Meet The Newest Met, Andres Torres

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• Mike Lloyd December 11, 2011 at 11:49 pm

  I take the perspective that the Giants figure Pagan just didn t mix well with Collins personality. The Giants loved Torres but believe his ’10 season was either a ‘career year’ or an abberation or both.. What do fans love more, players with intangibles or players who will help them win? The real get for the Giants was creating roster space while getting some salary relief (maybe 250k) upgrading their centerfield position offensively, hoping Pagan has a great walk year amd unloading Ramirez either A) Because he s not right physically or B) because they have an equivalent arm to compensate for the trade of Ramirez. Alderson essentially wanted Pagan off the team as Collins didn t like his demeanor, and wanted the page turned quickly on the Reyes fiasco- he also figured to roll the dice on Ramirez, hoping to turn him into something at the ’12 deadline this summer. Torres is a good backup outfielder who is nothing more than a journeyman with a good attitude, he’ll keep the spot warm with the hope that Captain Kirk even Lagares will replace him ASAP.
  • any December 11, 2011 at 11:57 pm

    I don’t recall any reports about Ramirez being hurt. The rest of your suppositions are logical.

    I hope Torres does end up being a 4th OF, which means they got someone better to start.

    Hopefully whatever injuries he dealt with last year are behind him, and he can at least get close to 2010. Otherwise, the trade was basically Ramirez for pagan.
    • Mike Lloyd December 12, 2011 at 12:39 am

      Just a supposition on my part about the injury…no factual evidence to support my inferring it. I think statistically the guys a good reliever… It seems a pretty small price to pay for a guy who seems to be a historically good reliever. I suppose I should have not inferred it, just a sneaky suspicion. I could be absolutely wrong, the guy is pretty good, as for Torres, attitude be damned…continue with the youth movememt, ahem, rebuilding…
      • trs86 December 12, 2011 at 6:12 am

        SF is just in a different position. Tons of pitching with little offense.
    • srt December 12, 2011 at 11:48 am

      I have no factual evidence to support this but most Giants fans – even though they were sorry to lose Ramirez – said they had a surplus of BP arms more or less like him so it’s not leaving any hole in their BP.

      I read nothing alluding to an injury in the making.
• Mr North Jersey December 11, 2011 at 11:04 pm

  Grand larceny? Spreading it on kinda thick don’t you think? I’m not 100% sure he will even be the starting CF come Opening Day. I’ll wait to see what he actually contributes.
• Bayonne Mets Fan December 11, 2011 at 11:07 pm

  “And I honestly have no idea where these Sandy can do no wrong, he is God, best Gm ever people you keep mentioning are. They sure as hell aren’t hanging out on this site.”

  here you go, any

  Right on cue
• Mike Lloyd December 12, 2011 at 12:27 am

  I’ve sat back for 1 year and 3 months writing a book on unionism and watching everone say and write this and that, but I think the same thing as you bayonne, essentially, without being as harsh, this guy doesn’t excite me. He doesn’t get me thinking the Mets will be anything more than they are. The bottom line is Alderson was brought in to rebuild this franchise. Torres is a journeyman nothing more… He has good attitude, woop-d-damn-doo. EuAlderson is no genius, he figured to take this deal, because it enabled him to take the the initiative, it was an obvious ploy to stop criticism, from fans’ dejection, anger and frustration from Reyes leaving, and rid Collins of someone he didn t like…Torres…yeah he sucks…One good year does not a career make…
  • trs86 December 12, 2011 at 6:11 am

    Come on the one and only motive was to turn Pagan into something useful. Torres was just a bonus and i imagine Sandy would have made the move with out him in the deal.
  • Des December 12, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    You’re not as harsh as the guy who drinks funny water? Yeah, you just don’t like to be tagged with his style, do you? Torres is a good transition player, so stop making a big deal of it. We don’t have many All Stars, so appreciate what we have. It could be worse.
    • Vinny B December 12, 2011 at 3:38 pm

      I think your responding to me, but i’m not 100% sure.

      Well, if you are, I don’t care about “styles”. I just give my opinion and you can either agree or disagree.

      And I don’t dislike Torres, I dislike how this writer treats a former Mets player for something, and when another GM signs a guy who has the same problem, “everyone will love him”, and it could be “grand larceny”

      And they are different – Jeff Francoeur is GG RFer, was 25 at the time and was a former top prospect. while Andres Torres was a “throw in”, and is 9 years older than Francoeur was, and he also shouldn’t be starting. Plus isn’t there talk about him hitting leadoff? But, hey, we’ll make fun of Omar and Francoeur, and we’ll parise Sandy and Torres just because of their philosophy – That’s all this is about.
      • Des December 12, 2011 at 3:44 pm

        Vinny B. — I don’t know who you’re responding to either. My prior remark was intended to address Mike Lloyd. BTW, I was a Francoeur supporter but some fans — Martin comes to mind — thought he was garbage.
• Des December 11, 2011 at 11:38 pm

  Thanks Craig. Here’s to the success of Andres Torres. He’s a guy without any character issues. The video is inspiring. Let’s hope he plays to his 2010 level.
• Kay December 12, 2011 at 7:41 am

  Thanks for writing:

  “Nobody will mistake Torres for Carlos Beltran, but defensively he will get the job done better than most, and if he returns to his 2010 levels offensively, that Pagan trade looks like grand larceny.”

  I read it clearly, you said IF, now let the many experts with reading comprehension problems make more of what you actually typed.

  Seems like being hopeful has become a negative thing around these parts.
• Vinny B December 12, 2011 at 12:07 pm

  Hey Craig,

  Jeff Franceour career .313 OBP

  Andres Torres career .318 OBP

  You still mock Francoeur for having a low OBP, but you love Torres and his OBP is only a little bit higher than Francoeur! And hasn’t Torres been talked about hitting leadoff? So we might be giving a guy with a career .318 OBP the most AB’s on the team!

  Oh man, if this was Omar………..
  • jessep December 12, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Vinny: I hope one day you’ll understand that a player who is brought in to be a defensive minded CF is different than a guy who is supposed to be a “power hitter” with a good arm.

    Every player has a different role on the team. Am I for example through the moon about Torres’ offensive #s? No but I don’t think Pagan would be that much better but I expect Torres to cover much more ground in CF with Bay and Duda so I accept his role.

    Frenchy (who I liked by the way) was a corner OF and generally corner OF’s need to produce offensively consistently. If you look around the league generally CF 2B SS and even C are spots teams sacrifice offense for defense. It’s the corner spots that carry offenses
    • Vinny B December 12, 2011 at 12:43 pm

      Oh of course it’s “different” – It’s always “different”.

      One guy has a .313 OBP, and was mocked for it, and STILL is. Another guy has a .318 OBP, and now those same people are saying the trade could be “grand larceny”.

      You realize how much Francoeur was attacked for his OBP? And Lerner still makes fun of him. The attacks on Francoeur were WAYYYY over the top. But now, with Andres Torres “fans are going to love him”.

      And I don’t mind this trade at all, I’m just pointing out how this guy and others KILLED Francoeur for a low OBP, but like Torres who’s OBP is almost the same….And your saying it’s “different” because Torres plays good defense? You know what? Francoeur played good defense too, and every time I brought that up, I was killed for it too.
      • XtreemIcon December 12, 2011 at 12:49 pm

        If you can’t understand the difference between a supposed middle of the order power threat with a terrible OBP and a defensive first, take-what-you-get-with-the-stick guy with a terrible (still better) OBP, then there’s no pleasing some people.
        • jessep December 12, 2011 at 12:58 pm

          Right. If Duda has a .290 OBP he’ll get killed for it I promise. A player brought in specifically for his CF defensive ability, I’m not worried about his OBP if its .300+ as long as his glove proves worth it.

          I never in my life disliked Rey Ordonez for his bat. Why?

          His glove made me forget about it.

          Not every hitter is the same, not every situation is the same.
          • trs86 December 12, 2011 at 1:00 pm

            Eh, I disliked Rey for his bat

            There is a difference there as well. Rey was no place holder at the time, he was the current and the future starter. Torres is there until they find someone better or someone rises from the ranks.
            • jessep December 12, 2011 at 1:02 pm

              I get what you mean in terms of a placeholder but we will agree to disagree.

              In the NL you can build a team a solid team around pitching and offense at the corners and defense up the middle.
        • Vinny B December 12, 2011 at 1:08 pm

          So all you guys are telling me that Francoeur wouldn’t have been mocked if he played a good CF?

          Yeah right.
          • jessep December 12, 2011 at 1:11 pm

            I’m telling you if he was here because of his glove and that was the concept of the team no matter who the GM was, that *I* wouldn’t mock him (not that I really mocked him anyway)

            Take a look around the NL. Corners are the majority of the best offensive players are. Rarely in the NL will you see a lineup like NYY or BOS.

            Give me power production out of LF/RF/1B/3B and acceptable big league hitting with a focus on defense in CF/2B/SS and a solid defensive C with a great arm.
            • Vinny B December 12, 2011 at 1:14 pm

              Like I said, if people just didn’t like Francoeur, you have a point….but he was viciously attacked…..and is STILL being made fun of by some people, including the Lerner.
          • Vinny B December 12, 2011 at 1:10 pm

            And what you guys aren’t getting is that Francour wasn’t just “disliked” he was viciously attacked….and is still being made fun of.
            • Donal December 12, 2011 at 1:33 pm

              No, every person here you disagree with is not accountable for what someone in every corner of the internet says.
              • Vinny B December 12, 2011 at 1:55 pm

                Right, my post was to Lerner, not to Jeseep, or you, or to Extreme. My point was that Lerner is STILL mocking Francouer for his OBP, but likes Torres who has about the same OBP.

                Francoeur hasn’t been on the team in over a year, and his name still pops up in Lerner’s posts….and still makes fun of him. But we are all going to love Torres(his words not mine), even though he has almost the same OBP!

                Maybe if Lerner stopped bringing up Francoeur in his posts, and didn’t make fun of him all the time, and didn’t say we are going to love Torres…. you guys have a point….But his reactions to both players are way over the top – Both players aren’t very good, but one guy he hates, and one guy “everyone is going to love” and trading for him could be “grand larceny” – You can’t see how that’s biased?
                • XtreemIcon December 12, 2011 at 2:04 pm

                  You need to stop painting everything with a broad brush and thinking OBP is the be all-end all of player evaluation. Frenchy with his OBP was a failure and Torres can be a success even with the same OBP, because they do differnt things and there are different expectations.
                  • Vinny B December 12, 2011 at 2:09 pm

                    Did I say that?

                    The point is that both players aren’t very good(you agree with that right?) and how they are treated is completly different. Francoeur gets mocked(and STILL does), and trading for Torres could be grand larceny.

                    You don’t see how that’s biased?
                  • XtreemIcon December 12, 2011 at 2:22 pm

                    Not even a little bit, because both have entirely different expectations. Torres is actually very, very good at something. But if he goes out and plays CF like Pagan did, then he’ll be a failure. Until then, if Torres plays a great CF and isn’t an automatic out, then he’s a steal for Pagan straight up, regardless of whatever contributions Ramirez gives. And it has nothing to do with his OBP.
                  • Vinny B December 12, 2011 at 2:30 pm

                    Both Torres and Francoeur aren’t good players…However, how the get treated is completley differenent by this guy – That’s my point – One guy gets mocked, the other everyone is going to love. Maybe you can say one guy is better than the other or whatever, but the truth is, they both aren’t good.
                  • Bayonne Mets Fan December 12, 2011 at 2:38 pm

                    And Francoeur is actually very, very good at something too. He is arguably the best defensive right fielder in baseball today and arguably has the best arm in baseball today too.
                  • Vinny B December 12, 2011 at 2:42 pm

                    But that doesn’t count Bayonne.

                    And let’s not forget at that time Francoeur was 25 and was a former top prospect – There was much more of a chance of him rebounding than Torres who is going to be 34.
                  • XtreemIcon December 12, 2011 at 2:56 pm

                    The best? You can argue that, but you’d lose. He has a great arm, but he’s “only” very good defensively. Not a knock, just not close to the best. His range, the ground he covers, angles to the ball, etc. All big parts of playing right field because the throws are longer. And he’s not close to the best in any of those aspects.
                  • jessep December 12, 2011 at 6:58 pm

                    See Bayonne it’s when you say things like this “He is arguably the best defensive right fielder in baseball today.” That I have to question where you get your information and why people attack Frenchy. You claim you dislike when people give false praise to Alderson, well maybe others dislike when you give false praise to Frenchy so they go into attack mode?

                    Can you tell me how or why Frenchy is a better fielder than Ichiro?

                    How about why is he a better defensive RF than: (I am not saying he’s not but if you claim somebody is the best at something, you better be able to give a good reason)
                    Upton, Heyward, Ethier, Stanton, Beltran or Pence?

                    And please… PLEASE don’t give me the “I know what I saw” because I’ll question how often you’ve seen those 7 guys play RF.
          • Donal December 12, 2011 at 1:28 pm

            I think his habit of saying goofy things and him being the poster boy for wasted potential don’t help.
  • Kay December 12, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    He ‘loves” Torres? Really, where did he ever say that? Omar is gone, move on
    • Vinny B December 12, 2011 at 12:14 pm

      He obviously likes him…..and he said “I believe fans are going to love this guy.”
      • Kay December 12, 2011 at 12:37 pm

        So now being hopeful is a bad thing?
        • Vinny B December 12, 2011 at 12:44 pm

          “And I don’t mind this trade at all, I’m just pointing out how this guy and others KILLED Francoeur for a low OBP, but like Torres who’s OBP is almost the same….”
          • trs86 December 12, 2011 at 12:50 pm

            Do you think that there is a difference in what is expected for a CF and what is expected for a RF? Also, Frenchy was being paid 5M that season compared to 2-3M for Torres. NOT only that, Torres is looked at as depth and a place holder where as Frenchy was looked at as the future…. Yup, same thing.
            • Vinny B December 12, 2011 at 1:12 pm

              The only difference is WHO got them – Yup there’s the difference.

              If people just didn’t like Francoeur, you have a point….but he was viciously attacked. And god forbid if you said anything positive at all about him at all….
              • jessep December 12, 2011 at 1:16 pm

                I thought Frenchy was a great team guy, and a hitter who could occasionally come through with a big at bat but his bat was relied on too heavily in that Mets lineup. They needed him to be something he wasn’t. It’s kind of like Pelfrey. Pelfrey isn’t a BAD pitcher, its just when you toss words around like “he’s our ace now,” you set him up to be a failure.

                If 3-4-5-6 did their job offensively and Frenchy could be a 7 hitter who’s primary role on the team was his defense then I wouldn’t have a problem.
                • jessep December 12, 2011 at 1:17 pm

                  BTW I had a bigger problem with Barajas offensively than I did Frenchy.
              • trs86 December 12, 2011 at 1:45 pm

                Man either you are in-fact arguing for the hell of it or actually have no ability to see the big picture. You can’t at any point think that comparing those two is O.K. In fact I supported Omar’s trade for Frenchy. However, they having nothing to do with each other at all. In fact the entire comparison is a waste of time.
                • Vinny B December 12, 2011 at 2:04 pm

                  I don’t think you know the whole story,

                  Lerner still brings up Francouer’s name in his posts…and still makes fun of him, and the people that didn’t want to kill the guy…..But when the Mets trade for Andres Torres, who isn’t good(like Francoeur) he says “everyone is going to love him” and trading for him could be “grand larceny”

                  You don’t see how that’s biased? Really?
• Vinny B December 12, 2011 at 2:19 pm

  Just to be clear, I don’t have a problem with the trade, i actually like it, and I said that when it happend.

  But what I have a problem with is that this writer is unbelievably biased. He KILLS one guy for having a low OBP, but trading for another guy who also has a low OBP could be “grand larceny”. you guys don’t think thats biased? that’s fair? You can say maybe Torres is OK, but grand Larceny?
• francis December 12, 2011 at 7:11 pm

  You’ll love him … on the DL.

  If he plays 100 games, I’ll be shocked.
• Mr North Jersey December 16, 2011 at 12:46 pm

  “I’ve seen more videos of Andres Torres in one week, than I’ve seen of Jose Reyes in one year.”

  http://twitter.com/#!/MetsMerized/status/147733573473017856

  LoL, That is so true Joe D.