5
2012
Mets Should Have Moved On Carlos Zambrano
An article by Hojo's Mojo
Thoughts by Joe D.
It looks like the Marlins have acquired Carlos Zambrano for the rock-bottom price of $1.5MM to $2.5MM depending on various reports. The Cubs will be picking up the rest of his $18 million dolar salary. Granted, Big Z is a known hot-head. He hates losing and you don’t want to be anywhere near him after a loss, but there is no doubting his ability, tenacity and endurance on the mound.
Going into last season, Zambrano had a career 3.39 ERA over nine seasons. Zambrano is a winner as his 125 W – 81 L record would attest – that’s a .607 winning percentage.
So what did the Marlins give up for Zambrano? Not much – right-hander Chris Volstad.
Volstad was drafted in 2005 a few picks after the Mets selected Mike Pelfrey. Actually, as disappointing as Pelfrey performed last season. he still outpitched Volstad. In fact Pelf’s career numbers are better than Volstad across the board.
Honestly, I wouldn’t have had a problem with the Mets going after Zambrano. I actually like guys that hate losing as much as he does. You won’t find Zambrano blasting Lady Gaga, telling jokes or playing cards in the clubhouse after a loss – and I like that. Do I condone him smashing water coolers after a bad call by the ump or calling out a teammate after committing an error on the field? No, of course not, but I’m thinking a change of scenery and impending free agency will do wonders for Zambrano.
I would have traded Pelfrey or even Dillon Gee to get a talent like this. It’s a terrific roll of the dice. The Marlins made a great deal and the Cubs did what they had to do. Zambrano was person non grata in Chicago, but watch him have a great season on a team that is flowing with enthusiasm and ready to compete for a division title in 2012.
I would have kept Zambrano from going to the Marlins if I were the Mets… Especially if all he was going to cost you was less than what you are paying Jon Rauch – and a number five starter.
The excuse that we couldn’t afford Zambrano doesn’t work here, not when you just signed Frank Francisco for $12 million dollars. You can’t just stand around with your head in the clouds while the rest of the division keeps improving.
— JD
Original Post 1/4
The Cubs have traded starting pitcher Carlos Zambrano to the Marlins right-handed pitcher Chris Volstad.
The Cubs will pay most of Zambrano’s $18 million contract for 2012.
The deal was first reported by Ken Rosenthal of foxsports.com and is pending physical exams for both players.
Because Zambrano has a no-trade clause, he needs to give final approval, although a source says that hurdle has basically been cleared.
It also needs approval by the commissioner’s office because of the large sum of money involved.
Zambrano, 30, went 9-7 with a 4.82 ERA in 24 starts last season. He joins a starting rotation that would include ace Josh Johnson, newly-acquired Mark Buehrle, Anibal Sanchez and Ricky Nolasco.
Volstad, 25, went 5-13 with 4.89 ERA in 29 starts for the Marlins in 2011.
About the Author: Rob Johnson
168 Comments + Add Comment
NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 24 | 18 | .571 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 20 | .535 | 1.5 |
| Phillies | 20 | 23 | .465 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 24 | .400 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 32 | .256 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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Any of those 5 starters would be the Mets #1. 2012 is going to be ugly. Hopefully, Uncle Bud takes over this team ASAP.
Uncle Bud — the cure that’s worse than the disease!!!
Not all five. J Johnson, A Sanchez, and Buehrle would be, but not Zambrano and Nolasco. Dickey and Niese outpitched them the last two years.
Dickey’s numbers have been better…but at 37, I just don’t trust him to continue it. Nolasco has outperformed Niese in WHIP, BB/9, K/9 in 2010, but not in 2011. Would take Nolasco over those 2 in a heartbeat. Zambrano is more of a wildcard…he’s fiery and borderline insane, but when he’s on, he’s a beast. Would prefer him to Niese…but, if it’s a must-win game I would take Dickey…however, since the Mets won’t have any must-win games for quite some time, I’d take my chances on the younger, far more accomplished, 3-time all-star.
Zambrano isn’t close the same pitcher now than he was in his allstar seasons, wouldn’t you agree? He’s older now, and I think he might have lost a little velocity since then too, not much, but just a little bit can make a big difference – Last year he had 4.82 ERA, 1.44 WHIP, in 145 IP, with 101 K’s, and 56 BB’s – BOTH Niese and Dickey did better than that. And Niese is an up and coming guy, while Zambrano is in decline, so I’d much rather have Niese on my team than Zambrano. And Dickey is a knuckleballer, so the fact that he’s 37 doesn’t concern me as much as it would if he was a conventional pitcher….Dickey has been SOLID the last two years(3.08 ERA), he’s also a great competitor, and is a great guy to have on your team, while Zambrano is inconsistent, and he’s nuts – So I’ll take Dickey over Zambrano.
Nolasco is also very inconsistent….and the last three years he’s had a 4.76 ERA combined. Yeah, he has a lot of talent, but so does Niese, and Niese is younger than Nolasco, and is already pitcher better than him.
Good point, but I think it would have made sense to trade Pelf for Z for everything mentioned in the article: change of scenery, all-star potential, very cheap. Big Z has the ability to be better than Dickey, as good as Dickey has been the past two years.
Yea and i thought Zambrano was older then 30 too, good pickup..he’s now in a contract year so im sure he’ll pitch well. I think the problem with this deal for the Mets is, the brakes are obv on for all contracts, they’re not going to sign him to anything after this season anyway, even if he wins Cy Young i dont see them signing him w/his volitile history esp after Santana big money contract went went bad on them..and if we are in last and this guy becomes a cancer it would be such a headache.
On the other hand if he’s pitching well we couldve possibly even traded him by the deadline for prospects ..anyway solid pickup by a Marlin team making aggressive moves to get better (althou man they have some serious head cases there)..while we’re in accumulate propects/cut payroll,/build best team cheaply around guys already signed-mode,, until furthur notice..
Big Z in Miami. Hanley better watch out.
Hanley is dead meat if he messes up with Zambrano on the mound. We’ve only seen the warm up acts of Carlos. The best is yet to come. lol
Wow. Nuclear meltdown in Miami. The manager, pitcher, and their 3B. Are they building an emotional rehab center or a baseball team?
Nuclear meltdown huh? Figures coming from a guy who loves the Mets GM because of saber and moneyball beliefs and NOTHING to do with wanting to win in baseball. The Marlins have a solid rotation now, maybe the new surroundings will be good for Big Z, at least for the first year.
At least they’re in contention and are trying to win. If your Lord God, Almighty GM who has not made a single wrong move since getting the job would have attempted to try and win last year maybe Mets could have been in contention longer.
Mets fans, especially the clueless saber crowd have NOTHING to criticize about other teams. Especially all the ones in the NL East that have gotten better because they are trying to win.
It was just a joke given the history of those three individuals. Calm down. We all know the NL East has gotten much better while the Mets haven’t really. No reason to bring Alderson or God into this discussion, though…
They have a nice team, I don’t know why everyone keeps making fun of them. Having Reyes and Bonifacio’s speed at the top of the lineup, with Stanton and Ramirez hitting behind them, they are going to score a lot of runs….Their rotation with Johnson, A Samchez, and Burhrle is really good too……I’m not crazy about Zambrano though….But he’s only going to be their 4th or 5th starter, so it’s not a big deal.
…And they have Bell closing out the games too – they have a really nice team.
Vinnie B, — I think they have a very good team too. Maybe the question that Mets fans should be pondering is:
How many games in front of the Mets will the Marlins wind up?
I’d say between 5 and 8. Their team is much improved but they do have question marks: defense, Hanley’s maturity, will Zambrano’s bad 2011 carry over, Johnson’s health, and the egos that they have now collected. They should have won more games than they did last year but things didn’t swing their way. Their team is much better though…
At 3 mil, if lord sandyuhad made such an awful move all the lord sandy worshippers would be screaming that this was the greatest low risk high reward move in history. And you all know it. If he can’t pitch anymore, he can still be a pinch hitter and be better than the crap his lordship is going to put on the metsie bench this year.
If we were a contending team this year then I’d be debating how many games Miami improved from last year with this cast of characters Loria’s collecting.
But we’re not so I’m thinking it doesn’t matter how many games in front they might wind up with.
Bayonne, long time reader, first time responder.
Every time I read something from you, I cringe. Stop bullying people who disagree with you.
I don’t like Sandy and I’m not a sabermetrics fan myself, but all I see is you attack every move.
So let’s appoint you GM. Your owners are destitute. You have 15 million to sign a closer, a couple of other relievers and a few other useful pieces. Oh and I’m sure you’d re-sign Reyes.
So go ahead sir. Let me hear your grandiose plan of how to fix this team with no money. Please. I can’t wait to hear it!
read below Mr. Grandstander
You could have come up with some ideas yourself you know
You are a clown who makes ridiculous baseball statements online and who apparently lives or hails from the armpit of New Jersey.
Get over yourself.
Okay you IDIOT – come up with your own game plan this offseason..or is that too much work for you because you’re too busy feeding grapes to the mouth of your lord, your saviour, your eternal omnipotent leader – Sandy. All his moves are the only moves right? There’s not a hundred other ways that the franchise could have gone both this season and last.
take a HIKE!
If nothing else this season we should have the entertainment factor in the NL East of Ozzie and his merry band of ‘stars’ Loria is collecting.
Marlins on paper are looking real good. If they play as well as they look on paper should be a good year of many peaks and few valleys for the fish though what will be of interest is how the team and Ozzie handles things when and if those valleys do occur.
Marlins get Zambravo for $1.5 million, Mets get Rauch for $3.5 million. Bang for the buck? Marlins win.
This is the type of thing that gets ignored around here these days. If the Marlins are only paying Big Z 1.5 mil that, to me, is a MAJOR baseball story around here because if the Mets wanted to win, and if the were willing to consider this type of move, than they should have made an offer to get Big Z at that price. A lot of times athletes with these type of problems benefit from a new team, at least in the beginning.
That’s why i’m constantly ON the issue that Alderson is doing a HORRENDOUS job with the money he has. Just because you don’t have much money to work with doesn’t mean you are immune to criticism of your moves. Alderson deserves a LOT of criticism for the way he has operated this team practically right to the ground.
My whole off season would have been different right from the beginning. I would have gone after Blanco for 1.25 million. And since we DON’T know what Reyes would have said if he was made an offer I would have went after him, wine’d and dine’d him told him I wanted him to be a part of what I’m trying to do here and try to pair him up with Tejada as the team’s possible future middle infield. I would have attempted to move Wright instead, with a prospect for major league ready SP. I would made the 3B job Murphy’s to lose during ST while at the same time try and get a suitable backup, someone better than this Omar Quintanella. I would have Turner as a backup at 3B, 2B, & OF so he’s get plenty of ABs.
I would have non-tendered Mike Pelfrey and try to package him in a deal for maybe another SP/backup player. I would have not spent 3.5 mil on Rauch & 12 million on Francisco..and if I was able to trade Wright/prospect for SP we’d be in a position to have at least 2 or 3 new SPs including Zambrano. Add to that Dickey, Niese, and maybe Santana and you still have Gee too. Or maybe Wright could have been dealt for a closer/another player.
There are so many different ways that could’ve been chosen to try and win with this team, the ideas are endless.
Instead almost everybody is acting like this is Invasion Of The Body Snatchers and no one is willing to dispute or come up with any other type of offseason this terrible GM could have gone with. I highly doubt Sandy had any of these ideas in mind, I think his mind was pretty much made up on what to do almost the day he cursed this franchise with his presence
I think some of this is just Sandy mishandling the NY media. It’s obvious he panicked a bit with the bullpen when the top closets were coming off the board. And here we are a month later and Cordero, Madson and Lidge are still there. But if he hadn’t picked up a closer we’d all be grumbling.
For me, I would’ve made the Pagan deal, tried to move one of my left-handed hitting corner men for a more reliable catcher. Try to lure Lidge on a one year, incentive-laden deal. I would wait until July to move DW unless I was completely bowled over. You’re kind of selling low there. Agree on Pelf. Non-tender and sign a veteran innings eater that doesn’t lick his hand for 3-4 million less.
I would happily trade for Big Z if Bay was headed for Chicago. Hell, I’d even call it a wash with the salary.
I don’t mean to grandstand, but the Wilpons are tearing us apart!
I would have offered Pelfrey for him, even if we would have had to pay more of Zambranos contract. I would rather have Zambrano for a year and see if he can pitch here than Pelfrey.
Ideas are good to have, but they must be taken with a grain of salt when they lack even minimal baseball knowledge.
Reyes never intended on resigning. The timeline of events is too much to ignore.
“I would have attempted to move Wright instead, with a prospect for major league ready SP.” Not even a little bit possible. Wright has no trade value.
“I would have non-tendered Mike Pelfrey and try to package him in a deal for maybe another SP/backup player.” I’m guessing this a typo? Non-tender a guy, then trade him?
I wouldn’t say Wright has no trade value,just not as good as it was. Typo??? Consider the source. But he’s a self proclaimed baseball guy.
No, he doesn’t have “no” trade value, but not enough to get back major league pictching. Unless you want Chris Volstad. When Wright is traded, it’ll be for pitching prospects.
You’re right about the source. The same guy who intimated Sandy could have saved all that money on minor league deals to sign a competitive major leaguer. Minor league deals!
Metsie and Bayonne provide the entertainment that keeps me coming back here everyday.
Lots of reasons to come back, but the two of them and Alex make up this site’s Keystone Kops. It’s great.
of course, says the guy who LOVES alderson and all his moves and is on record saying the mets priority this off season is a guy who pitched nothing but 4 games for us this past season… when you learn baseball and the way it works then maybe we can debate… get your head out of sandy’s ***
No matter how many times you say I thought Young was a “priority,” it won’t make it true.
Do you want me to get the link and copy and paste what you wrote!!?!?
I’d actually like to see that
XtreemIcon Answer:
I feel the Mets HAVE to sign Chris Young back.
I don’t see the words “as a priority” or “the priority should be…”
Strange.
I would not have added Zambrano to this team, at 3 million like the Marlins are paying or 1 million a guy with an ERA close to 5 and a temper hotter than hell, that’s the last thing a team like the Mets need right now, another distraction waiting for when he would explode and since this was never on the radar anyhow its a dead point.
While the marlins get players with value at a good price, mr sandy the genius almighty saber sanderson in order to get 2 PTBN and 1 single A pitcher needs to ship out 2 all stars and pay their salary…….yikes!
Yeah because what this team needs right now is a guy who gets in fights with his own teammates and has a consistent behavior problem.
No you’re right jesseP, this team doesn’t need players like zambrano, good guys like eamus and hu are the exact type if clubhouse players we need, forget about winning or improving the ballclub, is all about the minors and losing but with good guys we like…
You know what Hu, Emaus and Zambrano all have in common? None of them are on the Mets.
Moving on.
well, volstad was every bit as good as Zambrano last year. So unless you think big Z is going to have a major rebound year (that would fall into the hpe and pray catagory), it is pretty much a wash.
This screams of a “take a flyer on damaged goods” move.
Since when is an era close to 5 value? If the Cubs are willing to pay the bulk to unload this distraction what does that tell you?
He was suspended for 6 weeks but let’s complain SA didn’t go after him yet yesterday the word was how dare SS sign a guy suspended for PED.
Since 2003, only two other righthanders in baseball have a better ERA than Zambrano. ERA close to 5 is a poor way to describe his talent. If that’s your concern than we should cut Pelfrey immediately, he will get double Zambrano’s salary but he is a sweet kid who likes to lick his hands.
What about the last 3 years? What about guys are his age historically?
How exactly did he help the Cubs?
Maniac – if this was a few years ago, I’d be in agreement, in fact there was a time I’d hope he was a Met, but no more, he’s too volatile and his skills have tanked over the past few years. This would NOT be a good fit.
I like how the guys who go on about club house chemistry, clutch play and leadership are the same ones getting on Alderson for not making this deal. The Cubs have to eat almost his entire salary to make this deal happen. Doesn’t that raise some red flags?
There’s no doubt the Marlins have collected a ton of talent and will probably be really good for 2012, but it is too volatile a situation for it to last. Logan Morrisson’s twitter account is going to be the least of their problems in the near future.
Its about donal finally gave credit to omar, because omar tried to get a good clubhouse,the difference between sandy and omar being omar cared about talent and all sandy gives a crap about ids bringing in guys like him, zombies…. talent irrelevant, fire non existent. zombies. sandy, fred jeff saul and bud. and the manager has to be a yes man who changes his mind convincingly to the press when sandy tells him to….
The “change of scenery” argument. Has that ever worked? Maybe with a guy who just wasn’t performing, but with malcontents, who is the last guy who truly changed his attitude?
How many times did we hear how a change of scenery was good for Manny Ramirez, Milton Bradley, Gary Sheffield, Armando Benitez, etc etc.
We’re not talking about a guy who had one bad incident that got out of hand. Then you might convince me of the “change of scenery”.
We’re talking a history of this kind of behavior. A guy who has a world of talent but can’t get out of his own way. A guy who got into a fist fight in the damn dugout.
Uh, no thanks.
We’re talking about a guy who literally quit on his team. Seriously, what are some of you smokin’?
SRT: so wait, is ok for a GM to quit on his team and not get criticize but if a player does it then is ok to point it out!?
Seriously, Alex…what are you talking about?
Are some of you really thinking if we didn’t trade Beltran and KRod we could have made it to post season?
Respectfully again….what are some of you smokin’?
From what I’ve been reading on here over the past year no matter what this FO does, some are always going to criticize each and every move. Me? I look at each separately and weigh each on it’s own merit. No one is infallible. Every GM makes some boneheaded moves and every GM makes some brilliant ones. Too early to tell on this FO.
What I do know is the Mets are flat broke. Anyone who reads here with enough regularity knows I put the blame solely where I feel it belongs: the Wilpons.
I am so glad we didn’t get Big Sleaze!
He will be the same cancer in Miami as he was in Chicago: watch and see. He may pitch a good game now and then, but I am sure he will have a crappy year overall and do nothing for the Marlins (save cause problems). Yes, it’s called a prediction. Cubbies gave this A-Hole so many chances. Really, you would want this guy to be a Met given how uncompetitive we will be? Totally logic-defying!
Miami baseball should be one of the more entertaining sports circuses in 2012.
We need good guys like Jason Bay and David Wright on this team, not malcontents like Hanley Ramirez, Carlos Zambrano, Michael Young and BJ Upton.
If he hasn’t signed yet we should go after Jason Marquis or Kevin Millwood.
With fans like you, who needs championships and winning seasons?
I agree with you on Upton, Ramirez and Zambrano ( I still rather have him for this coming year over Pelfrey), but not Young. I would take Young in a heartbeat. He has switched postion three times so far in his tenure with Texas and done well.
I love how this failed on so many levels.
Jason Marquis and Millwood are both subpar -.500 pitchers we have enough of those also.
There’s a lot we don’t know here and may never find out. Remember, he is close to Ozzie Guillen, to the point where they had dinner together a few years ago during the same weekend of the White Sox-Cubs series, which is a much more fierce rivalry than Yankees-Mets mainly because of all the South Side/North Side racial overtones involved. Zambrano has a full no-trade clause, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility for him to have told the Cubs I’m not going anywhere except to Miami to play for Ozzie Guillen. The fact that Chicago managed to even get Volstad out of that might just be a testament to the effectiveness of Theo Epstein more than anything else.
I have a feeling about halfway through the season, Jose Reyes is going to ask himself, “What did I get myself into here?”
Has crossed my mind as well.
Reyes was a homegrown Met and a fan favorite in NY. In Miami, he’ll be just another star on a team who has a very fickle if more non existent fan base.
When someone asked Reyes about the fans and coming back to play in Citi on the opposition, he commented something to the effect that the fans in NY are great, he’s never had any problems with them, it should be all good. I’m not sure which way this is gonna go but after reading around, I think there’s enough fans who don’t care for the way he ended his season, coupled with him leaving that he’ll wind up hearing some boos. I’m not saying they’ll be deserved – much like Beltran’s in his first year wasn’t – but I’m willing to bet some fans won’t see it that way.
So you’re praising Theo Epstein for getting Volstad from in this deal? What about the Marlins GM for being able to acquire Zambrano and have Cubs pay most of his salary while continuing to turn the Marlins into a contender again?
These saber guys really have it all a$$-backwards. A sickening bunch that gets worse with each day. Wins really isn’t an important stat to these hacks in more ways than one
I’ve never seen such unobjective views before. If Alderson had 8 straight winning seasons instead of 8 straight losing seasons I could understand the blind loyalty to him. But what are they seeing in his 8 year record of failure that warrants such worship? Every move the other NL East teams get blaster by the Alderson shills while all of his get high praise. And these lolly-gaggers have the gall to complain and get on their high horses?
maniac, i wonder the same, but as we have seen, is more the saber crowd that likes what’s going on and defend him jusst because, they have no reason whatsoever yet they come up with all kinds of excuse as to why things don’t get done here, last year was the worst offseason by a GM i’ve seen in a while, BUT it was omar’s fault, then the saber crowd started drooling about all the crappy acquisition he made, starting with BRAD POS EAMUS and arguably the WORST PLAYER in the history of baseball ching lu hu, as the season started and chris young had 4 starts 2 good ones and 2 mediocre ones he was appointed the cy young after being out for the season by sandy apologists, he then went on to wave the white flag by trading krod for crap and beltran for a single A pitcher who’s 5 years away. fast forward to this offseason things are getting worst but is not sandy’s fault still, is the wilpon’s fault now, forget about having 3 gm’s at the helm that can’t even come up with a decent trade the mets problems are all the wilpons’ and not sandy’s…. he’s the best thing that has happened to the mets since we won the championship in 1986… funny how most of his apologist were about 4 years old when we won….
It is unbelievable, it really is. It really is like some kind of Invasion Of The Body Snatchers syndrome where NONE of these people question Sandy’s moves. Remember when we used to discuss off season moves and how it related to trying to win and compete as best you can for the next season?
Those days are gone..as long as this HORRIFIC GM has the job. This guy is possibly doing the worst of any GM in Mets history and people are turning a blind eye to it.
Maniac – every move that is made in MLB comes with malcontent from the ANTI Sandy people, every move, as if any of these moves were even possible.
Stop calling people with common sense as “Alderson followers” because none of this has to do with Alderson at all.
Unobjective you say? Kinda like no matter what people post that makes them a Sandy Lover, Worshiper etc….. come on Maniac it’s getting silly now.
I’m not praising Theo Epstein. I’m suggesting it’s not a bad move if he could get Volstad based on my hypothesis that Zambrano was only willing to go to the Marlins (and thus left Theo with no leverage.) If that’s not the case then the deal is not a good one for the Cubs.
Or you can say this deal by Michael Hill (Marlins GM) if everything works out could result in a tremendous season for Big Z and help the Marlins go far into the playoffs.
Instead you chose to talk about Theo. Why? Cuz you love saber and moneyball first, baseball 2nd.
I’ve read “Moneyball” and think there’s a lot the book and SABR misses, so I’m definitely not a SABR guy. I meant Theo had no leverage if things are as I suggested). If Theo was the guy with more leverage (such as if Zambrano’s no-trade list was never submitted, a la K-Rod) and the same deal was made, it would be Hill I’d be praising for the deal, like you suggest.
shut up and go back to worshiping your god Sandy, sabergoon
Actually, you don’t get it Bayonne (shocker right)
You equate every move made in baseball to “saber” or “not saber”
First of all, the Marlins GM is a Harvard grad, something you and your friends often knock “ivy leaguers”
Secondly, the reason why this move is better for the Cubs has nothing to do with sabermetrics
-Volstad is 24 years old, the Marlins now have a pitcher who has to be coddled just to make sure he doesn’t punch a teammate in the face…
and they have him for 1 year. 1 year, that’s it. The Cubs had Zambrano on the disqualified list last year, he does more damage than good to that franchise.
The Cubs got rid of a cancer and brought in a kid who can pitch and is 24. That’s why it’s a good move. Nobody in Chicago is going to worry about what Z will do next, because its Ozzie’s problem now.
You always preach that baseball is about more than stats right? Yet you IGNORE what a personality like Zambrano can do to a team.
“South Side/North Side racial overtones” are not really at all involved in the rivalry between Cubs and Sox. Not spoken like a person who knows much about the city of Chicago. Sorry.
The rivalry is about two areas of the city with very different cultural and historical perspectives and developments.
I went to college in the midwest, have been to Chicago many times, and have many close friends and family still living in the area. So you are correct because my knowledge is based on my impressions being a New Yorker making numerous visits to Chicago rather than someone that’s spent significant time living there.
I asked a friend from Chicago about your reply, who agreed with your statement “The rivalry is about two areas of the city with very different cultural and historical perspectives and developments.” However, he also said it’s hard to separate the racial demographics of Chicago from the cultural and historical aspects of the city itself, which we both thought was detailed very accurately in Barack Obama’s “Dreams From My Father”. (That’s probably a more involved discussion than what would be appropriate for a baseball blog.)
But I appreciate you keeping me honest nonetheless!
It’s absolutely true that the SS of Chicago is black and the NS white–historically speaking from the 1950s-1990s. Having said that, major sections of the SS have always been white–Irish, Italian, Slav, Greek, etc. Of course, today the most rapidly growing ethnic population is Mexican.
I believe, however, that Chicago remains a majority black city–if we only include the demographics of the city proper.
And it goes without saying that racial antagonisms are a major part of Chicago’s history, too–kind of like so many other American cities.
I just don’t think that black people have ever constituted enough of a fan base for either baseball team to make this a significant part of the visceral rivalry between Sox and Cubs fans.
I’ve decided that around here, Alderson and crew cannot win. I barely blinked when I saw that the Marlins traded to get Carlos Zambrano…a contract, btw, the Cubs have not been able to move for a few years now. Carlos Z is a sandwich short of a picnic, and people are UPSET that the Mets didn’t get him? You know what would have happened had they figured out a way to trade for him?? All the naysayers would have said he’s a nutjob, bad for clubhouse chemistry, and that Sandy only got him because he was “cheap.” Seriously — trading young talent that you can build around for a guy that the Cubs couldn’t wait to get rid of??? Can I have some of what y’all are smoking?
You can’t win around here.
Couldn’t agree more, Coop. I really do think that Alderson exercised a baseball brain in passing on Zambrano!
The Marlins gave up someone they can build around??? Really?
Better risk Chris Young $2million or Zambrano $2million?
Who is freaking out here??
You, the poster child for freaking out, Mets Maniac – please re-read what I wrote with half a brain – The METS would have probably have to trade someone to build around, not the Marlins. I could care less who the Marlins have traded. I’m talking about the Mets and what they would have had to part with. The lunatic fringe is rearing it’s ugly head around here.
I’m trying to calm your ass down and put out the fire. Take a chill pill. Nobody was giving up someone to build around, NOBODY! This was a classic dump by the Cubs. If you think Alderson would pay Matt Harvey for Zambrano, you really lost your marbles. Even I know he’s not that stupid.
Actually Met Maniac, I was a little out of line with you so I apologize. I don’t see where I wasn’t so calm. People are jumping off a bridge about Carlos Zambrano…a guy who walks people just as much as Oh Pea, and is more a danger to himself and his teammates. MMO is becoming a place for the lunatic fringe to get together and I unfairly lumped you in that. We’ve had discussions here before, and I know you’re one of the good ones
Well Coop maybe you should write an article and suggest other moves that could have been made to make the Mets better this season, and last season as well. Or maybe you’re of the lunatic, moneyball/saber fringe that EVERY move Sandy has made since arriving should not be questioned and has been the only move that could have been made.
Maybe the Mets could have given up Pelfrey for Big Z. You just don’t know that cuz you’re jus assuming that the Mets could not have made a decent offer for Big Z without giving up any of their major prospects. You just don’t know. And it’s mighty arrogant of you to suggest that everybody must be smoking something because a lot of people have a LOT of different and alternative ideas to what Alderson is doing. Heck you won’t even consider that maybe, just maybe Alderson is doing a HORRENDOUS job since becoming the GM.
You won’t even consider that so talk about any lunatic fringe, cuz that’s all you do. Instead you’re another one who’s brain has been fried since Alderson become the GM. I also think your attack on Maniac was unprovoked and after watching your alleged interview with On The Black I dont’ think you should throw any stones.
Hi bubbie – didja miss me? Clearly – if you are still watching OTB interview from a year ago, I wonder if you still have those candles lit in my honor in your basement. BTW I will warn you that I’ll be on there again to promote my book and running the marathon this year – don’t watch!
A bad season for Young (who made $1.1 million, as I’ve corrected you repeatedly) means his shoulder gives out and he misses most of the season.
A bad season for Zambrano is a physical danger to those around him.
Coop writes: I’ve decided that around here, Alderson and crew cannot win.
Yeah lets pretend that jessep, Donal, Kay, srt, Craig Lerner, Clayton Collier, t agee, Joe Diaz, Nester and a dozen others I’m not remembering, dont swoon over Alderson everyday here. Your goal is to see this site become 100% slanted toward Alderson like all the others!
Maniac, after reading this: Coop writes: I’ve decided that around here, Alderson and crew cannot win”
my friend, i am entitled to say she’s 100% correct.. he cannot win… 7 straight losing season as a GM backed that statement…
LMAO!!! Awesome!
Coop turns out you’re right, Alderson cant win!
So you will continue to ignore the larger picture around SA and crew, and what their limitations are, that they are here as basically “FEMA workers” – there’s a larger financial picture here – does it make me happy? No, it doesn’t but it is what it is. Meanwhile if you look at the payroll of this team, Johan Santana and Jason Bay are taking up a ginormous amount of payroll for little to no production. And your hero in Omar Minaya was responsible for that. What do you expect him to do? I’ve slammed him for not moving Mike Pelfrey prior to 2011 and for not trading Angel Pagan earlier (prior to 2011) but glad there was a warm body to be had. All I see here on this thread is -blah blah blah blah blah blah shoulda got Carlos Z blah blah blah blah blah I’m a horrible fan blah blah blah blah blah blah shoulda got a head case that makes Pelfrey and Oh Pea look sane. I basically just come here to point and laugh these days. Sad.
You generally don’t have to pretend reality.
And Maniac, maybe Alderson “cannot win” because –
HE’S CONSTANTLY MAKING BAD MOVES!!!!!!!
Maybe if he made a host of good and great moves to keep this team in contention, even with the low budget, we’d be happy and singing his praises too. I liked the Pagan for Ramriez/Torres trade. If he makes a good deal I’ll say it. But MOST of his deals have been catastrophically bad. And I happen to think that he’s using a lot of sabermetric influences to make this horrifically bad decisions. He’s being outsmarted by every other GM out there on a consistent basis and the fact that people are defending his every move is unheard of in my entire life of watching baseball. The Mets TEAM will be here long after this awful GM is gone and people should be rooting for the team, not the GM
Bayonne, no, how do you justified getting the worst player in baseball history in ching lung hu??? seriously, not even sabermetrics can understand that move!!!
So let me ask you this Bayonne – a real question. SA needed to make some moves to undo some of the damage that has been done – I’m not just talking about Omar Minaya, but going back to even the Al Harazin days where we truly believed that making a splashy move to make a splashy move was the way to go. It was still that way recently, the last move that was a headline catcher was Jason Bay. Jason Bay! I’ve said on record – even here – that I thought SA was crazy for not trading Angel Pagan when his stock was highest and that not trading Mike Pelfrey at the same juncture was nuts. I know you said you applauded the recent trade – bully for you. But what other trades has he made that was so horrible? As for signings, I’ll give the Carrasco signing was an odd one – but we’re not talking a chokehold type of signing. I’m not justifying it – it is what it is. What has been so horrible around here? Am I missing something? What’s been horrible is that we have an ownership group that is waiting for Nero to fiddle before doing anything to make this franchise a reputable one again, and you claim others can’t see the big pic. You say po-tay-to, I say…
This is a perfect example of what I’ve been saying. NO ONE IS SWOONING, no one, that is what the anti-SA people keep saying,
If you don’t use the word HATE against him, it’s automatic swooning, worshiping etc….
Believing that the NY METS should not have been part of Zambrano is not SWOONING over Alderson.
You really need to stop with the ‘us vs. them’ mentality. Only a handful of you have gone on record with this. The rest of us are just happy to be looking at the big picture for a change.
If you read up you’ll clearly see I’ve gone on record as saying:
‘From what I’ve been reading on here over the past year no matter what this FO does, some are always going to criticize each and every move. Me? I look at each separately and weigh each on it’s own merit. No one is infallible. Every GM makes some boneheaded moves and every GM makes some brilliant ones. Too early to tell on this FO.’
****************************
Stop with the childish school yard clicks.
Maniac you need to lay off the bong because I’m not a Sandy worshiper.I’m just a little more educated to be calling him the worst GM in franchise history after being on the job for a little over a year.You have to be a fkn moron to call any GM the worst after a year.I’m a realist and understand the situation the franchise is in.The morons who think he took over a contending roster are just that morons.If this team does not show improvement by the beginning of 2013 then I’ll join the morons in bashing Sandy.Until that time I’ll wait and see how he rebuilds the franchise.Some of you guys need to get laid once or twice and shut the fk up already.
and by the way, i am on record saying the marlins WILL WIN THE WORLD SERIES THIS YEAR, and the mets will be out of it by mid may… hell, late april this thing might be over, but hey, alderson had a good day and that’s all this people here seem to care about… forget winning or improving the ballclub, is all about how alderson had a good day after having 2 HORRENDOUS off season…
I’ll go on record that the Fish are assured of at least a wild card. Once they’re in the post season anything goes.
Hey Alderson shills – how may games will the Mets win in 2012?
Maniac, but hey, in 3 years the marlins will sell and trade all the players acquire, so they’re content with that, they’re thinking what will happen 3 years from now instead of focusing on what’s going on now….
Zambrano, Hanley, and Ozzie in the same clubhouse is a reality show waiting to happen. Mets should’ve moved in on Big Z? Haven’t we been back and forth on this issue for like the past 3-4 years? NOW we should’ve moved in? Jeez louise, the morale here is sinking lower & lower.
Don’t forget Loria, who coddled Hanley and sided with him over the managers and has no problem taking his gripes to the media.
So, was there a previous post here saying the Mets should be going after Zambrano back when the Cubs were first trying to move him? Or any of the last 3 years?
Donal, is that intended for me?
What does that have to do with my putting up for debate whether the Mets should have made a move on Zambrano the day after he was traded for a guy who was no longer in the Marlins plans?
Some of you really get too uptight over some of the things we put up for debate on MMO and take such insanely extreme positions on each side of the debate. Really, this is a baseball site for debate. Usually we debate current events – like Zambrano. You like taking a risk on Zambrano or don’t like it, tell us why and move on. Let’s talk baseball, winning, improving the team.
Donal, here is a post I wrote in 2009 about trading for Zambrano. I don’t know what it has to do with what I brought to the debate this morning, but never let it be said I don’t cater to my readers.
Enjoy:
It’s eerily similar to what I wrote today which I guess says a lot about my consistency.
I am very intrigued by Zambrano, and despite the occasional headache he may give you, there is no doubting his talent and ability.
Zambrano would certainly fit the bill as a number two starter for the Mets, but do the Mets have the pieces to make it work for the Cubs?
Or, like Fennelly states, will a third team be needed to complete the trifecta that can land Zambrano in Flushing?
Zambrano, 28, had a down season as did most of the Cubs players in 2009. Still, he posted a respectable 3.77 ERA and struck out 152 batters while walking 73 in 169 innings pitched.
In his career, Zambrano has a 105-68 won-loss record; a .607 winning percentage, along with a 3.51 ERA.
He’s also pretty handy with the bat and won his third Silver Slugger after clubbing 4 homers last season. He has a career batting average of .236.
With Lackey, Halladay and Wolf all off the table, I would love to see the Mets make a big effort to land Zambrano who I believe is better than any other options left in the free agent market.
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/could-carlos-zambrano-be-heading-to-the-mets.html
Joe D, the wrong people get banned in this site….
I dont mind the jabs I get from Donal or anyone else and I deal with snark very well.
Plus I love arguing about the Mets – I do it in real life almost everyday.
Some people cant argue and debate without resorting to insults and that’s when it gets ugly and leads to banning.
Be good now, Alex. lol
good thing you don’t deal with donal, jesseP, agee, kay and others at the same time….
Have I ever made personal insults or called you names? Ever?
Joe, kind of meant for you. I did do a search and found that article you linked. There were some others that mentioned him in passing but didn’t really express too much love for the idea.
I’m also pointing out that there wasn’t much noise for it then. And that most of the people getting on Alderson for this are the same ones who go on about “leadership” and “clutch” and “team chemistry” and “intangibles”.
And I can’t remember the last time a “change of scenery” worked for the long term for a malcontent. It always seems like the guy gets to a good start and behaves himself, but falls back into old habits soon enough.
Absolutely, as I mentioned today and back in 2009, that’s the risk. The guy is an absolute hothead. But for two million and given his potential, upside and all that jazz, imagine if he Johan comes back strong, and Dickey does what he does, and Zambrano (in a much smaller park) stays out of trouble. I like the way a Johan, Zambrano, Dickey, Niese 1-4 looks for us. It may mean 85 wins instead of 70 wins.
Yep,
And I remember when there was talk of Zambrano for Ollie & Castillo as a way of trading bad contract for bad contracts and absolutely would have done it despite Big Z’s rep.
Sure I don’t like guys who don’t hustle and are clubhouse cancers. I was against obtaining Manny Ramirez for that very reason. But that was because IMO i thought the Mets could win without him at that particular time. The Big Z case is different circumstances.
And because of the Mets financial situation are in I’d take 5 Big Z’s in the rotation at that price. And with the Mets offense which isn’t that bad..i’d do it in a heartbeat. Why? Because it would give me the best chance to….and here comes the the latest hot button word which saber geeks do their best to rationalize their way out of ……WIN!
0-2 and 29 IP in 5 playoff games for his career.
If Alderson had made this deal, you’d be crying about bringing a clubhouse cancer to the team.
There is no proof that Zambrano even wanted to come here or that he would accept a trade here. so this is all moot.
Chris, that is not the issue, the thing is everyone else is nmaking moves and getting better, especially on our division, yet, we have 3 gm’s in the front office, THREE!!! and they have convert this team into the worst team in the division, but a lot of this ppl here turned the other way or praise all his moves as if they’re the right moves instead of seeing the big picture
Big picture? What have you and your fellow cult of stupidity members been saying? “Zambrano will be good for this year” Everything you want is now now now. Spend spend spend today and to hell with the consequences. We’ll figure out tomorrow when it comes.
2012 is not the big picture. One season is the exact opposite of the big picture. Big picture is 5 year blocks. Big picture is the major league roster + the farm.
You and rest a remedial education couldn’t find a big picture if you were trapped in the Louvre.
says the parrot…
oh, that put me in my place. Such a man of letters.
Ohhhh so you need proof first that Big Z would have wanted to come here. You want players to let teams know that they all want to play for their prospective teams now? Is this something new?
And since you have absolutely NO IDEA if it was possible or he would even care about coming here you’ve come to the conclusion that it’s a moot point. Why? Because you will defend Sandy to the death.
Baseball and trying to win first? Thing of the past.
“Ohhhh so you need proof first that Big Z would have wanted to come here. You want players to let teams know that they all want to play for their prospective teams now? Is this something new?”
Not at all. Perhaps you have heard of this thing called a “no trade clause”. Zambrano has one.
Players with no-trade clauses approve or disapprove trades after the two teams make a trade, unless they have a list which in Zambrano’s case none has ever been reported.
And you think the teams make these deals blindly?
“hey, lets make work out a big deal, create a big media hoopla, but not make sure it will actually work. That can’t end in disaster.”
I’m fairly certain they tested the waters with him. “Hey, Carlos, ever wanted to be Dan Marino’s neighbor?”
I would guess that at 2.5M some teams would take a chance with Zambrano and giving Epstein the benefit of the doubt that he took the best deal he could I would think he reached out and listened to many team calls on Zambrano and the result was him to Miami. How much is that due to Zambrano’s unwillingness to waive his no trade if at all I can’t say but could it have impeded possibly other better trades for him? I don’t know but I could see that having happened.
Again maybe the Mets did call and couldn’t work something out or maybe they never wanted him to begin with. Either way in the end he is on his way to Miami now to see what he does with a new change of scenery. He gets $19M if he finishes in the top 4 in Cy Young votes so there is incentive for him to perform well.
I’m willing to bet this FO had a fair idea of just what teams Beltran would approve a trade to last season….
Well I know for a fact Beltan gave the Mets a list of potential teams in May. I heard of no such list with Zambrano, but if any of you have leave a link and I will update the post.
Why do you always redirect the conversation?
We are talking about this deal – the Zambrano deal – the two teams made the deal – it was presented to Zambrano – it became official two hours later.
You want to call that operating blindly for a dramatic flair, feel free.
It’s not rocket science.
I’m not trying to redirect it. You entered in an idea as if it was already an accepted fact. I don’t agree with the idea that the Cubs had no idea if Zambrano would be willing to go to the Marlins. They would have been humiliated had he declined. They also would have been in an even weaker position to deal him.
You don’t think they made sure their bases were covered here? Would you have struck the deal with the Marlins before approaching Zambrano?
Umm.. they already knew he’d we his no trade clause
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6674588 June of 2011.
“If they come to me and want to trade me, obviously it’s because they don’t want me here anymore,” Zambrano told the website. “I always say that. I’ll be here until the Cubs decide to trade me.”
“I won’t be like other players with no-trade clauses and say, ‘No, I want to stay here, I want to stay here,’ ” Zambrano said, according to the website. “I’ve heard rumors. I’ve already talked to my family. They said, ‘It’s OK. If you think it’s good for you, if you feel you want to be traded, do it.’ “
meh, this is the same guy that announced his retirement not too long ago. What he says to reporters while pissed off needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
I’d need something a little concrete. Or at least ask him specifically if he’d play for the Marlins.
I think everybody knew Z would accept a deal to be honest with you. I don’t see why he wouldn’t. He clearly hated his time there towards the end, and Miami is a nice place to be for him right now
However I will say that I am sure either Hoyer or Theo called Z when they took the job and felt out the situation. There’s no way they’d trade him away not knowing he’d accept. Sometimes that happens, but in this scenario, no way
How is saying no one knows if he’d even come here DEFENDING Alderson?
My god you people must have failed vocabulary in school, so many words misused over and over.
If you want proof, you might want to check out TheTurthIsOutThere.com. Over here we debate baseball and that includes baseball rumors, hypothetical trades, and baseball opinions. If you’re looking for proof all I can offer you is a shot of Johnnie Walker Blue.
Oddly enough for such a common phrase you would think there is a TheTruthIsOutThere.com site yet there is none.
Really? Wow, that sounds like a great domain with many possibilities.
To further the point that Coop made above… the problem here is not the moves the Mets do not make; it is the people who expect every single move to be made by the Mets. It’s a classic case of being so naive about the Mets situation that it is ridiculous. The Mets are not financially stable, the Mets are not talented on the field enough to compete with Philly, Atlanta, Florida or probably even Washington. Carlos Zambrano & Henry Blanco are not going to change that.
Some of you want the Mets to make mvoes for the sake of making moves. As if the Mets trading a young P for Zambrano would have solved anything?
You can’t fix a disaster in a day. This isn’t 2005 anymore. The Mets are not at the head of the class in the NL East, and you simply cannot force that.
The best part is that we have people here who claim to be old school baseball fans. The game is bigger than the players. This is New York, the toughest media market in the country. Yet those same exact people are complaining right now because the NY Mets did NOT trade for a guy who
-Gets into fights in the dugout with his catcher
-Argues balls and strikes consistently thus putting his offensive teammates in a bad spot
-Sometimes when he argues he’ll even give a fan a souvy by throwing the ball into the stands
-Throws a coniption fit in the dugout smashing gatorade containers with a bat
-Starting fights with team captains (Derek Lee)
-Then my personal favorite gives up 5 HRs, then throws at Chipper Jones, gets ejected and then quits on his team by cleaning out his locker and telling team officials he’s retiring.
I mean this is the ultimate proof that it’s not about the game anymore it’s all about the GM to some people here. You want Carlos Zambrano a KNOWN cancer to his previous team to come here why? Because in your fantasy world everything gets better when he changes uniforms?
Randy fricken Johnson couldn’t handle the media here. You’re telling me what you’ve seen from Zambrano in his past shows you that a change of scenary was needed, to an even TOUGHER media market?
Get real.
Is this addressed to me? I am extreme? What is going on with some of you lately? Can we talk baseball here?
Carlos Zambrano is ultimate proof I hate Alderson? My Fantasy World?
If I wanted to address it to you, I would have said Joe D:
It’s addressed to every single person who contributed something to this blog that thinks Zambrano should have been a Mets target. You really need to chill and stop thinking everything I say is a slap in your face. If you agree with Bayonne, Alex, Maniac, Ghost, Va Met Fan, Metstheory22, KMaxx, and Anthony Marte, here then yes it is in response to you
It’s an absolute joke that anybody thinks it would have been a good idea. A joke. This is complaining for the sake of complaining.
Zambrano is a cancer in the clubhouse. There’s no denying it. None. His talent hasn’t been worth dealing with that cancerous attitude since 2007, and to even for a second think something would change because he left the Cubs is even funnier.
Maybe we can go get Milton Bradley too?
You are speaking in absolutes and it only fans the flames. To say that everyone that would take a chance and roll the dice for $2 million on player like Zambrano translates into absolute proof of hating Alderson is silly and bizarre.
There are 29 other MLB teams and most have 100 blogs like this one each, and I would venture to say that there’s many a debate today speculating about their own teams getting Z. It’s been debated on MLBTR threads for two years for crying out loud.
Does that make them Alderson haters too or are they just talking baseball?
With one post you insulted thousands of fans for simply considering the possibility of giving Zambrano a fresh start. Many players got fresh starts and did well over the years. It happens.
You’re free to dislike Zambrano and oppose acquiring him, but to start hurling insults and make wild accusations like a raving lunatic to anyone who disagrees with your stance is not called for. I expect more from you than that.
No I’m speaking in that every single player transaction in the sport leads to the same exact people here complaining that the Mets didn’t make the move. And every single move the Mets DO make, those same people are 1st to lineup and mock it. It’s every transaction.
People here are abandoning everything they preach about “how to play the game,” when they look for Zambrano in a Mets uniform. Zambrano hasn’t been a great pitcher since 2007. He’s been injured and on top of that when times get tough he implodes. What is SO GOOD about Citi Field right now that tells you or anybody Zambrano would suddenly change his personality?
It’s not like he had 1 incident… when the Mets signed Francisco I said I still think of the chair incident… but that was 1 thing several years ago. We have the same people here who just a few days ago got all over Alderson for signing a player who once tested + for PED.
I’ll gladly take a guy who tested + 2 years ago over a guy who has been a repeated PROBLEM to his team for the last 5+ years. That type of guy does not change.
The Yankees are in desparate need of a SP, why didn’t they get Zambrano?
The guy is Bobby Bonilla and Vince Coleman wrapped up into 1 very explosive (get it) package… and yet for some reason, people want him in NY… why? So the Mets can maybe win 78 games? 2006 Zambrano is not taking the mound in NY.
How is he worth the constant walk on eggshells mentality? What does he do for young players if when Derrek Lee the teams captain made a mistake, he had to be separated from him in the dugout? What happens if that is Tejada or Davis?
This constant need to have a roster of 750 active players is exhausting.
Thanks for the backup Jessep, I would have thanked you earlier, but I was too busy baking a pie.
Couldn’t agree more with this.
Don’t know if Mets ever made a call or not on Zambrano but even if they did Zambrano would of had to waive his no trade clause and there is nothing to suggest he would waive it to play for Collins as opposed for Guillen a man who is considered to be his friend.
My curiosity is how would trading for Zambrano make the Mets any better? The rotation is not good at all, however, Zambrano at this point could only be counted on to be better than Pelfrey at best and last year that was not even the case. Yes Pelfrey makes more than what the Marlins are paying Zambrano but aren’t we pretty sure that the Cubs would have wanted the exact same as Pelfrey’s salary in return? They were not going to pay extra to get Pelfrey, that makes no sense. So trading for Zambrano would have gotten you a 1 year 6M deal for a guy who actually found a way to pitch worse than Pelfrey last year. How does this make sense at all? How is this even about Sandy to start with?
You dont improve the team in one fell swoop. Wouldn’t you consider Zambrano on a pure statistical and ability level an upgrade over whoever our number 5 starter would be?
As for the salary if that would have been a sticking point than absorb the difference. For example Pelfrey for $6 million or Zambrano?
It’s just something to talk about besides Darryl Strawberry’s wife, Mt. Kilimajaro and Citi Field wall updates. lol
Wait………..what happened with Straw’s wife?
I don’t know about his current wife, but I saw a story recently that said his ex-wife has no claim to the deferred money the Mets are currently paying him.
Meh……..I was just yanking Joe’s chain. I don’t really care much. I don’t see why she would, but…….meh.
No I do not consider his 130 innings of baseball with an ERA over Pelfrey’s with his other baggage an improvement over our current #5… Pelfrey. Regardless of where he slots in the rotation he is currently the 5. At best it’s a push. Why take that risk for a push?
Waiting on the fringe of insanity response to my post…. I already know Joe’s take. Someone actually blaming Sandy for not doing this please explain how it would make the team better using any sort of logic at all.
Fun fact I just heard. Carlos Zambrano had a higher OPS last season than almost every current New York Met including David Wright, Jason Bay, Daniel Murphy, etc. lol
The Marlins lost 90 games last season and finished in last place.
In ONE OFFSEASON they made their team into a legitimate contender for the post season which I expect they will make.
These so-called Mets fans who say the Mets couldn’t do the same thing are just apologists for an inept front office and a crooked ownership group.
The Marlins did far more with far less than the Mets, and they did it in one offseason.
LAmetfan, don’t worry, someone was needed to take the last place. mark the mets down for a 69-93 season this upcoming year!
With far less? You mean opening a brand new tax payer funded stadium that they are the primary resident of means nothing? Being the most profitable franchise in MLB for years now means nothing?
OK
‘tax payer funded stadium’….One that’s now coming under scrutiny as an investigation is launched and all books/deals on this are to be handed over.
Anyone who thinks the Mets financial situation is in the same ballpark as the Marlins just hasn’t been paying attention. We’ve damn near paid out out more money to DL or released players in the past 3 years than the entire Marlin payroll for each of those 3 years. That probably doesn’t include those from way back when or in the FO that are no longer here but still being paid.
I’d really like to know where you think the Wilpons could have coughed up money to sign Reyes, Buehrle, Bell, etc. etc. I’m still not convinced Loria won’t go after Fielder.
Oh, ya, I forgot the SEC is looking into that.
Still, Loria has turned the biggest profit in MLB for years. He gets more from revenue sharing then he ever spent in payroll until now.
He just sat around, let the money pile up until MLB almost held him at gun point to spend.
Very true. I guess he had a long range plan after all. One that solely seems to be about money and nothing but the money.
Is not going to surprise me one bit when after raking in the profits from his brandy new stadium being packed for a couple of years and enjoying the low front end of some of those contracts he ups and sells the team for a huge profit.
My oh my. Such angst for a hypothetical that will never come to fruition. This site has the Marxists on one side and the Nazis on the other. They both want to send each other to the ovens and conquer their imaginary world. Both consider themselves infallible which only means a never ending supply of well placed insults and mindless babble. The smart Mets fans are the ones that don’t get involved in this strife over the battle for absurdity. We just laugh as these internet ruffians ramble like idiots in an asylum arguing with their shadows and reflections.
The problem is commenting at all with any attempt at rational thought lumps you in one side or the other instead. I, like SRT, don’t like picking sides to start with. I would rather look at things individually. This place is becoming more like a damn political site with two sides just trying to catch each other in some mythical fallacy. Time for me to update my blog to where I can comment on it from work again. This place is really going nuts.
Yes, nuts indeed, but unlike those institutions that keep the most insane patients in padded cells and away from the general population, over here even the the ones who hold the keys add to the lunacy and feed their psychoses.
It is in it’s simplest form just a lack of respect for expressing a difference of opinion. And it goes both ways. The site is all about all Fans and all viewpoints but when you have name calling and stereotyping and making it about a us vs them lines tend to get crossed and things get personal and common respect gets thrown out the window as a result often times.
This.
And please do. It’s getting a little lonely over there lately.
I know and I enjoyed this one for a few days but now it seems the inmates really have taken over.
If you get a chance after work, read Dirty’s latest post.
Good to see some of the original guys back.
This site is like this because the new writers turned it into this. All we ever did before these saber clowns got here was talk real baseball and have good discussion. The worst thing this site ever did was enlist a bunch of 90′s Met fan saber geeks. And I predicted that was a huge mistake the day they did that.
So you liked the discussions better when it was a bunch of people who all thought the same way and never saw a different side to things? That makes sense.
You should stay out of it. You were the one that set this site ablaze by fighting with the readers who have supported this site for years. You would attack all the readers who have been posting fan articles for years and now there are none to be seen. Hey MMO where are all you fan posts or whatever you call them? This is the only site where one of the the admins ignites fights, insults, instigates. I dont agree with Lerner and Xtreem but at least they dont go out of their way to start a flame war like you do. You got several good contributors banned as well because they called you out. You should stay out of it..
Wow – that could possibly be the most arrogant and ignorant post all in one. What makes you think that you speak real baseball? Who ever said it had to be all sabre or non-sabre, since when can’t the two marry? Seems like 30 ball clubs are doing it well, but you can’t assimilate? Pity
Maniac – I really thought a lot better of you……..
OMG are you kidding me? You are leaving me this comment? You? Back in October me, you and Donal made a deal to stop all the snark, antagonizing, instigating to help MMO. I stopped commenting or arguing all through Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year. My comments dipped from 25 a day to 10 a month. I kept my word. You and Donal were right at it again in three days, fighting, complaining, arguing, instigating, etc. I even left both of you each a comment reminding you of our deal the week before Christmas, but that went ignored. You know when I started commenting regularly again? On January 2nd after I couldn’t take it any more watching you, Donal and other run amok all over this site or ganging up on anyone who disagreed with you.
I even told Bayonne and Alex to zip it on a few occasions and told them to chill out when they got out of line. Heck I even told him he owed you an apology first week in December and you thanked me.
For you to leave me a comment as you did takes some nerve. You’re a lady so I’ll just leave it at that.
Who ignited or tried to ignite something here with snark after Bayonne was talking about walks with that other guy:
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/01/mets-re-sign-scott-hairston.html
Oh and you know what, three months ago it was you who said “Dont you remember the great conversations we used to have before all this saber stuff started. Why can’t we try to bring that back.”
We agreed to not only refrain, but also to police our friends. I did that, you and Donal didn’t and you were the first to abandon the deal.
Why are you calling me out for saying everything changed when the Help Wanted – Sabers Wanted sign went up on MMO. The truth hurts, but it’s still the truth.
The Road to Wellville indeed.