Wilpon Doesn’t Sound Like A Man Who’s Considering Bankruptcy To Me

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• Mike Lloyd January 12, 2012 at 7:43 pm

  Absolutely Joe. The only thing that would/ will stop Fred from keeping control would be late last ditch “smoking gun” discovery by Picard, or an absolute collapse of stadium based revenue; and that would have to be seeing things like in the late 70′s when less than 1000 people would be on hand for a game-and even then-with a 100+ loss season that would be tough to oust him. Meaningful September baseball? I think Fred’s just praying for meaning May baseball right now.
• Joe D January 12, 2012 at 7:39 pm

  I just had an excellent conversation with Anthony Rieber of Newsday who spoke to Fred Wilpon this afternoon. We spoke about Wilpon, Attendance, David Wright, Johan Santana and of course the top story of the last few weeks. Check out my post tomorrow. In the meantime read the article he filed in the past hour so you have context when you read my post tomorrow.

  http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/fred-wilpon-says-he-plans-to-keep-mets-1.3447966
  • any January 12, 2012 at 7:54 pm

    It may not seem like it from the internet, but there are still a huge number of fans that don’t obsess about the owner, or care about the GM. Like Fred says, if they put an entertaining team on the field, people will come.

    so, they are rebuilding. they did this early in the 00s. got a couple of young budding stars to catch peoples interest, started looking promising, so people got hooked and started coming out to the park even when they weren’t challenging for the WS.

    If the same pattern develops over the next few years ( a fun, interesting young team with promise) attendance will go up, and they will be able to support the bigger payroll to keep the team together, and add the few missing links to complete the team.
    • Ghost of omar January 12, 2012 at 9:31 pm

      slurp surp slurp….. some people will just suck up anything coming from anyone even a crook and a frwakin liar like fred. sad….
• tlagee January 12, 2012 at 7:40 pm

  Great work Joe.
• any January 12, 2012 at 7:49 pm

  still subject to change of course, The Picard specter still hangs over.

  But, if they managed to stabilize the finances, good for him, as long as it leads to putting money back into the team as the foundation develops.

  and MLB will not try to take a team away just because it has cash flow issues if they can get financing. Otherwise there would be a heck of a lot of turnover! As long as they can meet payroll and ongoing operations, they can keep the team.

  One thing that get overlooked. Yes, they are saddled with a lot of debt, but they also have title to a billion dollar asset (plus SNY). so they probably were more “cash poor” than actual poor. If they can pay off the ST baloon payments and get the revolving debt under control, then they might actually be able to afford the damn team after all.
• William H. January 12, 2012 at 7:53 pm

  Excellent job Joe, you have been on point all along.
• any January 12, 2012 at 7:57 pm

  I have said all along that a big part of why Sandy was foisted off on the Mets was to build the organizational foundation while they were going through the broke years. It may have been a forced efficiency campaign, but it can only benefit the team in the long run. Key is putting together a well defined, professionally managed organizational and player development structure.

  Money sure as hell helps put a winning team on the field in a given year. Money with smart management can put a sustained winner on the field.
  • Ghost of omar January 12, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    any……. good job any… too bad you don’t sound like anything but their hired mouthpiece. its even sadder if your truly eating up this wilpon bs.
    • NJstuckinTX January 12, 2012 at 10:46 pm

      Please go to San Diego.
  • srt January 12, 2012 at 9:52 pm

    What you said. If anyone didn’t believe before no that you’d have to pry the team from his cold, dead hands….they should get it now.

    This is similar to 1980. Some really lean years ahead but hopefully they emerge with a much better business model and strongerfranchise at the other end. Still isn’t going to be fun to watch for awhile and I think Fred underestimates half the fan base disgust.
  • Joey D. January 12, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    It’s not easy to destroy a franchise the way the Wilpons did. Give them the chance and they will do it all over again. Not talking about the quality of the product on the field but the integrity behind it. I’ll say it again, by treating the fan base like trash, the Wilpons did more damage to their long-term financial situation than Bernie Madoff ever could have done. M. Donald Grant did the same thing and Shea Stadium was like a morgue for seven seasons, not evening drawing 10,000 for a home opener. Tug McGraw on the 1986 video even said that it was so depressing even his own Phillie teammates didn’t look forward to coming to New York.

    And we had promising young kids in Mazilli, Henderson, Stearns, Zachary, etc. playing their hearts out in front of a near empty Shea Stadium.

    The damage continued through the early Doubleday years through no fault of the new ownership and despite their best attempts which included a George Foster, bringing back of Tom Seaver, the return of Kingman and Staub plus the introduction of Diamond Vision.
    • trs86 January 13, 2012 at 9:45 am

      Help me out but how have they treated the fans like crap? By spending too much money because they were too attached to fan whims?
• Joey D. January 12, 2012 at 10:25 pm

  Wilpon might not sound like someone concerned with bankruptcy and I guess he wasn’t too concerned about those employees he let go, either.

  As others have cited, nobody is going to publicize how bad the financial situation really is in order not to deflate the value of the team more than it already has. Fred feels he is going to have to work hard to bring the fans back and that pertains to bringing back a winning team – so out of touch Fred, you lost a lot of fans like me and others by treating us like trash compared to those who could afford to pay to go in the first place.

  P.S. Don’t forget that in late 2008 Jeff Wilpon said their assets were well diversified and that the Madoff situation would have no affect on the operation of the team. His G.M. also said last winter that we might be surprised how soon Johann might return to the rotation – we are still waiting.

  So don’t by the pubic persona. But it’s scary to think there might be credibility in what he is saying this time around.
  • Pedro January 12, 2012 at 11:36 pm

    I’m sorry I can’t cry too much for a few people being let go from a minor league baseball team since I myself have been laid off since 2009 from a company that got a MASSIVE government bailout. Suck it up and get over it. Stuff happens. Deal with it.

    As for Fred Wilpon,..let’s see he spent 143mm, 126mm, 149mm and 137mm respectively from 2008-2011 (not that they spent it wisely), built a new stadium (which is really nice by the way) and started a regional sports TV network. So how exactly has he treated “fans like you” like trash? Grow up will you please!

    The Mets have been hit by the real world that most Mets fans must not live in. The world is in chaos, American is a shell of what we where 25 years ago, the economy is in shambles and it has effected both rich, poor and in between.
    If anything most of us REAL fans can relate to what has happened to the Mets since we are experiencing the same thing.

    If anything you should be rallying behind them. I for one will be going to more games than last season. Why? Because I can relate to this team.
    • LongTimeFan January 13, 2012 at 12:11 am

      Great post, Pedro.
    • Joey D. January 13, 2012 at 12:15 am

      Why do I say the Wilpons have treated the average fan as trash?

      - They made it too expensive for many families to attend a game.

      - They have more entrances for the exclusive use of fans seating in the very expensive seats instead of making most entrances accessible to all.

      - More care was put into the planning of making Citi Field a place for shopping than it was for baseball. Some of the spaces used for all those stores could have been set aside for more three sets of elevator banks.

      - Fans along the left and right field lines have to walk a flight of stairs to get to the upper promenade since only the escalator behind home plate goes that high. For us old enough to have been Met fans that first year in the Polo Grounds, that is not such an easy task.

      - How about only two sets of restrooms in the upper promenade?

      - How about those sitting in promenade along the the third base line being unable to see a large segment of left field in order to accommodate the patrons of that expensive restaurant one level below which is only open to certain ticket holders? And what I mean by large is sitting in section 525 just past third base and not being able to see anything to the left of the retired baseball for Shea.

      That’s what I mean by being treated like trash. They build a smaller ballpark and expected to make more with less patrons by charging outrageous prices for tickets, parking and concessions. They catered to the those with more money to spend and it shows in every aspect of the new ball park.
      • Joey D. January 13, 2012 at 12:20 am

        P.S. Having also been out of work I can have sympathy for those who lost their jobs. I have a cousin who lost his before the new insurance laws went into place and he had a wife with cancer. The Wilpons cut 15 of their office staff with low paying jobs so downsizing in this case would not have made a dent in resolving their financial troubles.
      • gary s. January 13, 2012 at 8:29 am

        Joey D., I think me and you were separated at birth.I have the same exact thoughts about Citifield and the Wilpons for the last 3 years.The outrageous ticket pricing, increased parking costs and lousy sightlines all speak to trashing of the fan base.The Brooklyn Dodger Rotunda highlights an owner who is living in a parallel universe.Not one video of the 69 or 86 mets when you take the elevator upstairs?MIND BOGGLING!!!TheY used the Yankee business model for seating.The only problem is when you charge a fortune to attend games, you actually have to win more games than you lose every year.Despite what Joe D. says if attendence plummets i don’t believe Fred will still be the majority owner in 2015.I hope he chokes on his Chardonnay if he is .
      • trs86 January 13, 2012 at 9:49 am

        Holy hell what whinning. Dont go… hell just because you dont like the stadium design you say the wilpons treated us like trash? Lets define us.
        • Ghost of omar January 13, 2012 at 9:54 am

          Lets see how many non design things you missed trs86 in your rush to show your love for ponzi man fred. Gary brught up ticket pricing, parking costs, the Brooklyn Dodger rotunda, not one video of either NEW YORK MET champisonship team, I guess the things that prove fred is a crap person have to be ignored in the name of love.
          • trs86 January 13, 2012 at 10:45 am

            So if that is treating like garbage then is SNY treating them like gold? Or could it be that most owners focus is making money? Perhaps if Fred had been more concerned with money instead of fan opinion he would not be in this mess.
            • Joey D. January 13, 2012 at 11:29 am

              Those who are offended by the points raised by Gary and myself regarding the Wilpons look at it beyond the purely business viewpoint but of one of integrity and respect. As far as ticket prices, they are less expensive in smaller markets like Milwaukee, Atlanta, Detroit, St. Louis, etc. and those teams aren’t exactly losing money or suffering through rebuilding stages.

              They also have ball parks where those in the upper deck can see all the things those in the more expensive seats see and though I don’t know this, my hunch is there are more bathrooms up there for the fans as well.

              I won’t go so far as to say I wish the Wilpons any ill-will, but I have little use for those who only look at dollar signs and not the integrity of their business. I do, however, respect them for the main rotunda that honors Jackie Robinson, for his legacy should always carry on and am glad to see the Wilpons being sensitive to that issue.
              • trs86 January 13, 2012 at 11:35 am

                So lets see, I live in Charlotte and I can’t afford to go to a Bobcats or Panthers game… LOL the ticket prices for that are much higher than a random seat at Citi. Also, no one is forcing you to buy the seats from the team… hell right now you can get all the seats you want for cheap on the Stub. If anything the demise of the team has made the team much more accessible to the middle class fan.
      • NJstuckinTX January 13, 2012 at 9:51 am

        Name me a professional sport that hasn’t priced the average fan out? The only “deals” are to be had at minor league events. You can’t tab that on Wilpon.
        • Joey D. January 13, 2012 at 11:47 am

          I can name 19 other major league clubs that don’t.

          While I was wrong saying that St. Louis charges less than the Mets do, but according to this list, the average ticket prices for 2011 were lower for 19 other teams including the Dodgers, Angels, Brewers, Tigers, Braves, Giants, Diamondbacks, which represents both large and small market areas and are competitive unlike Pittsburgh, Kansas City or Houston.

          In addition, the Mets have the second highest “additional” charges in baseball, only behind the BoSox. Two years ago we sat in the upper promenade and the tickets cost $19 each. How much did the total come out to? $63. We paid $25 more in those hidden processing and handling fees and if Fed Ex overnight only costs $6.95 for individuals, I am sure the corporate fee is even less. Deducting $6.95 from that $63, for two seats ($38 total) we paid one dollar less than what it would cost for three ($57).

          This is the list:

          New York Yankees $80.35
          Toronto Blue Jays $72.39
          Tampa Bay Rays $61.50
          Texas Rangers $58.82
          Boston Red Sox $58.75
          Baltimore Orioles $55.26
          Philadelphia Phillies $46.79
          St. Louis Cardinals $46.11
          Chicago Cubs $42.59
          New York Mets $37.55
          Arizona Diamondbacks $31.13
          Milwaukee Brewers $31.01
          Los Angeles Dodgers $29.68
          Oakland Athletics $29.33
          Seattle Mariners $28.30
          San Diego Padres $26.39
          Cleveland Indians $24.19
          Washington Nationals $24.00
          Houston Astros $23.25
          Los Angeles Angels $22.92
          Detroit Tigers $22.20
          Miami Marlins $21.11
          Atlanta Braves $20.76
          Kansas City Royals $20.62
          Chicago White Sox $20.46
          Colorado Rockies $19.26
          San Francisco Giants $18.84
          Pittsburgh Pirates $17.23
          Minnesota Twins $15.27
          Cincinnati Reds $15.22
• Rich from Lake Como January 12, 2012 at 11:16 pm

  Of course Wilpon doesn’t sound like an owner who will file bankruptcy soon. People who do that don’t broadcast their intentions so as not to disrupt their day to day business. Joe D, either you are incredibly naive or just plain stupid… stop waiving the pom poms for these bad owners. They have been alienating fans for years. Basically, their financial situation is out of their hands and will be determined by outsiders. By the way, when was the last time the Wilpons made any statements to the public that were true?. There’s gonna be a sea or Red Ink this year for them… they have become irrelevant.
  • LongTimeFan January 13, 2012 at 12:08 am

    Irrelevant? I think some fans want to believe they’re irrelevant. Sounds like you’re one of those.

    The fact is, they’ll only be irrelevant baseball-wise should they no longer own the team. Granted that they own the team, and have in some way since 1981, they are 100% relevant which applies whether you believe they are, or not.
• metropolitans12 January 13, 2012 at 8:40 am

  Agree with you, Joe D. Nice job.

  If only the rest of the NY sports media were as thoughtful and objective as you.

  Keep up the good work. I’ll be following and reading.

  One thing I do disagree with you about is how the Mets will perform this year. I think they will be much better than most are predicting and I expect them to be competitive.

  I also don’t believe the payroll is going to drop in 2013 and beyond as much as you think. I think $90 million will likely be the bottom.
• Anthony Marte January 13, 2012 at 9:43 am

  Nice work Joe.

  I have so much disgust for Bud Selig right now. Its downright disrespectful to Mets fans, after everything we’ve been through, to say “he’s everything you’d want in a local owner.” For shame Bud, for shame.
  • trs86 January 13, 2012 at 9:51 am

    Other than spending the money poorly and listening to the wrong people i guess he has…
• theonlymaskman January 13, 2012 at 10:19 am

  For an article that claims to be fact-based, there actually are no facts presented but only spin. We are being fed smoke and mirrors offered up by the spin of Wilpon and Selig. The reality is that the Mets are embarking on a season with a new low in player competitiveness on the field. Mets fans are very astute and will rapidly catch on to this and the gate will shrink. The continuing decline in revenue will heighten the financial crisis. Better days are not directly ahead for Fred as the franchise continues in a downward spiral. Just saying that it isn’t so doesn’t solve the problem. The debt burden still needs to be serviced for many years to come. The lure of Citifield is wearing off and its glaring flaws are tooking root with the fan base. There is less of a draw to attend games. Red ink will not be dissipated by wishful thinking but by genuine actions to increase attendance. There is none of that and all the momentum is downward. While all of those negatives are in force, Picard still lurks in the shadows to upset the house of cards. No, I disagree with this article. It is not fact-based, but rather a long list of fantasy that verges on poppy-cock. I wish it weren’t so, but this franchise still continues to sink to new lows and Fred’s position is less sure every day even with his friends in high places.