4
2011
Mets Inquired About Bailey, Will Likely Target Rauch, Lidge, Francisco
An article by Hojo's Mojo
According to Mike Puma of the New York Post, the Mets would love to trade for Oakland’s Andrew Bailey, but the more likely scenario has the Mets signing one or two relievers from a list that includes Frank Francisco, Jon Rauch, Brad Lidge and Matt Capps.
As you can read below, the Mets have checked in on Andrew Bailey, but found the A’s asking price to high and were unwilling to part with whatever it would take.
Original Post 12/1
No players were mentioned, but considering the impressive finish to the young right-hander’s season in 2011, I could hardly blame the A’s for wanting as much as they can get for their 23-year old closer.
Bailey, who won the AL Rookie of the Year award in 2009 (1.84 ERA, 26 saves), has battled through some injuries in the last two season’s, but when he’s on the mound there’s no mistaking the fact that this kid can bring it. His arsenal includes three plus pitches including a curveball, a cutter, and a four seam fastball that ranges 93–97 mph. He has excellent command of all three pitches.
In his three seasons in the majors, Bailey has a 2.04 ERA to go with a 0.954 WHIP in 157 games. He has allowed just 117 hits in 174 innings pitched while striking out 174 batters and doling out 49 walks.
He’s a true student of the game and spends hours analyzing film before each series because as he says. “to avoid the dreadful feeling of stepping onto the mound unprepared.” Bailey reportedly watches film not to study himself, but to break down the hitters he’ll face looking for tendencies, reactions, stances and signs of vulnerability he can exploit with his impressive trio of pitches.
The one downside to Bailey is his bout with injuries which has limited his playing time in the last two seasons. The injuries have ranged from a strained oblique to most recently a stiff forearm that sidelined him in April. He seemed fine once he returned.
While there’s no shortage of reports that the Mets will not be big players in the free agent market due to ongoing financial constraints, there now seems to be a growing sense that the front office is also unwilling to part with the prospects it would take to acquire players on the trade market as well. It’s kind of hard to navigate through this hot stove season with both these kinds of limitations, but it is what it is.
It’s too bad, because a pitcher like Bailey may have been just what the doctor ordered for the bullpen and would have been under team control through the 2015 season.
About the Author: Rob Johnson
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“It is what it is”? Maybe so, but there’s no reason for fans to accept this Wilponzian stage in our team’s history!
We will not show up to games this year, and revenues will continue to go down. Will the payroll in 2013 be $75 million then?
Exactly, the Mets will only make a deal if it lowers payroll. If the A’s wanted Bay the deal would be done.
i just wish i knew who the prospects were because you have to give something to get something because if it’s true that Santana is healthy and will be ready to go in ST than Bailey and Santana give this team instant credibility and than we can build from there.
This over the top love affair with prospects & draft picks is off the charts. I just read over at Metsblog about a commenter worrying about giving up 2 draft picks if Mets were to acquire Heath Bell. He’s worried about that, unbelievable. If the Mets were able to sign Heath Bell just sign him.
Andrew Bailey is 27 and could be well worth it.
What’s up Bay, longtime. Check this out: Buster Olney of ESPN.com speculates that the chances of Athletics closer Andrew Bailey getting traded this offseason are “about 100 percent.” The Reds, Mariners and Blue Jays are among the teams with reported interest in the right-hander.
Look at the teams that are competing against the Mets and not for money. MetsBlog brainwashed everybody they are literally nuts over there. All wish washy non-winning fans with pipe dreams of an all homegrown team. When you never tasted winning, you don’t really love it. What’s Cerrone like 5 years old when the Mets won in 86?
I’ve even asked Matt on Twitter what has happened to him that he can’t think for himself anymore and doesn’t he want to win? He’s a smart guy and didn’t get where he got by accident so what’s the deal. His reply was he always gets behind the Mets GM and was the same way in the past. That’s fair but you still gotta be able to think for yourself.
If this was 15 years ago Sandy would be raked over the coals by the fans and media alike for his inactivity. And I just wish we knew EXACTLY what the budget was so we can have a more accurate idea on how to go about playing GM here. This whole thing stinks about as worse as I’ve ever seen it.
I actually really like Bailey, but I think it’s a little unfair to assume people don’t want to win when the asking price is reportedly too much. We don’t even know what they asked for. What if as NJStuck says they asked for Harvey, would you be mad then?
At the end of the day, you can’t overpay for a closer when you have 3 other bullpen slots to fill, plus needs in the infield if Reyes leaves, plus a C, plus a starter or 2 etc.
Bailey is only 27 I agree that he could be a nice piece to have but at what cost? If you use tradeable pieces for a closer that you could maybe use for more vital roles, then aren’t you making a mistake?
Steve S: Kent is an interesting comparison based on age etc. But Kent is a Hall of Famer in my view so I think it’s a little premature to call Murphy the next Jeff Kent
Agree with all of this. The Mets do not have many chips and are we sure we want them to spend the ones they have on a closer when there may not be games to close if they don’t fix some of the other holes.
Well Jess you have to admit that there doesn’t appear to be anything that bisn’t TOO MUCH for this FO unless it’s under 2 Mil per year….
If they wanted Harvey there are ways to work around that by trying to substitute Pelfrey or Gee in his place. Throw in more players that would help them fill in for all those guys the A’s plan on dumping.
Looking for bargains is all well and good but INSISTING on bargains is not going to work.
It would appear that any player worth more than the price of bad dirt is TOO MUCH for this crew!
Personally I don’t see why Closer is such a priority for the FO at all. I doubt highly whoever they get will actually get a whole lot of save opportunities. Especially if reyes goes.
Even if they sign Reyes at best (and unlikely) they will win the same amount or less than they did last year. Remember we also lost Beltran’s bat as well!
Santana is a question mark, Pelfrey is a coin flip, Gee still has to show last year win column wasn’t a fluke and the BP in front of the closer is not all that much different than last year’s at this point.
So to trade for a situational player whose situation may not come up a lot seems to be putting the cart before the horse.
So I’m not upset they didn’t get this guy at all right now. They need other things before they can win and get to the situation this guy would contribute to!
And since they signed Pridie alreay that says to me if they had approached them before they let Pridie go they could have put him into that package to make the deal. Would have taken more than that but maybe not as much as a Harvey, We have lots of guys we don’t like or have room for to substitute for Harvey.
Metsie, all due respect you’re asking the A’s to accept quantity over quality. There’s no way if the Mets were in the A’s spot here you’d be willing to take a Pelf or Gee rather than Harvey. Pelf, lets just cross that off. He’s not an attractive trade piece. Gee, what does he do for the As? Not a whole lot.
I totally disagree with your premise on the Pridie deal. They signed him to a minor league deal. That doesn’t tell me they value him enough to throw him in a trade. They got him for cheaper than a trade, that’s why they signed him.
Again, when you put guys like Bailey/Gio on a “public” market, you’re looking for quality first, quantity second. They don’t HAVE to trade these guys
No way? What did the Mets take for an All Star closer last year?
Which top 10 prospect did we INSIST on for trding him?
As for pridie they signed him to a Minor League deal…So he would be just as good if TRADED and placed in their MiL!
What does Gee do for them? Allow them to now trade one of their starters for more kids knowing they have a cheap and effective guy to take his place in the rotation!
If the A’s were REALLY all about Quality they would get rid of the players that they are trading in the first place!
They are like us interested in reducing payroll and getting lots of kids they can then trade for other kids or develop into MLB players that they do not have to pay a lot!
Gee fits that! Pelfrey is still cheap comparatively, Evans or Pridie also fit that bill.
The closer they are trading is NOT WORTH a Harvey! Sorry thats a steal for them not something they are going to get from ANYONE!
They would take Quantity because they can turn that quantity around for the Kids they do want!
Yes they DO have to trade those guys they are moving to San Jose which is an een smaller market than Oakland is!
They need to cut salary as much as we do!
Metsie, you’re comparing a 27 year old closer in his 4th year who made $465,000 in 2011 to a 29 year old closer making $12mil with an option attached worth $17mil. Surely you can see there is a slight difference between their trade values right? KRod wasn’t even traded to a team who used him as a closer….
You’re wrong about Pridie. If a team can sign a player to a Minor league deal, why would they want him involved in a trade? Giving something up for a player you can sign to a MiL deal is silly.
You’re actually not painting a fair picture about San Jose to Oakland.
San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose SHARE the same TV Market size. So just in that term you’re not accurate in saying Oakland to SJ is a smaller market. But
Oakland is a dreary crime filled area which hasn’t supported it’s team in ages. San Jose is a thriving young city outside of San Fran. San Jose is also a corporate hot bed. It’s got low crime rates.
People want to GO to San Jose. People drive through Oakland.
So saying they are cutting costs to be an even smaller market team is not fair.
“Only BEAN COUNTER take salary into consideration!”
You’re setting a record for ridiculous and untrue statements made in a single day you know.
“Funny how you think lesser players are worth TOP kids but All Stars are not!”
FYI – Bailey an All-Star 2 out of last 3 years. KRod 1 out of 3.
“If it is then you had better revisit your opinion that K-Rod’s trade (who was a PREMIERE closer in the MLB) was worth what we got!”
So “preimiere” that the team acquiring him felt more comfortable with John Axford closing and no other team seemed interested in swooping in and trading for him.
“And you even admitted as much in your replies about the scouting! You admit you can;’t do what scouts do!”
That’s because I’m not an idiot and recognize scouts have the job they have for a reason. If you or I could do what they do, guess what? We’d be scouts.
Metsie, this is getting silly again. Kinda like when you said you never said something so I quoted exactly what you said to prove you wrong and you still denied it.
Francisco Rodriguez in 2007, and 2008 is not what you trade for in July of 2011. You trade for Francisco Rodriguez 2011. Nobody cares what KRod did in 2007, that doesn’t translate to today. Again if his value was so high the Mets would have gotten better offers, and a team would want him to be their closer not a set up man.
Finally, Let me explain this to you very clearly.
Me thinking I’m not better than scouts is not an insecurity. It’s reality. If I could do a better job than scouts, then I’d be a scout.
So I suggest once again if you feel you can do a better job then submit an application and wait to see how many phone calls you get.
Since you feel your talents out weigh those of MLB Scouts and Baseball America journalists, I suggest you look into those career options.
“You’re setting a record for ridiculous and untrue statements made in a single day you know. ”
I Got a long way to go before I surpass you and your cheerleader Donal!
“That’s because I’m not an idiot and recognize scouts have the job they have for a reason”
No you just an insecurity and inadequacy complex instead! LOL
How many All star games did K-Rod appear in compared to Bailey Huh?
Manipulating and cherry picking ranges is the oldest con game in the statistical book you know!
NO ONE falls for that anymore!
Cept maybe you and your cheerleader Donal!
It’s silly because you mae it silly with your crap about how K-Rod is not a good a closer or worth as much as the guy from oakland!
Silly when the fact the guy wore a met jersey he is worth squat from then on!
Silly when you say you are not qualified to judge and dicern quality player then go on a rant about who you think we should get!
THATS where the silliness started and this is where it ends!
From now on I will simply remind you that you think you are not qualified to judge players everytime to try and evaluate one!
End of argument!
KRod was a 29 year old closer making 12 million with a 17million dollar option with 3 months of service for whatever team he went to
Bailey is 27, made 465k in 2011, and would be with his new team for longer than 3 months.
You are not understanding VALUE passed seeing things through mets colored glasses. Was it a secret that KRod was avail during the season? No. So are you suggesting the Mets took a worse offer to trade him? If not, then wouldn’t there be more out there for him if his value was so over the moon?
And no you’re claiming that you can do a scouts job just as well as they can. To a normal logical thinking human being, that would be ridiculous. You don’t know more about the game than the scouts who have jobs Metsies. No matter how much you kick and scream here, you’re not all knowing.
If you think you have what it takes to be a prominent scout in the sport, then go apply for a job and prove me wrong.
Old Blah Blah, Money, Blah Blah Sandy Rah Rah, Young blah blah blah Money, Draft Picks, blah blah blah, Sandy Genius blah blah blah blah Value, Bal Cheap Blah Blah Blah
Idiot, Blah Blah Blah, Not Serious Blah Blah Blah, Can’t helop you Blah Blah Blah!
Broken record dude! Thats what all your posts come down to!
I’m comparing a KNOWN ALL STAR’s return compared to a merely DECENT closer!
I’m comparing PERFORMANCE not Salary!
I know you all about the Salary but the truth is an All star is far more worth a top prospect than some guy who hasn’t done as much in the MLB!
If that guy is cheap then why are they trading him at all?
Metsie
“I’m comparing a KNOWN ALL STAR’s return compared to a merely DECENT closer! I’m comparing PERFORMANCE not Salary! I know you all about the Salary but the truth is an All star is far more worth a top prospect than some guy who hasn’t done as much in the MLB!”
Okay first of all, if you don’t account for salary when trading a guy then you’re doing something terribly wrong.
Secondly, Bailey hasn’t done much in the MLB? He won Rookie of the Year in 2009, and in his 1st 3 years he’s been an All-Star. Now I’m not suggesting they trade top specs for him, but if he’s proven to be healthy his value based on performance+salary FAR outweighs KRod’s.
Plus Bailey has never had to take anger management classes which don’t for a second think that whole scene from 2010 isn’t a factor in KRod’s value.
Only BEAN COUNTER take salary into consideration!
Funny how you think lesser players are worth TOP kids but All Stars are not!
From the rest of what you said it seems like you think trading Harvey is a good move for this guy!
If it is then you had better revisit your opinion that K-Rod’s trade (who was a PREMIERE closer in the MLB) was worth what we got!
It’s is comical that anyone who has worn a Met jersey is WORTHLESS to you yet someone on another team is wirth the skies!
That tells us everything we need to know about your evaluatin skills and view of Salary over performance!
And you even admitted as much in your replies about the scouting!
You admit you can;’t do what scouts do!
If so why should we listen to what you think since you don’t actually think anything just listen to what some other guy said?
Why would the A’s, in the position they are in, want those guys that we don’t want? Murphy and Gee would not get it done and then who takes Gee’s spot in the rotation anyway? What is more important to THIS Mets team? An under priced starter or closer?
Because Quantity can be a subtitute for Quality!
They are pretty much trying to have a fire sale there as much as we are!
To do that they will need lots of players to replace the ones they are trying to sell.
Who said Murphy and Gee would not get it done? Where was that mentioned?
No one said anything about what they wanted we are all just assuming it was harvey.
Does it really matter who takes Gee’s spot? Is having Gee going to put us into the playoffs (Same excuse given for letting Reyes go!) Maybe Chris Young rehabs well and takes his place?.
What is more important to this team?
JOSE REYES! Without him there is no point in having an underpriced starter or a decent closer!
Replacing Beltran’s bat is more important than a closer!
There are a ton of things more important than a cheap starter or good closer right now!
So I fail to see what your point was on the importance issue.
If the slashers are correct and we are not going to be winning anything in the next two years then we don’t need a closer either!
Wait until Harvey and Familia are ready to come up to get one or trade off Pelfrey or Gee (maybe even Niese if thats what they want) so you have the closer here once Harvey and Familia are ready!
If we are going to play this as a rebuild with kids focus then we should be trading for kids with the kids we have not some closer that won’t get enough save opportunities to be worth having.
I am confused. Are you arguing for or against trading for Bailey? LOL. Looks to me like you are outlining a perfect case for NOT trading for a closer.
Well first off we aren’t trading for a closer are we? Thats what the aryticle seems to suggest!
I AM suggesting that all these reports that we ARE interested are coming from Sandy and his actions seem to suggest it’s just a smokescreen to try to dupe some fans into renewing season tickets thinking he might not actually be dismantling the franchise!
EVERY deal and player we have been rumored to be involved in has ended with the phrase “TOO MUCH!”
Sandy is not interested in ANYTHING here but cutting payroll.
The rest is all just rumor and propaganda to hide that fact!
hey Maniac someone heard you…
JoeandEvan Ev does the tweeting
Not sure what Oakland would say, but I would deal Daniel Murphy for Andrew Bailey…I would not deal Duda for Bailey…
I just think it would take much more than Murphy. I think it would take a top 10 prospect as well. Which one you want to give up with Murphy to get him. Also, I know Murphy is not a favorite of some and some still think he can never play 2B. However, IF they don’t sign Reyes then who plays 2B? No one in the system is really ready and Turner is to me a worse option than Murphy. If they don’t have Reyes and there is no Murphy in the lineup then the offense will be in terrible shape.
I sure would give up a top 10 prospect – it depends on who he is. We’re talking Andrew Bailey here and you have to give to get. Bailey and Santana? That’s a good start and with the rest of the Mets lineup? I’d say bye bye Mr. Top 10 whoever you are.
Again, it depends who it is. Again, the love affair for prospects has gone off the charts.
I guess I just don’t get how you can blindly offer a Top 10 prospect for a closer to come in here for an under .500 team with money issues? What good is he going to do here?
And can we be fair and say Daniel Murphy’s trade value is unknown because of his recent string of injuries?
We seem to just say he’s so tradeable but how many GM’s are willing to “pay” a high price tag for a guy who just severely hurt his MCL. And had a severe knee injury in 2010.
I think we’re also forgetting Bailey hasn’t exactly proven to be a healthy guy lately. I’m pretty sure since 2010 he’s had 4 throwing arm issues. That doesn’t bother anybody here?
Of course it depends on who it is… But do you really think that Murphy and Fmart will get it done? LOL. The Mets have very few chips and they’d better be careful where they spend them.
I didn’t say FMart so please don’t decide for me. Actually now that you brought up his name he’s one guy i would try to avoid parting with because he’s still very young and I want to see more.
Actually I am not sure he is even top 10 anymore and I don’t see him being traded so you get your wish there.
Lets narrow this down a little then:
Wheeler, Harvey, Nimo, Familia, Puello, Mejia, Kirk, Fulmer, Havens, Flores.
Who from this list would you pair WITH Murphy for a closer with an injury history?
If the A’s asked for Nimmo with Murphy I would drive Nimmo to the airport myself
Regardless of any opinions on the kid, the Mets can’t trade Nimmo until after the 2012 amateur draft
Seriously? The guy was our 1st pick in the draft. That would go down in baseball history as one of the most laughable trades of all-time. I am not saying Nimo will be good but you don’t trade your #1 pick in the draft the very next year for an oft injured closer.
sure you worry about a kid who was just drafted and has all of 40 ABs or so hitting .211
You worry about what MIGHT HAPPEND 5 or 7 years from now when he may or may not be the next Alex Ochoa..and that’s IF he even survives in pro ball.
I’ll worry about acquiring a successful albeit recently injured reliever for an oft injured player with no position and some kid who we have NO IDEA what he will be years from now. And outfielders can be signed at anytime..and especially if the Mets are in better financial situation 5 years from now.
Murphy and Nimmo for Andrew Bailey? DONE DEAL NOW as far as I’m concerned
That’s just not smart baseball and the Mets would be more of a laughing stock than they are right now. You can’t trade your 1st pick in the draft the next year (would have to be a PTBNL anyway) for a closer. It just isn’t done.
Whey you talk about a team top 10 prospects, it all depends on the team. Trading a Mets top 10 prospect is not the same as trading a Royals or Rays top 10 prospect who have suprerior systems. To assess how bad the Mets top 10 prospects are let me remind you that a pitching prospect who was traded for a one month rental with bad knees skyrocketed to the top of the Mets prospects list after the Beltran trade. Yes, I’m talking about Mets #1 prospect Zack Wheeler. And a 17 year old who didn’t play baseball in high school that was only drafted six months ago and hasn’t gotten his feet wet yet is now the Mets #2 ranked prospect. That should tell you all you need to know about Mets prospects.
Prospects are ranked based on talent ceiling, and views of scouts and other baseball people around the league, not based on statistical performance.
I have absolutely no idea what Nimmo will be one day. But there are people out there who’s job it is to project that sort of thing and they seem to like him. It’s not as though Sandy Alderson has influence over the people who make these lists. Other people have to feel good about Nimmo for him to be ranked so high.
Unfortunately those are the same scouts that said the same things about F-Marts ceiling. F-Mart was never ranked on performance, but his ceiling and perceived potential. Truth is the scouts are wrong more than 75% of the time.
I agree scouts are wrong a lot, but they are less wrong about projecting a players ceiling than you or I.
I’m not sure why downplaying the views of scouts is so accepted here? Baseball America tells you and I more about the minor leagues than any GM will ever tell you.
Each team out there doesn’t believe Nimmo is #3 in Mets system. Teams have views of what they like and don’t like. But you can’t just toss BAmerica aside simply because it’s been wrong.
I find it slightly funny that people who hate everything about Moneyball are the same people who often come here and downplay the value of scouts for Baseball America.
Metsie:
“And thats only because they actually see the kid play but if we got to see them I bet we would be just as good at picking winners as they are!”
So you’re saying if you got to see every amateur player in the draft pool play a few games you’d be able to accurately project their ceiling when they turn 24, 25? Have you submitted your resume to teams to be a scout yet?
“So this notion that Scouts are better at knowing who is good and who is not is totally based on the fact they go and see them play and we don’t because we have to work and don’t get PAID to do what the scouts do!”
This is getting slightly comical.
“You know who should be used to make up BA’s list? High School and College coaches!”
Yeah that makes sense. Have the guys who have something to gain by talking up a kid’s value be the ones who submit reports. Every coach loves their players, and every kid who gets published or drafted only increases the clout a coach has.
“Scouts just watch them play, don’t really get to know the kid that much and if some statisitical information was even SLIGHTLY used then maybe there wouldn’t be so many misses!”
Actually not true at all. I’m starting to wonder if you understand what a scout does? You understand that when scouts like a player they have conversations with them right? You get that don’t you?
Metsie
Here’s my suggestion to you, because replying to your exhausting message will cause a silly debate I don’t have time for.
My suggestion to you is to log off of MMO for the day because frankly I’m tired of reading crazy. Write up a nice cover letter and resume, and send it to every MLB team in the league suggesting that you should be hired as a scout. Be sure to include your scouting report on Wright and Pelfrey because they will certainly bring it home.
Regardless of what you think their worth is or how accurate they are, you could make a very good living at scouting since you apparently have it all figured out.
I look forward to hearing about whcih team wisely offers you a gig, hopefully it’s a Steve Nebraska-like atmosphere where you receive several blind bids in envelopes.
Best of luck to you.
BA will never apologize for being wrong.. plain and simple.. just ask seattle about justin smoak.. todd van poppel in oakland etc…
hell, look at the royals and the pirates.. how many years and counting have they sucked!?!?
And thats only because they actually see the kid play but if we got to see them I bet we would be just as good at picking winners as they are!
People think fans can’t SEE what is good and what is not and that you need some knowledge of the game to know for sure.
We decide what is good and bad every year!
When we go to see a game we know who is good and who is not without having to breakdown his swing mechanics or stats!
So this notion that Scouts are better at knowing who is good and who is not is totally based on the fact they go and see them play and we don’t because we have to work and don’t get PAID to do what the scouts do!
Why do we downplay the views of scouts?
Becuase they tout as many BUSTS as they tout successes!
You know who should be used to make up BA’s list?
High School and College coaches!
They know how COACHABLE a kid is and what his true flaws are!
Scouts just watch them play, don’t really get to know the kid that much and if some statisitical information was even SLIGHTLY used then maybe there wouldn’t be so many misses!
Reply to Alex:
And they will not stop using a scout as a source no matter how wrong he has been either!
It’s not BA that is the real problem here it is the fact that there is no accountability for the people they use to make thier list up.
BA says the Mets don’t have a lot of good kids but I’m sure the Met scouts feel otherwise!
And if they are wrong the Mets will fire them!
Not really the case at BA! They have their guys they call for input and don’t change that list based on their success or failure rate!
“hell, look at the royals and the pirates.. how many years and counting have they sucked!?!?”
that has more to do with the big club not keeping their stars than BA being wrong about their prospects.
Yep! And I’m saying you could too!
Tell me this, You saw plenty of ABs from David wright last year.
You don’t think you could tell anyone what his problems were in his swing?
You couldn’t conclude just by what you saw that he was so focused on pulling the ball that he became vulnerable to the low outside breaking ball and know that if corrected he could hit 25-30 HRs?
You couldn’t tell that Reyes was successful because he laid off the high strikes and bad pitches and if he continued to do that he would hit for a very high average? (as he did!)
Here is something you don’t seem to take into account.
MOST of the baseball you watch is MLB caliber!
MOST of the baseball the scouts watch are HS, College and MiL caliber.
YOU see more MLB baseball than most scouts do (at least the ones who work for BA anyway! there are MLB scouts who scout MLB players as well they don’t contribute much to BA’s list!)
So you know a good MLB player when you see one don’t you?
If not then I’m sorry but I pretty much see a guy play in the MLB and can tell you if he is a good player or not, what he is good at, what he is suspect at, what he needs to work on, and what he simply is not capable of.
So YES I can project how good a guy can be and even tell you what he needs to improve on to get better!
If you can;’t do that well then thats a personal problem of yours not mine!
Here is my scouting on a guy like Pelfrey.
Has the pitches and the stuf to win ballgames.
Does not use that stuff properly,
Gets caught up on using the same pitch consecutively and not a lot of variety.
Relies on his cutter too much.
Has no plan of attack on the mound.
He’s a thrower not a Pitcher!
Does not use his fastball or challenge hitters inside enough.
gives into adversity!
He needs to set up hitters in the first two times around the order and dopesn’t.
This leads to him getting hit and hit hard third time around.
Needs to learn how to pitch instead of relying on the movement of his stuff to fool the batter!
If the guy learns how to Pitch instead of throw could be an All star pitcher and 20 game winner!
Now if you couldn’t do that or figure that out on your own then it would explain why we differ so much in the direction this team should be going!
You need to rely on others and I rely on myself and MY OWN knowledge to evaluate the players.
And I will look at the stats to ensure what I think is actually true!
None of the guys on BA’s list are cross referenced there!
Nimmo is on and what are his numbers?
And I suggest you lay off MMO for a month because Sandy doesn’t need a cheerleader to explain and make excuses for him!
Especially not one who admits he can’t scout or tell what a player will do when he sees him play!
As for my employment opportunities in the MLB?
I make 4 times what any scout does!
And I make it in far fewer workdays than they do as well!
So I don’t need to be employed by them.
Maybe it’s an enticing and MYSTICAL MAGICAL job only BRILLIANT minds can do…
That says more about you than what is actually required to be a good baseball scout sad to say!
And since you do not think you have what it takes to be a scout it is YOU who should give MMO a rest for awhile and stop trying to convince everyone on what you think we should do after admitting YOUR NOT QUALIFIED to know a damn thing as far as what is a good player and what is not!
STOP TRYING!
Sure they are but so are guys in the stock market. However, how the people looking at the stock view the stock is more important than it’s current stats. Prospects are basically stocks anyway.
I hope all the kids the mets have turn into studs, but it won’t happen unfortunately, from what i saw in nimmo and his 211 BA scouts backed up right away.. that’s why the articles about nimmo and what he was eating stopped..
i like fulmer, harvey, familia, niesen, gorski… vaughn, kirk N, lagares, gilber gomez, wilmer, and o0thers as well.. imo, i see nimmo here if sandy is around, if a GM that wants to win comes here he’d be traded.. sell high why you can…
Joe, the scouts may have been wrong, but the farm system didn’t help him by over hyping and rushing him and mistreating his health issues.
Right! They are based on PROJECTIONS not actual performance!
Which is why saying anyone on the list is more valuable than some guy who has performed in the MiL is the most rediculous methodology going!
Nimmo PROJECTS as good. If he never performs better than Evans is his still a better prospect?
BA’s list is nothing more than a GUESS factor on how high he MIGHT do.
And most of the guys who get on that list never meet those lofty projections!
F-MART tells you everything you need to know about their lists!
metsie, don’t forget ochoa, paul wilson, alex escobar just to name a few….
LOL Thanks Alex I would love to see the success rate of all players listed on BA’s list over the past 10 years and see just how right they were on the whole!
Sure a lot of the All Stars in the league were named on the list because good players also scout well!
And more interesting would be to see all the All Stars who NEVER made the top 100 list!
I bet quite a few never made the list who are now major players in the MLB!
Actually you missed Harvey:
1. Zack Wheeler, rhp
2. Matt Harvey, rhp
3. Brandon Nimmo, of
4. Jeurys Familia, rhp
5. Cesar Puello, of
6. Jenrry Mejia, rhp
7. Kirk Nieuwenhuis, of
8. Michael Fulmer, rhp
9. Reese Havens, 2b
10. Wilmer Flores, ss
According to Baseball America.
That list is not as bad as you think IMO.
Yes, thanks, I did forget Harvey was #2.
I think position player wise, it’s weak as hell. However, the pitching in the top 10 shows a lot of promise. In fact 3 of them may in fact come out in Baseball America’s top 50. Then factor in Mejia to that list as well as some of the young guys and it looks to be turning around.
Well joe it might say something about the prospects we have but it could also tell you how much empirical evidence BA uses to populate their list of top prospects as well!
I mean what has Nimmo done to deserve being placed on the list to date?
It would seem to me that if you got taken by a team and haven’t scared anyone off yet with your performance you can make the BA top prospect list!
Yet guys who have PROVED they are better by performing for a few years are no where to be seen on their list!
All BA’s list uses is how well a kid scouts not how well he does!
Sure good scouting should identfy good performers but BA doesn’t wait for that performance to annoint you a top prospect!
Which is one reason why I don’t put much stock in their rankings.
F-Mart used to be a top prospect on their list!
Where is he now?
Unfortunatly BA doesn’t fire scouts who highly tout guys who turn out to do nothing!
They just sweep the misses under the carpet and name the next guy those scouts now think is going to be as good as they once thought F-Mart was!
Basically performance isn’t required to put you ON the list, it is only used to take you off it!
I was wondering the same thing. If they were asking for Harvey or Wheeler, no, I wouldn’t do it, but if a package of Murphy + Flores + another, I don’t see why the team wouldn’t pull the trigger on that. Wonder what they were asking for.
Here’s the reason why. Flores still has more value than that and right now if the Mets lose Reyes where is the offense going to come from if they trade Murphy? Are their better 2B options on the market for good prices or Closers? Right now the closer market is flooded. I like Bailey and it is smart they are checking in on him.
I hear you Holmes. I wouldn’t say the closer market is flooded, but there are plenty of options, so I won’t nitpick that. Like you stated below, you’d be surprised at what his value is. And like any good GM would do, you ask for the moon. So I’m sure Beane asked for more than what I put forth. Bailey is going to cost more than our AAAA types and Murphy alone would never get that deal done.
So, here’s a thought if Murphy + Flores is too much for Bailey alone. Ask for Bailey and Cahill. Flores (or something at his caliber) + Murphy + Gee + another (Parnell?). Maybe it even takes a 5th person. Or you consider asking for Gio instead of Cahill? You hold onto the top prospects and you don’t let any of the pitching prospects go.
And don’t get me wrong. I’m a founding member to Team Go Big Murph (patent pending), but I still think Murph’s best value will be as a trade chip for this team. With Havens and Marte and others starting to knock on the door, Duda as a very serviceable backup to Ike should he break down, combined with Murph getting older and still not having a position, he’s best served as helping to upgrade an area of need elsewhere on the team.
I am not opposed to trading Murphy in the right deal. As for your trade proposal and making it much larger… I just don’t think it would work. The A’s can get MUCH more for those guys in separate trades. We are really in a bad situation in terms of trade. Our trading chips for the most part are either AAAA players that only have value really to us OR are guys that we really don’t want to part with like Harvey and Wheeler. Guys like Fmart and Flores are chips but their value is at it’s lowest and would not even combined bring in a top of the rotation starter.
Understood. I would certainly try to acquire Bailey, but not at the cost of a top prospect nor any of our upper to top pitching prospects. Ideally Murphy +1-2 others would get it done, but things don’t normally roll as ideal. Good seeing you around. Hopefully basketball isn’t killing you.
LOL, close. That is why I am on here. Too tired to get up from my desk…
Scouting Monday night, home at midnight.
.
Game Tuesday night, in bed 1 am.
Scouting last night, home by 11
Combine that with getting up at 5:30 every morning. Good times.
I’m not even that big of an Andrew Bailey fan, but I’m more concerned that we cant even pull a trigger on a deal for a non-star like this who has an injury history. This is getting ridiculous. So the only deals we can do are salary dumps or trades for bums like Hu and Dykstra. I mean seriously, nobody has a problem with this???
Thing is this is not about money, who do they have to trade that would entice the A’s to pull the trigger?
I understand. This may be out there and I havent had my coffee yet, but when you look at the types of hitter Beane goes after, Daniel Murphy would be right up his alley and will have a home at the DH spot or third base and is cheap. Add to that Bobby Parnell or Pedro Beato and it sounds like a good fit. Bailey isn’t an all star or elite closer and he has risk, he can’t be worth a whole lot.
I think you would be surprised at his value. While he is an injury risk, his numbers are very good and his price is even better. Think of what a guy like Fransisco Cordero is going to get at age 900. As for Murphy, that could be someone they would be interested in but I would expect they would prefer to have younger guys with higher potential.
Therealsince 1986… ahhh, the good old days… Hope everything is good my friend
It is! Our blog my work blocks the comment section but this one is so extreme it’s not really a fit for me but Metsblog sure isn’t either. I still consider ours the happy medium.
LOL, yeah, this one is very good. you should try it more often.. is always good to argue and debate with someone who at least will keep it baseball related..
i think that’s a great start, Murphy is right up the A’s alley. But losing Evans hurts in this case cuz he could have been the righty backup to Duda and Davis.
So we can have Santana and Bailey as the strengths of the pitching staff. We would HAVE to sign Reyes and that leaves us w/infield of Davis, Tejada, Reyes, & Wright. Bay in LF, Duda in RF and i would consider CF still open.
That’s a good start but i just wish we had an exact number to work with for the budget!
Sign Bell, along with Francisco and Dotel. And we should be trading for guys like Thornton and Danks (dumping Pelfrey), and signing Reyes. It’s not like the budget will expand that much. In fact, it would be down substantially. The Wilponzis are ruining this team. New Yorkers are not going to accept this regime and its ways.
Stick Murphy at 2B, instruct him, and keep him there. He’s the new Jeff Kent, albeit better at the same age (check their OPS+ ratings). The INF will be great then.
The OF? I’d give Bay one more chance to play regularly (same with Pagan and Thole). Duda will provide added power (along with Davis and Wright).
Well, the title of this article said the mets asked.. i wonder if they said ok, not interested when a proposal was presented.. seriosly, i haven’t heard any news on the mets being serious about anybody, other than mets blogs everywhere giving trade ideas and suggestions about this guy and that guy, not a single word from sandy and co.. is amazing how 3 gm’s, 3!! can’t come up with an idea to make a trade.. yet, the man was touted as a genius.. where’s the genius in what he is doing? baily for murphy? how about wright and pagan for bailey and gio gonzales or hell, even carhill.. i leave murphy at 3rd base and we have a
SP and a BP guy who can close.. cheapens the payroll and acquire pitching, the more pitching we have the better..
That’s another amazing thing that you never hear about in the press. The Mets have THREE General Managers all from the same philosophy and this is what we get.
Amazing.
Hey it’s my buddy. I knew I should not have ventured out today.
Here is my question, how do you know that the Mets are not in on any one? Isn’t it possible that this group is much more close to the vest and uh… professional than our leadership in the past?
Also, isn’t it possible that despite reports the Mets are kind of stuck waiting on Reyes before making a lot of other moves?
Also, isn’t it possible that uh… no one is really making any moves yet?
Agree 100%.
Looking at the latest FA tracker over on TRDM, I’m not seeing the NYY listed anywhere yet either.
SRT.. the yankees don’t have as many holes as the mets, ohhh, and by the way, the guy who were about to leave the yankees to test free agency was signed EVEN before free agency started… that says a lot right there… meanwhile, sandy was gung ho about his picks once reyes leaves he basically was knocking on the commissioner’s door asking for his picks even if the new CBA kicks in.. is embarrassing and pathetic..
They have 1 proven, reliable starter. They have problems at catcher. Their left side of the infield is old and injured.
and Sabbathia knew he was going to get his best deal from the Yankees. He had no intention of leaving. He just wanted to long term security.
You are right, the Yankees don’t have as many holes. Yet they ARE expected to fill everyone of those with the best player available.
The Mets are in a completely different situation this year. Sure they want to stay competitive but come on there is not a FA move or trade out there this year that is going to make them a favorite in the division. Why sacrifice the future for a farce?
TRS86, i know noone is not making moves yet, but given the season the mets had, and the offseason alderson had, shouldn’t alderson and his goons be a little more aggressive? wasn’t that what he promised mets fans after having the worst offseason of any GM in mets history? last year? come on man.. at least the marlins are wining and dinning good players.. what are the mets doing? signing pascucci has been the only mets news so far.. teams are already making moves, signing people, what is going on here?!
Wait, the Marlins are playing a full out bait and switch with the fans, but you think that is better than Alderson deciding not to conduct business through the media?
Man I was beginning to think I was the ONLY one seeing this. They are bringing in all the big names and have yet to make a competitive offer to any of them.
This is where we always disagree. Doing stuff because it’s fun and exciting as opposed to doing stuff because it is necessary and effective. The Marlins are in a completely different situation yet still with all their “show” they don’t have anything to show for it either.
Again, we still have no idea how aggressive they are being.
trs – short answer is NO.
Please don’t compare this leadership to past leadership just yet because you’ll embarrass yourself. Omar and Steve Phillips already had this team going into the playoffs by their 2nd year WHILE keeping the fan base excited (and I KNOW everyone here was one of those excited fans during those years)..and Sandy inherited a stronger roster than both of those guys did as well.
Also don’t include Cashen as a barometer for the rebuilding process because he inherited a terrible roster that had been bad for years and although he admitted it was going to be a rebuilding process at LEAST he still made trades and signed free agents while TRYING TO COMPETE. It’s also not unfair, at this point, to say Sandy is well on his way to being one of the WORST GM in Mets history although that is still up in the air….at this point.
Hey I have heard about you and to think you and your infinite wisdom could ever embarrass me? Seriously? Do you know who I am… LOL.
Stepping back and waiting for the comical storm getting ready to ensue.
Ya, how did Cashen’s first 2 big deals work out? Were they exciting?
And ya, keep singing the praises of Philips and ignore the work done by McIlvaine. And keep praising Minaya who either flat out lied to us or abandoned his plan altogether.
Ya, he got to the playoffs in his second year. What happened then? He was here for 6 years.
There are a lot of these rumors around for every team. It’s writers being bored and wanting to jump on what could one day become a kind of story.
Sure it is, the Mets like 90% of the teams are not doing much of anything yet. Waiting on the winter meetings and Rule 5 draft. I expect even the Mets to be a little busier between now and the holidays.
oh yeah sandy is just so honest,please.
what?
It appears fairly obvious to me that Bailey cleared through the “exploratory phase” as a live candidate precisely because of his injury history. The FO appears to have been hoping for a discount from the A’s due to the injury history. It didn’t work out that way as his performance overshadowed the injuries. So what’s next? The exploratory phase will need to continue to identify an affordable closer. The FO will now have to focus on older closers with more serious injuries and a lower level of performance. When they identify the proper broken soup bone, we will have a closer.
I like Bailey and he is obviously a better option but I think Street might be more up the Mets alley considering what the Rockies are trying to do. I still think there is a fit there.
Street and Garen do have issues, though.
Very true but I would expect that not to be an issue. I just think a Pelfrey for Street trade could solve a lot of issues for BOTH teams. .
i heard they asked about Dooley Womack also.
I would love to know how much is too much to this front office!
Anything above the price of unproccessed cow dung seems to be too much to these guys.
Based on reports, they are willing to spend on a closer and are able to go multiple years. This one is not about price in terms of money but in terms of personnel.
Based on reports?
No more like based on their media statements…Which is nothing more than propaganda!
Facts tend to suggest otherwise!
See NATHAN and BROXTON!
Broxton signed a 1 year 4 Mil deal with 1 mil in incentives. They supposedly REALLY wanted him but they couldn’t offer him a two or three year deal at 4 Mil per for a guy they “REPORTEDLY” “REALLY WANTED”?
They say they are willing to go multiyear on a closer and a good one for decent money but only if you believe DECENT MONEY = Less than 4 Mil per!
Part of what is POing fans off about this FO is their statements say one thing and their actions say it’s a lie!
They say we are going to make 2012 be meaningful but then act as meaningfull is all about a clean ledger with no red ink.
They say they have showed interest in a player who when asked says Hmmmm Thats news to me!
They say they are willing to pay decent money and multiple years to a good closer and two good guys then sign elsewhere to deals that were easily beatable both in money and years yet they signed elsewhere.
The problem here is that the fans aren’t the only ones who see what is going on here.
The players and agents also see the dismantling of the franchise and are not going to be too anxious to sign a multiyear deal at the prices Sandy wants unless there is winning at the end of that rainbow.
Sandy needs to stop talking to the press and start talking to the agents and the GMs more!
Cause what he is saying to the press is undone by the actions he has taken so far!
If he wants to get ahead he needs to assure the world reyes is here and winning is possible.
Then he might get someone to acept what Sandy deems as a DECENT salary in order to play here.
All this talk and reports of the Mets plans are just lip service hoping to minimize the loss of season ticket sales due to the seen dimantling of this francise of all it’s best players.
Joe Nathan signed with the team that has gone to the WS 2 years straight. What’s a better opportunity to be a closer? Mets or Rangers?
Broxton signed a deal with the Royals to be a set up man. I realize this comes off to you as pro-Sandy but doesn’t that tell you SOMETHING about the LEAGUE wide view of Broxton’s worth?
If Jon Broxton who is a free agent had to settle and hurry up and sign with KC and settled to be a set up man, doesn’t that say he might not be as valuable as some make him out to be?
And why is that?
Who made us lose MORE games after a season of dawdling on making us winners?
Who traded away our RBI leader last season?
Who is dawdling and waiting until someone offers Reyes more money than he is willing to pay?
Who has suggested putting Wright on the trading block?
Who traded away an All Star Closer for two PTBNL?
Where was his TOP 10 BA prospect in return you insist should be given for a closer who isn’t as good as K-Rod?
Hmmmm….
Metsie now they refuse to part with the beloved Nimmo if that’s what it took w/Murphy to acquire Bailey. Unbelievable.
Name last time a team’s #1 pick was traded as a PTBNL. Name last time a #1 pick was traded for a closer. Wonder why it does not happen more often?
when it’s an unproven nobody like Brandon Nimmo and an oft injured player with no position for Andrew Bailey? You’d see it done if i was in charge.
Gotta take risks if you want to win buddy. No risks? No win.
Man I knew you had infinite wisdom but not to this extent. That you would do something that has never been done even by the brightest of baseball minds.
if you’re going to put this much stock into a young boy like Nimmo and worry about what he may or may not do 5 years from now and at the same time the Mets finances and front office could be totally different by then ..then it tells me more about YOU as a guy who is afraid to make a move in order to win.
Santana, Gee, Niese, Dickey w/relief staff led by Bailey & Byrdak so far. Add to that an infield of Davis, Tejada, Reyess (we would need to sign him in order for the full impact of this deal to be felt) and Wright at 3B with Bay & Duda in the OF is a VERY GOOD start to try and compete for the post season in 2012.
Goodbye Nimmo and oft injured player with no position for Andrew Bailey. For me that deal is done yesterday.
“Santana, Gee, Niese, Dickey w/relief staff led by Bailey & Byrdak so far. Add to that an infield of Davis, Tejada, Reyess (we would need to sign him in order for the full impact of this deal to be felt) and Wright at 3B with Bay & Duda in the OF is a VERY GOOD start to try and compete for the post season in 2012.”
I could’ve sworn I read the exact same thing last year. That’s not gonna cut it to be postseason contenders. Yeah, Davis missed most of the year, but there’s more work to be done. Wright still regresses, Reyes wont be back, Tejada? Offensively, he’s almost there. For the Mets sake, keep him at 2nd base (Turner should be the infield utility hitter). Bay? No comment. Only two to be (somewhat) confident about are Davis & Duda. Also…Murphy & Nimmo for Bailey? LOL seriously? Despite Bailey’s current high asking price, they need to stay in on Bailey as well as inquiring on Trevor Cahill.
LOL Hitan you DID read the same exact thing last year!
We are still using the same script!
We are not PUNTING we are going to fix the Bullpen!
We did that last year and it worked so well we are going to fix the bullpen YET AGAIN!
I saw this movie, I know how it ends!
With a trade of the best players on the team and/or letting walk a good player to Free Agency!
And then next year we will focus on fixing the Bullpen again! Because thats the only position that fits under the 3Mil per year limitations Sandy has put on signing anyone!
Hitman you are 100% correct,
You DID read the same thing last year but like you always do – you MISUNDERSTAND.
I’m not saying stay with that roster and make no changes because that’s how you’re making it sound. I’m saying it’s a good start to build on. It’s a roster that can contend with some help via trades/free agent signings. That’s what I’m saying and I’m sure most people understood it that way.
I swear more than 70% of the discussion on this boards is trying to explain the points you’re trying to make to the people that always misunderstand or can’t understand them. And when that’s FINALLY established..if it’s established..then the baseball talk starts. It’s exhausting!
Okay if Nimmo can’t be traded no problem. If Oakland wants Capt Kirk instead – it’s goodbye Capt Kirk then.
I’d agree to that in a heart beat. Mainly because Kirk is still recovering from a major shoulder surgery that may have put his development back a solid year (not stalled, put back) and isn’t a first division player anyway.
Although, I would probably require the services of Luca Brasi to pull that deal off.
I could live with that one. Here is my issue with that however, it all hinges on the Mets re-signing Reyes. If they do not and you trade Murphy, you would not need a closer anyway with that offense.
Think about it Sir, it has NEVER been done to my knowledge. NEVER, ever, NEVER, ever. Again you would be going against not just Sandy the inept but every bright mind in baseball. You think the Rays would trade their #1 pick for a closer?
It depends who the #1 pick is, if it’s a Brandon Nimmo type and outfielders can be traded for or signed at anytime..especailly 5 years from now then yes.
No it doesn’t. It has NEVER been done regardless. They could select your left nut first and they still would not trade that pick for a closer. It would be an embarrassment. It would show that you have no clue what your are doing in the draft and basically wasted a top pick.
i can’t help if Sandy and Depo have no idea what the hell they’re doing. And didn’t the guy who actually drafted Nimmo bolt? So there.
Not the point, of course you are still missing the point. It HAS NEVER BEEN DONE. NEVER. Not by Sandy and not by the “bright” ones either.
“You’d see it done if i was in charge.”
No we wouldn’t because it is against the rules.
oft injured for oft injured in this case.
They aren’t allowed to part with Nimmo. You can’t trade players you draft for the first full year in your organization.
Once again, people who are completely uninformed about the process attacking over things they think are bad.
I guess it could be a PTBNL but who would EVER do that?
Nope, still can’t. PTBNL have to be named within a few months. Even then, it would be a horrible deal.
Yeah Bayonne
Because unproven kids on BA’s list are pure gold!
At least in their warped mind they are!
MLB players easily replaceable! LOL
Nice to know they are discussing. But without having even suspected names to debate about, not even worth discussing.
Say the A’s said yes we will trade him, and it will require Duda and harvey. Still want to do the deal?
If they asked for Murphy and a mid level prospect, you probably get a different answer.
and anyway, that’s how negotiions work. Teams 1st ask for the moon, and when they don’t get it, eventually the asking price comes down (or the guy never gets traded).
I’d have to say no if they asked for Duda and Harvey
also, this points out why it is such an important thing to be able to pull live arms out of the minors to develop your own young closer. Much better to promote a Bailey type then to trade a lot of other prospects to get him when he is getting expensive. In honor of TAgee, the braves are notorious for doing this.
And prospects are the currency of MLB. yes you should trade them when the return is right, but you also have a limited # with real value (some teams fewer than others!) and once you trade them, you can’t trade them again.
Yup, and they may have that in Mejia. No reason at this point to do the deal IF it takes a top prospect. Bailey is not making a difference next year regardless.
I totally agree. The closer is the one position that shouldn’t be so difficult to develop from within your own system. Most of today’s top closers were all starting pitchers who just couldn’t cut it or were not able to develop a solid tertiary pitch. I think it’s a sad state that all of the Mets closers in the last two decades had to be acquired in trades or signed as free agents.
You want to develop a closer here is all you have to do.
Draft starters with good fastball, good makeup and strikeout ability!
If they can’t develop enough secondary pitches to be an effective starter you convert them to a closer!
Thats really all it takes but a good competitive spirit is also required.
But that should be looked for in EVERY drafted player!
I certainly prefer Andrew Bailey over any of the FA closing options. As Bayonne Mets Fan said, you have to give to get in a trade. And IMO, if Sandy starts talking Tapia or Morris or Urbina ( 1 of them) coupled with Bobby Parnell, that might be enough to land Bailey. And if i was Sandy, I have to make that trade.The Mets have a good supply of SP prospects in their farm system and unless Beane is asking for Wheeler or Harvey, again I have to make that trade. What more can you ask for in Bailey? Young, cheap now, under team control through 2015, virtually unhittable when he’s on his game, pitches with an edge and has a personna, is a student of the game and would also be switching leagues which is typically advantage pitcher.