15
2011
Mets Sign Swingman Chuck James
An article by Craig Lerner
On Tuesday, general manager Sandy Alderson said he wanted to add some rotation depth as insurance in case Johan Santana isn’t ready to start the season.
He followed through on that today as the Mets signed veteran left-handed swingman Chuck James to a minor-league contract. James received an invitation to major-league camp.
James, 30, worked strictly out of the bullpen last season with Minnesota, but has spent most of his career as a starter. Last season he struggled during a brief stint with the Twins where he posted a 6.10 ERA in 10 1/3 innings pitched, but he did post some excellent numbers in the minors.
While pitching for Triple-A Rochester, James posted a 2.30 ERA and 1.21 WHIP in 38 appearances spanning 62 innings in which he struck out 67 batters.
James has been battling back from surgery to repair a torn labrum.
According to Anthony DiComo, James will battle Daniel Herrera and Robert Carson for a spot in the team’s Opening Day bullpen. Left-hander Tim Byrdak recently signed a guaranteed contract and is a lock to make the Opening Day roster, along with right-handers Frank Francisco, Jon Rauch and Ramon Ramirez.
I like this move. There’s nothing to lose and potentially a lot to gain here.
About the Author: Craig Lerner
I'm a data analyst and researcher for a leading news agency who loves life and is hooked on the Mets. I love following the Amateur Draft and have a particular fondness for the Mets Minor Leagues who I follow each day. Give me a cold beer, a summer day, and a Mets game, and I'm good to go.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 28 | .600 | - |
| Nationals | 34 | 35 | .493 | 7.5 |
| Phillies | 34 | 37 | .479 | 8.5 |
| Mets | 25 | 40 | .385 | 14.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 47 | .319 | 19.5 |
Last updated: 06/18/2013
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Chuck James, age 25, 2nd big league year: 30GS, 161.1 IP, 164H, 116K, 58BB, 11-10 record, 4.24 ERA
Jon Niese, age 24, 2nd big league year: 26GS, 157.1 IP, 178H, 138K, 44BB, 11-11 record, 4.40 ERA
Isn’t it weird that there were people jumping off a bridge about the idea of trading Jon Niese yesterday and then today the Mets go out and sign a guy who pitched VERY similar to Niese in his 2nd big league year (excluding 2 games for James and 8 in 2 years for Niese)
I mean I’m not saying James is anything to applaud, frankly it’s a minor league deal and who knows if anything will ever come of it
But you can’t deny performance #s being eerily similar. Injuries to pitchers can derail a guy so quickly it’s ridiculous.
Sorry lack of added “s” in my name above. Not trying to be incognito haha
Dropping an S I can forgive…
Not mentioning that the guy you just compared to Niese did that over 6 years ago and is now 30 I do not!
What happened to this past his prime crap you keep spewing ONLY for players who already wear a Met Jersey?
As you point out, great example of doublethink by Jessep.
Do you even take your commentary seriously. You just prove the point that those, like you who are brainwashied by the pathetic excuse for a gm the Mets have, lord sandy, do not have a mind of their own and cannot do anything but make fools of themselves trying to justify every teeny weeny move by the lord. The fact of the matter that this is just another minor league signing, one done all the time by all teams. Only a fool r a brainwashed soul would write anything making it out to be anything. Its nothing.
Of course you like this move. I always welcome someone tossing me a cane and dancing down the stairs ala Gene Kelly each time we sign a journeyman pitcher with a 6+ ERA
Pitched well in the minors. Hence, the minor league contract. See if you catch him on an upswing. If not, IT’S A MINOR LEAGUE CONTRACT!
I like this move. There’s nothing to lose and potentially a lot to gain here”
based on what craig?? please go ahead and tell us what’s to like about this guy?? seriosly man, you need to stop this… at least give a notion as to why you think is a good move.. in 10 innings the man was bombed, he didn’t have any opportunity on a team going nowhere fast, please let us know why is this a good move or why is it that you like it??
You two always like to complain about being stalked, yet I feel that is exactly what you do to me. You are always the first to comment on my posts and never have anything good to say.
For two posters who seem to boast a lot about their baseball intellect, your overwhelming and apparent ignorance makes it hard to believe you know as much about the game as you let on.
To take offense against a simple post like this because of a small sample size of ten innings only shows how much you still have to learn about baseball.
It’s a good thing they didn’t give up on Chris Carpenter after he allowed 16 earned runs in his first ten innings. Luckily those in charge of his development knew a little more about baseball than you two do.
Lerner you have to remember you’re dealing with pople who cried themselves to sleep because the Mets didn’t sign 40 year old Henry Blanco to a contract.
Lerner:
“You don’t win without experienced 30+ year old veterans. That’s all there is to it. As you already know many men mature at that age and 30 & 31 is exactly old, not by a long stretch”
Seems like your biggest fan thinks 30 year olds mature (develop?)
good catch, slimy
But i have a feeling that’s not gonna happen with this particular 30 year old coming off surgery
Jessup
A Guy reaching 27 is not entering his prime but about to leave it!
It’s paraphrased not a direct quote but it is pretty much what you said about Niese just a few days ago!
signing 40 year old Blanco would have been a smart move.
But don’t let smart, intuitive baseball decision making like giving your young pitching staff a veteran presence to work with get in the way of decisions made solely by a stat sheet junkie without an ounce of baseball acumen in them
Another johnny-come-lately comment. Why didn’t you press your point when Blanco was available? Was it because others hadn’t yet done their analyses?
In fact, you’ve just been hyping Blanco after other fans showed with numbers and analyses that Henry leaves Rod Barajas, Josh Thole, and Ronny Paulino in the dust defensively.
wrong again, i was one of the first to wonder why Blanco wasn’t signed than Jesshup followed up on it disagreeing…
WRONG AGAIN OLD MAN!
No you weren’t zombie. Prove it.
but wait! There’s more!
In the post entitled “MMO Take Five with Eric Simon” there were 119 comments, guess who was the only one to mention Blanco? Take a guess old man
Bayonne Mets Fan October 7, 2011 at 3:21 pm
He got rid of 2 outstanding defensive catchers (I’ll give you that Barajas signed for a little too much) and replaced them with a LOUSY defensive catcher in Paulino. Our pitching staff also could have suffered a LOT by losing 2 excellent, mature, handlers of pitchers in Blanco & Barajas too.
Des? Are you suffering from something? Why do you ask for so much punishment. I mean really?
You’re simply deranged. You comment on lots of issues but are just a johnny-come-lately. You don’t offer proof with analyses, you just act like a mumbling madman who only sees the bad side of life — a loser.
Barajas was traded by Omar, so who are the TWO great defensive catchers HE let go?
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/13803405/mets-trade-c-barajas-to-dodgers-for-cash/rss
des, i’m not gonna mince words here.
You’re just a God Damd IDIOT. Knock it off you’re embarrassing yourself and wasting my time.
You are a complete jerk. I can’t get anymore clearer than that. I would use stronger words to get my point across but i think you got the picture.
KNOCK IT OFF. You’re an idiot!
Here’s one more for you you LYING DOPE. As usual and as I have proved here before Des is a flat out LIAR, he’s a flat out fabricator and he makes things up as he goes along.
I have proven that in the past and I am proving it again now. The guy is a FRAUD, he talks about his arse. Anyway…
Back on December 5h 2010 of LAST YEAR in the post entitled:
Henry Blanco Could Be Heading To The D’Backs
Bayonne Mets Fan December 5, 2010 at 5:15 pm
And I agree with everyone above. Is the new regime worried about Blanco’s OBP? It’s sickening.
Des, how many more time do you want me to embarrass you out here in front of the readership and expose you for what you are – a biased fraud who prefers favorites to what’s best for the team. I’m sure you were called a big BSer more than once in your day growing up and you haven’t learned. You still are a big BSer
Bayonne zombie, you’re one sick dude. BTW, don’t worry about embarrassing anybody but yourself. You were the caboose on the information train about Henry Blanco. As usual you throw names and insults around with a lot of hot air opinions. Where is your view which says, “Keep Henry Blanco”? Then support it with facts, wish is more than you childishly do with your diatribes. Is the childish zombie up to the task? I think not.
The deranged lunatic spends all day and night here trying to pick fights over the internet with people he doesn’t even know.
What a sad, lonely and pathetic life this loser leads.
It’s really unbelievable around here when I have one IDIOT accuse me of lying about my claims about Blanco then I prove him wrong.
Then the other Second Guessing Misanthrope who relives the errors of his life through his surrealistic second guessing of the Mets on a daily basis comes out and backs the idiot who accuses me of not being truthful about Blanco.
You know what they say about people like that. Lying and stretching the truth is way of life with those losers so naturally whenever they they accuse the of lying who is not known as a liar they are really exposing what they themselves are.
Here I am protecting myself and you have the shameless liar with no self respect actually comes back to attack me and the other second guessing loser jumps in out of nowhere when it was ME who was in the right all along.
I was in the right yet these 2 idiots attack me. It’s unbelievable.
and to you t agee you basterd. That’s what you are. You are a lying second guessing BASTERD.
You come here and you LIE and make up a story like I’m sitting here all day when the TRUTH is it took me all of 5 minutes to find my old posts. I was out half the day and I happen to be at both, my PC & MAC at home a lot because i am required to.
2 idiots who i eat for lunch and spit out on a daily basis. What’s more shameful is each time me or somebody else proves them wrong they come back even stronger. 2 defensive losers who both deserve each other. One makes a living stretching the truth, making things up as he goes along and lying. And the other laments the woes of his life through the Mets here and second guesses everything while totally ignoring accountability on the field..and t agee is a FLAT OUT LIAR TOO as he just did now.
Bayonne Mets Fan November 3, 2011 at 12:59 pm
Jon Heyman
henry blanco agrees to deal with dbacks for $1.2 mil
Well there goes Blanco. Not bad price too and he would have been an upgrade over the defensively challenged Paulino. Blanco not only would have been a nice veteran righty to work with Thole but would have helped the pitching staff like he did last year and be.
Boy Alderson is just sooo smart. He’s really ahead of the pack.
jessep November 3, 2011 at 1:09 pm
haha, you know you are BEGGING to be critical when you start a post with “Well there goes Blanco”
He’s 40 years old………..
Right on the money Jessep.
No thought given to WHY we never have a capable Major League catcher though.
No thought given to WHY we always have to go outside the system for a multitude of deficincies on the 25 and 40 man roster every year.
Just look around every off season and see which 32-40 year old you can add to the roster and then claim “How was the FO supposed to know he would get hurt?” or the equally popular “who could have expected he would fall off a cliff right after we signed him?”
No correlation between that philosophy and not even being in the playoff hunt over 70% of time though.
You certainly are one big broken record t agee. and a very boring and history twisting one at that.
You mean like endlessly agonizing over every minor move made by the current FO?
Or by pretending that the Mets financial situation is the same now as it had been during the first 25 years of the Wilpon ownership?
Or by constantly slagging the FO for picking up a top prospect for the last 2 months of Carlos Beltran?
Or by constantly belittling the chances of an 18 year old draft choice.
Or do you mean by falsely crediting your namesake with other GM’s signings?
Or like constantly (and falsely) claiming that Alderson is someone’s “lord and savoir?”
Or making constant mention of Alderson’s success while some of his players were using PED’s while selectively forgetting that one could say the same about almost every GM? And Scout as well, including your namesake.
One thing about some of the posters here, including you, is that they never dispute the facts brought up for discussion, they just make some blanket generalization about lying or “history twisting” or some other nonsense but when it comes to actually disputing a single particular fact they are curiously silent.
Including you.
Right no thouht givn to why we don’t have a Major League SS either.
Or Major League Closer
Or Major League Right Fielder
We DID have one Major League Catcher A guy you may have heard of Todd Hundley. We let him go too!
We Currently have a Major League third baseman, We will soon trade him too!
And when we are done there we will probably work on trading the guy who becomes a major league 1st baseman!
Why?
Because these guys are so BAD at picking talent they need as many chances to hit gold as possible to do what you want them to do which takes EVERYONE you have ever mentioned 10 years worth of draft picks and a few Free Agents to work!
We lost our SS because the money was spent on our LFer, former 2B and former starting LHP and failed to produce the expected revenue to resign Reyes.
That and the fact that we have spent 13 1st, 2nd and 3rd round draft choices on correcting talent shortages on previous teams rosters prevented us from drafting and developing another one and the Wilpon purse strings prevented us from going big on later round overslot selections and top quality IFA signings. Where the investment really pays off.
We don’t have a closer because we can’t afford one and the last one we developed we gave to Oakland for Billy Taylor.
We do have a RFer who should really be in LF but that position is occupied and our previous RFer’s last two months was exchanged for a top starting pitching prospect.
We also haven’t developed (for ourselves) a RFer in 25 years.
Yes we traded Hundley, for a closer because we traded Isringhausen to Oakland and after acquiring Piazza had no spot for him to play but he was drafted in 1987. Think we might have thought it a good idea to make catcher a priority at some point?
How many teams in MLB can boast of developing Pelfrey, Niese or Gee as the best starting pitching prospect their organization developed over the last quarter of a century?
All of them. RF? Same again. Catcher? All 30. 2B? You guessed it, all 30. Bullpen? Correct again. LF? Maybe we eclipse Cleveland here but I’m not sure.
Figure it out for yourself. Take the best pure homegrown player at every position drafted or signed from 1987 onward and tell me what position and what team DIDN”T produce a better player at every single position save SS and 3B than we have.
Sorry Squire I scratched the record SCREECH Scratched the record SCREECH Scratched the record SCREECH Scratched the record SCREECH Scratched the record SCREECH Scratched the record SCREECH Scratched the record
Good one Metsie I can take a joke.
Let me just ask you for your honest opinion on one matter.
I want to ask your honest opinion on this pitching rotation. Two guys careers are complete, one is perhaps 2/5ths complete and two are just starting out. Please think of each guy as if he was in his flat out prime and give me your honest assessment of how you satisfied you with this starting rotation.
Bobby Jones
Pete Schoruk
Mike Pelfrey
Jon Niece
Dillon Gee
I’m quite happy with both Niese and Gee and believe they will improve with the proper pitching coach (Who I don’t think we have hired)
Pelfrey has everything he should need except the heart to win.
The other two were crap as far as I’m concerned but don’t see how they have anything to do with the situation as it stands now!
You seem to be pissed that we didn’t develop and entire team which NO TEAM has done via pure draft and had to make plenty of trades that you then consider HOME GROWN.
Look at the NY Mets and you will see only two or three ACTUAL home growns yet you use them as a barometer for what should be done because you include the HoJo’s and darlings, fernandez’s and Dykstras
Even your most widely used example of a good drafter (Phillies) never got more than two players in a single draft that was then a homegrown star for them.
But you seem to imply these teams you like have a star whenever it is needed just waiting in the Minors…
Of course your only evidence to such things is they have a guy on BA’s list who has yet to and may never prove to be the guy you want him to be taken for but thats why people are ignoring your 25 year history rants that are stated over and over again yet have nothing to do with the fact that the REASON we don’t have these homegrowns now is a refusal to pay them not that we didn’t draft them!
If Niese goes and gets traded but becomes a solid pitcher will I have to hear about the foibles of the past 25 years 15 years from now despite the fact you thought getting kids for Niese is worth doing like you say it was for Mazzilli?
When does the past become the past and the present become the discussion about the Future pray tell?
And when does the damn record change to somthing that actually has relevance to the year 2012 and beyond?
You want the tream to be smart drafters then they shouldn’t need three picks in the first to get the players you want!
We haven’t picked well because we have never been cellar dwellars like the Braves and Phillies were since 1983. We have been good but not good enough and never compiled consecutive years of top draft position which you seem to want to deny in this nrevisionist and irrelevant history that you keep relateing to 2012!
What we did 25 years ago isn’t why the batting champ no longer wears a Met jersey!
Isn’t why we have financial problems
isn’t why we can’t afford any free agents to replace the guys we traded for Lottery ticket picks in a draft a smart guy should be able to get talent with without extra shots!
But you go right on saying that picking smart is the way to go!
I agree with that!
Picking smart doesn’t need 5 picks in the 2nd round to get the job done!
Braves didn’t need it and neither did the phillies who have given away as many picks as the mets have!
I suggest you come to the future again and put away your bitterness over the firing of mcIlvane who proved not to be the SOLUTION to the problems you wish to blame!
And start commenting on if this team AS BUILT is better than the team you say was built BADLY in 2005-2008
Cause that team at least made it to the playoffs once and played meaningful games in September three years consecutivly!
Something this team as built using what you deem to be SMART moves will do in the next 5 years!
I’m curious, so which is it? Is it the past is the past and the present become the discussion about the Future or is it if this team as built is better than the 2005-2008 team?
Seems like your asking to look at the present regarding the future and at the same time saying to look at the past (2005-2008).
Mind you I have as you know am of the look to the future type of guy when viewing the present.
I feel like a “Let’s Do The Time Warp Again” song coming on. LoL
First of all it’s a misconception that I desire every player on the team to be homegrown. What I want is to have a couple of options at each position on the way up and then trade some of the surplus for where we didn’t hit and trade some more of the surplus to upgrade a position sensibly when the opportunity presents itself, dealing from a position of strength, not weakness. Being able to hold strong or walk away. Not being held hostage or being pressured into a move that prevents us from making a better move later which like to hear it or not has happened to us many times since we first started playing the free agent game back in 1991.
My reason for listing Jones, Schourak, Pelfrey, Niese and Gee as I’m sure your aware is that these are in order to date the best 5 starting pitchers produced by the Mets since the Wilpon’s became a full 50% partner back in Nov of 1986.
Baseball wise that’s four generations over 25 years and either 5 or 6 GM’s (if your counting Hunnisker) that produced one rather very mediocre rotation of starting pitchers (to date)
I also have hopes for Niese and Gee but I’m no where near as high on either as I am on Mejia, Familla, Harvey, Wheeler and I have a feeling about Gorski as well but back to my original point. I would find it very difficult to believe that in 25 years any team in MLB has produced so few and so mediocre (so far) starting pitchers and if this isn’t the biggest reason for our lack of success then take a look at the best relief pitchers that have debuted with the Mets since the Wilpon became a full partner:
Again I’ve listed them in the order in which I feel they belong.
Octavio Dotel
Heath Bell
Jason Isringhausen
Dan Wheeler
Aaron Heilman
Pedro Feliciano
Robert Person
One thing you’ll notice is that just two of the seven really contributed here and this has nothing to do with the fact that we traded guys. It has to do with already having some pieces in place and then adding to THEM via trade or FA. Again this is over four baseball generations that we developed ourselves 1 full bullpen and really got very little out of it.
Put aside that Dotel and Wheeler went for Hampton. That’s a deal you make every time you have the chance but when your only producing 25% of your own needs and then trading away most of those solutions for other needs you can never catch up.
Four baseball generations and one mediocre rotation and one pretty damn good pen but very little of it benefitting us and if you think the pitching situation under Fred has been bad just wait till I show you the OF situation.
You know sports are a result oriented business and you just cannot ever get over the hump no matter how much you spend and how many free agents or salary dumps you acquire because even if it ever did work, it’ll just fall apart in a year or two and 99% of the time you just keep throwing good money after bad in a desperate gamble to make all the initial investment pay off and that’s how you wind up screwing yourself with Bay for 4 years or thinking Appier’s worth a #1 pick and Weathers and Cedeno are worth #2 picks and on and on and on until it all comes apart and your right back where you were 7 years ago only with a more disgruntled and a more disappointed fan base.
We would really have needed to produce four times what we did just for our own needs, without any trades or hit big and often else where but we haven’t hit big and often anywhere. That’s why we’re so chronically looking around every year to see who we can get.
To piggyback on Any’s point about having a fertile farm is that it prevents you from making mistakes out of desperation. One common refrain around here I’ve heard for years to defend bad free agent signings is “well who else were we supposed to get to play ________?”
That’s a defense? For signing a guy who clogs up your roster, hamstrings your payroll and plays like ****?
That’s no defense at all. That’s an indictment of the flawed philosophy of waiting around until the offseason in which to procure the players you need in order to compete. The “who can we get” for 8-12 spots on the 40 man roster every year.
What you are able to accomplish on the field is heavily dependent upon the work your organization has done ahead of time in preparing for that team 5-10 years beforehand.
Does anyone really believe we would have signed Jason Bay if we had Mike Stanton in AA?
Would we be discussing the merits of signing Ivan Rodriguez if we had drafted Brian McCann in 2002? Well we had no chance to sign Brian McCann because we spent our 2nd round draft choice on two years of David Weathers. Why was that good idea? One reason and one reason only. He was better than anyone we had in the system for the bullpen at the time.
That’s the problem. Signing a David Weathers, Moises Alou or Jason Bay is only an attempt to fix the symptom and perpetuates the problem and frequently doesn’t advance the cause of getting us into the post season now or later.
In fact often times it does the exact opposite.
Most of those guy you mentioned haven’t even gotten to the Majors, obviously not many of them could have by now but even among those that have some are one dimensional and playing out of position but I do like a lot of Minaya did and have said so many times. I also recognize that ownership put handcuffs on him in this area as well but where are the relief pitchers? Where is the catcher? Where is the LFer? Niese and Gee are certainly credible efforts by Minaya as were a couple of guys who haven’t fared well. Not every prospect does. That’s why many times it makes sense to have a few options on the way up, not just one for each spot or you wind up getting caught short.
Duda needs a defensive replacement. Murphy does too. Thole’s a backup/platoon guy. Gee’s a good 5th starter. Tejada’s a better defender at 2B than SS and while I’ve said this before and never heard it from anyone else I’ll say it again. Omar funded his free agents. He delivered 3 straight years of the best attendance the Mets ever had and it’s not his fault the profits got thrown away and I don’t care about the cash anyway. I care about getting a COUPLE of the Vladimir Guerrero, Miguel Cabrerra, Pedro Martinez, types so the Duda’s, Murphy’s, Thole’s and Gee’s are more suitably surrounded and that hasn’t happened.
As I’ve said Minaya got our system back on track but every team has a Niese, Gee, Murphy, Duda and even Davis produced from 2005-2010.
Starting from where we were we needed to produce more of them than others, not the same or less.
Oh you mean like those guys Phillies had but never used as part of their core?
Like all those guys you mentioned the yankees and Braves have down on their farm?
Be consistent and in the present dude please!
What I’m saying is which direction is the team going in. For better or worse!
Tag wishes to say that for 25 years the team sucks and it does if you lump 20 years of sucking with the 4 years that it was good!
The team GOT BETTER than it was at it’s worst in the last 25 years, most notably in the years I mentioned!
It made a playoff and played meaningful baseball which means it is the LAST SUCCESS (not 1986 as Tag would have us believe) that has since been DEGRADED!
Should it have been maintained? Of Course! It wasn’t though and not because we didn’t draft well as Ike Davis, Daniel Murphy, Jon Niese, Lucas Duda Dillon Gee, Harvey familia, Havens Flores will attest to!
Omar started in 2005 and 7 years later has 10 players to show for it!
So Omar did what Tag proposes but he chooses to hide it by including all the stuff Phillips and McIlvane, harazin and whoever else had their paws on the team for the last 25 years did.
They all left Omar NOTHING but Reyes and Wright! And now Reyes is gone too!
So What happened to make this team WORSE? And where is it going up or down from that year or if you prefer even from 2010!
Hint we lost two more games than we did in 2010 which was a team without Beltran being good for 3 out of the 4 months he played vs a team who had him for all 4 months doing well and yet STILL couldn’t win two more games with that contribution!
This team is now WORSE than even what it was last year!
Is that the right direction?
Got it. It was just that when you asked “When does the past become the past…” I misinterpreted it as you telling him to stop dwelling on the past so when you followed it with asking him to look at the past 2005-2008 team it seemed like there was a contradiction there.
I guess if you want to say that on paper this team as is constituted right now is worse than last year your well within your right to do so. Personally I will wait to see if indeed that is the case when the 2012 season is done but as you know already I am going to allow time to see how things unfold.
Thank you though for expanding on what you was saying.
While it may be too early to tell if 2012 will win more games than 2011 you can’t deny that with largely the same players that Omar brought plus better performance than Omar got we still got worse by two games compared to 2010.
Is that entirely Sandy’s fault?
Is it fair to blame him for that?
From an acquisition POV maybe not but you have to ask yourself would it have happened if K-Rod was there to close games and Beltran (our leading RBI guy at the time and even AFTER he was traded halfway through the season) was still there.
4 Years from now we will have the answer to the question of if that was worth it.
But the bottom line on the record in the books so far is this team has won LESS not More!
Only two games but that was before Reyes left.
And even from an Acquisition POV I have yet to see one player acquired that either helps the long term or makes the MLB squad better!
A GM’s job is to make the MLB better not get the most players on BA’s list or developing in the MiL system.
The only acquisition so far that seems to have any promise is promise that is 3-4 years away and by then Sandy won’t even be here if they don’t start winning more than Omar’s worst year!
Krod, Beltran again?
If your looking short term then obviously one would assume the Mets would of been a better team last season with them then without them once they were traded.
How much better? That is open to speculation. So yes, short term bad, but those moves were never about the short term.
Your concerned that no player has been added long term and that is ok. I already know that in year 1 there was not much that was going to be added via free agency and I have already said that I did not expect the financial situation that appears to be upon the team this off season.
Do you feel a player for the long term could of been added via trade? Fair enough. Maybe there was a trade that could of been done and wasn’t I can’t say. I know that based on just the rumors of names like Niese in a possible trade has some not very keen on trading certain players for the long term.
I know I know. It’s about trading Bay or Pelfrey not the actual players who have potential but the ones that have fans have no passion for. If it were only that easy.
Anyway regardless of how anyone views the situation I see concern mostly due to the ownership situation and 1 year is not enough for me to start making assumptions on where this team will be in say 4 years let alone 1.
It’s really not completely honest that they all left Omar with nothing. Omar used plenty of pieces he inherited to make some of his moves. Benson, Seao, Cameron, Humber, Butera, Jacobs, Winnington, Vance Wilson, Gomez, plus he held onto Glavine, Trachsel, Heilman, Floyd and of course had the two rooks Reyes and Wright so it’s not completely accurate to say that he had nothing which isn’t to say he had a lot either. Our farm was really bad and our 25 very poorly conceived but that goes right to my point.
If your farms not there is that the time to start tossing your #1 and #2 picks out the window? Is that the time to make 4-1 trades of what little you do have?
I thought his first two free agent signings were terrific for a few reasons most notably airing out the old and decrepit building and ushering in a new era. Wagner and Delgado were not going to be here when the high end talent he was bringing into the system arrived but I can live with a difference of opinion on that. Even Santana but after that it just went haywire with Castillo, Perez, Putz, K-Rod and Bay. There was no one left to trade unless you wanted to damage a legitimate chance of winning.
The foundation laid before Omar came back just couldn’t support it and Omar has the brains and the talent to have done it in a way that would have worked. He didn’t have to go all Steve Phillips on us but it really goes right up to ownership. I will always believe that Omar knew better but was just going in the direction that every GM under the Wilpon’s has been directed.
It’s wily nilly leadership at the top. Very worried about public perception, intrigue, making sure Hojo was reporting back to headquaters, Bernazard and Delgado were undermining Willie, a helter skelter approach to roster building, making baseball decisions for business reasons instead of baseball reasons, cheapness on the draft, cheapness on the scouting budget, cheapness on the developmental staff, constant turmoil depending on which way the wind blew last Tuesday.
You know this team was really turning it’s culture around under Randolph who accepted no excuses and the older more financially comfortable rebelled a little and then caught wind that maybe Willie wasn’t Jeff’s overwhelming choice and that’s really where the whole thing went to ****. After that it was inconsistent play, lacadasical at times, buffoonery at various levels of the FO but that hard edge the Mets had in 2006 never came back and that’s one of the things you get when you have too many financially secure older vets on their last contracts and if you don’t think that filters down to the young guys your wrong. It does. They fall into line too.
MNJ – Take your WAIT till 2012 approach and apply it to jumping the gun on saying our Playoff chances were over! Thats why I mention those two and considering what we got back in return was squat IE K-Rod got us two RPs and yet we still just went out and spent 10-15 Mil on RPs this off season,
What does that tell you about how great that deal was on our side? Did we FIX a problem by trading K-Rod or did we CREATE a NEW PROBLEM?
Beltran will have to wait until Wheeler gets to the MLB, no guarantees there are there?
TAG – You keep harping on those 1st rounders yet fail to see those 1st rounders were all LATE 1st rounders because the players we got for them put us in the division and playoff races!
And I wonder how you can say it’s so much better to draft a team when you point out all the failure to do that in the 20 years previous to Omar to actually do that!
Neither Atlanta nor the Phillies you used to use as examples have done what you propose either. Only 4 guys on their team were actually drafted by them in the amateur draft.
The point you keep conveniently skipping over is the names I mentioned in my reply to MNJ.
The Davis’ and Tejadas, Harveys and Familias that you keep saying hasn’t happened in the last 25 years and yes your right they happened in only the last 5 years under Omar who you claim squandered picks so he could not get those guys!
But then he id get them didn’t he? AND he made a team competitive in Sept Three years running!
Produced Davis, Murphy, Duda, Tejada, Gee, Niese, Harvey, Familia, Havens, Flores, and Nieuwenhuis. Add Mejia to the mix and what do you get?
And entire SP Rotation
1B Davis
3B/1B Murphy
RF/1B Duda
2B/SS Tejada
2B Havens
SS Flores
OF Nieuwenhuis
You never seem to mention what rank those 1st rounders are I wonder why? Is it because you know they were all late 1st garbage picks? Please feel free to note the ALL STAR or HOF guy that was taken with the pick we gave away!
And I note your dead silence on the fact that we did NOT get a 1st rounder for Reyes, We get the equivilent of two 2nd rounders at best, Maybe even a 2nd and 3rd depending on what the Marlins do the rest of the way.
Isn’t that just as wasteful and giving away a 1st rounder as anything Omar did?
FACTS: Omar and our drafting only looks bad when you incorporate the failure of the 5 previous GMs to the mix. If you look at just what Omar did your theory doesn’t work because of those players I mentioned!
Your 25 year rant is nothing but a nostalgic attempt to add smoke to hide the fact that Omar was doing BOTH the build from within and Buy when needed approach and if not for a couple of injuries that could not be predicted was working!
And you try and say Omar should have KNOWN they would get hurt yet never once note all the walking wounded and injury rehab guys Sandy has brought in becuase they are cheap!
Young made it through 3 whole games before he was lost for the season. Why aren’t you railing aginst that signing if Injuries are predictable?
It’s just a lot of smoke,mirrors and oversight that your using in these 25 year walks down memory lane!
Truth is Omar on his own got the home growns you say you want, Played a meaningful game in three consecutive septembers and still had the ability to go out and buy talent when it was needed.
Just as the braves and Phillies you USED to use as examples did when they were in the playoff hunt and playing meaningful septembers!
You can try and disguise that with things that Harazin and McIlvane did but everyone here sees through that smoke!
And as I said to MNJ you want to talk about the team then lets talk about which direction it is going in NOW!
We just lost K-Rod, Beltran and Reyes and we lost two more games than we did in 2010 that got Omar fired!
Do you really think this team is better NOW then it was in 2010 or at any point where we were playing meaningful games in september just a mere 3 years ago?
If you do please cite the players we got that will make september meaningful again.
And plese do mention when you think that is going to happen.
If you can’t answer both then your just railing against a past plan without any due cause which I suspect you actually KNOW your doing which is why you went and lumped in 20 more years of crap in order to validate your point!
the point of having a fertile farm (or why some people harp on needing to improve it) is not to have a team of only home grown players. It is to have the currency needed to get the players you need to fill your holes.
You mentioned the Phils. No, Halladay was not a home grown guy, but without the prospects to trade for him, he wouldn’t be a phil at all.
Even goes back to Neise. The strongest case against trading him is not having a replacement. If you have a couple of high end prospects pushing their way onto the team out of AAA, you can get away with trading a current ML guy to fill multiple other holes.
But, if you never get those guys to come up (or entice other teams) you are screwed every which way from Sunday, and pretty much are left shopping in the FA market.
And with those 10 guys plus the ones that I didn’t mention they don’t have that?
Get real here Any please!
Look at the other trades that were made this year and tell me with a straight face we don’t have the guy to build with homegrowns AND trade for other good players!
You could have easily added a few of the names I did NOT mention to the Pagan trade and got something much better in return.
Could have added some of those kids to the K-Rod trade to get at least one middle prospect instead of two PTBNL.
Could have added someone to the Beltran trade to get something more than just Wheeler!
We didn’t do that!
Metsie 18 times in the last 25 years we haven’t even been in a playoff hunt so where do you come up with this BS that we’re drafting at the end of the round every year?
Even the years in which we missed out by one game we’re drafting 22nd and 24th. That’s not last in fact the current top rated prospect in all of baseball was selected with the pick right after the one we gave up for signing K-Rod.
In fact many terrific players are drafted in the sandwich round after the first round is over. Many more get drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round as well. It is a complete fallacy that a team has to have a multitude of top 10 picks in order to build up their minors.
Of the 38 players that the NYY had on their 25 man roster 19 came from the farm. Where have they been drafting all these years? Guys like Robertson, Montero, Romine, Gardiner, Nova, Bentances. The farm isn’t even entirely dependent on the draft anyway. It’s dependent on scouting, paying overslot, elite prospect development and going big internationally, not just trying to get away with a Thole at catcher, a Murphy in LF or a Duda in RF or a Kunz in the pen.
The Phillies and Marlins have not one single top 10 pick on their roster. Braves have Chipper and Minor. Washington on the other hand does in Ryan Zimmerman, Harper, Storen and Strausberg but it wouldn’t make a hill of beans difference if they didn’t have Wilson Ramos (trade of a closer for a prospect), J. Zimmerman, Espinosa, Norris, Peacock, Hood or Solis or even Jesus Flores who they snagged from us because we not only exchanged a #1 draft choice for a 40 year old LFer (after having already surrendered a 2nd rounder to fix that same exact position a few years beforehand and four first rounders, two other 2nd rounders and two 3rd rounders in the preceeding 8 years but we did so BEFORE the rule 5 draft and then couldn’t protect Flores who would by far be the best catcher in the entire organization. So basically we lost a chance at catcher as well as another position and were left high and dry in LF in seasons we lost the playoffs by one game.
Very good strategy there both for the present and the future and of course we can always fall back on the oft repeated “well who could have expected that Moises Alou would have gotten hurt.”
The first and 2nd rounds are where 40% of the best players in the game come from and 99% of the time they play their best with their original club, not the club they come to after hitting free agency so we’re paying them the most, getting the least and giving away what should be a big part of our team 5-10 years down the road.
That’s a big reason why Bobby Jones and Pete Schrouk have been the best pitchers we’ve developed in the last 25 years.
18 times in the last 25 years?
Hmm Let bring in the Fan to blow away all of this smoke you seem to be blowing here…
Lets see how many times in the last 5 years have we made the playoffs? Once!
How many times have we had a competitive team that was in the playoff hunt in the last 5 years.
Hmmm 3 times!
So in the 20 years PREVIOUS to 2006 and Omar Minaya we Missed the playoffs 15 times
And in since Omar we made it once in the last 5 years, played competitivly for the playoffs in two other years and somhow the 20 years previous invalidates what Omar did!
This is the record you play over and over again!
Truth is your 25 year walk down memory lane just goes to show how incredibly remarkable Omar was in both BUYING and BUILDING the Minors after 20 years of team mis-management and wasted seasons!
It has no bearing on what Omar did, what Spending does to a franchise or what is needed to build a team from the ground up!
Omar has done that and if you want proof look at the team your fielding and who makes up the best players despite the fact Sandy has traded away the top three Omar signed via FA!
As the smoke clears and the 20 years of smoke you keep talking about gets blown off the stage we see that not only did Omar turn around 20 years of crap management and made the playoffs he built a team that played meaningful septembers three years consecutively and STILL had the smarts to draft the 10 guys I mentioned who are now the best players we have if Sandy doesn’t trade them all away for relief pitchers and .240 batters!
yeah James has a lot of development left at 30 coming off surgery. And Lerner don’t compare baseball knowledge okay? Just stick to what you do best – believing in everything Alderson does without thinking for yourself, playing fantasy baseball and looking at statistical analysis to do your thinking for you
bayonne played the game, guys. take him seriously.
I think you need to take it easy. We’re all in mourning here, but some prefer to put up a brave front. Pops
PS: How about being 82 and everyones talking about a five year plan?
you know, at what point am i stalking you craig?? you’re the worst writer in this site, by FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR….. and is my fault for commenting in your piece of garbage articles, all you do is kiss alderson’s butt with “good job, excellent pick up, great move” at everything he does without at least writing why.. just like with the articles that jesse does i will not comment on any of your garbage from now on, soon enough you will also say this when people stop commenting on your crap:
“jessep December 15, 2011 at 11:40 am .
thanks NJ, it’s kinda getting lost in the shuffle today”
And if you don’t have strong leadership at the owners level the fat cats will exploit that just like every other human being in every other profession does.
There is never any question about what the goal is across the River. Produce or get tossed. Players like that. At one time when Steinbrenner was wearing his exploding clown shoes no one wanted to go there. They just used the NYY. Now no one wants to leave.
Strong and competent leadership. No living with guys who mope around, refuse assignments. No piecemealing the roster on a year to year basis and 19 guys out of 38 from their system.
Oh please you don’t need strong Ownership you need a strong management which you can actually say we have now.
Payson was never a strong owner she let her management team do what they wanted, even in 77!
What you need is a good management who isn’t afraid to walk away from a bad deal in order to go and get a good replacement.
Someone who can get good players regardless of how many picks he has in the 1st round. Doesn’t need multiple chances to get a good player.
Cause a guy who can do that in the 1st has a good chance to succeed in the 8th round as well(See Phillies)
Someone who doesn’t judge payroll based on how much attendance will support but based on how attendance that player might bring on top of the wins he can provide!
THATS the real key to the Yankees!
They don’t seem to have any problems making payments on a 200+ Mil payroll nor do they need loans or a ponzi scheme to make them!
Why? Because they know a player who makes 13-20 Mil will generate twice the paycheck in attendance that makes money to go and buy the next guy should he fail to win the games and need replacing!
Doing THAT means you can take your time developing homegrowns or make them tradeable for something else you need because you already have a great player at that position.
THAT is the key to the Yankee success not the fact that Steinbrenner used to throw a tantrum whenever they lost to someone they should not have lost to!
Joan Payson wasn’t even alive in 1977. Her daughter, Lorinda De Roulet was the teams owner but yes the Met FO was just doing what she wanted. Saving money. She even complained about the cost of baseballs.
Joan Payson spent whatever was necessary, in an era where ALL amateur players were able to sign with any team they chose, on the best players. She also spent whatever was necessary to hire the best FO personal. Just look at the people SHE hired to run the Organization. George Weiss, Casey Stengel, Johnny Murphy, Bing Devine, Whitey Herzog, Gil Hodges, Yogi Berra.
To compare Mrs. Payson’s tenure as owner with her daughters is scandelous and you should be a little more sure of your facts before you seek to connect Mrs. Payson to 1977.
C’mon Alex!
A few more scrubs and we get to 65 wins!!!
“He lasted until the 20th round in the 2002 draft, but as crazy kids will do, he almost blew the career. Kids jumped off a storage house into a swimming pool for fun in Mableton, and one day when it was Chuck’s turn, the roof caved under his feet, and, as he said, “I hit concrete instead of water.”
Both wrists were broken.
On another boyish adventure, he was bitten by a copperhead, a nasty-tempered poisonous reptile. He was nowhere close to a hospital, and after an hour, he said, “I decided I wasn’t going to die, so I didn’t do anything.”
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/sportscolumns/entries/2007/03/14/lefthanded_catc.html
Give the guy a break. James was decent early in his career. At the least he is a cheap long reliever with starting experience. No one said we just signed Sandy Koufax. Calm down
Jon Niese – 25 years old
Chuck James – 30 years old coming of surgery
Wonder what Jon Niese will be at 30..or with the way he throws i wonder what he’ll be like at 36?
Will Chuck James be in the majors at 36?
But let’s compare Chuck James at 25 and Jon Niese at 24.
Fun with numbers.
Cliff Lee age 25: 5.43 ERA ,179 IP, 161 K’s, 81BB’s
Jon Niese age 24: 4.40 ERA, 157IP, 138K’s, 44B’s.
Vinny:
So does this mean you eel a more likely projection for pitchers in the major leagues is that they follow the Cliff Lee career path?
You understand he’s a rare, and I mean RARE situation right?
Do I need to show you the 2006 leaders list again?
If you go back to the 2006 season, using a filter where you don’t look at any qualified pitchers over the age of 28 which means the oldest guy on this list would be 33 and take Top 30 in ERA, then Top 30 in K and Top 30 in Wins.
I think looked at guys on those lists and said “who would you want to build your rotation around prior to this past seasons Opening Day?” So that’s after 4 years.
Top 30 ERA You Likely Would not want to build a rotation Around April 2011.
Johan Santana (you can’t say you would based on injury)
Brandon Webb
Carlos Zambrano
Chris Young
John Lackey
Chien-Ming Wang
Clay Hensley
Erik Bedard
Aaron Harang
Jason Jennings
Barry Zito
Dontrelle Willis
Chris Capuano
Scott Olsen
Jeremy Bonderman
Jake Peavy
Jeff Francis
Aaron Cook
Ervin Santana
Brad Penny
Dave Bush
Zach Duke
Gil Meche
Jon Garland
The only guys you would are: Sabathia, Verlander, Myers (maybe?), Haren, Cain, Lee,
Top 30 K leaders (not on ERA list) that you wouldn’t build around:
Ian Snell
Scott Kazmir
Daniel Cabrera
Top 30 K leaders you would: Beckett, Hamels, Liriano (maybe?), Josh Johnson
Top 30 W leaders you wouldn’t build around:
Joe Blanton
Jason Marquis
Claudio Vargas
Top 30 W leaders you would: Buehrle, King Felix
So by my count if you’re building a team prior to this past year there are 12 pitchers that were younger than 29 who you still would want to build around and 30 you would not.
That means over 70% of the starting pitchers younger than 29 would be guys you’d like to build a rotation around prior to this past season.
That’s my point. It’s not that Niese’s arm will fall off or he suddenly will have a 6.00 ERA when he’s 27, 28… it’s that pitchers generally do not age well. And if you’re holding onto a guy to keep in your rotation 3-4 years from now, you’re likely seeing his best days now rather than when he turns 29, 30, 31, 32.
An older pitcher can and will give you a flash of brilliance every so often. But we’re talking about consistency.
Cliff Lee isn’t a normal scenario or likelihood for many pitchers we see today.
In a pool of 40+ pitchers, less than 30% would be guys you’d want to build a staff around prior to the 2011 season.
That says all you need to know about how pitchers age and how fast the game changes on the mound, and how 1 injury can change it all, just like what happened to James.
Vinny don’t do that. That’s a different comparison than jesshup’s. Don’t you know by now you should trust jesshup’s comparisons? They come from his heart and are totally unobjective and he would never slant anything.
Actually, it’s not that rare for a talented pitcher to come up and struggle early on. The thing is with Niese, is that the talent IS there, he just hasn’t put it all together yet. He was 24 last year, he has a nasty cruve, he’s a lefty, and he was also a former top 100 prospect – There’s no reason why he can’t get better…a lot better. He’s shown flashes where he looked really good last year too, but ran out of gas at the end of the year.
And I don’t know much about Chuck James, but what was his ceiling? Maybe that was the best he was ever going to get? However Niese on the other hand has a lot of talent, and is only going to get better. It could actually be a very bad example because Niese could have much more potential than him….but like I said, I really don’t know anything about Chuck James.
I do know that James was a top 10 Braves prospect once. Not sure if he was top 100
Why don’t you ask the lord …. I’m sure lord sandy would be glad to fill the info he forgot to pass on about the incredible minor league signing. Its sure to make the mets undefeated next year, turn around the financial woes of the wilpon/katz/selig cozy boys club, and will force the yankees to leave NYC in disgrace. Hail lord sandy for saving national leaguebaseball in NYC.
C.C Sabathia age 21, 2nd year in the majors: 4.37 ERA, 210 IP, 149 K’s, 88 BB’s
Roy Halladay age 23: 10.64 ERA, 67 IP, 44 K’s, 42 BB’s
Johan Santana 1st two years in the majors, 21 and 22 years old: 5.90 ERA 130 IP(45 games, 9 GS) 92 K’s, 70 BB’s
Shaun Marcum age 24: 5.06 ERA 78 IP, 65 K’s, 38 BB’s
Zach Grenike age 21: 5.80 ERA, 183 IP, 114 K’s, 53 BB’s
Dan Haren 1st two years in the majors, age 22 and 23 years old: 4.85 ERA, 119 IP, 75 K’s, 39 BB’s
Jon Lester age 22: 4.76 ERA, 81 IP, 60 K’s, 43 BB’s
Jake Peavy 1st full year in the majors age 22: 4.11 ERA, 195 IP, 156 K’s, 82 BB’s
Wandy Rodriguez age 26: 5.53 ERA, 128 IP 80 K’s 53 BB’s
Gio Gonzalez age 23: 5.75 ERA, 98 IP, 109 K’s, 53 BB’s
Clay Bucholz age 24: 4.21 ERA, 92 IP, 68 K’s, 36 BB’s
So, like I said, it’s not rare to see a talented pitcher come up and struggle early on.
Actually it is rare that pitchers mature and become pitchers like Sabathia, Santana, Halladay, Haren, Lester etc. but okay.
Are you trying to tell me that the list you provided is the majority of pitchers?
You continue to imply I say Niese will be terrible in the future, all I’ve said is that by the time this team is ready in say 3 years, it is more likely his best days will be behind him. In that regard I said if you can get a good young catcher and rely more on your younger pitchers to be in 3 years where Niese (or hopefully better) is today then you’re in good shape
And then I showed you a kid like James who was in his organizations top prospect list have a VERY VERY similar 2nd year to Niese and then poof. 1 injury ended it all.
Dan Murphy can suffer 2 severe knee injuries and come back and be a solid hitter. More times than not a pitcher suffers an arm injury that is serious, it sets him back years. That’s all it takes.
To say Niese will be solid from today through his 30′s is to say he’ll be Mark Buehrle esque and consistently healthy and since he hasn’t shown he can stay healthy for a full season, I’m not sure how you can draw that conclusion.
Of course it’s rare that pitchers become as good as them, but it’s not rare for a good pitcher to struggle early on their careers – Most succesful pitchers do struggle, it’s rare when they have instant success.
Niese is going to IMPROVE, he will get better – That’s my point. Maybe not as good as all the pitchers I listed, but he can be a very good pitcher……..There’s no reason why he can’t.
And your under the false impression that the prospects your going to get back are going to be 100% risk free – Niese is already in the majors, and has shown a lot of potential, he’s more likely to have a better career than the prospects your going to get back for him(Unless you get a buch of TOP guys, but that’s not gonna happen)……And you would probably get MORE back from Niese if you waited another year because he’s most likley going to improve off of last year, so he’ll have more value then.
I also think it’s very strange that we are talking about a pitcher’s better days being possibly behind him, when he’s just STARTING his career – He’s only going to be a few years older than the guys your going to get back anyway.
How about this comparison?
J Cueto 23 years old:
11-11, 4.41 ERA, 171 IP, 132 K’s, 62 BB’s.
Niese 24 years old:
11-11 4.40 ERA, 157 IP, 138 K’s, 44 BB’s
And that was his 2nd year starting also.
John Danks age 22: 5.50 ERA, 139 IP, 109 K’s, 54 BB’s
Edwin Jackson 1st full year starting, age 23: 5.67 ERA, 161 IP, 128 K’s, 88 BB’s
Brett Meyers 2nd full year starting, age 23: 5.52 ERA, 176 IP, 116 K’s, 62 BB’s
Chris Capuano age 25: 4.99 ERA, 88 IP, 80 K’s, 37 BB’s
Ricy Romero age 24: 4.30 ERA, 178 IP, 141 K’s, 79 BB’s
Chris Young age 26: 4.26 ERA, 164 IP, 137 K’s, 45 BB’s
Chris Carpneter age 25: 6.26 ERA, 175 IP, 113 K’s, 83 BB’s
Erik Bedard 1st full year starting, age 25: 4.59 ERA, 137 IP, 121 K’s, 71 BB’s
Ben Sheets 1st year starting age 22: 4.76 ERA, 151 IP, 98 K’s, 48 BB’s
Javier Vazquez 1st year, age 22: 6.06 ERA, 172 IP, 139 K’s, 68 BB’s
Aaron Harang age 26: 4.86 ERA, 161 IP, 125 K’s, 53 BB’s
Still want to say it’s rare for a talented pitcher to struggle early on?
I get your point, but there are fifty guys with similar numbers that never made it big for every one that did.
That said, unless there’s something we the public don’t know about him, trading a pitcher like Niese is pure stupidity.
I’m only happy when it rains
I’m only happy when it’s complicated
And though I know you can’t appreciate it
I’m only happy when it rains
You know I love it when the news is bad
Why it feels so good to feel so sad
I’m only happy when it rains…
Okay who ad December 15th in the “Garbage lyrics on MMO” pool?
..or you can question this move.
In Sandy We Trust. Do not question his moves, thou shalt not want
After questioning everything, have you ever come to the conclusion that it was the right move? I’m not saying specifically thesigning James, I’m just saying in general. Or do you only think the true correct move is only the polar opposite of what Sandy does?
You have a crush on Alderson don’t you? You smitten little devil.
for some ppl not to get misinformed chuck james, his second season was in 2007
Alex… I’m comparing Jon Niese to Chuck James when they had their 2nd year. My theory that got torn apart was regarding how pitchers age and that injuries can derail a career.
Chuck James WAS Jon Niese in 2007. You’ll have a hard time finding a better comparison than Chuck James circa 2007, yet I’d bet any amount of money that you probably thought little or nothing about James in 2007 right?
Who cares!
It’s amazing that a MINOR LEAGUE signing incites as much heated debate as this has. If the Mets weren’t in the financial mess they are now (thanks Fred, Jeff, and Saul btw) then signing Chuck James wouldn’t even merit a single response I suspect. For example, had the Mets just signed CJ Wilson and Jonathan Paplebon then adding James would’ve been called good AAA insurance, along with Garret Olson and Lucas May. However, it seems players like James suddenly become what can be considered tangible acquisitions, players who some feel like will be counted on to contribute significantly to the Major League team.
My point is that because of the Wilpon(zies) mess we as fans are reduced to debating at length the merits (or lack therof if you prefer) of signing fringe players who will likely spend the majority of next season in Buffalo. I don’t recall such debates back in the day when the Mets were spending every offseason. But since the team is essentially broke minor league signings become major additions. And this is NOT something you can blame on Sandy Alderson, JP Ricciardi, or Paul DePodesto. This mess predates their arrival and probably spurred their hiring. So for those who don’t like the “Big 3″ (and make no mistake I am NOT a fan of Alderson either), the blame goes back squarely to the Wilpons. Thanks Fred, Jeff, and Saul for this mess and for having to see Jose Reyes 18 times a year in those horrible Miami uniforms! There should be some sort of online petition to send to Bud Selig to force the Wilpons out of power in Flushing!
‘It’s amazing that a MINOR LEAGUE signing incites as much heated debate as this has’
Only on this site. And there’s a reason for that.
scrap heap sandy strikes again…….i think craig must have been hypnotised last night at the xmas party by the kiss butts to write trash like this
Off Topic:
Ken_RosenthalKen_Rosenthal: Sources: #Mets continue to be in regular contact with free-agent SS Jack Wilson. #MLB
http://twitter.com/#!/download/iphone
What is it with this Wilson guy? Are there no other SS’s available?
MNJ, what is up my friend, well, he’s cheap, he has a good defensive glove, he’s cheap, he can’t hit but he’s cheap… and um….. he’s cheap… yeah.. just how the great sandy likes em…
LoL, So he is a good glove. Got it.
68 tell it like it tiz.
Wilson is actually pretty decent. I hope the Mets can afford him.
You guys do know that AAA Buffalo is threatening to leave their affiliation with the Mets after their player development contract with the Mets expires after next season. And it is also the duty of a MLB GM to sign some 4A players to minor league deals to fill in spots on the AAA roster. And Chuck James is better than any upper level minors lefty reliever the Mets currently have in their farm system.
move someplace with better weather. Buffalo must be a terrible place to play early in the season.
actually, I gotta laugh about Buffalo getting all indigent that people aren’t treating it better!
From what I’ve read, every minor league affiliate does this. There is a game of “affiliate musical chairs” ever 2 or 4 years (the length of affiliate deals is 2 or 4 years)
It’s a minor league contract so no big deal as far as I’m concerned.
And while I can’t support the tone of the folks who mentioned it, I really do have to wonder if they even look at the ERA I mean do we really need more 4+ ERA type pitchers?
Couldn’t Misch do that for next to nothing?
James will do that for next to nothing. Remember, minor league contract.
it’s a roster issue.
Remember, guys like Misch reach the point where you either have to put them on the 40 man, or they can be FA> So, many of them move on to another team (their choice). And get replaced by a guy some other team could not keep.
doesn’t mean that each team didn’t prefer their own guy, just that the way the #s worked out they had to move on, and restock with fresh MiL invites that don’t require a 40 man spot.
sign everyone on a MiL deal/ST invite basis. The more the merrier. Then sort them out and see who can add value. Every team signs this type of guy anyway, not like Sandy is going off the reservation.
James? he was pretty good before getting hurt. And last year, he was healthy and very productive in the minors (and 10 innings in the majors isn’t enough to show anything_.
Key is, he is lefty, he was healthy, and he is depth if they need him. Possibly in the rotation, or to fill out the pen.
I really can’t see how it is a questoinable move, even if Sandy is the one that made it.
Trade Wright for a ML 3B or 3B prospect. Trade Bay for pitching. Sign Beltran again (still a stud) and put him back in RF. Duda in LF.
Torres CF
Turner 2B
Beltran RF
Davis 1B
Duda LF
3B 3B
Thole C
Tejada SS
P
not that terrible of a team, with some solid pitching we could make sum noise!
No one wanted Bay. Beltran is looking for a 3 year deal. Murph would be your 3B in this scenario.
chuck jams AHAHA you guys suck nd will always suck unce again the Phillies will rule the NL EAST and take home a WS titlke!!!! david WRONG is theworst 3B ever you have no SS and that bumbling bafoon DUDEA is in RF! AHAH terry collins = worst manager and dan warden cnt coach pitchers to save his life!! and tht new guy in CF is horrid amd will be awful again nd have fun with jash thole the WORST catcher ever!! PHILLY WS CHAMPS ’12
Stay Classy, Philadelphia.
To stay classy, that would infer they ever were, which we know never was……
Thanks for stopping by.
Phil, Phil, Phil….
You really should just stick to making your YouTube videos. Then again maybe you should not.
NSFW
http://youtu.be/x1dpWmXKoD8
phil — You lasted 33 seconds when I played your Youtube sham. Next time have something to say or keep your lips zipped.
For the record I was joking when I associated that person as being Phil. I have no way of knowing who Phil in actuality is.
dear phil your team resides in the rectum of new jersey. u are philadelphia and we are new york and no ws win will change that. now run along and worship your fictional hero rocky ,who since u don’t know fictional means, is fake. as fake as the city your team resides in…. as fake as u are.
You guys bicker over everything and anything here. Is there anything at all you that you actually agree with?
Yes, Oliver Perez.
maybe not. He kind of backed the Omar fans into a corner now.
Unlike you any, and your friends jessup and donal and kay and of course the long winded t agee, the onar fans have brains and defend his good moves and pan his bad ones. Too bad you worshippers of the lord can’t do that!
Off Topic: FWIW
Ken_Rosenthal (TV / Radio Personality) Sources: #Mets, Mariners now among teams on #Athletics’ Gio Gonzalez. #Marlins remain persistent. #Reds, #RedSox, #Rangers remain in. #MLB
http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/statuses/147527825417707520
What can we offer ? Offering Niese is stupid. I’d offer Wright for Gio plus a prospect. I’d offer the entire bullpen for Gio. I’d offer Dickey for Gio.
Over 80 comments (one being from a tool name Phil) over the signing of Chuck James? Are you kidding me? Craig, why do you like this move? James is a AAAA pitcher. He has yet to put it together in the majors and in my opinion, he should be strictly a relief pitcher. He shouldn’t go back to starting.
maybe ya want craig to talk about albert p. the reason he talks about this move is cause it’s the kinda move the broke ass met ownership makes.duh…duh…duh…pay attention pardner.
Maybe you should pay attention and at the same time, come up with better excuses rather than bullshit about moves the Mets ownership makes when fact is, every team makes depth moves like this. I asked WHY he thought the move was something to “potentially gain” when he’s gonna be in AAA Buffalo most of next season?
Time for your nap….
hitman, every team makes depth moves. sad to say the met big moves are depth moves for other teams.i am NOT interested in players procured to fill buffalo by geniusalderson, as u are.i say lets build a big league ballclub with big league playas.enjoy your summer in buffalo this years watching baxter bat .220.it will be more interesting than what is going on at citi…i assure u.i don’t make excuses for met ownership moves. i predict them years in advance. next time when u spit your fanfaronade on this space try not to use the term bullspit…..there are children on this space,pardner.