9
2011
What The Mets Didn’t Tell You About Pagan Trade…
An article by 
Amazing… No mention of this detail until today. I guess Mets fans are not on a need to know basis under this very covert front office operation.
A Tale Of Two Cities
I investigated Rubin’s claim and here are the Mets and Giants versions of the Press Release:
The distortion and smokescreen with the Mets continues, and some prefer to believe Reyes’ version of events over the Mets who have been nothing but extraordinarily shady to say the least.
Anyway, according to several reports, new Mets center fielder Andres Torres is a nice guy with a great story. He’s sounds very excited to be joining the Mets and is looking forward to having a solid year next season after a disappointing season in 2011.
“I’m excited to go to New York. I grew up in Puerto Rico, but I’ve got a lot of family there, too. Last year, I battled a few injuries, but this year, I’m going to be ready,” Torres said, referring to an Achilles strain that cost him much of April and a right leg contusion that knocked him out for another two weeks in August. “[The 2010 season] was big, we won the World Series and I had a big year. I was a big part of that. I know what I can do. I’m going to go strong, and I’m going to do my best out there.”
Awesome… Welcome to New York, Andres… I hope you have a tremendous debut and a fantastic season in 2012… Heaven knows we need it…
A word of advice though… please get your on-base percentage above your career mark of .312 especially if your going to bat leadoff. I know it’s always difficult to improve the older a player gets, but many 34-year-olds have beaten the odds before and you can too.
Both Sandy Alderson and Terry Collins mentioned Torres as the probable leadoff hitter in 2012. ”He has those attributes to lead off if he’s performing offensively at the level he did in 2010,” Mets general manager Sandy Alderson said.
That’s wishful thinking…
I saw a post on MetsBlog yesterday extolling all of the virtues of Andres Torres along with reactions from Giants fans who wished him well and poured out their ever-lovin guts for him. Even I was touched by the raw emotion on display and the heart-warming sentiments… Now back to baseball and reality…
Here are some more comments from Giants fans in the press release featured on the Giants website.
AlwaysONB – From an offensive standpoint, I kinda like this trade. Pagan has proven himself as a good base-stealer, so he’ll probably end up taking Torres’ leadoff spot. He’s not exactly a power threat, but he can still get on base and not get picked off once a week like Torres seemed to do last year.
BustaBusta - This is a great trade. Sure, Ramirez was great, beyond great in fact, but we have 3-4 other guys in the bullpen who can get the job done just as well as he did. The Giants can afford to get rid of Ramirez. Also, all these arguments about Torres being a fan favorite are no reason to keep him. Don’t get me wrong, I loved Torres as a person, but really a .221 avg. He is not a starter, nor will he be in New York. Pagan, on the other hand, is a potential .280 hitter, who can play all outfield positions. Additionally, he can be a true leadoff hitter, which the Giants have been lacking for the last several years (with the exception of 2010). Overall, great trade.
HondoLane – I know I am going to get some heat for this, but I love the trade. Torres was a very inconsistent hitter (and base runner) even in the WS year and the Gs were going to have to open their wallets to retain Ramirez, who admittedly is a loss. However, Pagan can play… He is a fine hitter (and good in the clutch), a great base stealer (32 steals in 39 attempts this past year), and like Torres, is aggressive and competitive. He also doesn’t strike out much, unlike Torres. The Giants really needed a proven lead-off hitter and they got a very good one… I’m happy.
GiantsCommenter – People…..Torres would not even have made the team this year. Essentially, this was a swap of a nice set-up reliever for a starting, speedy lead-off hitter (and in case you haven’t noticed, there aren’t a lot of those around). This was a nice trade for both teams because the Mets needed to upgrade a pathetic bullpen and the Giants needed to get a good lead-off hitter. Mission accomplished.
TheWillies – The Giants get a career .280 hitter who steals 30 bags and averages 80 runs a year. That’s a significant upgrade over Torres. This is the kind of lineup The Giants should have been running out there — one built for the dimensions of AT&T Park. Speedy gap hitters who steal bases. It’s a formula that worked well for the ’80s StL Cardinals.
There’s a flipside to everything…
Mets fans, meet Alex Cora err, Cory Sullivan, err, I mean Andres Torres, your replacement for Jose Reyes at leadoff. By the way, who else fell off their chair when Sandy Alderson said Andres Torres was “gritty”?
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 28 | .600 | - |
| Nationals | 34 | 35 | .493 | 7.5 |
| Phillies | 34 | 37 | .479 | 8.5 |
| Mets | 25 | 40 | .385 | 14.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 47 | .319 | 19.5 |
Last updated: 06/18/2013
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First word says it all, amazing.
I feel bad for Torres. This arrogant front office thinks it can just say anything, and there are some that beleive every word from the PT mouthpiece of the zombie gm Sandy Alderson. All those beleivers are now beleiving andres Torres was the steal of the new Century and is a likely MVP as well as feel good story extraordinaire. Now, when they find out come May or June that Andres is just a back up outfielder who had one pretty good season, they will turn on him for failing lord Sandy. Poor Andres. Life was good in SF. In Queens, not so much.
well, Torres played CF for a WS winner. In an offense that is likely worse than the mets offense. Pagan has never been a starter on a WS team. Point being, you can win with guys like this. not sure you can win with human brain farts like Pagan. Pagan is no big loss and Torres is no diamond in the rough. But he has been there.
Regarding lies and lying, it was J.P. Ricciardi who famously said, “It’s okay for a general manager to lie to the fans as long as he knows the truth.”
LOL, this trying to “balance” the story stuff is silly. When you are continually looking for every detail from anything from beat reporters mouths to press released by different teams you will find plenty to gripe about.
Isn’t it very possible that they were still working out the minor details? What actually would the Mets gain by saying that the trade did not include those things when they did? You think they would not have known it would get out? LOL. Ridiculous.
Also, I did not care about what the “SF fans” said on Metsblog so why would I care what they said on here? Could you judge any move the Mets made by reading blogs? Our blogs are full of whiners and naysayers right now, every move would be a steal for the other team… LOL.
I hope the PTBNL is not Juan Lagares or any of our pitching prospects like Gorski or Carson. Obviously our top 5-6 prospects wont get traded, that’s for sure, but I kind of like many of our b-level prospects who have some upside. I just hope this doesn’t blow up in our faces.
Not many PTBNL even turn out to be B prospects. Think, who the hell did we get for Krod?
“Amazing… No mention of this detail until today. I guess Mets fans are not on a need to know basis under this very covert front office operation.” Joe D.
I need to correct you. The press release may have missed it but the “player to be named later or cash” has been scrolling at the bottom of MLB Network since the trade.
Living outside of NY certainly keeps things in prospective. Did you stop and think that whoever wrote the release may have screwed it up?
Good post.
Seems like this is a “piling on” piece. We can’t sit here and nit-pick every little detail or we’ll go insane. And even so, adding a PTBNL doesn’t make this a bad trade at all. I would probably do Rameriz straight up for Pagan. Then Torres is probably worth a PTBNL, so in my mind, no biggie. These aren’t the droids you are looking for. You can go about your business. Move along. Move along.
LOL, I love the last reference.
What exactly was to be gained from purposely omitting a player to be named later & cash by the Mets knowing full well that the other team involved would not go along with it?
Reaching here Joe D sorry.
That’s what I don’t get. I see no angle at all where leaving that off would benefit the Mets? It’s not like it would not get or that all of a sudden Mets fans are going to say what a terrible trade or there will be rejoicing in the streets of SF.
It was said the deal was done in 45 minutes, I am sure that because of that there were details that had to be worked out.
It benefits them by making it look like they got a lot more than they gave away because you didn’t mention exactly how much you gave away by omitting the PTBNL.
We swapped two players for two players.
Not quite as good as when people thought we got two players for Pagan alone is it?
LOL, the reports on MLBN and MLBTR and …. all had that player included or cash. You think Sandy thought it would not get out? Seriously. This is just nitpicking. It had no benefit at all.
Hope the player is NOT Wheeler.
LOL.
Is it me or has communication gotten worse since Omar and not better?
Ooops posted before I was done, but this entire year has been nothing but miscommunications, he said – she said, etc.
I think the leaking of information (or fixing the leaks of info) has gotten much better.
No way. That was something, regardless of Omar’s strengths, that was incredibly bad while he was here.
is that the discussion this morning?? andres torrez?? a bum??? please, spare me the drama people, only a few sandy’s BK are still defending him and his methods, he’s a liar and as more lies come up NOONE should be surprised.. come on man!!!!!
By the way joe D, LMAO, i did fell off my chair.. That was funny.. gritty andres torrez, yet what gets to me is that this guy is as worse or probably worse than alex cora, we all know how that turned out… a lot of boos in city field this year i tell you that
“is that the discussion this morning?? andres torrez?? a bum??? ”
Says the guy who practically wet his pants over the loss of Rhiner Cruz last night?
“Two bits will get a guy a seat.
And that guy gets to watch you bleed and call you a bum.
And I know I gotta take it from him, ’cause he’s a paying customer. “
This ia clearly a bit of a stretch. If GIants fans read this blog, they’d see tons of comment about how poor a player Pagan is. How he throws to the wrong base, makes baserunning mistakes, takes bad routes to the ball, etc. One of those guys mentioned Pagan could steal bases? He’s a terrible base stealer (career 75% success rate). He’s no upgrade there. When players are traded, the fans bases immediately bash the departing player and talk up the import. It always happens.
Torres has his problems, too. Don’t for one second think this “fixes” the outfield, or that the lead-off spot is solidified. Joe’s right, Torres had a .312 OBP last season (six points below his career), but Pagan had a .322 (nine points below his career). Not exactly a huge downgrade.
Both are 4th outfielders. Pagan is a better offensive player, but what Torres brings to the Mets are exactly what they need. He’s a superior defensive player and a great clubhouse presence. Pagan was neither. The Mets need that more than they need the slight offensive upgrade Pagan brought.
Torres is presumably a placeholder for Captain Kirk Nuewenhiess (however you spell this). If he plays well, great. If he doesn’t, they are probably hoping to debut Kirk by June. If that scenario doesn’t play out, then Torres platoons with Endy Chavez or whoever they sign as 4th OF.
You’re right about Kirk. If he rakes early, he’ll be in CF by June. Torres isn’t here to save this franchise. Sandy haters want to think he is, so when he doesn’t, they can complain some more.
Funny, when omar did the same he got murdered by you anc co, now that sandy your idol does the same then he gets a pass.. be consistant ok.
What I find even more funny is that ALEX is actually now Omar’s biggest defender. I hope Metsblog has a search feature for old comments. You guys would see Alex saying the almost exact same comments then about Omar as he is now about Sandy. Just as I have a problem being too optimistic I guess, he has a problem being a constant complainer.
TRS86, i never back down from admitting omar minaya as a GM was terrible, especially after he signed oliver perez remember?? but as a talent evaluator i never discredit him or anything like that, look at the roster and pretty much the team is full of prospects. i rather be called a complainer than a bitc* like you were all the time in metsblog for thinking you were above and beyond everyone.
Don’t make it personal Alex. I never insulted you or disrespected you and I expect the same from you. As for what people thought of me on Metsblog? It’s not really my concern. If posters there felt I was above them, chances are at the sound of being arrogant, I was. I did not result to name calling and tried to back up each of my standpoints with facts and rational. Obviously that is something in the blogger world that does not happen often. Me nor others like being proven wrong, however, I have been wrong many times and posters have provided proof to show me that I am in fact wrong. I was wrong on Omar, I supported him. It turns out that in the long run his decisions helped break the Mets financially. I at the moment support Sandy because the moves that he is making seem logical with what I think has to happen to get the Mets back on solid footing. It’s not about sides or name calling or what others think of me.
then why you bring up metsblog in the conversation?? i have always respected you, whether we disagree or not which was most of the time, we never insulted nor i have you, but YOU know how ppl perceive you there for your attitude and way to correct ppl, i liked what minaya was doing, but after a couple of failed trades and bad signing he got afraid to make a mistake and stop doing what got the team to be what it was in 2006. but in no way, shape or perform i said he was a bad scout,sandy alderson imo is not here to build a winner or anything like that, he’s here to ride the train, get paid and leave after 3 years, if i am wrong (and i wish i am) and the mets end up being a great team due to sandy’s addition of players, then i’d be the first one to admit i was wrong.. see daniel murphy
Yeah? Like who?
Captain Kirk, Lucas Duda, Daniel Murphy, Ike Davis, Ruben Tejada, Reese Havens. Thanks Omar, the future you built will be in full blossom in 2012. Thanks Omar.
Torres is ok as long as he stays under 150 AB, better bench guy than Willie Harris.
Really, Joe? You don’t think this is just looking for something to be mad about?
That perhaps you’ve got this theory all set in your head and you are looking at any detail to stretch out and shoe horn into it?
Apophenia is the word I was looking for. It’s the human tendency to see patterns that aren’t really there.
Agreed.
Shocked Sandy witheld information from us! Not like him to lie or omit things like this.
I like the trade. Pagan was too frustrating. He stunk in centerfield in 2011 and was bad on the bases like he was in 2009 and before. Some of the Giants fans spoke about bad base running by Torres and Pagan was going to be a huge improvement. Don’t count your chickens before they hatch. I think they just need to bring up a young guy to play and forget about the older players. If we are going to re-build, lets start NOW!!