Comments on: Taking A Deeper Look Into Pelfrey’s Contract

By: Mr North Jersey

Mr North Jersey — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 18:46:31 +0000

Jessep, out of curiosity what was the source you used for the arbitration rules?

By: Alan

Alan — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 18:39:33 +0000

You can interpret the stats and the Pelfrey history any way that you choose but when I look at Mike I see a guy who should be pounding the strike zone and going after hitters throughout a game. But when Mike gets into trouble instead of doing so he reverts backwards and becomes timid and loses his command. He may have been asked to be the ace once Santana got hurt but he does not have the right mental strength to be that guy……

But as with most things in this world of free agency and absurd salaries…Pelfrey gets millions!

Makes me laugh that our only Hall of Fame player who personified confidence, talent and 10 years of excellence par none got run out of town when he wanted to be paid like the one year wonders like Andy Messersmith. In this market Tom Seaver could have signed a 10 year contract worth 300 million bucks…

May M Donald Grant be resurrected from the grave and then die a slow but painful death.

By: jessep

jessep — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:58:18 +0000

hence why you don’t see any of “them” in here

By: Chris

Chris — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 07:23:08 +0000

this civil, mature, intelligent adult baseball discussion is like “CORE” kryptonite.

By: Hank

Hank — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 04:08:07 +0000

Arbitration like most lawyerly things, takes precedents very seriously. With K-Rod, his market was set by closers (Papelbon, Bell, and Madson). His loss in salary has less to do with his “new” role as a set-up man, and more to do with the market set by his peers.

Oh this is all about Pelfrey. That salary isn’t the worse thing in the world. The screwy arbitration system is what it is. Most likely, the Mets will hope for a good first half, and then a trade for prospects. This is the plan in 2012, and I’m fine with it. Hope your players turn into trade-able assets to free up salary (so money is used more efficiently, all of our dream I know) and add to the prospect base because the more high-end prospects you have…the more likely you are to hit on a few of them.

By: jdon

jdon — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 02:38:36 +0000

I am sick of Mike. I defended him for 3 years. I thought that split change would really upgrade him but he overused it. He also lost the sink on his sinker. The most frustrating aspect of Pelfrey is the complete absence of an out pitch, which the split change was for a short time. Watching batters foul pitch after pitch off until Pelfrey gave in to them was excruciating. His stuff was overrated somewhat, but his heart was overrated big time. Still, this is the kind of money stiff pitchers get from arbitrators. They might be able to trade him during the season. I hope they do. Watching him work is painful. Having said that, Bedard does not float my boat. Another mental case. And has anyone seen Dontrelle pitch the last five years. He is a batting practice pitcher. Who also happens to have severe anxiety problems. Actually, Pelfrey is better than those guys. And I don;t want Pelfrey.

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 23:24:46 +0000

Well, Papelbon is the only closer to sign a deal worth more than $9 mil annually, and if K-Rod was honest with himself, he probably realized he’s not as good as Bell and Valverde and Madson, so $8 mil seemed like a fair amount.

By: jessep

jessep — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:59:04 +0000

Right, in 2010 only 8 players went all the way to the hearing. Think about how many players are arbitration eligible and only EIGHT go the distance?

That tells you all you need to know about what both sides see in the system

By: srt

srt — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:58:28 +0000

Thanks. I figured the discussion had something to do with the team claiming he would/should be paid as a set up guy, not a closer.

I’m still surprised he took that arbitration. I’m sure he could have got at least a one year deal from some team to be their closer but maybe the decision was based on he didn’t think he’d get even the 8 million.

By: jessep

jessep — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:48:56 +0000

right. I was using a general “any good agent” there… but yes, Boras is the best.

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:20:15 +0000

SRT, I can make a guess about K-Rod. My guess is he wasn’t worth the $12 mil he earned in 2011 (that’s not a guess, I think we all know he wasn’t…the guess is that HE knew it). Slice some off the top, the consider he’s leaving his closer role, which always makes more money then their set-up counterparts, and we get $8 mil. I don’t think it was as completely cut and dry as all that, but that’s likely the long and short of it.

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:13:37 +0000

A lot of what you’re saying is true, and that speaks to in-exactitude of the arbitration process as a whole, which is why teams and players generally don’t get there. Contracts are almost always given instead of hearings and the price of avoiding a hearing may be a little more than what the performance dictates the price should be.

By: Jeff

Jeff — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:05:02 +0000

I see where you are coming from and I total appreciate the argument, my point is more to overall value. Pelfrey is not worth 5.65 million dollars and if lined up with others guys in that range will fall to the bottom of the pack if not the very bottom. I don’t think anyone can argue that the current Mets salaries line up with the actual values of players. Obviously their are many reasons for that but the point holds true that Mike is being paid more than he is worth.

By: srt

srt — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:01:21 +0000

Good point.
If he wasn’t a high draft pick and he wasn’t hyped as ‘ace’ type material and he made his debut with expectations as slotting in at a 4 type pitcher, then he there probably wouldn’t have been much outrage at keeping him this year.

By: srt

srt — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:59:05 +0000

Excellent article and follow up comments by all here. Thanks for the easy to read explanations.

I won’t pretend to still understand it all (case in point KRod’s 2012 salary) but I fully expected Pelfrey to get somewhere in the ballpark of what they gave him.

I know one thing, Pelfrey had better have a career year here in 2012 or he’d better invest this salary wisely. If he’s mediocre or less than that (which is entirely possible) this might be the most money he sees in any one year as a pitcher.

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:50:33 +0000

Jeff, the Price example speaks to the service time and previous salary aspect of the arbitration process. This is Price’s first foray into arbitration, and he made $2.08 mil last season, as opposed to Pelfrey who’s old hat at this made a little less than $4 mil. Price got a raise north of 200% this year, and Pelf’s raise was 44%. I’d say Price is five times a better pitcher than Pelf, wouldn’t you?

By: Jeff

Jeff — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:41:04 +0000

My point is that he is making the same amount of money of guys who are way better. A timely example would be David Price, who is a fantastic pitcher just signed for about a million dollars less. I honestly can’t imagine what Pelf’s agent’s argument would be. Besides Mike pitches a lot of innings, what other accomplishments could he point to that merit higher pay?

By: Donal

Donal — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:34:48 +0000

“If Pelfrey’s agent was good he could easily make a case that Pelf has earned close to if not 5.7 mil in my opinion ”

and we all know who Pelf’s agent is

By: Jeff

Jeff — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:23:26 +0000

I think even more comment stats like ERA and Strikeouts can be used to display his general poor performance. Also I don’t think you need to walk into a room and start throwing xFIP but I think an arbitrator can understand any baseball statistic offered and explained in a reasonable manner, you have in hour in their, you can’t just talk about wins for 60 minutes. I also think any reasonable analysis of Pelf to similar pitchers would show his mediocrity.

I am not saying they should pay him less but the same or not a 44% raise would be acceptable. I think his whole career has been pretty poor, not just 2011.

Appreciate the civil discourse as well, it’s a rarity in comments sections.

By: Donal

Donal — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:16:25 +0000

His career really hasn’t been poor. It’s been average. Being mediocre is still better than being “teh sux”.

He obviously has not lived up to the expectations set for him. But still, he’s a servicable #4 starter.