Comments on: Is 200 Innings The Be-All-End-All For Starting Pitchers?

By: Des

Des — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 00:09:57 +0000

Jessep — I was wondering who would be the first to plead poverty. Anyway, come visit me and we’ll go to some spring training practices and games. At the games, I’ll buy the beers. Actually I like the practices more, because of my proximity to the field and the players. With the games, I’m seldom as close.

By: Donal

Donal — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 20:52:10 +0000

Well, that assumes there is an actual definition of “innings eater”. Which is part of what I am contending.

By: Des

Des — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 20:44:43 +0000

Check out the definition and meaning of “persuasive definition.” I think our dialog is heading in that direction.

I’m ready for a different discussion now.

By: Donal

Donal — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 20:32:17 +0000

I said I exaggerated a bit. But, look at the guys who get just under 200 IP last year.

Also, no one calls good pitchers with lots of innings “inning eaters”. “Innings eaters” seems to refer to back of the rotation guys who aren’t that good but can not die on the mound for 180+ innings.

By: Des

Des — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 20:22:26 +0000

Donal — Who was the last pitcher who threw 200+ innings and had an ERA over 6.00?

It was in 1998 and the guy was Pedro Astacio of Colorado. He pitched 209.1 innings and had a 6.23 ERA. He allowed 245 hits. It hasn’t happened since. By the way, 200 or so innings pitched represents about 14% or 15% of a typical team’s total innings. So it’s a big deal that saves a lot of wear and tear on a bullpen.

By: srt

srt — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 20:09:23 +0000

Not disagreeing with what obviously are the facts you provided.

I’m was just commenting on the ’200 plus innings eater’ moniker they’ve tagged Pelfrey with.

By: Donal

Donal — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 20:02:48 +0000

You’re right, I exaggerated a bit for effect. Also, if you expand your search to 190+ innings, you get 18 more pitchers, 2 of whom are Mike Pelfrey and AJ Burnette.

Anyway, perhaps I am misstating my point. Obviously, the best pitchers are getting the most innings but no one calls Justin Verlander an “innings eater”. Its just that we also have a group of pitchers who are racking up 180-200 innings who aren’t that good and seem to have a reputation of “innings eater”. Pelfrey is apparently among this group. Kevin Millwood and Livan Hernandez have been in that group in recent years.

“innings eater” seems to be another one of those ways of describing a player who isn’t very good but people talk up for whatever reason.

By: Des

Des — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 19:54:34 +0000

Jessep — The guy with the most innings who had an ERA over 6.00 was John Lackey. He pitched 160 innings and had a 6.07 ERA. He was Number 98 in total innings pitched. So on average, each major league team had more than three guys with more innings pitched. Lackey had less innings than Mike Pelfrey and Dillon Gee.

By: trs86

trs86 — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 19:49:07 +0000

So let me get this straight. You never justify a player with numbers?

By: trs86

trs86 — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 19:46:44 +0000

Good point, but Pelfrey seemed to be more bipolar than ever last year which is good and bad. You could tell early when he had it and did not have it. That was different from in years past where he could be rolling and give up 5 in the 5th.

By: Des

Des — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 19:46:04 +0000

Jessep — “I doubt you can really name a SP who hit 200+ innings and had a 6 ERA right? Maybe you can…”

I just showed guys who pitched 200 or more innings don’t have high ERA’s. I’m not sure who you’re addressing.

By: trs86

trs86 — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 19:43:38 +0000

Here is the problem. Many of you guys try to view him as something more than a 5th starter. However, if you look at him just as that you would be much harder pressed to find a #5 with those kind of stats. Now if you want to say that the Mets viewed him as the ace… blah blah blah… point is that looking at what they have going into next year he is the #5 those numbers are comparable.

By: Des

Des — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 19:41:54 +0000

Alex68 — Thanks for keeping me off of your ‘dislike’ list. As for my disliking anyone, that’s not so. I have different views than a couple of people but I don’t dislike them. For example, if one of our regulars asked to borrow $20 bucks or so, I’d give it to him/her with no questions asked.

But Alex, none of the foregoing means that I share all their views of in some cases, their method of disagreeing. To mix policy or baseball views with like or dislike is mixing apples and oranges.

By: Des

Des — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 19:20:10 +0000

Donal — You said “A guy can have an ERA of 6 and still be an innings eater.” NOT SO.

Last year in the majors, no pitcher who pitched 200 innings or more had an ERA greater than 4.80.

More innings eaters had ERA’s in the “TWO’s” (Thirteen) than in the “FOUR’s” (Seven).

There is no evidence that high ERA pitchers are big time innings eaters.

By: USMF

USMF — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 19:01:11 +0000

But Mike didn’t reach 200 innings and he started 33 games.

He reached 193.1 innings (excluding the inning he did in relief), that’s less than 6 innings per start.

-He had 11 games of only 5 innings or less. That’s 1/3 of his starts he didn’t record more than 15 outs.

-He had 7 games of 5 runs or more, that’s about 1 out of ever 4 starts.

-He had 8 games of 7 innings or more, which means he’s more likely to go less than 5 than more than 7.

-He struck out 4 or more guys 10 times. He walked 4 or more guys 7 times.

-Mike averages about 17 pitches per inning.

I could go on, but these are the numbers of a quality starter who’s an inning eater.

By: jessep

jessep — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:58:18 +0000

Des: I’m not disagreeing with you lol… I’m saying I think Donal was exaggerating his point on purpose.

A pitcher with a high 4 ERA and 190+ innings could be an innings eater no? A High 4 ERA isn’t that good is it? If you go over the last 10 years you’ll find some guys who fit that criteria.

By: jessep

jessep — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:49:10 +0000

No I’m sayig that historically not just 2011, I doubt if you looked over say the last 10 years you will find a 6.00 ERA with 200 IP. Meaning, I think Donal was exaggerating the point on purpose.

By: SaltyGary

SaltyGary — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:47:31 +0000

This team has not had a decent bullpen since ’06. So the Mets can let Pelf pitch that many innings because the alternative has never been better for him. Also they need Pelf to pitch that long just to give the bullpen guys a rest. Hell Capuano pitched almost 200 innings. Were those quality innings? Not all of them.

By: jessep

jessep — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:43:23 +0000

Des, can I borrow $20?

By: jessep

jessep — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:42:27 +0000

I think innings eater doesn’t need to be defined as 200+

I mean Arroyo threw 199 and had an ERA of 5.07

I think Donal was probably being a little funny when he said “A guy can have an ERA of 6 and still be an innings eater”

I doubt you can really name a SP who hit 200+ innings and had a 6 ERA right? Maybe you can…