How many times have they won the WS compared to the Braves and Phillies again?

How many times has your plan worked for oakland, Pirates?

Yeah Monkeyball was just such a failure that it produced more consecutive competitive seasons than any Met team over the course of your 25 years!

One thing we do know is YOUR plan has failed and failed miserably at that.

Monkeyball has been an unmitigated disaster that has repulsed the fan base with the constant relying on only those expensive and underperforming free agents who come here and stink up the joint. You’ve had 25 years and ZIPPO.

Unless your idea of success is a handful of meaningful Septembers.

Three playoff appearances in 20 years. Same as the Pittsburgh Pirates, and that’s WITH the highest payroll in the National League. Jeez how much worse could you do?

What do you want to do, go back to 1967?

And how many of those picked ahead were in the top 10?

You are just so damn stat manipulative!

Its like a disease with you!

You have gone far beyond rediculous!

See you in 2015…if we haven’t won anything by then guess what…your plan FAILED!
Because you think we can win the WS by then if we are as smart as the Phillies and the braves!

See ya then bring lots of Egg removal!

By showing how those picks got the Braves to thw WS!

But you keep trying to change what I said it’s up on the site for all to see!

Try refreshing your memory on what was said! Go find the post where the broken record started!

I’m done here because there is no need for me to post you keep talking for me!
And changing what I say whenever it suits you!

Hardly something to hang your hat on as for their better drafting results than ours. As a fan you should be outraged with our poor drafting performance throughout the years.

Jeez, Phillips flat out busted on 14 out of 17 first, second and third round picks and one of his rare hits was Heilman.

How are you going to have any success when you bust on so many of your best chances year after year after year?

All he had under his tree was Ramirez and a couple of true prospects he’ll have to wait a couple years on and then won’t be able to peruse the old folks home for a couple of expensive soon to be salary dumps if they come through.

Very very strange conclusion.

We’ve finished in front of the Phillies once in the last 10 years and they’ve traded prospect after prospect out of their farm system and our two systems are pretty equal. How do you explain that one?

Plus don’t pull the old BS about top 10 picks and then apply it to every round because that means the player drafted in the 2nd round was available to everyone, even the defending World Champs so that disproves YOUR false assertion about needing to “suck for 20 years” in order to get these players.

Plus Rollins was drafted 11th in the 2nd round, a pick the Phillies wouldn’t have had if they had signed a type A free agent.

I always pointed out how it was picks other than first rounder that paid off. How guys like Beachy, D’Anaurd and Hanson (bottom of the first or suplimentary round, or McCann, Freeman and Rollins in the 2nd round. Mid first rounders like Utley, Drabek, Heyward and Hamels, 3rd rounders like Kimbrell, 4th rounders like Bourn, Gant and Justice, 5th rounders like Howard and IFA’s like Ruiz, Javy Lopez, Andrew Jones, Rafeal Furcal, Julio Teheran, Randal Delgado are what makes the difference.

Things you could be doing regardless of what your record was the year before.

Not things that are dependent on “sucking for 20 years” at a time.

Did the Phillies have a chance to take him in the 1st? Why Not?
Did anyone after the 2nd pick in the 2nd round have a shot at Rollins who it would appear was not considered 1st round talent at the time?

If you pick at the top of EVERY ROUND you have a round up advantage over the competition!

While Rollins may have made it to the 2nd round he didn’t make it past the 2nd round!
maybe the phillies would have taken him if they actuaklly had a 1st round pick…

They didn’tbecause they did that EVIL DUMB thing you blamed Omar for doing! Signing a free agent!

They picked BEFORE the mets in every round except that given up 1st round!
They picked before the mets in EVERY round the year they goy Utley!

They picked before the mets in every year except the year they got hamels!
Only time they got someone by picking after we made our choice for that round!

When they made their rule 5 picks you love what was their order in that draft?
before or after us?
HUH?
See you willie I leave you to go round in circles!

I said they sucked and picked the cream of every round they were in!
And THAT is thre advantage they had when you compare them to us!
You want to compare them to some other team that picked before them be my guest but if you are going to compare them to us you are not going to get a HEAD START on the race and have if ignored because they sucked and started the race before we could!

The 2nd round where Rollins was drafted just proves he was available to every single team in MLB. At least those who kept their draft choices, even the team that had the best record the year before. They didn’t “suck” did they?

Howard was available in the 5th round. That means the team with the best record the year before could have drafted him 4 times before Philly did. Hardly indicative of a player only they had a chance to draft because of their ineptitude the year before.

Werth and Ruiz weren’t even obtained in the draft. Victorinno was obtained in the rule 5 draft in 2004. We could have selected him. The year before Philly won 20 more games than we did. In fact of their 5 core players only Utley was selected before we drafted. We could have taken every other one. Unless we had given up our pick for Cedeno, Weathers, Zeile, Floyd, Cameron or Appier. I guess your going to now claim how it was wise of us to pass on the better players in favor of the soon to be salary dump.

The Phillies and Braves did become winners because of their drafting (and in the Braves case their IFA’s) Just not solely because of any players picked in the top 10. Most times they didn’t even draft there and many times when they did their players busted, got hurt or didn’t even sign with them.

Their top 10 picks weren’t what led the way, it was their overall picks. By top 10 your insinuating that a team must “suck for 20 years” before becoming good for an extended period and that is just not supported by the facts. The facts in the Braves case are that they drafted better talent AFTER their first playoff appearance then they did before and haven’t had a top 10 pick since 1991 and yet they’ve made the playoffs 16 times in 21 years. We, drafting behind them 9 times out of 10 have made it 3 times. They’ve had 2 losing seasons we’ve had 12.

Sure they’ll sign a free agent here and there but they don’t rely on a free agent being available at every position of need every off season. They go out ahead of time and develop them for themselves and they do a damn fine job of it. Their always thinking of what they want next year all season long and frequently trade for it, usually getting younger as they go.

It would be foolhardy to claim we’ve done a better job then either the Braves or the Phillies over the last 20 years and it would be factually untrue to claim that either team’s success came because of “sucking for 20 years.”

I accept that you no longer want to address this subject and I think that speaks volumns about your defense of you contention and I will refrain from from addressing the falsehood as long as you stop attempting to promote it.

Concession accepted.

My criteria has and will always be SUCKING so you pick at the top of EVERY ROUND not just the first!

But you go right on spinning my opinion as you deem it fits best with your broken record!

I know what MY criteria is and even with the one you tried to turn it into the point remains proved!

None of those guys you want to add in did anything! And were at best as good a pick as pelfrey, Davis, Duda and Neise!

But you keep on selling that bago shit you keep pushing here!

We will all laugh at the end when you finally give up on this homegrown kick and we go back to improving the team every year not 6 years from now!

You forget that I wasn’t the one who said the phillies became winners based on their drafting…That sadly for you WAS YOU!
I said they became good enough because the Braves and us were not anymore!

It was the BRAVES I said got where they were because they lost for a decade and the Phillies did too!

They got a lot of guys they could trade and while they didn’t make good ones that only works against your 25 year comparison of them vs us not what I said about them!

You compared them to US and WE did not SUCK as much as they did!
They picked ahead of us more than we picjed ahead of them!

But your problem is you have rehashed your 25 year broken record so many time you forgot what my original response was when you first made it!
SO maybe you should refresh yourself on what was said when you first brought this up and stop trying to change it as each and every point gets disproved by HISTORICAL FACT!

Philles were NOT great drafters! They got 4 players wprth a damn in all thier chances of picking at the top!
Braves did better but thats because they lost for a good decade before and the guys they got then got them to a WS in 91 which may have been maintained after the fact but those picks did not CAUSE them to get there in the first place!

Sorry Charlie but I’m done with your revisionist rant!
I proved neither were all that great at drafting compared to us and the one who was did well because they had a ton more top picks than we did!

But compared to us they really didn’t do all that much better! Not considering how often they had top 10 picks compared to us!

At least 9 and loads more ready to come up.

YAWN!

Yet thats what you say made the Phillies such great drafters!

“Four guys” Yet thats how many the Braves drafted to get to the WS!

Spin Spin Spin!

And funny thats how many the Yankees drafted too!
Oh Wait they got one more if you include Williams!

Yep keep Diggin dude!

Kind of like Henry the 8th getting a Papal dispensation to marry his sister in law.

Avery is a full qualifier but really only had 3 good years with the Braves, although he did give them two ’95 post season games of 6 IP each in their championship season.

Merker a 7th inning/spot starter. Counts but isn’t like a Glavine or Maddox.

Blauser 11 years. Didn’t exactly do any heavy lifting and wasn’t a great hitter or fielder but he was competent and durable and continuity counts.

All in all is it enough to make the claim that it was the top 10 picks obtained for “sucking for 20 years” that was the cause of the Braves beginning their decade and a half of dominance? I don’t think the evidence supports that. I’d go with it was a kick start to the beginning of their run. The reason? No. Probably 3rd on the list.

This from the guy who has falsly asserted that it was only because of 20 years of top 10 picks that they ever won at all.

I knew you’d finally get it right and I’m glad to get it straight from your mouth.

Facts are you can draft well in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th as well as the 1st. Phillies got real good players in all of those rounds as well as others. They didn’t just get two guys and surround them with a whole pack of guys on their last legs and a crap rotation and one of the worst pens in the history of the game and then make all kinds of excuses.

They also looked elsewhere beyond just type A free agents when they needed a guy and that worked out a hell of a lot better than Alou, Bay, Castillo and Perez.

glad you finally get it.