Why Not Move Jason Bay to RF?

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• jessep January 23, 2012 at 11:26 am

  One of the problems with ONLY looking at stats is you equate an arm in LF to an arm in RF.

  “Bay has had a slightly positive ARM rating over the last two years, with last year coming in at .2. That is still 2.4 points better than Lucas Duda”

  If you moved Duda to LF would he then get a positive arm rating due to the lesser chances to make a throw?

  I have to see more of Duda, but I believe I’ve seen enough to know Bay’s arm is not equipped for RF. If TC thinks Duda has a better arm than Bay, than that’s enough for me.
  • jessep January 23, 2012 at 11:27 am

    By the way you also have to consider (hopefully) the Mets have a better fielding CF which means less worry about “how much ground” a corner OF covers when shifting towards CF.
• Donal January 23, 2012 at 11:16 am

  Bay doesn’t have the arm for RF.
  • Hank January 23, 2012 at 11:25 am

    The advanced stats on fielding are hard to base all of your argument on because they vary wildly from year to year (just look at Carlos Lee’s UZR and forget that your own eyes and common baseball perception agrees he’s a terrible fielder anywhere) and are based too highly based on perception (i.e. what a guy should be able to cover/get to).

    That said, common baseball knowledge says you hide your worse fielder in LF. Furthermore, LF might be Duda’s longterm position anyway, so why not get him started there now. So, if Bay can cover more ground and catch more balls (as opposed to Duda), I’m more than fine with putting him in right.
    • Donal January 23, 2012 at 12:15 pm

      You also risk exposing Bay. He may be doing well now ebcause it is LF and it isn’t as much work.

      Not the worst idea we’ve seen here by any stretch, but I don’t see a lot of positive returns for it.
      • Hank January 23, 2012 at 12:37 pm

        I think I agree. The only real positive is getting Duda in his possible longterm home now, as opposed to having him learn a new position in another year or so. It’s January, so it’s time for throwing out ideas. But for a team that needs just about every break in 2012, this is a move that’s not worth it.
• Jon January 23, 2012 at 11:33 am

  Before moving Bay, we should see if Duda is even an everyday player……at least Bay proved that with his prior teams
  Duda has played only one half season at the major league level
• Anthony Marte January 23, 2012 at 11:38 am

  You have to let Duda develop more before making a definitive judgement on his fielding ability. This coming season will probably be the season when he grows into the player he’s going to be. Give him another chance to prove himself in the outfield and if moving him to LF helps him with that, then great. If the Mets really can’t handle his lack of athleticism then they should just trade him after the season.
  • Sean Kenny January 23, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    fielding ability is one of the few factors for most outfielders (especially unathletic outfielders) that is fairly relative. The difference is making Duda from poor, to passable can be just by learning how to properly take routes, and positioning. Duda would not be a RF on many, if any teams and would struggle to more than likely be a starting LF on most teams, bat not withstanding.
• Bayonne Mets Fan January 23, 2012 at 12:00 pm

  Despite his offensive woes you can make an argument that Jason Bay is one of the best defensive Left fielders in the team’s history so I would not mess with that and weaken 2 positions for the sake of experiment.

  Also guys have have problems picking up the ball from the bat. Some players pick up the ball very easily from CF but if you move them to LF or RF they don’t do as well because they have a hard time adjusting to the different angles they see the ball leaving the bat. That does happen and could happen here. Some guys don’t have a problem with making that adjustment, Beltran appeared to overcome it with no problem.

  I would not make any changes – let Duda get more acclimated with RF instead of changing 2 players positions
  • NJstuckinTX January 23, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Agreed.
  • Donal January 23, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Damn it, Sean, you’ve got be agreeing with Bayonne.

    but seriously, yes, you are risking 2 positions with such a move. We don’t know how Bay would respond to the subtle nuances that goes with each position. He’s got 1 career game in right field and that was for Pittsburgh in 2003.
    • Sean Kenny January 23, 2012 at 12:35 pm

      is risking a position that Duda is already below average at even risking it then? At minimum i’m advocating an attempt at playing Jason Bay there in RF. It doesn’t work, move him back. Duda has no home on the field, as he has played both outfield spots and first. If anything, isn’t playing Duda in RF, which is out of position considering he was playing LF in the minors the same kind of animal?
      • Donal January 23, 2012 at 12:50 pm

        Right now, they have a risk in Duda in RF. If you swap him and Bay, you are risking both corners.

        also, if Bay doesn’t do well in RF, you further diminish his trade value. I know it sucks that we have to consider that, but it is our reality at the moment.

        For now, I thin kthe best option is to let Bay continue to field LF well now, have duda in RF with Torres helping out in CF. It ain’t pretty, but it is probably the best we have.

        Another time, maybe we could consider this, but we also have question marks all over the infield as well as the entire pitching staff.
• XtreemIcon January 23, 2012 at 12:05 pm

  I think Bay has to stay in LF to build his trade value back up. Moving him to a new position will force growing pains on an already below-average-to-average fielder, and no one really expects him to hit well enough to overcome those faults in the eyes of another team who might want him. If he can hit .270/.350/.420 with 12-14 jacks by the deadline, he could be attractive to another team if he plays his marginal defense in LF. If he moves to right, he could be flat out bad and lower his value.
  • Sean Kenny January 23, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    For that to even happen, the Mets would have to be willing to eat a big portion of contract, and the team taking Jason would have to be willing to accept the odds of his vesting option.
    • XtreemIcon January 23, 2012 at 12:15 pm

      Of course, but that’s the direction of the team right now. Wright will be traded, Bay will hopefully be traded, and whatever money is saved will go to the debt. Bay never should have been signed, but desperate acts by desperate GMs lead to that kind of roster move and now we’re stuck with him. And now all Mets fans can hope for is a decent year so the Mets can have to honor of paying him $10 or so mil a year to play for someone else.
      • Sean Kenny January 23, 2012 at 12:19 pm

        Bay also does have a no-trade clause that seems to be overlooked, so I’d imagine your reference a waiver-wire trade after the deadline? The odds of him waving that clause to play for anything short of a champion who will guarantee him at bats this year, then keep him under 500 AB’s for the next two to ensure the option doesn’t vest is extremely low.
        • XtreemIcon January 23, 2012 at 12:28 pm

          This is pure speculation, but I would imagine the teams who’d be able to afford Bay would be contending teams, anyway. Bay gets booed here. You think he’d invoke his clause to stay here to lose and get booed when he could go to a winning team? And as far as that team keeping his option from vesting, if he stinks it up through May, he’ll likely be platooned here, where they lose and boo him. I can see Bay bolting if give the option.
• any January 23, 2012 at 12:36 pm

  Well, Bay certainly is not part of the LT plan. And may not even last the year.

  So, regardless of how you start this year, Duda could easily end up in LF in the not too distant future anyway.
• Mr North Jersey January 23, 2012 at 12:37 pm

  I wouldn’t say Bay is a poor fielder if anything he is a average left fielder to me. Bay’s limitations is mostly his range due to his speed at getting to balls but the balls he gets to he very seldom fails to catch them.

  I can see a team moving a very good outfielder to another position to allow a weaker one play a position where he may be more comfortable at in hopes that you don’t lose much due to how good your better outfielder is but I don’t know if I see that in this case with Bay and Duda.

  Duda supposedly played more as a left fielder in the minors but I don’t know if he played enough where there would be a significant difference defensively in moving him to LF and Bay to RF as opposed to him staying in RF and leaving Bay in LF.

  I wouldn’t mind seeing Duda go back to LF if only because he may be more comfortable there but if it meant moving Bay to RF I don’t see that at this time as a better outfield.
• Pauly NYM! January 23, 2012 at 2:03 pm

  If I was Collins I’d put the defense as followed; Thole C, Davis 1B, Tejada 2B, Wright SS, Murphy 3B, Duda LF, Bay CF, Torres RF. Wright desperately wants to play SS since his exit from his old HS in VA and his defense in 3B is declining every game and we can’t see him lose confidence or else his bat will be demolished with what ever is left, Murphy is best at 3B than 2B and DP are more safe on his knees when as 3B during 5-6/4-3 DP, Tejada is more solid at 2B than SS and would help take pressure off his sophomore season on “reyes expectations”, Duda is comfortable at LF and not much of a liability compared to when on RF, Torres to RF instead of Bay because Torres has a better arm also can cover any bay flaws in right CF due to Torres range and Bay CF because he’s more accustom there than RF because he’s played only 1 game in RF in his career but platooned between LF with only CF opposed to RF during his time with pirates.
  • Joe Diaz January 23, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    Wright’s defense at 3B has been declining the last few years and you want to put him at SS. That would be disasterous,plus Wright doesn’t have the arm for SS.

    I would have no problem at all putting Bay in RF and Duda in LF. Duda has no arm.Bay’s is at least decent,fairly accurate as well.RF and LF is not all that different except for the longer throw.
    • any January 23, 2012 at 3:51 pm

      Duda actually made some pretty storng throws. He seems to have plenty of arm.

      He actually used to pitch and reportedly could hit 90.

      Might not be fast, but he can throw.
      • srt January 23, 2012 at 3:57 pm

        Pitch? There’s our 6th starter – LOL.
    • Pauly NYM! January 23, 2012 at 4:15 pm

      Wright at SS might not make sense now but you have to give a shot. He has experience there from high school, he came up a SS and his arm is just fine also fans would be okay with it instead of the common mets fan that would destroy tejadas confidence if he screws up once but wright gets a pass at SS because fans still praise him for 2 good seasons. Also bay at RF I strongly disagree because he has to get accustom to seeing the ball get off the bat a completely different view and perspective.
• Brian January 23, 2012 at 2:06 pm

  I would have traded Duda and Niese to Seattle for Pineda in a heartbeat. We have too many of these players like him and Murphy who have no real defensive position they can call home, but can swing a solid bat. Niese more than makes up for the difference between Montero and Duda, and we would get a top rotation pitcher for the next 6 years. I’m dumbfounded at what a backseat defense takes with this front office. Wright, Murphy, Thole, Duda are going to have Mets making a run at the record for errors.
  • jessep January 23, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    “I would have traded Duda and Niese to Seattle for Pineda in a heartbeat”

    I would have also, but I don’t see why Seattle would do that.

    We like Duda, but he is not a high impact prospect right now. He’s not Montero.

    Your offer while not bad for a trade elsewhere is merely quantity over quality in my opinion when it comes to Montero/Pineda

    The reason that deal worked was both teams got what they needed. In your plan, I think the Mets make out all too well
• jdon January 23, 2012 at 9:53 pm

  How about we move him to Strawberry Fields?
• Mike Lloyd January 24, 2012 at 1:25 am

  I’m of many of the same above that opine, moving Bay, weakens 2 positions, not 1. Duda, though a fine hitter, is a square peg in a round hole defensively. I would move him to an AL Club for young pitching if possible. (Tampa or Oakland come to mind) He would thrive in the AL as a DH/1B/OF. The Mets are going to struggle scoring runs IMO anyway, not because they are terrible lineup wise, but because the pitching in the rest of the division is that much better, Buerle, Strasburg returning, Gonzalez, all the young Braves
  arms, JJ back in Miami as well… It’s tough to compete for this team as of now…If we had a healthy in his prime Gary Maddox roaming in CF, it wouldn’t make a difference…defensively with Duda. I love the kids’ bat, but Torres,
  although good with the glove, won’t make a huge difference helping Duda out there. It’s a nice theory, but everyone has the same access to stats offensive and defensive. Good RH hitters will look to go to RF with outside
  pitches just as they would look to
  turn on inside stuff if he was in LF. I’d deal him now to maximize return on his value, it may never be higher…Just my 2 cents, that and another 1.50 will buy you a cup of coffee. If Ike is your 1B, and you were looking at Cody Ross, maybe thats what Sandy was thinking as well…