MMO Fair or Foul: Mike Piazza’s Mets Legacy

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• Mr North Jersey January 15, 2012 at 11:01 am

  If you read “ultimately disappointment and failure” as not winning a World Series which is how it reads to me then the statement overall is “Fair”.
• NYSOFTWAREMAN January 15, 2012 at 11:28 am

  Piazza isin’t the first “Hall Of Fame” player to play on bad teams. It doesnt matter what the METS record was while he was a MET. He brought class and excitement to otherwise boring METS teams.Valentine once saiod in an interview. That when he rested him on SUNDAY day games after a Saturday night game. He used to get hate mail from people who had gone to the game just to see him.
• Devin January 15, 2012 at 11:29 am

  I guess with Piazza’s upcoming HOF eligibility, it will be open season on him and people will look to knock or diminish his career anyway they can. That statement as it is constructed is definitely foul. He starts off by saying it might be unfair which is exactly what it is. This is a team sport but the easiest excuse in the world is blaming 1 of 25 players for not doing enough to win. I just saw that with Reyes and now I guess we will see it with Piazza too. The thing of it is that the Hall is for individual achievements and what Kenny Rogers did or didn’t do should have no bearing on Piazza. The old standby that we never won anything with a particular player who excelled and gave it his all, is just a weak excuse used mostly by the weak minded and the most ignorant of fans.
• Ghost of omar January 15, 2012 at 11:33 am

  Piazza gave the Mets fans a lot of good moments and his teams were competitive, and made the playoffs two times. I’m sure all the Sandy Alderson lovers would knock him for not winning it all, afterall lord sandy has made winning an impossibility so they have to blame people like Piazza for not bringing home the world championship flag, and its going to seem like eternity before Alderson is purged and the next GM, recovers from his failures. His days were a hell of a lot better than the Alderson days of bringing in Ronny Cedeno and Hairston…..
  • any January 15, 2012 at 11:48 am

    somehow it is not surprising that you managed to turn a discussion about Mike Piazza into a rant about Sandy.

    why don’t you just write a fan post about the evil lord sandy so there is someplace for the Sandy hater crowd to congregate, and leave the other threads alone for intelligent discussion?
    • srt January 15, 2012 at 12:38 pm

      LOL. Please don’t give him any ideas……
• any January 15, 2012 at 11:50 am

  By all the criteria laid out by the HOF, he deserves to be in.

  I still find it hard to believe he was a Met for 8 years. For some reason, it just does not seem like it was that long.
  • Mr North Jersey January 15, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Agreed
• 86mets January 15, 2012 at 12:01 pm

  How the Mets finished the season during Piazza’s tenure has absolutely nothing to do with his legacy or his Hall of Fame chances. Remember, Ernie Banks, the great Ernie Banks, played for the Chicago Cubs and never played in a World Series. At least Mike got to play in one. Nolan Ryan played in only one WS and that was his 2nd or 3rd ML season with the Mets in ’69. He went on to throw 7 no hitters and SO over 5,000 hitters without appearing in another World Series. PIazza’s legacy is just fine IMO.
• Jim January 15, 2012 at 12:32 pm

  I was amazed that the Met’s even made it to the WS in 2000. Piazza and Leiter carried that team on their shoulders. I see the Piazza era more as an indictment of management, which never gave Piazza much support around him in the lineup for the team to win big. He gave it his all, and management wasted his effort.
• srt January 15, 2012 at 12:36 pm

  I could never understand the mindset of ‘but he’s got no rings with the team. If that were one of the main criteria for HOF then no Cub for the last 100 years would be deserving.

  He’s arguably the best hitting catcher to have ever played the game. He’ll get in, just not sure it will be the first ballot. And his numbers are closely split between the dodgers and the Mets so I hope he goes in with a Mets cap.
  • CarlMetFan January 15, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    I was lucky enough to sit down and talk to Mike Piazza when he was with the Oakland A’s. I asked him directly which cap he wanted to go in with — the Dodgers or the Mets. He was ADAMANT that he was going in with a Mets cap. In fact, his exact response to the question was “F*&%ing Dodgers, I HATE the Dodgers.” He still carries a grudge that the Dodgers didn’t sign him to a long term contract and traded him instead.

    Now for those who think his opinion doesn’t matter to the Hall of Fame, here’s a short article that was on the Hall of Fame website a couple of years ago:

    >>>>>>>>>>
    CAPPING THE ISSUE: The choice of which team logo appears on a player’s plaque is the Museum’s decision, though the wishes of an inductee are always considered. As a history museum, it is important that the logo be emblematic of the historical accomplishments of that player’s career. A player’s election to the Hall of Fame is a career achievement, and as such, every team for whom he played is listed on the plaque; however, the logo selection is based on where that player makes his most indelible mark. For example, it would not be appropriate from an historical standpoint if Babe Ruth’s cap had a Red Sox logo, if Ty Cobb’s cap had a Philly A’s logo, or if Hank Greenberg’s had a Pirates logo. However, when instances come up where a player’s career achievements were fairly evenly divided, as was the case with both Dave Winfield and Carlton Fisk, the player is given more ownership in the decision, though the Museum retains the final one.
    >>>>>>>>>>

    And for some further ammo here are some stats comparing Piazza’s time with the Dodgers to his time with the Mets: He played 1/3 more games with the Mets. He had more at bats, runs, hits, RBI, 43 more HRs, went to the World Series and broke the All Time HR record for catchers all with the Mets. He won the Rookie of the Year Award and hit 35 points higher with the Dodgers.

    All things considered (including Mike’s preference) and there is NO DOUBT in my mind that he’ll be wearing a NY Mets cap on his plaque in Cooperstown.
• theonlymaskman January 15, 2012 at 1:22 pm

  I would say the assessment is FOUL. It overlooks all his personal achievements and writes off his role with the Mets simply because the team never achieved a championship, What about this performance statistics, his leadership, his community service, his stature as a role model for youth and his role in the recovery from 9-11? Piazza’s value to this franchise and its legacy is more than just the absence of a WS victory. To write all his accomplishments off in one fell swop is FOUL. I think more highly of Mike than what is written in this article.
• Hodges14 January 15, 2012 at 1:27 pm

  Totally FOUL!
• L.J. Phipps January 15, 2012 at 3:25 pm

  Piazza deserves to be in, there are HOF’s who did not win a World Series and there may be a few that never even played in one.
• Joey D. January 15, 2012 at 4:06 pm

  Yes, the fact that one did not play on a team that went all the way is pointless in assessing any individual player. As others have pointed out, that would even mean Ron Santo would not be going into the Hall next July (albeit, way too late IMHO) and joining such teammates as Ernie Banks and Billy Williams.

  I must admit, however, that the stench of steroids that overshadows that entire era does make me hesitant to believe any top star from that era is free of being suspect. No, Mike’s head size did not get bigger, nor did his shoes. And his performance went downhill the last five years of his career when steroids would probably have had the opposite result. Same with his throwing arm – he had no strength at all by the end.

  What might be Piazza’s fault is not that he indulged in any performance enhancing drugs but that he didn’t — but yet that he and others who did not decided, either through the players union or their own public postures, to keep quiet, do nothing and taking a stand against drug testing in the name of player’s civil rights. What they were doing was protecting their own and those who were shooting up, not thinking of the bigger picture.

  And so this is the result of their own shortsighted actions – a shadow of doubt upon their own dignity.
  • Joe Diaz January 15, 2012 at 4:28 pm

    Joey D, how do you know for sure he didn’t take steroids? IMO he’s a 1st ballot HOFer but I also believe he used roids.He was 35 LBS bigger when he came to the Mets than he was as a Rookie in 93. There’s a reason why guy’s are suspected.Not just their numbers but their appearance as well.I think the one’s that put up HOF numbers belong in regardless.There were pitchers using as well.You still have to have amazing talent.Steroids won’t help an average player become a HOFer.Just see Gulliermo Mota,Brett Boone,Glenallen Hill.IMO,Manny,McGwire,Bonds,Bagwell,Piazza,Palmiero,Sosa,Clemens,A-Rod,Sheffield are all HOFers.
• Joey D. January 15, 2012 at 5:50 pm

  Hi Joe,

  Thanks for advising me of Mike being 35 pounds heavier when he came to the Mets – that indeed makes me think more that he could of. Nobody gets that much heavier since the modern professional athlete is already way into weight lifting, etc. by that time of his career, having started it either in high school, college or the minor leagues.

  In the old Yankee Stadium, ARod hit a home run that landed more than half way up the back wall in the old left field bullpen. I was floored seeing such a shot, even on TV. Now, we don’t know if that was accomplished on his pure strength or strength added by steroids.

  As mentioned, so many it seems were on steroids that many believe the level of the playing field was equal and thus it doesn’t matter. Nor does it make any of them a bad individual. It’s just that, for me, the performances have to be genuine. Like many, I feel Hank Aaron still holds the major league record for most career home runs and Roger Maris the record for a single season. Having seen Mantle, Mays, Koufax…, and Thronberry (LOL) perform at their highest level based solely on their own abilities (greenies only enabled them to stay at full strength – not add to it) I cannot see the Hall open to anyone who had stats pumped up by performance enhancing drugs – even if they were sure Hall of Famers to begin with.

  It’s because what we saw on the field was not real in the physical sense. The quick wrist action by Bobby Bonds compared to Hank Aaron but at such an advanced age baseball wise, McGwire being able to just poke at a ball and have it land in the bullpen, Pudge Rodriguez throwing out a base runner while still positioned on both knees, Clemens throwing a fast ball as hard as Nolan Ryan did before he retired but with the aid of performance enhancing drugs, etc. – all of that was fake.

  So with me the whole era was a blot on the game. Others might not see it that way and I respect that and understand this is just the way that I see it.
  • Joey D. January 15, 2012 at 5:52 pm

    Meant “Barry”, not “Bobby” in the above.
• Lovechilde January 15, 2012 at 11:13 pm

  What is foul is only posting the first paragraph of a post which concludes that Piazza is a sure Hall of Famer, second greatest Met in history, greatest hitting catcher of all time, and, if not in the top 5, easily in the top 10.
• Alex68 January 16, 2012 at 7:59 am

  Piazza should be a HOF and have his number retire as a met…
  • Kay January 16, 2012 at 8:21 am

    Agreed 100%