MMO Fair or Foul: Is Beltran On His Way To The Hall Of Fame?

31 Comments + Add Comment

• jessep January 28, 2012 at 1:25 pm

  I don’t even think it’s a debate to be honest.

  If he played in the 70′s or 80′s maybe… but not in today’s game. Let me give you 2 comparisons

  15 seasons
  1,129 Runs
  2,003 Hits
  328 HR
  1,070 RBI
  .283 avg
  .355 OBP
  .494 Slg

  14 seasons
  1,184 Runs
  1,917 Hits
  302 HR
  1,146 RBI
  .283 avg
  .361 OBP
  .496 SLG

  The 1st one is Shawn Green
  • Nick Pugliese January 28, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    The one thing I have to say about this is doesn’t defense have to be taken into consideration? If Ozzie Smith is going to get into the hall based pretty much solely on defense when you look at Beltran he isn’t quiet on Ozzie’s level defensively, but he can’t be far off and his offense is 100x better.

    Now with that said I think Beltran isn’t HoF material just yet, but when you look at the whole package and not just the bat it is definitely a debate and one that is very close.
    • jessep January 28, 2012 at 2:02 pm

      Ozzie Smith also played SS though a position essentially known primarily for defense until the Alex Rodriguez’s of the world came along.

      I think there have been mistakes made with the HOF. Ozzie may be one of them he may not have been, but that doesn’t mean we should hope for similar mistakes to happen.

      You can’t compare Beltran an outfielder in an era where offense ruled the game to a 1980′s SS
      • Nick Pugliese January 28, 2012 at 2:11 pm

        Eh you can very easily argue Cal Ripken Jr. changed the culture of shortstops and he played during the same era as Smith plus Beltran plays a position that is equally as challenging and one where players can get by with mediocre to subpar offense if they show good defensive skills (Peter Bourjos, Rick Ankiel, Michael Bourn, Austin Jackson, Dexter Fowler, etc.). So I don’t entirely by the era/position argument, but if you want to say Smith is a mistake then I can buy into that argument.
  • Kramer67 January 28, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    This is why WAR renders all other types of statistical comparisons like yours meaningless. WAR considers the entire body of a players career including defense and provides you with an unbiased and objective way to compare players.

    Beltran’s career WAR is twice that of Shawn Green and your comparison made them out to be two peas in a pod which is insulting to Beltran who was a far more superior player than Green.

    This is exactly why statistical analysis needed to advance to a higher level so that comparisons like yours will become obsolete.
• Bayonne Mets Fan January 28, 2012 at 1:02 pm

  Carlos is a very good player but not a Hall Of Fame player. I know in the age of saber they try to use all these numbers to try and rationalize how players who are not HOF types are now suddenly HOF types but unless Carlos Beltran puts up 40+/30+ HR, .300+ AVG, and 100+ RBI seasons his next 3 seasons he’s not gonna be a HOF player.
  • kingman 26 January 28, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Right on the money as always….succeeding on 90% of your stolen base attempts and being the best fielder at your very difficult position for years has no relevance when judging a player–oh that terrible Saber-nonsense and how it tries to evaluate a player beyond BA and RBI!!

    If we could only all have brains as tiny as yours, imagine how simple life would be.

    But no, Beltran, while a great 5-tool player when healthy, is not an HOFer right now.
    • Bayonne Mets Fan January 28, 2012 at 2:10 pm

      that was already taken into consideration – everybody knows he’s a great fielder. Carlos’ base stealing abilities are not gonna come into play when determining if Carlos Beltran is the type of player to get into the HOF but 3 more seasons of the type of offense I laid out just might.

      I know people like you are light years behind and will never possess innate baseball acumen since all if it is learned by reading papers and drinking beer in the upper deck so I suggest that you go back and travel within the circles that suit you the best. It’s not good for you to try and go out of your league, you’re best suited doing what you do best, fulfilling your dreams to be a writer through the platforms that the internet now gives the average fans like yourself
      • Kramer67 January 28, 2012 at 2:14 pm

        So according to you Randy, great fielders and speedsters have no place in the Hall?
        • Bayonne Mets Fan January 28, 2012 at 2:30 pm

          Yeah,

          That is exactly what I’m saying Mr. Caveman Protruding Eyebrows, If you’re a great fielder or possess great speed than you don’t belong in the Hall Of Fame. That is EXACTLY what I’m saying (sarcasm)

          Now go back to doing what you do best and that’s come up with a million different screen names so you can stalk people you don’t like.
          • Kramer67 January 28, 2012 at 2:36 pm

            You have me all wrong, Bayonne. I love coming here and reading your comments. I happen to like you a lot. I rank you right up there with rum punches, neanderthals and sandlot baseball coaches. Those are a few of my favorite things.
            • kingman 26 January 28, 2012 at 3:32 pm

              HAHAHA!!

              Oh man, Bayonne seriously is like the guy who walks around with his face painted, a bright red nose, and long bright yellow shoes, but has no idea he is a clown.

              Wow.

              He is the gift that keeps on giving.
      • Kramer67 January 28, 2012 at 2:30 pm

        You one coached and played baseball, right? Can you name me one player in the history of baseball who had a higher stolen base rate than Carlos Beltran who isn’t in the hall of fame? (minimum 1500 games, 300 attempts)
        • Bayonne Mets Fan January 28, 2012 at 2:32 pm

          You’re not going into the HOF if you have the greatest stolen base rate of all time but you don’t have the offensive numbers to make the HOF, otherwise you can make a case for Keith Hernandez going into the HOF if enough people believe he’s the greatest fielding first baseman of all time.

          Bye.
          • NJstuckinTX January 28, 2012 at 2:46 pm

            I actually think Keith deserves to be in the Hall. He revolutionized the 1B position. Best defender, ever.
            • Bayonne Mets Fan January 28, 2012 at 2:54 pm

              I wouldn’t have a problem either way myself. In my opinion he is the greatest fielding first baseman of all time and should be in the HOF. But it doesn’t bother me too much that he isn’t because of his good but not HOF level offensive numbers. But in his case if they decided to put him in because of his defense, fine.
• XtreemIcon January 28, 2012 at 1:04 pm

  Don’t think so. He’s going to have to put up a age 35-37 season reminiscent of Bonds to get in, and that’s not likely to happen to anyone anymore.
• MetsMan86 January 28, 2012 at 1:09 pm

  Close, but I don’t think right now. He would have to have a 3 or 4 more really solid seasons.
• Mike Mulligan January 28, 2012 at 1:26 pm

  Yeah…definitely not a hall of famer. It Beltran gets in then overrated players like Damon and Posada get a case to go in.
• XtreemIcon January 28, 2012 at 1:52 pm

  I’m going to make a case for Beltran, just for fun. Beltran’s total numbers aren’t there, we all know that. But it’s not because he’s not b een a great player, it’s because of all the time lost to injury. Is injury really a reason to keep someone out? Probably yes, but I wouldn’t argue with someone who’d argue that it’s not Beltran’s fault he’s been so injury prone.

  Beltran’s never NOT been a great player, he just hasn’t played enough. He’s played 13 full seasons in his career. If you take his 162 game average and multiply it by 13, he’s a .283/.361/.497 hitter with 364 home runs and 1.365 RBI. If he’s healthy in St. Louis, he could push that past 400/1,500. Now isn’t that HoF worthy if you include his triple slash, his SB% and his defense, all the charities and other “characater and “integrity” tests he passes?

  I think it would be. Sadly, his career totals won’t get there and it’s the injuries that are beyond his control that will keep him out, not his play.
  • jessep January 28, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    For me, if a guy has played more than 12 seasons in MLB and needs divine intervention to even make a legit case for the HOF… he is not a HOF’er.
    • XtreemIcon January 28, 2012 at 2:06 pm

      I don’t think he is, either, but not because he wasn’t good enough. It’s that same divine intervention that’s going to keep him out.
  • KC Chuck January 29, 2012 at 9:14 am

    5 tool means .300 avg. Mays was CB is .280.
    Closer to average.
• Trade Wright for Nolan Arenado January 28, 2012 at 3:01 pm

  I agree 100% that Beltran is a first ballot HOFer..in the New York Mets HOF…not the one in Cooperstown. I love Beltran, he’s one of my all-time favorites, but, his numbers are not those of a HOFer. He reached 190 hits once (his rookie season), he batted .300 only 3 times, reached 30 HRs only 3 times. Top 5 in MVP voting once. He is a great defensive CFer, but they don’t put people not named Ozzie Smith in the HOF for defense…ask #17. Sure, Beltran will be on the list of 300/300 guys (HRs/SBs), but that won’t get him in. His numbers are basically the same, offensively, as Moises Alou…only difference is Alou hit 20 points higher and Beltran stole 200 more bases. Is Alou a HOFer?
• JoeD1966 January 28, 2012 at 3:24 pm

  Nobody loved Beltran more than I but he’s definitely not a HOFer.Met HOF yes.
• nathan January 29, 2012 at 2:06 am

  If and only if Beltran leads the Cards to another WS will he get attention. His numbers are great for a CF but he just hasn’t been super star enough to get over the hump. Some guys get into the hall just because they were the best hitter on their team for a period of years, Beltran has rarely been that guy. He was usually the second guy, and that doesn’t bode well for the hall.
• theonlymaskman January 29, 2012 at 9:07 am

  “Because there’s more to baseball than just hitting and Beltran stars in these areas while Snider – let’s just say he was a great hitter.”

  WHAT?! In an article about whether Beltran should be in the HOF, you chose to denigrate Duke Snider! Were you alive when Duke played and did you ever actually see him? Actually Duke was an excellent OF’er covering a lot of ground and making difficult catches. He was renowned for scaling a difficult OF wall at Ebbetts Field to steal many a deep drive thereby saving games. He was a master of that and no one came close to his ability in dealing with that wall, not even Carl Furillo. Duke actually had a lot of grace in playing his position, making the comparison with Carlos even more valid. The comparison of Carlos to Duke is a fair one, but don’t try to tell me that Duike couldn’t field his position, because nothing could be further from the truth.

  By the way, I think Carlos should be in the Hall eventually.
• KC Chuck January 29, 2012 at 9:08 am

  I saw CB at KC not run out a ball in front of the plate and hit in to a BP, twice in the same season. In NY he went to the dougout on a pop to 2nd. The fielder then dropped the ball and made another DP. this is why he is not HOF. 5% tools is not a .280 hitter. W. Mays is.
• Alan January 29, 2012 at 10:44 am

  Carlos Beltran has been a very good player but will not be a Hall of Famer He has not hit enough homers or had a high enough batting average. If he had not lost so many games to injury the last few years his overall run producing numbers would be better and might get him more consideration.

  Defensively Carlos was deserving but a center fielder is supposed to be good out there!
  • KC Chuck January 29, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    When at KC, he would make a great catch when on TV and then throw to the wrong base the next night. He did have the tools, but thought he was too good for us and did not try. Johnny D. was a better hustler.
• Donal January 30, 2012 at 9:37 am

  If not for the inuuries, I’d say no contest first ballot.

  Unfortunately, he’ll always be a case of what might have been. which says a lot when you see how much he did with all his health issues.