What Do The Mets Do When The Young Guns Are Ready?

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• Steve S. December 12, 2011 at 8:43 am

  Good article. I am not satified, though, that “Santana, Dickey, Pelfrey, Niese and Gee are a decent 1-5″ for a “non-punting” team. Paying Pelfrey over $5 million to get to Familia and/or Harvey soon doesn’t make much sense to me. I would rather non-tender or trade “Big Pelf” and obtain a stop-gap starter. The best move would be for Alderson to pull off a Pagan-type deal and get one back, along with a catcher.
  • any December 12, 2011 at 8:52 am

    If they could trade Pelf for a catcher that can be around for a while (and has talent of course) that would be stupendous.
• any December 12, 2011 at 8:51 am

  well, having too many guys deserving of a rotation spot is a good thing, not a bad thing.

  And if your scenario played out, they would either stay in the minors a little longer, or bump someone out of the rotation (either to the pen, or out via a trade).

  2012 (at least before September) is still pretty wishful thinking for guys that only hit AA last year.

  and beyond 2012 is no worry at all. Dickey (who I hope lasts forever) is not signed LT, Santana is only around for a couple more years if he can pitch at all, and Pelf is highly likely to be gone as a FA.

  These problems tend to work themselves out.
• NJstuckinTX December 12, 2011 at 8:55 am

  “What happens if we signed Capuano to a 1 year deal and Harvey or Familia are dominating Triple-A by June and are ready for the call?”

  You dump Pelf off on the side of the road and continue driving along.
  • srt December 12, 2011 at 11:52 am

    hahaha. Funny and true.
• SwedeMet December 12, 2011 at 9:13 am

  I have a lot of worries about the 2012 Mets, however, I can’t say what you bring up is one of them.

  First, I strongly doubt we will see Familia or Harvey in Queens during 2012 (if we do, it’s in September). Mejia is still coming off TJ-surgery so he’s also only likely to make a late season cameo in the majors.

  If, and that is a big if, team managment felt it’s time to move any of the young guns to the majors, there is no problem making space for them, either via a trade, dropping Pelf who’ll likely be a FA after the season or stick Gee or Pelf in the ‘pen.

  The Mets need starting pitching, specially since Santana’s health is a major concern (and at what level he will be).
• Ron December 12, 2011 at 9:33 am

  I think the article is silly.

  Regarding: “Santana, Dickey, Pelfrey, Niese and Gee are a decent 1-5 ….” Really? Santana is a complete unknown and Pelfrey — well, he just sucks. Dickey is a decent #3 or #4 starter on a championship team …. likewise for Niese and Gee is nothing more than a 5th starter on an average team and would probably never be a consistent starter on a championship team — in my opinion. (That said, I actually do like Gee’s make-up and am rooting for him to do well).

  In baseball, you can never have too much pitching ….. signing Capuano would have been a smart move (assuming the money was right) to ad depth, but to say that he would be taking innings away from young guys who are not even projected to be on the major league roster is a stretch, don’t you think? Even more silly is to say “I also don’t want to see Pelfrey, Niese and Dickey taking valuable innings away if they are not part of the future.” These kids are not ready and are not on the 2012 radar ….. if, by some chance they do pitch in major league games, it will be out of necessity and not because they’ve earned it.

  Regarding: “As much as I love Niese and his potential, this almost a make or break season for him. If he does not improve with an above .500 record or at the very least an improved ERA it may be time to turn the page.” The 2012 Mets — at best — is a 70-win team and could very well lose 100 games …. how on earth would Niese be able to rise above that and have a winning record? ERA, yes, is a good measure and I would hope to se improvement there, but to call this a make-or-break based on win record with this team is ridiculous.
• Metsie December 12, 2011 at 10:12 am

  Well While I agree they might pitch good enough to be promoted I think it would be better to leave them in the Minors to have a full year of AAA and bring them up to start the season next year or maybe in May.

  A lot will depend on what kind of team we have. If they can’t score runs then it makes no sense to bring up pitching who will lose confidence if the loss column piles up.

  Best scenario for this year would be if Santana pitches well and gets traded at the deadline. Then you bring up one of them and can go after a top pitcher in FA during the offseason with the Money we saved on Santana.
  • Petey Pete December 12, 2011 at 10:22 am

    Absolutely right Metsie. To bring Harvey up anytime before September would be a huge mistake, and I just don’t see the point in doing it. Familia is a little bit more of a dark-horse candidate simply because he has accumulated 430 minor league innings thus far. A strong first half at AAA would put him over 500 innings for his career, and at that point anything is possible for a guy with his kind of talent.
    • Metsie December 12, 2011 at 11:11 am

      Well Familia is ahead of Harvey as he actually has some time in AAA doesn’t he?
      I still say it would be foolish to put either into a can’t win situation if the guys behind them can’t be helped or win with better pitching.

      If it was something Sandy would do then it goes against his other moves on the team. We still have no real 2B other than maybe Turner. That has to be solved before you subject young pitchers to MLB batters.

      If the plan is to take the slow boat to success then it makes no sense to rush the Kids that are the key to that slow approach.

      Better to see what the deal is with Santana and see what happens with Wright by the trade deadline before we go bringing up the kids.

      If Santana can be moved and Wright traded (which is what I expect regardless of Santana’s status) that will solve their Payroll issues in the offseason and they can then go buy some REAL players (as opposed to short term bandaids) to give those guys half a chance to succeed!

      The only scenario where I change my mind there is if they are actually in the playoff hunt in late July, and one good pitcher could put them over the top.
      And even then I would prefer not to.

      If they are the future then it makes no sense to possibly ruin them on a team that has no chance to win even if they pitch CyYoung!
      • Des December 12, 2011 at 1:42 pm

        “Well Familia is ahead of Harvey as he actually has some time in AAA doesn’t he?”

        Metsie, if a stud has all the goods, who cares if a guy has some AAA experience or doesn’t have it? That isn’t what scouts and general managers look at. AAA is for the average to good players, not the good to great players.

        For example, pitchers Sandy Koufax, Bob Feller and Catfish Hunter, all of whom were elected to the Hall of Fame, never played in the minor leagues. At the time of their signings, none were behind any of the players of their day who had minors experience.
        • Metsie December 12, 2011 at 10:05 pm

          Well how can you be ure of those Goods unless it has been tested by hitters who are good enough to be near promotion?

          You know results are fine but what they were compiled against is just as important.

          A Pitcher can saw through a AA staff only to find that the AA Bats show he has some more work to do.
          • Alex in CT December 12, 2011 at 10:30 pm

            Isn’t AA where Brad Holt and Robert Carson hit a brick wall after cruising? Harvey also stalled there last season.
            • Des December 12, 2011 at 11:20 pm

              I’ve watched Carson many times. He’s just a very predictable batting practice machine. He is so hittable, something like a Bobby Parnell who throws from the other side. Carson is going nowhere unless he develops some better secondary pitches. Same for Parnell who right now is more advanced than Carson.
  • any December 12, 2011 at 10:27 am

    like you are saying, players often drive this. If 3/5 of the rotation goes on the DL, and someone in the minors is kicking butt, then they will come up. If the rotation stays solid, they won’t.

    I like the idea though of having them come up in September (assuming of course the team is not in the playoff hunt!) to dip their toes in the water. Then let them compete for a job out of ST.

    And what happens with Santana this year is going to be one of the fascinating story lines. Can he pitch at all? And if so will he be effective? And is he possibly tradeable?
    • metsaddict77 December 12, 2011 at 10:48 am

      hell we’ll probably trade them for more picks.
      • Metsie December 12, 2011 at 11:18 am

        So true!
    • Metsie December 12, 2011 at 11:13 am

      I don’t care how much of the starting rotation goes on the DL.
      I still wouldn’t start them unless there is a reasonable chance they will be able to win games with the rest of the team that is around them.

      If Santana is traded at the deadline I might entertain bringing Familia up but thats it!
      Injuries and bad performance should not be fixed by rushing the kids.

      We made our bed and should lay in it until next season where maybe Sandy will actually try to make the team better as opposed to tearing it down!
• JJ December 12, 2011 at 11:12 am

  I stopped reading after you wrote that the Mets had a solid 1 – 5.
  • Mookie December 12, 2011 at 11:16 am

    He said “decent” not “solid” and it included Santana in the 5.
    • Ron December 12, 2011 at 1:43 pm

      Where did it say that Santana is the #5.
• Hitman December 12, 2011 at 11:17 am

  “Santana, Dickey, Pelfrey, Niese and Gee are a decent 1-5″

  ….seriously?
• Mookie December 12, 2011 at 11:20 am

  I see Harvey, Familia and Wheeler as two pitchers that may be no different than Gee, Niese and Pelfrey who were equally hyped for years. They may be decent, but I wouldn’t expect anything more than number 3 type pitchers.
• AV December 12, 2011 at 11:24 am

  “What happens if the young guys are ready mid-season and our rotation is full with no visible holes?”

  I think this is a problem Messrs. Alderson, Ricciardi, and DePodesta would love to have mid-season, wouldn’t you agree?
• jdon December 12, 2011 at 12:35 pm

  I think it is a good problem to have. If one of these guys is ready at mid season, a guy like Niese will be even more valuable,or someone like Gee can be a throw in to enhance the Wright trade. I do believe they will move Wright during the season, unless he bats .350 and pops 20 HRs by the ASB.
• Alan December 12, 2011 at 1:04 pm

  Trading Mike Pelfrey? I can’t see any teams knocking down the door for him. Thirty plus starts per season and two complete games? Mike has not taken the last step (and a half) and become a number one guy (or number two). So we ‘d get little for him period.

  And what team complains about having too much pitching? THERE IS NO SUCH THING !
  • Des December 12, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    Alan — If you keep knocking Pelf, we’ll get nothing for him. BTW, how do you know what GM’s say to each other and that there is no interest in Pelf? Maybe so, but it’s just pure speculation on your part.
    • trs86 December 12, 2011 at 1:48 pm

      Pelfrey has value and I am sure many teams are waiting to make sure he is even going to be offered arbitration before they trade anything of value for him. Even then they may wait until they see what the settled amount is and wait for guys like Marquis and Garland to come off the board.
• Dan December 12, 2011 at 4:23 pm

  As good as Mejia is or can be I see him as a bullpen guy. Even though Santana has a lot of money owed to him if he comes back like his old self and Harvey and Wheeler and Familia are lighting it up in the minors bring them up and slot Harvey and Wheeler behind Santana and maybe Familia depending if Neise gets traded how Gee and Dickey do.
  • jdon December 12, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    I think you are right. I agree wth what Warthen said about him. That he expends so uch physical effort each pitch he is probably better suited to 50 innings per year than 180.
• Bad Bad Leroy Brown December 13, 2011 at 12:27 am

  There’s no reason to rush these young pitchers to the majors, they need to spend as much time in the minors as possible before getting a rotation spot. But because us Met’s fans have nothing to look forward to due to this pour scrap heap of a team, Mets fans want to see the young guns ASAP.

  Best case scenario for the young pitchers is a couple of spot starts in the majors and a late season or September call-up. But only “IF” they are doing well in triple-A, similar to how the Braves handled their youngsters Teheran & Vizcaino.They came up for a spot start struggled the Braves sent them back down to work on somethings, and eventually they were affective against major league lineups and from there the confidence grows