18
2012
Looking Back At The Trades Sandy Alderson Should Have Made In 2011
An article by 
Last season I thought I knew what was going to happen. I figured we probably would not be in contention for a playoff spot, but I was excited about the possibility of reloading at the trade deadline. We had guys like Beltran, Reyes, Dickey, Izzy, Hairston, Byrdak and Krod. All of whom I felt had the potential to bring back something from a team in contention who wanted to bolster their starting staff, bullpen, lineup or bench. Right now the plan is the future, so this only made sense right?
Sadly that was not the case. We held onto everyone with the exception of Krod and Beltran. Alderson made a great trade for Beltran in getting Zack Wheeler who became arguably our top prospect overnight. Aside from that I felt he did a disservice to the team and the future by not unloading guys who would ultimately not be here in 2013 when it’s all supposed to turn around.
His mantra since day one has been to stay competitive now, while trying to address and fix the financial and minor league system issues at the same time. It was somewhat successful last season in that we stayed competitive until Frankie got traded. After that we couldn’t hold leads and the hope of a .500 season diminished.
I am not saying that we could have gotten top prospects for everyone on our roster, I am just saying that we could have brought in younger talent. With young talent you just never know, not all good major league players were top prospects. One thing that happens at the trade deadline is that teams are willing to pay much more for players they need to bolster their playoff chances.
Did we really need to keep Jason Isringhausen to tutor Parnell? It didn’t work, and it may have cost us one or two decent young players we could have gotten for the the bullpen or for depth.
It’s nice to have Byrdak back this season, but he is 37 years old and not part of the future. A quality lefty reliever is a very valuable piece to a contending team and they usually pay a premium for it.
As one MMO writer mentioned in a post this past weekend, RA Dickey should be gone as well. He is way too old to be part of the future, and if we are in full rebuild mode, why have we not traded him for a few young prospects. He has a VERY, VERY affordable contract at $4.75 million for what he gives you and would have been in high demand.
Even players like Hairston or Harris could have brought back a few players to be named later in a deal. It’s worth it because you know they are not going to be here in 2013 and you never know, one of the players you get back could turn into something.
A few of these players are back this season so hopefully they perform well enough to entice another team to inquire about them. I just hope that Sandy does the right thing his year. I don’t care about being competitive in September if we have no shot at making the playoffs. If it’s about the future then make it all about the future. Don’t do it halfway because you think the fans won’t come once we trade everyone away. The fans aren’t going to come regardless, unless they just want to come and watch a ballgame or see a prospect who got called up.
For more of my insights come visit us at the newly redesigned Bigapplemetstalk.
About the Author: Dan Valis
I am a life long New Yorker who was born and raised to be a Mets fan. The ups and downs of being a Mets fan is what makes following this team so much fun, but at times so frustrating. It is painful to lose, but when we win it is so much sweeter because we have waited so long to taste it. In addition to being a Mets fan I am also a long suffering Knicks and Rangers fan, only to be saved by the great Super Bowl run by the New York Giants in 2007. For more of my insights come visit us at my blog BigAppleMetsTalk or you can follow me us on Twitter @BgAppleMetsTalk.
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I think you have to be real careful when you’re looking to deal players away. You can’t just trade them for the sake of trading them. Especially if it means the result is either rushing up young players or making the big league club look like an expansion team.
Trading guys like Harris, Hariston, Izzy, Byrdak etc doesn’t do anything unless somebody out there totally blows it with their own scouting reports of their own minor leaguers.
With Dickey, I think people over estimate the value of a knuckleball pitcher. I’m not saying he couldn’t help somebody, but there are teams out there who know nothing about a knuckler… some catchers out there who would have issues catching him. You can’t just throw him on another team and say “good luck Miguel Montero.”
Could Dickey be traded? Yeah absolutely, but while some people contend the Mets never ever meant to keep Reyes (which if thats your opinion that is fine) you can’t empty the team of everything before Reyes hits free agency.
The Mets have to be hoping 2 things happen this year: Santana is healthy and proves to be worth a top 3 rotation spot, and Bay turns it around.
People here focus on Wright, but Wright’s contract doesn’t hurt as much as Bay or Santana.
Wright staying on this team gives fans SOMETHING to look forward to (assuming he turns it around), and gives the franchise a hint of credibility during a tough time.
You don’t have to think about him holding your finances hostage if you can find a way to get something of value for Bay and Johan.
Agree with you Jessop. And it does not matter who the GM would be at this time. They would have to be doing the same as Alderson. As much as it hurts us now, he might have to trade Santana, Dickey and Bay if they show anything. I would also put Pelfrey in there and see if anyone would be interested in him at mid season, cause I would not bring him back at all. I have been saying we should have traded him for three years.
Wright gives us all something to look forward to? Why dont you speak for yourself and not include the rest of us in your lunacy?
Getting something of value for Santana and Bay?
You’re delirious.
K Maxx: Whether you like it or not, Wright is a popular player with this fan base. Reyes was as well, but guess what… he is wearing a Mets uniform so time to move on. Wright is the only player on the active roster who has a fan base big enough to at least keep fans engaged, ESPECIALLY if he turns it around this year.
And as I said, the hope is that Bay and Johan prove to be worth something. I didn’t say tomorrow they will get value back.
K maxx, don’t you know that this site is jesseP’s way or you lack baseball knowledge?? if you don’t agree with him you’re wrong, he’s always right, and if he says that wright is popular and will make us go to the game, then guess what? you better show up and support wright ok.. (Roll eyes)…
this guy is delirious.. don’t pay no mind.. he doesn’t even go to games and talk about support for the mets and wright, not even when there’s free tickets to go he goes… he’s the worst, seriously…
Paid by THE CORE….
Alex, don’t you think you could change a couple of words in this and say the same thing about yourself?
Paid for by Peter Pan, Tinker Bell and other people from Neverland.
IF we are able to do it, you never know what you get back. A Rafael Santana, Nelson Cruz, Alex Ochoa or an Ollie Perez. Who knows how low level minor leaguers will develop.
Hope we can afford our players as they improve in coming years.
I like what you’ve said here in concern to trading R.A.Dickey. I also feel that we as fans should see the reality of what has transpired over the last few years. Despite many good trades and acquisitions, the Omar Minaya days ended badly with the team getting stuck with two of the worst signings in their history. The fans were infuriated and rightly so. Add in the disappointment of not beating St Louis in 2006, two poor finishes in 2007 and 2008 and the organization was moving backwards. The final straw was the Madoff scandal and all of a sudden ownership had a new ballpark which was nice but had many issues and declining attendance.
Fred and Jeff had major troubles and all they have been trying to do is weather the storm by bringing in a new regime that would TOTALLY RUN THINGS WITHIN THE FINANCIAL LIMITS THAT NOW EXISTED. THERE WAS NO OTHER WAY FOR THEM.
Yes, we would love to have a new owner who could be throwing out zillions to bring in high prices free agents and who would invest even more to scout and develop a new regime of prospects but that is not a reality. As long as the lawsuits don’t cripple the Wilpon’s permanently, they will be able to weather the storm until the new regimes plans begin to show dividends. The things that we have heard from Sandy Alderson about the Reyes situation could be expected. He works for the Wilpon’s not for the fans. Could he possibly have publicly said that the team was going to be terrible for a few years? Could he have said that we have no intention of losing Jose Reyes which would have only driven the price higher?
The hope for 2012 as I see it is that we get our injured guys back (Ike Davis, Daniel Murphy) and that our other youngsters continue their growth as well . David Wright and Jason Bay will rebound and enjoy the more reasonable dimensions of the ballpark and that our young pitching prospects step up this year and be ready to help in 2013.
I think that Sandy is doing a great job under the circumstances but realize that we are gonna finish last and hopefully play hard all year and win 70 -75 games. That would be quite an accomplishment for us to be proud of.
The Mets have to be hoping 2 things happen this year: Santana is healthy and proves to be worth a top 3 rotation spot, and Bay turns it around”
so they can be traded and the owners saved more money to keep the team and sandy gets some suspects and then hope and pray they pan out???? the mentality is not about winning or being competitve anymore, is about saving money, getting draft picks and “prospects” to see what happens. but no, we’re getting franchise players and not conceiding 2012 and 2013
Yes Alex, that is exactly why. If the Wilpon’s are not going to sell this team, your only hope as a fan should be that they get OUT of their financial mess. The only way to do that is to cut expenses for a little while until they get out of the negatives and out of the entire hole dug by the Madoff situation.
Whether you like it or not, the Mets are the least talented team in the NL East with or without Santana and Bay. Those 2 guys are not getting any younger, and if they appreciate in value it will help the Mets long term.
Prospects do bust, but the more you have the better chance you have at building a CORE (a real one) of young talent to build around.
Why, so they can continue to go about business without having a clue as to what it takes to build a sustained championship caliber team. Fred still thinks this is 1950. Come to the ball park, sit in the sun… I can do that in Trenton for a tenth of the price.
Brian: I’m not arguing that Mets fans should WANT the Wilpon’s to continue owning the team, I’m saying if they REFUSE to sell and are given all the leash in the world from MLB to avoid it then what choice do you as a fan have? You have 2
Don’t go to games, don’t watch on tv, and ignore their existence in hopes your ticket and lack of viewership loses them enough money that they sell
or
Remain patient and recognize if the scenario you don’t want is going to happen anyway then better to have the financial aspect fixed quicker and hope they bounce back.
Then worry about the management. The problem with the Wilpon’s was NOT their lack of spending, it was their involvement in baseball decisions. Cross bridge A before you get to bridge B.
for what?? why would you want to have good players to form a core? so sandy can turn around and trade them again? or let them walk when they hit FA? seriously, stop it, the more sandy saves the wilpon the most likely they’ll stay as the owner, is this what you want?? having sandy as the GM of this team for more than 2 years is a mistake, hell, having HIM as GM is a mistake, he’s obviously more concern about the wilpon’s bank account than to build a winner…
See Alex, you’re not thinking rationally. First of all lets just say a young core was built around guys like Harvey ok?
Players wouldn’t hit FA until 5, 6 years minimum from the time they hit the bigs and have enough service time. What exactly have you seen that tells you Sandy Alderson will be the Mets GM in 2018?
“the more sandy saves the wilpon the most likely they’ll stay as the owner, is this what you want??”
Actually it is, IF I have no other choice. If MLB is doing everything in their power to help the Wilpon’s MAINTAIN ownership then why wouldn’t I want their immediate finances to bounce back so that down the road they can spend more wisely? Their problem isn’t that they spent, it is WHAT they spent it on.
What is the alternative option as a fan? To sit back and complain about everything and still have no control over who owns the team? Would I like the Wilpon’s to sell? Absolutely. But if that isn’t an option then why center my entire feelings on this team based on something that won’t happen?
well, to me that seems a lot like neverland.idon’t feel it will only take a little while.i don’t like putting my hopes into a maybe.i hope it does work,the only problem is sandy’s model doesn’t work it will set us back a very long time.
Here’s the problem with thoughts like these, how do you know that these players were not shopped and ultimately brought no return? As for Dickey? what does age have to do with anything? You have to have someone to pitch the games and for the cost Dickey provides value. It’s not always just about tank the entire team and play the youth… you have to have youth to play.
If Harvey were to show this year that he will be ready for 2013? Dickey becomes tradeable. Until then I would rather not see Miguel Bautista make 30 starts.
I’m pretty sure Alderson said Dickey and Isringhausen would not be shopped or traded.
That being said, if I remember correctly, Izzy was shopped and the Mets did him the courtesy of asking him if he wanted to be traded and he said no.
Wilpons were afraid everybody wold scream they were hoisting the white flag and that the fans wouldn’t come to the ballpark. Better a few million than a headstart on rebuilding which they still won’t admit is underway.
Wilpons were afraid everybody wold scream they were hoisting the white flag and that the fans wouldn’t come to the ballpark.
The white flag was already hoisted once they traded K-Rod. I’m sure the Wilpons had nothing to do with Hairston and Izzy not being traded. I mean come on.
You don’t rebuild on prospects obtained from trading Willie Harris.
I don’t think we’re privy to what players the Mets might have shopped, what the potential returns might have been. Maybe they did and got no offers or maybe the offers just weren’t worth it. We’ll never know.
I thought I heard some team out there inquire about Dickey in Sep. Was it Boston? Now that might have been an intriguing trade….although Dickey is one of the few reasons I’m hoping to enjoy some Met baseball this year. I would have hated to see him traded last year and truthfully, we had no SP left in Sep when Niese went down. I’m thinking right now Dickey is probably worth more to this team than he is for most others.
I too hope Bay and Santana turn it around enough to be shopped for some legitimate prospects in return and/or some salary relief. I have to agree with Jessup above….as much as some of us probably hate it, the sooner the Wilpon’s Mets are in the black, the sooner we can get back to building a sustainable contending team. As long as they operate in the red, I see no hope for this team.
Exactly srt We can cry and moan all we want, but if the reality is that the Wilpon’s will go to their grave before letting go of this team AND MLB is allowing them to do so… there’s absolutely no sense in wishing they continue to be financially unstable.
If they can get into the black, then its about roster management. It’s about spending money to make $ and its about spending wisely so that 5 years from now they aren’t stuck with aging/injury prone players clogging up the depth chart and finance sheet.
Honestly, why wouldn’t the MLB allow them to? This “Uncle Bud” helping the Wipons stay in power is so overblown. The only reason the MLB stepped in with the Dodgers is because that owner was basically stealing from the team. With the Wilpons as long as people are loaning them money and people are investing in the team, while it stinks, they have every right to keep the team.
Well trs86, its a valid point. But we only know what we’re allowed to know. On the surface it appears Selig is doing everything he can to help the Wilpon’s remain in ownership right?
Can that change? Yeah. But hoping for it to change is hoping things get much much worse. I am just saying if it looks as though everything is pointing towards them keeping the team then as a fan I want them to get their finances in order.
Well, I believe not trading Reyes was the only bad move on his part and Sandy Alderson knows it too. I think he felt trading every single player he had on the team would hurt not only the team (obviously) but destroy the fan base. I expect to see 2-3 Mets to be on the move this season…Pelfrey, Wright and Dickey seem the likely candidate. Wright could pull in some serious packages (Rockies have exactly what we need) while Pelfrey COULD but only if he manages to bounce back (again).
The Reyes debate is pure speculation. We have to remember that Jose had been injured and was not at the top of his game at the deadline. Also, at that point there may have been a serious consideration of retaining Jose not to mention that you should be gaining 1st roundish picks for Jose. Also, not going to lie but you have to factor in cost. How much money would they have lost in trading Reyes?
From July injury until trading deadline:
.250 .271 .393 .664
Only 12 games but if you are a GM how much are you willing to trade for a guy that you are not even sure is recovered and may miss the rest of the season.
As good a season as he was having, they didn’t have that crystal ball to see how July was going to go down. Reyes was lifted in that 2 July game against the Yankees for hamstring problems and was then placed on the DL some days later. He didn’t return until about 11 days before the trade deadline. Those 11 days he got off to a very slow start and his numbers weren’t that good. It was obvious that hamstring was not healed. I’m not sure SA could have got as good a deal for Reyes at that point that he got for Beltran – who had been healthy up to that point.
Prior to that 2 July injury SA went on record when asked about being sellers that it all depended on the standings in a couple of weeks. Now, that might have been just lip service for the fans but again, in order to maximize Reyes’ trade return, he would have had to raise the white flag prior to 2 July and have traded him before he got hurt.
Agreed.
has anyone told you RA Dickey is a knuckleball pitcher with control ????????? Wakefield just retired at 45 !!!!! RA IS 37. HES A PUP IN KNUCKLE BALL YEARS. he has been one of the top 10 pitchers in era in the national league the past two years. he presents an unorthdox challenge, provides flexibility in long extra inning games, fan favorite, great leader not to mention cost controlled for a top 10 pitcher. YOUD BE A FOOL TO GIVE HIM UP.
I am sure if they were blown away they would consider it. However, because he is a knuckle ball pitcher the Mets will not be blown away and because he is a knuckle ball pitcher he is worth more than the return… LOL It’s a circle with RA which is why he will remain.
Some people questioning my luv’s failure to make trades? He did it on purpose. By not trading these overpaid brats like Isringhausen and Capuano, my luv did the right thing. If he traded them he’s have to be paying someone else. By getting nothing he helped uncle freddy’s wallet. What else should he do? Do some of you really think my luv is here to mkae the Mets win. NYers have a winner in baseball. You all don’t need two. And thank my luv for that!!!!!Don’t get greedy NYers.
I have been a faithful reader of this site for about 5 years. Ever since i friend requested big Joe D on Myspace. i have really enjoyed watching this site grow to where its become. You have alot of writers i truly enjoy reading….but what has become a serious pain in the ass is this Alex68 character. As Joe D commented a few days ago, he is becoming a real drag. its always the same crap with him. He always turns everything around to fit his obnoxious little arguments. He is a big baby, and its getting real old. Honestly, him and his buddy Ghost of Omar make me not even wanna log on anymore.Its the same shit everyday with him.,,,blah blah blah… look, we are all disappointed and frustrated at the current state of our beloved Mets, and the fact we just lost our most popular home grown player ever, but you just gotta suck it up and stop acting like a baby. You are always posting very negative comments, and arguing for no reason at all.
Come on Joe D, boot this thorn in our side the fluck outta here
The entire premise of this article is incorrect. The Mets are not currently in rebuilding mode; they are in downsizing mode. The goal of rebuilding is to position for winning at a future date. The goal of downsizing is to reduce cost for financial survival. Rebuilding to win is not the current objective. Eliminating salaries to reduce cost is the current top priority. Secondly, who says 2013 is the year of the turnaround? Without rebuilding, that is not possible. The excessive leverage that burdens this organization will be there for years to come. Without the sale of the team or the bankruptcy of the owners, that weight will continue to prevent rebuilding. Without financial soundness, this team will not compete. Any discussion of player moves to emphasize rebuilding and winning is moot because that is the last thought of ownership and their main messenger at this point. The only strategy in place now is keeping the owners above water and that means not spending money. It will be years to turn this around without a change of ownership.