you think they have paid off debt I would like to see evidence of this assertion!
The $50 mil helped recoup losses. It’s easy and plain to see. It hurts your argument so you can’t be bothered with facts. I’m used to you.
I’m close to paying off a 60-month car loan, and this is my 19th month. My monthly payments did not pay off my car, but they helped lower it, right? Do you understand business? Were my monthly payments worthless or useless because one of those payments didn’t pay off the ENTIRE debt?
I read that article three times…NO WHERE in there did it say they paid off any debt to date!
But you said we did!
And that makes it a fact to you not what REALLY happened!
In Future if you wish to provide proof try providing a link that actually supports something you said and not what I said because it doesn’t make you look good!
Basically thast article backed up what I said!
Einhorn fell through, They took a loan until they could sell the smaller pieces to pay the bills and make the one payment they did make last years revenue sharing payment.
Nowhere did it say they PAID a loan, No where did it claim that the money they saved on payroll was used on any debt!
Basically that link pretty much proved what I said and held no argumentative value for what you tried to claim with shedding K_Rod helped pay a debt, becasuse there was no debt payments made in that article!
I get it now. You’re twisting words again. So if the Mets didn’t pay off every single cent they owe, all $400 mil or so of it in one fell swoop after cutting $50 mil in salary, then cutting the salary was useless. I get it.
No I’m not twisting a thing but you sure as hell are trying like the dickens!
YOU SAID THIS!!!!! “The $17.5 went to the debt”
Did it? Did we GET 17.5 Mil for trading K-Rod?
Did we pay off any debts at all? NO!
Your article posted proves that point!
Did the 17.5 mil pay anything? NO! Because we didn’t MAKE 17.5 mil we merely didn’t RESPEND 17.5 MIL!
I’m not twisting my friend you are!
You said it plain and simple and now that you got caught bullshitting you are trying to make it out like you didn’t say what got you in trouble and started this whole chain!
Even tried the old your childish act you do so well when your back is to the wall!!
Next play in the Xtreem got caught playbook ignore the thread….Just WATCH folks!
If you can’t see it, I can’t make you. What exactly do you think they did with the $50 mil off payroll and the $20ish of St. Lucie and other personnel? Go out to dinner?
No you apparently DON’T get it!
The Mets have not PAID a SINGLE DEBT!
It’s all still there!
They paid a BILL that was due and not a penny of what they saved on K-Rod for 2012 went towards that because LACK OF DEBT can not PAY OFF EXISTING DEBT!
But thats what you tried to say now wasn’t it?
Ok lets try this one last time!
You have 70 Mil in debt! -70 Mil in the bank!
You decide not to pay someone 17.5 million next season! Still – 70 Mil in bank all you did was avoid -87.5 Mil in the bank!
How much money do you have to pay off debt?
Unless someone PAID the Mets 17.5 Million for k-Rod there is no way the k-Rod deal paid ANY debt. At best avoided more but it sure didn’t pay a single bill!
Because SAVING 17.5 mil is not HAVING 17.5 mil!
Oh. Now I get it. A debt and a “bill that was due” are not the same thing. One means you owe monty money and the other means you owe money. Obviously not the same.
I get what you’re saying about lack of existing debt and all that, but you’re failing to understand or realize that debt was incurred operating as a $140+ team. They were $70 in the hole because they didn’t make enough to offset their expenses. So, they cut their expenses. No more debt incurred (in that particular case).
Dude do the simple math PLEASE!! I know your capable if you can calculate WAR!
They lost 70 Mil on a 140 Mil Payroll!
They cut 50 Mil off payroll!
How much of that 50 Mil was available to PAY something so far? NOTHING it’s not money EARNED it is merely money NOT SPENT!
You talking like they got a 50 Mil infusion of cash! No such thing happened!
Now lets just assume for arguments sake that they make the same revenue only have 50 mil saved on payroll,
How much EXTRA money do they have to pay debt? 50 Mil? or -20Mil?
Can you pay a debt with a debt?
SO K-Rod didn’t save you money he merely didn’t COST you money, He didn’t reduce the CURRENT debt he merely wasn’t part of a FUTURE debt!
The BILL I spoke of was the MLB cut of their take at the Boxoffice!
I believe it was for 25 Mil! That 25 mil may be PART of that 70 Mil number of losses or even ON TOP of that number! I don’t know but it doesn’t matter for the purposes of this discussion. What matter is they took a loan to PAY it because they were at -70 in the bank at the time and they had not sold off the shares they didn’t sell when they cancled the einhorn deal!
It sure didn’t pay a DEBT it was part of those operating expenses that made the LOSS number! That payment CREATED a debt not solved one!
So in conclusion none of K-Rod money was kept or used all that happened is it wasn’t added to this year’s bills!
Did that cut make us profitable?
Well take 50 Mil away from 70 Mil assuming we draw the same number of people as last year and how much is left to pay those debts?
-20Mil!
On top of all the other debt they haven’t paid yet!
Financial flexibilioty?
Ability to spend to make the team better?
Debts being paid?
K-Rod’s money wasn’t gained and since it was not GAINED it was not paying ANY debt!
All cutting him did was remove his part in any future debt unless of course attendance drops because of that trade and what we think we saved cosyt us in revenue!
This is quite the possibility and why I rail against loosing three All Stars in a single year because what your saving isn’t really IN the bank it’s only in the future debt possibilites which are going to get worse anyway because less people go to see them play!
If Sandy had taken the SLOW approach, Resigned reyes to an extention that first year, Then traded Beltran and K-Rod, there was a chance to maintain attendance so that all the money from Beltran, KRod Perez and Castillo might actually be enough to balance the books with near similar season ticket sales and one decent winning streak that could maintain or surpass last years attendance!
He hacked like a guide in the Amazon not caring what affect it had on revenue and that is my problem with what Sandy has done!
That and the fact for three lost All Stars we got ONE prospect for it!
ONE!
And you guys say he is fixing things?
All I see him fixing is our funeral!
Pagan didn’t have a $17.5 million vesting option. The Rodriguez trade was a pure salary dump. Anything we get out of the 2 players we got in return is a bonus.
see: AJ Burnett
See Jeff Francouer, Billy Wagner, Kaz Matsui, Todd Zeile, Roberto Alomar, Robin Ventura, Kevin Appier, Jeremy Burnitz……….
Well sure, if you want to be thorough…….
Yep all the payroll flexibility gained? Where is it all today pray tell?
Thats right a PUR SALARY DUMP Thats what we have been saying!!!!
And what did we do with that Salary we saved? NOTHING!
So we got NOTHING for K-Rod! Even the two guys we got in trade are missing from the 40 man roster!
Not one is on the BA top 100 List!
We got nada zilch zero for K-Rod!
We didn’t even get 17.5 mil to spend if we did we could have re-signed Reyes!
We didn’t make ANY Payroll flexibility because we STILL have none!
Very little sense if your not taking the financial end of things into consideration. At one time that was never an issue for us, now it is.
One could have said the same about the Piazza, Leiter and Delgado deals.
But it has been said time and again around here that it doesn’t require spending a lot of money to get good baseball!
So why are we making decisions based only on money regardless of the baseball rammifications?
I don’t think ANYONE here cares what the end payroll number is!
What we care about is that currently in order to get to whatever number it is going to fall too the Baseball part of the acquisitions are being sacrificed!
Want to trade an All Star? Go for it but you had better gets as much baseball as you lose in compensation!
Look at where people are with Wright at this moment.
Most people (and I think you are one of them but god forbid I SUMMARIZE your thoughts here) think it’s fine to trade Wright if we get a good package of kids for him!
If we get only one guy like we did with Beltran is that the deal we should be making?
Remember Wright will be just as much a 6 month rental as Beltran was only with compensation!
The problem isn’t trading K-Rod and savine 17.5 mil the problem is we didn’t SAVE a damn thing, it didn’t allow us to spend 17.5 mil, didn’t relieve any of the debt we already had and all we got were two kids who aren’t even on the roster and have NEVER appeared on anyone’s TOP PROSPECT list!
And thats why I said what I said early in Sandy’s tenure because I was fine with trading our TOP players in the name of getting a nice package of kids who could fill out the roster and MiLs.
WE DID NOT GET THAT!
We made that deal purely for MONEY not BASEBALL!
We didn’t save ANY money on Beltran and got Wheeler and thats really the only deal you can say was semi decent despite the fact all we did was trade a known all star for a future maybe and if he fails you got NOTHING!
I don’t care how PROMISING Wheeler is you trade an All Star you should get at least two (if not three) kids ESPECIALLY considering we paid his entire salary!
It’s like trading a winning lottery ticket straight up for another one that your not sure is going to pay off! At least with the extra kid you got TWO chances of that deal being a good one not just one on the hope he doesn’t blow out his arm or worse never becomes what everyone ASSUMES he will be because he made some top 100 List like F-Mart did!
Yes Money is tight but the MONEY is competely tied to WINNING BASEBALL if you believe the folks who think attendance hasn’t gone down drastically since K-Rod Beltran and Reyes left!
So saving money at the expense of Baseball is foolhearty and just as bad as spending money (at least as bad as you think it is) in the name of winning because at least that money spent brings some people out to see the guy!
and it is this point all those who think things are hunky dory are totally ignoring!
Yeah Beltran was a good deal….ONLY if Wheeler is what you think he is!
Yeah K-Rod was going to get paid a lot but you just spent 10-15 million dollars on guys who can’t make up for what he was going to give you and what you got isnt’t even PART of that solution!
Yeah Reyes wanted crawford money but he didn’t get it and he is a mil cheaper for the next two years which is just about the point where everyone who LOVES the moves thinks we are going to be done rebuilding and competitive! Why wouldn’t we be able to afford his 4 Mil raise then?
None of the moves have made us better in fact even those who like what has happened say the Roster leaves a bit to be desired!
Why is that?
Is it because we have done such a great job rebuilding the team or because we IGNORED the rebuild in order to get Wilpon’s financial situation more comfortable for him?
And where is all this you can build a winner cheaply I keep hearing about?
So far we have a guy with 68 ABs and one guy who cost an allstar to hang all our future hats on!
If we were REALLY only two young players away why didn’t we just get them for one of the three allstars we sent away and be competing this year?
Yeah well Metsie we didn’t get anything for K-Rod. He was just another in a long long long line of salary dumps we’ve had going back now over 15 years.
We dumped salary on Coleman, Bonilla, Ventura, Zeile, Appier, Cedeno, Weathers, Vaughn, Alomar, Matsui, and Francouer.
We also failed to offer arb on Alfonzo and Floyd.
We also sold the two draft choices we could have gotten from “losing” Wagner to save 4 M in salary, 1.5 M in buyout and 3M at least in signing bonuses the two draft choices (#20 and #39 as it turns out) would have received. You don’t really believe that Omar traded away those two picks for the want of yet another LH DH/1B do you? Hell if we wanted him that bad he could have just picked him up in the rule 5 draft 4 months later when Boston took him off the 40.
Why the outrage now when this has been standard operating procedure around here for two decades?
And yeah I’m very open to trading Wright. I’m not wishing any bad fortune on anyone but if Youkalis went down I would love to see Wright exchanged for Swihart and Jackie Bradley.
If A-Rod went down how about Wright for Gary Sanchez.
One thing we should be trying to do right now is offering David something to get his option available for anyone to pick up even if it was just to a few limited teams. That would help with the potential return.
if your just trading one name for another name what have you accomplished?
If your not trading you best player for multiple players who combined can surpass the production of what you gave away then what are you accomplishing?
Even if Wheeler is Cy Young is winning contribution once every 5 days better than winning contribution EVERYDAY? Forget Wheeler/Beltran for a moment here just talk about any guy who helps you win on a daily basis compared to a Pitcher who only helps one in 5!
Wheeler for Beltran is fine as a start but there should have been an Everyday player as a kicker to that deal!
You know Torres would have even made sense there, certainly more sense than he did as a kicker to ramirez!
Even some everyday player AAAA player would have been better!
At least you got something else to trade with on top of Wheeler!
It was a trade made from desperation!
Well how has trading names for salary relief worked out in your opinion then?
Look at what you said and tell me it’s a good thing?
In fact it’s hard to find in all of history ANY deal where you traded a big name for prospects that worked out the prospect guy got as good as he gave!
All right! If they have a winning record and are contending they will add to the payroll, any idea how much?
Educated guess, 5M or less.
Also, I don’t see how the point on they did not spend last year when they were in contention applies. 7.5 back with 3-4 teams in front of you is not exactly considered contending by all. As Metsie says I guess it depends on what you consider contending.
I would think that number would be based on far too many factors to guess right now. A lot has to do with the lawsuit. If the case is decided in their favor, or at least leaning heavily that way, there probably wouldn’t be much of a limit, provided the trade makes sense.
i agree. Mucho hinges on the status of the lawsuit. It impacts the size of the Mets wallet to spend on the team, even on the perceived value of the Mets, given the pressure on Wilpon to have to dump the team if the case looks bad for them.
It seems to be looking a lot better for the WIlpons and i think that’s good for the Mets. IF things turn out well: we can invest in the team again; DW is having a very good year; the Mets are actually in the mix, say just a few games off the Wild Card in mid-July, and the Division Race is clogged with all 5 teams ‘in the hunt’ for the Title, then DW is not traded during the Season, and his option takes on new meaning for 2013: he’s worth it, and the team can both afford it and it would make sense to keep him for the 2013 Season.
It won’t really be based on a number but on who might be available AS the buy!
I could see them taking on 20 Mil of salary for a starting pitcher of Ace quality if one is there.
I could see them spending more on a good hitting CF is thats whats available!
What will be key to the move is WHO it is, What are the prospects for keeping him long term (if good prospects are needed to get him and not just a salary transfer) and if what is there is a desperate need of ours despite how well we are doing with that issue!
More likely though any move made will be for marginal talent in trade of marginal kids and the result will amount to nothing but an attempt to look like we were trying!
So candidates would be Upton and Garza?
I don’t agree that the return would be for marginal prospects at all and I would bet anything that we’ll be more than willing to pay Wrights salary in order to maximize the return. That is probably factored in with the payroll accounting for maybe 4 M who knows.
It’s impossible to say what team may need a 3B come July 15- July 30 but whatever is discussed would have to be better than two early round draft choices and would really be a Godsend if we could land a top flight catcher in AA and a 5 tool possibility for the OF or a real live arm for the 2013 – 2014 rotation.
This team already has an overwhelming amount of 1 tool guys like Lutz, Stinson, and Dykstra, We don’t really need or want anymore Chris Carters either and unless it’s a young catcher I can’t even see us looking for guys in the majors right now.
Yeah see the Beltran deal….
How many prospects did you get for him?
Everyone in the MLB knows Sandy needs to cut spending and will make lopsided deals to get there!
They won’t offer a decent package of Kids especially not if you look at Wrights numbers compared to Beltran!
I like Wright think he is a very good player but he is no where near the offensive beast Beltran was!
So at best you will get a good second tier prospect and maybe some other AA or AAA fodder they have given up on being a part of THIER future and thats about it!
We all said the same things about the prospects of trading Beltran and K-Rod, tell me what did we get?
Metsie I recall very clearly when you stated the 3 for 1 and 4 for 1 deals (think Sanatana Piazza, Delgado ect) never really worked out very well for the seller and I agreed with you.
Better to get one A prospect rather than 3 or 4 C’s. I still feel that way why have you changed your thinking on this matter?
There are very practical reasons why anyone and especially us should use a sniper rifle instead of a shotgun right now.
#1.) The one strength our farm system has is depth. The one weakness it has is quality. Once you get past the big 3 (every team has at least 3 save for the White Sox) There are plenty of intriguing prospects but no true safe bets to be real difference makers. Our prospects are overall even more questionable than prospects are in general.
#2) The A prospect retains a higher value even after stagnating and enjoys a super high high value when progressing. Right now if we were to trade any of our non big 3 prospects Havens, Flores and Puello would command much more than Kirk, Den Dekker or Vaughn. hell even Brad Holt could be a useful throw in to seal a deal.
#3.) At some point you have to worry about roster spots on the 40. As you’ve pointed out Pridie and Evans could have been useful to us for at least parts of 2012 but they had to be sacrificed in order to avoid losing some of our slower developing prospects. next year Gorski and Cordero will hopefully be needed to protect so if we did a 3 for 1 type deal with Beltran we’d have two more guys that have to go on further exaserbating the problem.
We need CORNERSTONES, not complimentary types. Minaya did a good job in getting us quantity. That’s the first step in over hauling the minors. What we don’t know yet is whether that quantity is going to become steak, hamburger or refuse and in what area of future needs will contain one or the other.
Hunt the elephant, we already have the rabbits.
Yes better to get one A prospect instead of three or four C’s!
But if all your getting is one A prospect there had better be at least one D or C in addition!
You can’t win by selling a KNOWN good for one maybe! Two Maybe’s I’ll consider it!
Even if they serve no purpose to your future than a kicker to some future deal you need to make at least your getting some value to make up for the KNOWN good your not getting from just the prospect!
So Metsie your opinion on the return we got for Beltran hinges on the inclusion of one C or D prospect?
If we had gotten a Chris Carter type back you would have been satisfied with the return?
That doesn’t make any sense. We lost a decent prospect in the rule 5 draft last year in rhymer Cruz and we would have just lost another one, or the extra one anyway.
I know no one will ever change your mind on this matter but the Wheeler trade was a grandslam for us. You simply don’t get a potential ace quality pitcher at the deadline very often if ever.
Take the Smoltz trade as a comparison. Smoltz was traded for a rental and was a 22nd rounder with 1 full year in the minors. High ERA, low K’s, high BB’s.
Wheeler was the 6th pick of the first round with high K’s, high BB’s and a league average ERA.
I am not ranking Wheeler ahead of Harvey or Familia but there are very good reasons why people who get paid to do that sort of thing are. His stuff.
Wheeler gets 10% more of his strikeouts on swings than Harvey and 8 % more than Familia.
Having swing and miss offerings is one of the best harbingers of future success in the Majors and Wheeler right now, a year younger than Harvey and Familia is measureably better at that than our other two top prospects.
The good fortune of having two offensively challenged teams in the same league, both feeling pressure coming up behind them fighting over Beltran is the only thing that got us such a fantastic return.
The Braves were holding out for Chipper’s return and on the very day he came back he got hurt again, and McCann went down as well. Pure luck. That caused Sabean to give in for fear that the Braves would offer up some of their top pitching. One more Chris Carter type prospect is completely irrelevant to what transpired here.
Beltran could offer help for 2 months. Is that worth a potential ace who could be here for 6-10 years? Well to them it was but in the position we were in it sure as hell wasn’t. Chris Carter being included or not.
First off ANYTHING MORE is better in that trade Yes or No?
Swapping a known for an unknown one on one is clear stupidity!
Second that we lost anyone to rule 5 is whose fault?
If we HAVE so many prospects then why do we need to sell of KNOWN talent for more?
Truth is if there was a logjam then maybe instead of trading GOOD PLAYERS based on just money why not trade 3 or 4 C or D Mils for Wheeler instead?
Open up the room for guys you can’t fit on the roster who you think are good enough to protect and get the UNKNOWN quantity that way?
Funny you complain about Wagner being traded for cash and not getting kids yet isn’t that really just about the same thing when you swap an known for an unknown quantity?
If Wheeler blows out his arm or NEVER produces is that a good deal we made?
Did we get Value?
Doesn’t at least ONE more kid give you a better shot at getting TWO from the unknows making than just one in exchange for what you KNEW was good?
How many teams are between you and the wildcard is hardly a good way to determine your chances!
Different teams have different schedules, Some teams play more road games early, others don’t face tougher competition until later in the season and others yet have injuries that hurt their later schedule!
Your competitive chances should be all about how far away from the the playoffs from a game behind perspective, not how good you think everyone else is!
Those teams were ahead of us only because of that horrible start which Terry Corrected before the month was done! The Cards eventually had a bad streak too falling behind 10.5 games, thats one of the teams that was ahead of us!
So we had a slow start and the Braves were the guys we had to over take until such time as someone overtook them!
If your 20 games out with only two months to go thats one thing!
When your only a week of wins and one 10 game losing streak away from being the Wildcard you can’t look at everyone else and say oh no too many teams.
Because if you beat them while making up those 7.5 games the braves had you basically jump them all!
We had to make up 7.5 games and we had at least that many against all those teams that were ahead of us left to make their lead on us go away while the Braves were imploding!
Not so quick Metsie. It’s ALL about how many teams are in front of you especially when we’ll be playing the NL East in September while the Central’s feasting on Houston and Pittsburgh and the West on San Diego and Colorado.
Much much easier to pass one team than 4 or 5 especially considering the relative strengths of the teams in our Division and the wild Card hunt around the trade deadline is basically every team that hasn’t flat out sucked in the first half. Basically a pile of mediocre teams all playing each other is going to keep everyone theoretically “in it” until long after the deadline has passed.
If you have five teams in front of you and win, you’ll probably gain a game on two or 3 of them. If you lose you’ll lose a game to 2 or 3 of them. If one team has a collapse like Atlanta and Boston did ALL teams get closer so your chances really are worse with more teams in it.
I’d rather be 8 back of just one team with 6 weeks left and 6 games head to head than have to be better than 4 teams I’m anywhere from 3-6 games back of.
Lets not forget on 07/13 when KROD was traded there were 5 teams in front of the Mets for the WC an 2 other teams within one game behind them. You also have the Mets 3 best players on the shelf for a long period of time in Reyes, Wright and Davis. Not hard to see the odds were grim.
Grim they were Salty. and really after so many trades of prospects and handing over of draft choices over the prior 14 years then was time to think beyond just this year for once.
And what has happened to help the “Beyond”?
Wheeler and………….?
Ok there are 5 teams ahead f you right?
But your only 7.5 games out of the Wildcard!
SO you make up those 7.5 games on the Braves…
How many games out from the Wildcard are you now?
More than 7.5 or Less?
4 or 5 teams at 7.5 games total means there is less than two maybe three games and at most 6 games between you and the rest!
Beat them when you meet them in a series and the fact that they were ahead doesn’t matter does it?
You idea only works if the guys ahead of you keep winning and more than you do!
And if you beat them when you play them they can’t do that can they?
Basically you have a pile of 7 teams all within 5 games of each other trailing the current Wild Card leader by 7 games. All those 5 jumbled together have been pretty mediocre overall and each is within a couple of games of .500.
Most teams “in it” have two chances to go to the post season. wild Card and Division. We had half as many. All teams had the chance to improve themselves at the deadline. Some bought (Braves Giants) some sold (Mets, Rockies) some made more lateral type moves (Cardinals) and some took advantage of opportunity (Brewers)
.500 teams all playing themselves tend to win one, lose one until one of them breaks from the pack and emerges as the true competitor for the Wild Card while the rest either stay around .500 or slowly slide downhill. with two chances to make it, sometimes it’s worth going for but with just one chance and a very unrealistic one at that it wasn’t.
Keeping K-Rod would have hurt our chances this year and keeping Beltran would have hurt them for years to come. Trading Familia or Harvey could have sunk our chances for 5 years or more.
Something your forgetting…If they win their division they can’t also be the wildcard!
Sure they had two chances compared to us because those BOUGHT AND PAID FOR division winners the Phillies were too damn tough to catch!
And all those teams you claim were ahead of us in the Wildcard?
Who was #2 in that wildcard just 1.5 wins short?
Atlanta!
A team we had plenty of games against to leap ahead and if not for the trades that left us with a sub .500 record in August and September could have won those extra games to overtake the cardinals as well!
Did the cardinals overtake the Braves because they played much better or because the Braves choked!
Hell Cards didn’t win the WC until the very last day!
Only July 28th (the day of the Beltran trade) we were 6.5 games out with only Atlanta, Arizona, Pittsburg and the Cards in front of us!
We were playing over .500 baseball at that time! Played .385 and .429 Consecutively in Aug and Sept. (.407 Average)
Atlanta .654 (Aug) and .333 (Sept) (average of .493)
Arizona .655 and .640 (.647 and Took their Division not a factor in our Wildcard!)
Pittsburg .267 and .385 (.326)
Cards .536 and .692 (.614 due to that awesome September They won a series against us in our depleted state!)
The other guys who wound up ahead of us?
SF played .379 baseball in August!, .560 in Sept (.468 Average Knocked out of their divison slot 3 games behind Atlanta)
Dodgers .607 and .654 (.630 6.5 games behind Atlanta 13.5 games out on July 28th!)
Washington .444 and .630 (.537 8.5 GB on Atlanta 11.0 GB on July 28th!)
Cincy .500 and .462 (.481 10 games behind Atlanta 9.5 GB on July 28th!)
So really it comes down to OVERTAKING Atlanta and winning the series against the Cards in September and we are the Wildcard!
Sure there were a lot of teams that were better than us and ahead on July 28th!
Arizona and the Cards most notably! One won their division and the other beat the braves record by one game!
We saw how well our team could play when there is something to play for and even when there is not (Remember Collins tirade in September?)
And that all adds up to me that if we had not given up in July we had just as much a shot as anyone else who was ahead of us!
We just GAVE UP!
If we had a nice little collection of prospects for doing so I might not complain so much!
We got Wheeler and thats about it!
Didn’t even get payroll felxibility!
We are STILL shopping Kmart, STILL considering cutting in a trade for the last All star we have which if past return is any indication will get us nothing but another salary dump!
And at bthis point why not because we sure aren’t going to have the same chances we had last year!
And even less attendance to make the savings we think we made evaporate like Alcohol on a hot plate!!
Your first point makes no sense Metsie.
You don’t have to win both the Division and the Wild Card. All you need to do is win one of them.
Almost every team in front of us and those nipping on our heels had two routes to the post season, we only had one.
Secondly your looking at the wrong date. July 10th (the day of the K-Rod deal) was the day 2011 was decided. At that point the situation was this:
St. Louis and Milwaukee were tied for the Division lead, both trailed Atlanta by 5. Pittsburgh was 1 game back of St. Louis and Mil and 6 GB of Atlanta.
SF led the West by 3 over AZ and AZ trailed Atlanta by 5 in the Wild Card.
All 5 of these teams had two shots, Washington a half GB of us and ourselves had one shot.
Hell even Cinncinatti being a full game behind us had a better shot of the post season then we did as they were only 4 GB of their Division lead.
In addition the worst 4 teams in the NL were at that time Dodgers, Padres, Cubs and Astros. Guess who got to play those teams in the 2nd half the most?
The best teams in the NL were the Phillies and Braves. Guess who got to play those teams in the 2nd half the most?
When you take all the information into account on the day the sell off started (July 10th) no sane person could conclude anything other than our chances were less than anyone ahead of us and less even then Cinncinatti behind us as well and while we had just come off playing some truly inspired baseball, that had come on the heels of some really awful baseball and the net effect was we were a whopping one half game over .500 and just to make the postseason we would have to not just climb over 3 teams in front of us but the right 3 teams and do it while playing a tougher schedule and do that without one of our main cogs in Ike Davis.
Never could the decision to be sellers based on the information available have ever been more clear than it was at the ASB 2011 for the NY Mets.
I showed you the numbers Why don’t you look at them?
Arizona was ahead of us and took the division instead ! One team down!
San Fran who was the division leader at the time tanked almost as much as the Braves did!
So did the Pirates!
Half the teams who started ahead of us (Atl and Pitt, save Arizona and the Cards) had tanked in August and Sept! The others who wound up ahead of us were far behind us on July 28th! So all those teams came from FURTHER away than we were to overtake us at the end!
The exception is San Fran who were 3 games behind Atlanta at the end!
So any effort that allowed us to overtake Atlanta would have come down to being TIED with the cards because they only overtook Atlanta by a game!
Guess what that game might have been? The two of three the Cards took from us in September!
We win that series and we are no longer tied with them after taking over Atlanta we are the Wildcard?
The fact that Arizona was ahead of us was moot wasn’t it? They were not in the wildcard picture at all!
The fact the Braves and Pitt were ahead of us really didn’t matter as they BOTH folded!
And all the opther teams who wound up ahead of us in the wildcard when the season was done made up MORE ground that we had to!
They were even FURTHER away than we were on July 28th!
so how many teams (All four) made no friggin difference because one became a division winner and had no affect on OUR playoff chances when all was said and done,
Two Tanked leaving ONLY the Cardinals which as I showed were only one game better than Atlanta and that one game could have been won if we just win the september series!
we were NOT out of anything on July 28th! But once we did everything we could to make sure we DID have NO CHANCE whatsoever!
If we had overtaken Atlanta then we would have overtaken everyone else SAVE the cards (tied) who were part of the Wildcard!
And one series against them, one game puts us in then!
One team down NOT.
Different team YES.
On July 10th the situation was we would have to pass one of SF/AZ. TWO of MIL/ST. L/PITTS AND the Braves. All THREE of these would have to have occurred, not just one or two but ALL THREE. In addition we would have had to hold off Washington (1/2 GB of us) as well as Cinn (1.5 GB of us)
All five of those things had to happen. Not four of them, not 3 of them. All FIVE of them. with a tougher schedule than all but Washington to boot.
Just so you know I’m not willing to engage over being “in it.” and all the ancillary BS about increased attendance and all that other horse****. I’m only talking about the one and only thing that matters. Winning the Wild Card. Not being “in it.”
So on July 10th there was no crystal ball prognosis on SF and Atlanta hitting the skids, if there was do you think Sabean would have been trading Wheeler for Beltran?
With the benefit of hindsight would you have gone “all in” knowing Ike and Johan weren’t coming back and Reyes and Murphy were going down?
OK. Now that we got that straight. #1) No crystal ball. #2) winning it is the goal and coming close can be described as “not winning”.
This being baseball strange and magical things can and oftentimes do occur but lets take a look at what would have had to occur at the minimum for all involved:
NL Wild Cards have been won with as few as 88 wins one time. 89 never, 90 a few times, 91 -95 a few times 97 a couple of times. Wild Cards have also been missed by one game a number of times. 87 wins all the way up to 96 wins have missed out. Gone home.
The generally accepted range of MINIMUM wins to realistically have a good chance of winning a Wild Card is 90-92. last year the wild Card was won with 90 games so we’ll pick 90 as what each team needed to do.
Remember we’re not talking here about coming close and acting like we did something special. We’re talking WINNING the Wild Card and what the thought process regarding those chances should have and could have been back on July 10th (with no crystal ball on the premi)
OK.
SF (52-40) needs to go 38-32 OR just lose no more than 3 games in the standings to AZ.
AZ (49-33) need to go 41-29 OR gain 4 games in the standings against SF.
MIL (49-33) need to go 41-29 OR gain 1 game in the standings on ST. L.
St.L.(49-33) need to go 41-29 OR gain 1 game in the standings on Mil.
PITT (47-43) need to go 43-29 OR gain 3 games on BOTH St.L and Mil.
ATL (54-38) need to go 36-34 OR gain 4 games on Philly.
NYM(46-45) need to go 44-27 AND gain 1.5 on Pitts AND pass one of St.L/Mil AND pass one of SF/AZ AND pass ATL AND hold off WASH and Cinn.
CINN (45-47) need to go 45-25 OR gain 6 games on St.L, Mil AND 4 on Pittsburgh.
Now who had the most difficult road to the post season on July 10th and by how much more difficult was it? Add in a much more difficult schedule and who was being reasonable?
The interesting thing would have been if Ike and Wright hadn’t gotten hurt.
Instead of 46-45 we’re probably sitting no worse than 50-41, 7.5 back of Philly and 4 back of Atlanta and possibly an extra win against each meaning we’re 6.5 back of the Division and only 3 back of the Wild Card and no one in between ourselves and Atlanta and while it sure didn’t look that way on July 10th the fact remains that 90-92 wins gives a good chance for the NL Wild Card meaning a 2nd half of just 40-31 brings us at least to the final weekend.
Considering that we did pay K-Rods remaining 5 M and Beltran’s 6 M so would the wilpon’s have kicked in another 14 M this year by keeping K-Rod?
One thing the Wilpon’s are is business people. 140,000 more people over the remaining 35 home games X 100 bucks on parking, beer, burgers, hats, dare we think ear muffs! Taking it just to the final week pays for K-Rod’s option and maybe even a little bit of Reyes. Who knows.
At 50-41 and one team to pass you’d have an argument and I’d be with you on it. At 46-45 with FIVE different things ALL needing to happen the two trades were the right move second guessing regardless. Plus Reyes and Murphy get hurt anyway.
Your really not paying attention are you?
Just Arguing!
Who was in the lead for the WC on June 28th?
Who was 2nd when the season ended?
If you overtake that team do you overtake the rest save the Cards?
YES or NO?
The Answer is YES! And the Cards would have a one game lead on you then if you only TIED the Braves!
One Series win is Sept changes that! ONE GAME!
They are tied with Atlanta and we are the WC!
You can complain about how many inbetween you had to walk over but there could 30 teams between you and the WC if your only 2 games out your not out of it!
7.5 is not all that much different!
You only think it is a hard thing to do because you think everyone on the planet was better than us!
Thats your problem really not something the Mets had to overcome!
No the iteresting thing would have been going .500 instead of 5-13 because thats basically the difference between us and the Braves even the Cards on July 28th!
Metsie No harm to you but you never listen to anyone else’s points.
The reality on the day the sell off began (July 10th) was the way I laid it out for you.
SF, ATL, AZ, MIL, St.L, Pittsburgh, and Cinn all had two opportunities to qualify and their easiest way to qualify ranged anywhere from picking up 5 games on 3 teams to just playing slightly over .500. We had one chance and it involved 5 different things having to happen.
No one had a crystal ball. No one would have known that both SF and Atlanta would fold. No one on July 10th would have pegged the Wild Card at just 90 games either and even at that it still would have been incumbent on us to go 44-27 over the 2nd half just to tie for the Wild Card even at that low number. Add in having to pass one of the two teams in the West, two of the three teams in the Central and hold off Washington and Cinncinatti and do all this without the benefit of a crystal ball is not very likely to say the least.
If there was a weighted lottery on July 10th we would have had about 3 chances out of 100 behind everyone other than Washington.
I can almost hardly believe you are serious. If ever there was a team that due to having so many obstacles to the post season at the ASB it was us in 2011.
If you do truly believe that we were odds on a good bet to win the wild Card without the benefit of hindsight you might truly be the only person on the planet who did.
I didn’t listen to you beause what you said was all SMOKESCREEN
I know you keep trying to run those division clouds into it because it hides the glaring point made!
How many of them finised AHEAD of Atlanta in the WC Tag? NONE but ONE and one Div Winner who didn’t have anything to do with our wildcard chances!
ONLY ONE by ONE MEASLY GAME!
We played three games against that team that DID win!
we went 1-2!
We go 2-1 who gets the wildcard?
Hmmm?
Forget all those other teams because they didn’t overtake Atlanta did they?
It was about catching Atlanta! Thats what the Cards and ONLY the cards did and did iot by one game!
The rest are just as much also rans as we were!
They stayed ahead at the end because they did not decimate their team while they still had a shot!
We did!
Spin all you want but the truth is we were 6.5 games behind Atlanta on July 28th and all we needed to TIE the Cards and make the WC was to make up 7.5 games!
And if we had done it while winning the last series against the cards we are the Wildcard team!
K-Rod was in the cross hairs from day one. He was a salary dump but the chances of us winning a Wild Card at the ASB were infintismal. Beltran wasn’t a salary dump, we paid his entire salary. He was traded to improve subsequent teams chances.
Duda wouldn’t have been brought up until Murphy got hurt (Aug 8th) if Beltran stayed and Beltran himself got hurt out in SF and missed 2 weeks around the same time.
Who knows where Duda goes, probably 1B with Hairston taking over in RF.
If the Mets hadn’t had so many obstacles and a few more wins come the ASB I can see being upset at the K-Rod deal which effectively ended any realistic hope of winning (not contending) and after that the thoughts had to be on improving the team for the long run. Not another misguided fantasy of “being in it.”
Hell we were only 6 back in 2004 when we went all in at the ASB.
Why would the marlins have considered dumping salary 2/3rds of the way through the season that year anyway. They were loaded. A real solid team and just half a game back of the Wild Card and trailing just one team (us) and again by just half a game.
Sorry but those two situations couldn’t be more dissimilar.
Ypu keep saying te chances were infintessimal yet 7.5 games to make up on 60 games is not that hard of a task!
Lets try this ANOTHER way…
How many games behind can you be in July or the ASB for your season to NOT be over?
Any idea what you believe the number must be?
If there are 20 teams agead of you but your only 2 games out of the Wildcard is your season done in July?
Does the number of teams ahead of you really matter then?
You want to look at everything in hindsight but that’s not possible on July 10th.
Keeping Beltran after having traded K-Rod wouldn’t have made any sense at all and Duda hit better than Beltran did anyway.
Keeping Beltran wouldn’t have gotten Santana or Davis healthy either.
Keeping Beltran wouldn’t have prevented Reyes and Murphy from getting hurt either.
Keeping Beltran wouldn’t have prevented Niese and Gee from having bad Augusts and Septembers either.
Keeping Beltran wouldn’t have prevented Izzy, Parnell and Acosta from blowing so many leads either.
We needed to win at least 44 games and even with Duda hitting better than Beltran we only won 31 so in using hindsight your argument for going all in is even worse than without using it.
Excuse me but we are talking about what is POSSIBLE here!
What IS possible?
IS IT IMPOSSIBLE to make up 7.5 games in July and win the WC?
Apparently not!
becauase even as late as August you can be 10.5 games out and STILL make that up!
Just because your beliefs at the time told you and Sandy NO doesn’t make it IMPOSSIBLE!
Your evaluation of our chances was apparently wrong!
Yes Hindsight and the Cardinals showed you why you were in error making that assesment!
There could have been 30 teams between us and the Wildcard on that day. The only thing that is truly relevant is the games you needed to make up!
7.5 or 2 games is only more difficult based on the amount of TIME (Games) you have to do it in!
We had 60 games, Cards had only 30!
And they had more games to make up!
I’m not using hindsight I’m using REAL WORLD DATA to show WHAT WAS POSSIBLE!
Beltran and Duda would have been in the lineup together since Davis was out for the season (even though it was not publicly said so).
The trading of KRod and Beltran was solely for salary dumping and had nothing to do with the team’s performance. That the Mets were five games out of the wild card loss column almost two thirds into the season did not matter. So for Sandy to still claim Beltran’s move was going to be dependent upon his performance and the team record was an insult to a fan’s intelligence then and still is now. Whether or not fans thought little of their chances the rest of the way is irrelevant – no front office lets go of it’s top hitter and closer that close and far into the standings for a top prospect in A ball – they let the players walk the end of the season instead. Even the Marlins who were just as desperate for money didn’t do that and this resulted in a world series win.
There are, of course, a couple of factors (Madoff and attendance) that will determine if the Mets front office decides to raise the payroll of the team.
What will be the outcome of the Madoff case? If the Wipons take a huge financial hit they may be forced to sell. If the case is settled in the Mets favor then ownership will have to figure out a way of getting fans back into the stadium – and do it quickly.
I can’t believe right now that attendance has any chance of going up. As the voice says in Field Of Dreams – “if you build it, they will come”. The Mets are not building right now, they are cutting back. The fans will not come – they will not spend upwards of three hundred dollars for a family of four to watch a subpar team. A decision not to come to the ballpark is not to be confused with not supporting the team. Indeed, I believe that you support the Mets by not going to the ballpark – by not letting a foolish decision by Fred to stick with Madoff as a reason to watch the team be gutted.
I will also argue that by not even offering Reyes a deal – much less not signing him – was an anti-Mets move done by ownership. To support such a move by spending your money now on the Mets could equally be considered anti-Mets.
I think that the fans have lost faith in the current ownership and the Wilpons have to make an effort to win them back. Then, and only then will the fans return.
So for Alderson to indicate that the amount of money the team invests in their own club is to be determined by a rise in attendance – well, in my opinion, he has it backwards. The lower the attendance the louder the message from Mets fans to ownership that they will not put up with team-gutting anymore.
The problem is I don’t think many families of four would pay upwards of $300 to even see a first place club. That’s just too much for a baseball game, especially considering that’s the cost of sitting in inexpensive seats with all the concessions and parking. That might be why the Yankees only average 45,000 a game this year in a stadium that still holds 50,000 (52,000 with standing room). Not like the days in the old stadium when they averaged more than 50,000 per.
Look at the box office figures for movies. Attendance figures are the worst since 1995 and that’s because many will not pay the much lesser cost associated with taking a family of four to the movies after the price of tickets, popcorn and candy.
Venues of family entertainment have out-priced themselves and even the Yankees and movie theater owners are not immune, much less the Mets.
The situations were the same. Florida was losing a lot of money and not drawing anybody. Fielding a winning club wasn’t drawing anybody to the ball park. Business wise, getting rid of the players in mid season is a practical way to cut one’s financial losses — as Sandy has shown us. Dumping salaries would cut the deficits considering the amount of stars they had. They could have also (and eventually did) gotten some good young prospects in return to help their own “rebuilding” process.
In terms of dollars and cents, it made little sense to keep together a roster when breaking it up would reap in more value. And of course, I’m being sarcastic but to make a point.
We all knew ownership’s financial trouble was going to force them to break up the Marlins come season’s end and yet they didn’t pull the rug from underneath them mid-season despite the gains to be made in terms of cost savings measures. With that in mind, I will agree that the two situations were completely different in one important aspect. While both were losing tons of money, the ownership of one still wanted to win and I think we all know which one that was.
As others have pointed out, the Mets were holding their own last season despite the bad early season start and the injuries. The kids were doing well and playing smart and aggressive baseball. No, they weren’t as talented as those Marlin clubs but we’ve seen teams with lesser talent go all the way. And even if they did fade despite holding onto KRod and Beltran, a good organization knows it’s best interests are to let the kids play and give them all the support possible to build momentum and confidence going into the season to follow.