Comments on: First Bernie, Then Beltran

By: Metsie

Metsie — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:01:36 +0000

“I have predicted a 74-88 record and last place on numerous occasions”
So you agree Sandy has made this team worse!

Why don’t you say that?

By: Metsie

Metsie — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:37:32 +0000

I Posted Park factors for HRs, ignore them if you must to feel better about your position!

By: trs86

trs86 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:50:59 +0000

Seriously, do you not realize how ridiculous you sound? The fact that in MY opinion Beltran does not currently have the creds for the HOF and is not on the same level as KGJR I am part of a conspiracy to bring down Beltran?

This makes takes away from your own creds.

By: trs86

trs86 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:27:11 +0000

Did Beltran in KC?

And you do realize that the year that Griffey hit his 56 HR and was intentionally walked 23 times he had some guys named,
Alex Rodriguez, Edgar Martinez, Jay Buhner (40 HR that year), Paul Sorrento (31 HR).

By: Metsie

Metsie — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:16:46 +0000

Did KGJr have Carlos Delgado and David Wright batting behind him in the lineup?
Or was he pretty much the only threatening bat in that Seattle lineup and if you don’t let him hit he can’t burn you?

By: trs86

trs86 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:16:00 +0000

Yet during Griffey’s time at the Kingdome the park played even according to BPF while Beltran’s time in KC the park played at 105. I suppose that is another illegal stat to use because the only ones that count are the ones you say count.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:14:53 +0000

Guilt by Association!

You made the choice didn’t you?
Even if your not part of the conspiracy your still part of the stupidity!

Lucky for you there is safety in numbers!

By: Metsie

Metsie — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:09:09 +0000

Clearly favors KGjr because he plays in a HR hitters park!

Career slug for Grifey is .538
For Beltran .496
Your talking about 4 or 5 HRs per 100 hits.
And again that doesn’t take into account the fact Griffey hit in a HR hitters park for just about ALL of his career!

SEA 1,037
CIN 1.314
US CELL 1.230

Vs Beltran
Kaufman .708
Minute Maid 1.160 (One Year there!)
Citi .735

Get it now?

By: trs86

trs86 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:06:36 +0000

As for Beltran, no he currently does not have the creds to be in the HOF but we are not voters so it doesn’t make a damn what we think anyway

As for comparing him to Ashburn… that’s a fallacy. We could play that game all the time. Does David Wright have the creds to be a HOF? You think I could find a HOF 3B with worse numbers?

By: trs86

trs86 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:04:31 +0000

What an absolute ridiculous post. So because I think that Beltran does not have the numbers currently to be in the hall I am now part of some conspiracy theory game that you are playing? Can I please fold my pawn down and just talk while you guys go at it? I am here to talk baseball not play some sides game.

By: trs86

trs86 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:02:34 +0000

Hmmm, why do you think KGJR was intentionally walked so much and Beltran was not?

By: Metsie

Metsie — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:00:41 +0000

Do you realize that the reason thier OBP is similar is because Griffey got intentionally walked a lot more than Beltran and tha isn’t a SKILL of a batter?

OBP is one of the WORST indicators of actual Batting skill that exists because it gives a batter credit for a decision made by the pitcher!

If I got intentionally walked 5 times out of 10 and made an out the other 5 would I be considered a GOOD BATTER?
Or just a guy who was lucky enough to bat in front of an easy out?

By: Metsie

Metsie — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 18:58:24 +0000

Point is this entire article was created by Jessup for the purpose I mentioned!

We could have EASILY debated the merits of beltran and the Hall in the original thread!

And we were until every player Jessup mentioned as a comparator to Beltrans failure at being Hall Worthy was disputed and he had to start a new thread to hide the previous failures!

He started with Green, when that didn’t work he went to Beltre and when I mentioned a guy who is ACTUALLY in the HOF and had similar numbers this article was created to move the conversation away from that fact!

You supported him which is why I put you in his camp!
What your reasoning is doesn’t really matter!
Your enabling the agenda that I am arguing against!
Giving it creedence!

Does beltran have the creds to get Hall consideration? Yes or No?

If you say no then tell us WHY he falls short compared to guys like Ashburn who made it in as a CF!

By: trs86

trs86 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 18:50:28 +0000

You can’t read….
I said that fine take OBP out as they are both about equal. What remains is their SLG% and that clearly favors KGJR.
Also, you can’t read in the fact that I also produced their counting stats that clearly favor KGJR. I do not rely solely on your fangeld saber stats either however they are a great tool in comparing overall production.

By: trs86

trs86 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 18:47:56 +0000

He let him go because he has had a huge injury issue, made too much money and was leaving anyway. What you need to do is let it go… LOL.

My thoughts on Beltran have nothing to do with some conspiracy theory. You can go back and read what I have always written on Beltran. Incredible player, not HOF worthy at this point, not even on the same level.

By: Bayonne Mets Fan

Bayonne Mets Fan — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 18:18:44 +0000

All the offense that Beltran and Griffey offer and this guy wants to diminish it by talking about their on base percentages. First he uses OPS+, now OBP – it’s a disgrace.

These guys have such good to great numbers in HR’s and RBIs, the ability to drive in runs, doubles, each guy with 8 100 RBI seasons and it’s all reduced to OPS+ and OBP. This saber CRAP does diminish the importance of guy’s careers and any new follower will now NEVER learn about these people or even regular traditional readers will learn to forget exactly how these guys hit because it’s all reduced to text message stats like OPS+ and useless OBP for these guys. These guys are power hitters who happen to have good eyes but the new breed want to talk about their eyes instead of their ability to win games driving in runs. Ridiculous.

By: jessep

jessep — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 18:06:40 +0000

hey TRS: just wanted to make note, I’ve only written to you and only talked baseball today. That’s my plan.

PS obviously Your “Team Jessep” t-shirt is in the mail.

By: JoeD1966

JoeD1966 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 17:59:41 +0000

It’s not enough that you can’t read,spin everything but you also have dyslexia.I have predicted a 74-88 record and last place on numerous occasions,you must’ve saw 88-74 with your dyslexia.But I love all Sandy’s moves. It’s hilarous how childish you are when you get made a fool of. Lose a debate as you always do and everybody gets painted a Sandy lover,moneyball/sabergoon. First Reyes is a HOFer,now Beltran. Lets put Felix Millan in too.Pass the bong please.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 17:45:12 +0000

Call me in 7 years and we can talk about first ballot status!

All I said is he has the numbers to make the Hall!
Griffey does because he played a half a decade before beltran in an age before the new athletes (Bigger Stronger faster and growth hormones were the norm!)

No one is taking anything away from Griffey
But some are trying to take away from Beltran!
And the only reason for it is they know if he does well the Sandy Cheerleaders are going to have to explain why getting a .240 hitter was a GOOD move and keeping Beltran was not!

For 13 Mil they could have gotten a lot more bang for the buck than what they spent 13 Mil on this offseason!
This whole attempt to say Beltran isn’t a HOF potential is just that, an attempt to downplay the loss because god forbid anyone suggests a possible HOFer was let go by Sandy for a maybe Pitcher!

By: trs86

trs86 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 17:20:00 +0000

I am not sure I would vote any of those guys in currently. Maybe Raines just because he was an incredible player that was judged against one of the all-time greats in Henderson who would be in the HOF’s HOF.

Morris to me is in the Bert category.
Lee Smith, not a chance.
Edgar? Wasn’t it you that said yesterday that position should play less of a role or in fact was playing less of a role? Then are his numbers alone even good enough to get him in? Considering he has no defensive numbers to rely on?
Mac? Most likely
Pal? Nope.
Bags, undecided.