5
2012
Sandy Alderson: No Big Trades, No Big Spending, Johan Okay, Needs To Fill Two Bench Spots
An article by Craig Lerner
Sandy Alderson talks to the media
Sandy Alderson spoke to reporters this afternoon and Adam Rubin of ESPN New York was kind enough to transcribe most of the details.
- Sandy Alderson said it’s “fair” to say Mets won’t sign anyone who commands more than $1.5 million. Still, Alderson said free agent market should still be “robust” since players who made more than $1.5 million in past now may command less.
- Sandy Alderson on adding more starting pitcher: Our problem is we’ve got 5 guys that we like, five guys that deserve to pitch in a rotation.
- At this point, Sandy Alderson says he is looking to fill out the bench and a last spot in the bullpen. He’s looking at right-handed hitting outfielders and a shortstop who can fill in on a stop-gap basis, in the event someone like Ruben Tejada got injured. “Basically we’re looking to fill out the bench as well as the last spot in the bullpen.”
- Sandy Alderson declines to speak about Mets minority ownership sales, except to say nothing has changed since Christmas party. Alderson said at Christmas party that he expected Mets would have minority investors on board in January.
- Sandy Alderson said Santana should have normal spring training, but you never know until he tries to bounce back from repetitive pitching. Alderson said trainer Ray Ramirez spent 10 days with Johan Santana in Venezuela. Santana about 3 weeks into throwing program.
- Alderson said Mets doing full physicals, including internal medicine, on free-agent signings so there’s longer gap from deal to announcement.
Well, feast on that everybody. Plenty here to discuss.
All in all this was a successful offseason under very extreme circumstances. I give a lot of credit to Alderson who set out to revamp the bullpen and brought in some terrific pieces who have all had some success in the past.
Getting back a healthy Johan Santana will be the key to how the season progresses past March and into April. One thing is certain and that is that the front office are being very cautious which is a departure from how things used to be around here.
I’m glad to see we are finally doing “FULL” physicals before we hand millions to a free agent.
About the Author: Craig Lerner
I'm a data analyst and researcher for a leading news agency who loves life and is hooked on the Mets. I love following the Amateur Draft and have a particular fondness for the Mets Minor Leagues who I follow each day. Give me a cold beer, a summer day, and a Mets game, and I'm good to go.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 24 | 18 | .571 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 20 | .535 | 1.5 |
| Phillies | 20 | 23 | .465 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 24 | .400 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 32 | .256 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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“Sandy Alderson on adding more starting pitcher: Our problem is we’ve got 5 guys that we like, five guys that deserve to pitch in a rotation.”
- read: we don’t have the money to upgrade, so buckle and and enjoy Clark Griswald snowsled ride down the hill!
Clark: Burn some dust here. Eat my rubber.
Rusty Griswold: Dad, I think you mean burn rubber and eat my dust.
Clark: Whatever, Russ. Whatever.
Yeah, why improve the crappy rotation—like all the other teams have done in the NL East?!
Here are the ERA+ numbers for our “deserving” starting five last year: Santana (did not pitch), Gee 84, Niese 84, Pelfrey 78, and Dickey 113 (yay, one pitcher above average!),
Oh Great another Sandy Lover. All hail the great and immortal Sandy. BAHHHH hm hm FROTH hm hm ARGHHHH
again, +1 for the use of the word Froth.
All in all this was a successful offseason under very extreme circumstances. I give a lot of credit to Alderson who set out to revamp the bullpen and brought in some terrific pieces who have all had some success in the past”
LMAO, MY GOODNESS…..
Yes, all in all a totally hilarious article and I’m ROTFLMAO.
“He’s looking at right-handed hitting outfielders”
Was this before or after Hairston resigned?
“All in all this was a successful offseason under very extreme circumstances.”
I wouldn’t go that far. He did what he could in a lousy situation.
” I give a lot of credit to Alderson who set out to revamp the bullpen and brought in some terrific pieces who have all had some success in the past.”
Again, the language is a little strong. We won’t know how well he did for a few months.
We really haven’t had a chance to see what Alderson can do. Not publicly, anyway. I think he did really well with Beltran and Rodriguez. It won’t be until the money situation is stable and he’s able to make gambles and has a lot of choices to make before we know how well he is doing.
lol, this is like a WWE heel vs. heel match where one saber goon is admonishing the other. You really have to be a crazed sabermetric, fantasy baseball extremist for the parrot to be the voice of reason, lol..and that’s the case right here, lol.
I think Lerner is the Al-Qaeda of saber. He is completely out of his mind in love with Sandy almost to frightening levels
Or you just have to be not hate raging moron with way too much unjustified self satisfaction to nicely disagree with someone.
Donal: You shouldn’t speak so poorly about yourself….
Yep, a successful off season this was..under the circumstances – it was a successful off season.
Just like when Craig Lerner said the Mets 2011 season was “A Success”. He even wrote a story about it. Oh and Lerner also wrote that Alderson’s offseason last year was “Remarkable”
Funny, i used to associate the word success with getting into the post season, winning a championship, stuff like that. Now the word success, according to Craig Lerner is any move that can be considered “decent” by Alderson. Forget that horrendous handling of the Jose Reyes situation, the horrendous job handling the catching and his other non-moves – this was a SUCCESS.
Saber also rationalizes things to such a degree that it’s lowered the bar for these guys. Wins are not an important stat with these guys but any positive number that is achieved through saber is a “success.
“Saber also rationalizes things to such a degree that it’s lowered the bar for these guys”
What?
” Wins are not an important stat with these guys but any positive number that is achieved through saber is a “success.”
Pitcher wins are not an important stat. Team wins are. The idea is that the use of sabermetrics over tired old and inaccurate stats like RBI leads to more team wins in the long run.
Of course, what the Mets are going through right now has little to do with any sort of stat measuring and more to do with being broke. They are an organization with problems top to bottom have been a laughing stock in the league for years.
Alderson is here to change that. And if he does happen to use some analysis that you have no hope of understanding, then so be it.
If it requires patience and not jumping after every big money name on the market, then fine.
Alderson is here to change that. And if he does happen to use some analysis that you have no hope of understanding, then so be it”
is that why he traded for hu?? stop it ok, looking for excuses for this man is purely ridiculous!
Why are you obsessed with a guy who isn’t even on the team?
He traded a AA pitcher who stalled out for a bench warmer who was supposed to be a late inning defensive replacement. He didn’t work out and was shipped off. It cost next to nothing in the end.
Strange, but I don’t think you can get “team wins” without “pitcher wins”. Stop the camouflage and recognize the limitations of the pitching staff and realize that we’re stuck with it and the man is only going after 1 RP. So we have what we have and it’s NOT competitive. So much for the success in the off-season.
last year was a successfull year, this year the same so far in the offseason, we’re looking at a team that might win 70 games and this sandy lover declares losing reyes, overpaying for 2 relievers with over 3.50 era and acquiring torres a succesfull offseason… my god.. seriously man, why you keep praising alderson the way you do is beyond me…..
Johan is such a wildcard. he’s only the third pitcher(i know of) that had this surgury, Prior never made it back, Wang looked good but took him 2 full seasons..im in the minority but i have hope that Santana is going to productive for a full season, Alderson is correctly tempering expectations, i just see his recovery as an ‘unknown ‘ as the sample size is so small i dont see it as improbable that he can pitch competively after 1 1/2 year DL stint. So given today’s word on Johan, i can see him being productive this season.
Id like them to sign another starter even thou they are comfy going in w their 5. But i suspect they will resign MBatista or similar type swingman. Im also looking forward to who they are going to sign at middle infield we def need some stability there !!
I also think if the Mets stay healthy, something we havent been in 4 seasons, i think they can be better then we expect. They obv have their foot off the gas bringing in big name players to compete, and obv lost Reyes so there was a subtraction, but i think if theyre just healthy it will make up for alot..plus a big breakout seaosn form Niese or someone else . . . off season hope form me. . .
Hearing that Ray Ramirez spent 10 days with Santana leads me to believe Santana is going to be on the shelf…just like every other injured player Ramirez touches…how is this guy still employed by the Mets…nevermind, he is probably the cheapest trainer available.
I think we need The Zohan more than Johan.
I know things look grim, but there is no reason to call for more Adam Sandler movies. Lets at least give cyanide a chance first.
Dickey, Gee, Niese, Pelfrey, Santana–all likeable guys!
Striking fear in the hearts of MLB hitters everywhere…maybe not so much.
when you type Alderson, Mets and success in the same sentence, it is safe to say you did not get a Webster dictionary for xmas. i guess they give out engineer degrees in crack a jack boxes now. #fail
You might want to email this to your co-bloggers Coop and Jessep because apparently Alderson cant win here/ Obviously he can as you cleverly pointed out.
Oh boy….Ray Ramerez spent 10 days with Johan.
Did any of you tune into Opening Day at Citi field when they announced the Mets?
Where else but in NY does the head trainer get more boos than any player on the staff?
In fact where else but in Flushing do the fans even KNOW who the head trainer is?
Well there’s something we can agree on. He should have been canned after the Beltran knee fiasco in 2009.
Also, Mets may resign Chris Young during the season if the right circumstances came up. He’s not healthy yet though. Mets are still looking at Ronny Cedeno as a backup SS position. Also, Willie Harris is not coming back with the signing of Hairston.
Who wouldn’t like Sandy’s job.
He has put the Mets team in a position to finish last behind Phillies, Fish, Braves and Nationals. Everyone is expecting that already. He has no need to improve the team so of course he is going to say he has five pitchers he likes – of course he is going to say that the improvement is going to have to come internally.
Putting Santana aside – which is fair considering he has not pitched in 18 months – we have no ace, no second starter and perhaps a third starter in Dickey. The wheels fell off Pelph, Gee and Niese – but perhaps there is one fourth or fifth starter among them. That’s about as thin a starting pitching crew as yoou can have.
We do not have a bonifide starting catcher, no second baseman, a punch and judy hitter at shortstop (replacing the current NL batting champ) and a centerfielder who was about to be released by his own team – plus a right fielder who has played only a handful of games there. Nobody knows how healthy our firstbaseman is.
The bullpen remains a huge question mark.
So yeah, Sandy can say just about anything – because his team is going to finish last anyway.
Welcome to the number one market in Baseball – The New York Mess.
“Sandy Alderson said Santana should have normal spring training….”
Vision of more ticket sales still dance in Sandy’s head. This in all likelihood is just a PR statement. How can anybody have confidence in this kind of optimism?
How in the hell is this a successful offseason? Okay he revamped the pen,nice. What about C,SP and a halfway decent CF. How about mentioning that no pitcher has ever fully recovered from a torn anterior capsule,and Johan had a full incision.It took Wang 2 years to make it back and who knows when he’s going to blowout his shoulder for good.C’mon Craig,you can’t call this offseason a success.
It’s a terrible offseason. Like you said, what about C, SP, and CF? We didn’t make any effort to fix the catching situation, no improvements have been made to the rotation, and I feel we actually downgraded in CF with Torres……And on top of all that, we lost probably our best player to a division rival…..The bullpen is better, but I still think it’s the worst in the division – It’s an awful offseason.
Yeah but at least Jeff Wilpon got a shiny new fire truck for Christmas!
This is a pathetic post….. Cmon…….do you think the people that read this site are complete morons????
Let’s face facts. Money ball hasn’t worked since steroids went out of vogue. Yes, the Mets are broke but I thought the money ball geniuse were suppose to identify good cheap talent thru ” saber metrics”. Now apparently we can’t judge them until they have money to spend.
If Zack Wheeler turn out to be good several years for now than score one for Sandy but nothing else this guy has done too date has shown much acumen.
I guess Sandy and the boys didn’t give Chris Young that full physical?????
You said it, Jon! Does he think the people here are gonna believe the flat out garbage he spews out here.
Maybe after all is said and done and Sandy’s terrible, terrible job as Mets GM will result in the death of this fraud that is Moneyball and saber metrics and hopefully in due time those ideals will be reduced to late nite TV along w/the Sham Wow, Magic Bullet, & The Slap Chop because that’s exactly where that crap belongs.
And the more I think about it the more I realize that this absolutely RIDICULOUS post by Craig Lerner may be one of the worst of all time at MMO. You really have to be a complete MORON to think that anything the Mets have done this offseason could be called a success. Unbelievable.
Yes, because just increasing the payroll year after year with with high priced FAs to fill holes while rushing prospects thru a minor league system recently rated near the bottom of the league certainly led us to the promised land fast enough.
Obviously you have not been reading my recent posts about people offering different ideas and alternative moves to what Sandy has done this off season. You just fall into the category of submitting to any move Alderson makes without question.
And your response to my post here is the safe, clean, commonly accepted “we got no money and everything we tried before didn’t work” phrase which is just another way to second guess your way out of the fact that the Mets have HAD their chances for glory and lost those games on the field.
You never, EVER not try to win and you ALWAY try to compete with what you have, especially when this guy inherited a pretty nice roster to work with!
Please spare me the canned, assembly-line response that your crew is noted for
At what point will you accept the fact that the Mets have no money? Is it that they hired a firm known for bankruptcy consolidations? Is it the whole Madoff thing? Is it that they dropped 40 Mil+ in the past 2 years from payroll? You can sit there and arm-chair GM this team all you want, but sitting there and saying they should have done this or that in hindsight is D-U-M dumb when you refuse to take into consideration that there is no $$$ to pay for the moves. No, I don’t believe every move Alderson has made is the correct one, but seriously man, drop some ice cubes in your 1950′s boxer shorts and chill out. It sucks to live in Metsville right now and unfortunately, that’s where our addresses are. Accept that and ride out the rollercoaster of suckiness that is the Mets at this point.
My suggestions are not all in hindsight. I’ve been saying WHILE Reyes was still with the Mets that I think the smarter way to go forward was to work to sign Reyes and move Wright instead. And I don’t think complaining about the way he’s handled the catching situation and the way he’s spent too much money on the bullpen while ignoring starting pitching is second guessing or hindsight either. I can’t call it a bad move if it didn’t happen yet.
I’ve been saying all along I don’t like the way he’s approaching the off season since last year
You’re just not getting it. How many articles have to be written, how much analysis has to be done, how many posts have to be read before you accept the fact the team is broke?
Hiring the same ‘debt’ consulting team the bankrupt ex-Ranger owner hired still doesn’t convince you?
Accept it. Taking your anger and disgust out on the current GM is just misplaced. If you want to take that stance then you have to hold Omar responsible for the collapse of ’07 and poor finish in ’08. And I’m pretty sure you’re not prepared to do that.
This is all on the Wilpons. They’re responsible for the fact that Omar was fired and SA is here to begin with. They’re responsible for the fact that the Mets have one foot in the bankruptcy court. Quite simply, they don’t know squat about baseball and didn’t initially hire anyone else that did either.
Yep, Omar gave up that HR to Molina, Omar left Daniel Murphy at 3B, Omar suddenly stopped hitting as a leadoff hitter and stopped stealing bases in 07, yep like you said – Omar is responsible for the collapses of 07 and 08. Oh and let’s not give credit to the Phillies for not giving up both seasons and fighting to stay in it and eventually overtaking us. Let’s not give them any credit at all.
And it’s Omar’s fault that losing crucial series to the Marlins and Nats and I think the Marlins in EACH collapse. That’s Omar’s fault too.
It’s all the Wilpon’s fault too. Sandy is walking around with a Halo
LOL.
Hey, you finally learned. Yes, the GM is responsible for the players on the filed. they fail, he dails. It applies to Sandy, and it applied to omar.
the team choked or underachieved for years, and he put it together, and did not make the moves along the way to address holes and got canned for it.
If you actually pay attention to baseball, that is how it always worked.
The success or failure of the team is not 100% on the GM. If the GM builds a team that is good enough to win, and the players on the field don’t get the job done, than that’s not the GM’s fault…..espcially if those teams only fall one games short. The GM can’t do everything, the players have to play up to their ability, the team has to play smart baseball, and what about the responsibilty of the manager and the rest of the coaching staff?
When do you realize that Omar didn’t put a good enough team together.It was on him.When you collapse 2 years in a row,losing to inferior teams like Wash and Fla,not being able to hold 4 and 5 run leads and not being able to score a run off of their brutal bullpens in both years,that’s a team that’s just not good enough and he was given more money to work with than any GM in franchise history.
We are talking about seasons where if one game, one AB, or even one pitch, went differently, the Mets would have made the playoffs(and the WS in 06.) To me, putting the blame ALL on the GM for the outcomes of that is unfair.
Think about Beltran’s AB in the NLCS: Omar had NO control over what happend in that AB.. But the outcome of that AB(an AB Omar had NO CONTROL of) determined of how we view how Omar did! Now how is that fair? If Wainwright threw a bad pitch, and Beltran hit a HR, we’d all be praising Omar for building a team that made a WS. But since the opposite happend, we are all killing him for the team not being good enough……See my point? If things, out of his control, went differently, it would comepletly change how we view him.
The games aren’t decided by the GM, they are decided by the players on the field…..And I’m not saying the GM isn’t important, but what I’m saying is, everything isn’t decided by the GM, and things happen on the field that are out of the GM’s control.
Vinny B. — Yes it is. When you’re in management for any organization, the buck always stops at the top. You can hold a lower level manager responsible, but your manager (e.g., an owner) will tell you that it’s up to you to get everybody working together. No excuses ever unless the player is certifiable and your boss agrees.
a nice theory, but the buck stops with the GM.
If the players did not get the job done, then no, they were not good enough (or the team was not good enough).
Not true. You can put together the best team possible, and you still won’t be garunteed success. You see lesser talented teams beat more talented teams all the time. Like two years ago, were the Giants the most talented team in the league? No. Were the 06 Cards the best teams too? nope…..And another example I’ll use from the 06 Cards would be Molina – He hit awful in the regular season(.216 BA), but in the postseason, he hit .358! Did the Cards GM do that? No. Yaider Molina did. And your saying we shouldn’t give credit to Molina for an amazing turnaround….but instead we should give credit to the GM? The GM had nothing to do with Molina’s turnaround, he couldn’t control how he played, yet because Molina turned it around, we give credit to the GM, even though he had nothing to do with it!
And what about the manager and the rest of the coaching staff? They have no responsiblites? They aren’t responsible for how the team plays?
And again, I’m not saying the GM isn’t important, they are very important, but they don’t control everything.
And if Mookie Wilson K’s instead of hitting that ground ball is it on Frank Cashen? Cuz if that happens Cashen never brings a World Series to the Mets.
Not every case is the same. Sometimes a GM can do a bad job but other times he gets the right players but the team just gets outplayed.
What happened last winter when Sandy said we would get back into the free agent market in 2012 when the Mets would no longer be hindered by the big contractual obligations to Castillo, Perez, Beltran (and a hint of Reyes) and can therefore use that money for other free agents? And what about his comment at the start of the exhibition season that the Wilpon’s financial situation had no effect on his operations?
I remember when asked about Citi Field’s dimensions he defended them and said the Mets would have to learn how to hit home runs there.
And what about Jose’s first injury being “day to day” and not serious only to say a few days later after placing him on the disabled list that doctors told him a trip to the DL was almost unavoidable?
Do I need to add what he said about the steps the Mets would take to retain Jose?
Just don’t know if it is Sandy or his bosses that are not allowing our GM to be more honest with us. But whoever is to blame, it has come to the point that I cannot trust anything that comes out of Sandy’s mouth, even if he wants to be more open with us and just can’t.
Rauch and Francisco were FAs. Just saying. Sandy plays the game that all GMs do. I’m not sure what you are up in arms about. All GMs are basically Baghdad Bobs, calling for a rally of the troops even though there are bombs going off on the TV. The first GM that goes “yeah we suck, we ain’t doing crap, just watch from home” will be cheered by the fans then subsequently be given a pair of concrete shoes, metaphorically speaking.
Was referring not to player personnel but to the remarks being made about the club’s financial stability. Now we are being told a semblence of truth about the financial situation when it was so obvious a year ago while being told we were unable to spend in 2011 but would do so in 2012 when contractual obligations were freed up (now that they are, the money saved is not being reinvested in the team but being used to off-set debt). We were told that the Wilpon’s financial situation had no affect on operating the club and that the team would negotiate with Jose’s agent – neither was the case. We were told Jose would just need a few days rest prior to the all-star break when Sandy knew he would have to be placed on the DL (holding off the announcement as long as possible would mean more tickets for the weekend series against Philly being sold).
2011 was also to be a “transition” year only with the Mets getting back into the race in 2012. When they did, we were told the organization was now “rebuilding for the future” and he broke up the team despite being just five games out of the loss column in the wild card with the prospect of David Wright and Jose Reyes returning from the DL.
When actions become so obvious as to there being a problem for the team to operate properly, as when in a race, it is time for the spin to end and a bit more honesty to be said. As mentioned, Sandy’s hands are tied and we do not know if he is saying these things relunctantly. If he’s playing the P.R. man for the Wilpons this has hurt his reputation, at least in New York. If he’s part of the decision making process with what’s being said, then he is part of the problem himself. We just don’t know.
“Sandy Alderson said it’s “fair” to say Mets won’t sign anyone who commands more than $1.5 million. Still, Alderson said free agent market should still be “robust” since players who made more than $1.5 million in past now may command less.”
Jose Reyes set his $100 million demand before he knew what the market was.
Sandy Alderson is setting his $1.5 million maximum demand before he knows what the market is.
Jose and Sandy are kindred spirits — each wants what they want regardless of the market and the overall economic situation.
(P.S.: Jose got his demand because of the Ringling Bros. & Barnum Bailey attempt to fit fannies into seats in the new Miami stadium, so luck plays a hand in all this. The ownership is just not sure how they will pay him. Jeffrey Loria may turn out to be yesterday’s Wayne Huizenga.)
This was a good off season, given the economic constraints that are obvious and it appears the front office picked the strategy of middling rotation, strong pen, and above average offense since the pen is the thing that can be most impacted without large money or long term contracts. This was rational and well done. There are some young & coming players in AAA to give the team a boost in the second half. Bolstering the bullpen was an excellent job. There were no good FA catcher worth paying big money for at the expense of the pen. The starting pitching is not something that can be fixed by signing a high dollar FA to a long term deal. Every team has weaknesses. This post is rational and nowhere says the Mets have been turned into a great team. However, if the pen can enter games in the 6th inning and close them out as wins, which I think there is a good shot at given the additions made, then they can compensate for a starting rotation that doesn’t measure up to the rest of the division. This team will be competetive and who knows how the aging Phillies pitching & offense, fragile Braves starting rotation and middling offense, powder keg Marlins, or unproven Nationals will do. Injuries happen to other teams too. The Cardinals were not a popular pick last year? How’d things turn out for the sure thing Red Sox? If the key cogs stay relatively healthy the 2012 Mets will be a decent team and one or two unexpected boosts from a guy like Havens or a deadline trade could make for an exciting September. If you don’t think it’s possible then why read about the Mets and perpetually bitch about Alderson. Get a life.
What i still don’t understand is, rich harden a pitcher is still out there, i would take a chance on his arm to help this starting rotation, sandy, wilpons get it together or all of you leave and bring in a owner who gives a damn, and maybe a gm too who’s got a set of u know to get help on this team, cus the owners don’t so sandy man up. Sandy your mind is back in the 80′s frame as a gm. So wake up now it’s 2012, let’s see what u really can do, like i said man up.