12
2011
What’s So Funny?
An article by 
I came across this post on Amazin Avenue by Chris McShane, which actually reflects perfectly the overriding sentiment on Twitter immediately after it was announced the the Phillies agreed to a contract with closer Jonathan Papelbon to a four-year deal. He writes:
The good news out of Philadelphia is that the Phillies have signed Jonathan Papelbon to a four-year contract worth approximately $50 million, and there’s a vesting option for a fifth year. It’s a laughable contract, one that seems typical of the Mets as they scrambled to remain relevant after their 2006 appearance in the National League Championship Series.
He goes on to talk about lights in tunnels, and players on wrong side of thirty, something about the Phillies having $90 million tied up in five players, yada, yada, yada…
I’m not singling Chris out by the way. The sentiment of his post was very much alive and well on the comment threads right here on MMO. I just thought he worded it in a way that was easier for me to make my point which is basically to ask:
Is this what we’ve been reduced to?
Making fun of the teams that are only trying to provide their fanbase with a product worth paying to see?
So what if the Phillies have $90MM tied up on five players in 2013?
That just means they have $75 million left to spend on the other 20 players, they have a $165 million dollar payroll. In contrast, the Mets have about $15 million to fill the same 20 roster spots. Funny or sad?
In the last two weeks, I heard our GM Sandy Alderson talking about not punting in 2012, and that a Mets executive said our strategy is to wait for the Phillies to get old… And yet Mets fans are laughing as if we are some shining example of excellence on the diamond and exalted genius in the executive offices… SMH
Need I remind you all of this:
- 2007 Phillies: 1st Place 89-73
- 2008 Phillies: 1st Place 92-70
- 2009 Phillies: 1st Place 93-69
- 2010 Phillies: 1st Place 97-65
- 2011 Phillies: 1st Place 102-60
They just keep getting better and better, while we’ve just endured an 85 loss season and could be looking at a 100 loss season with the losses of Carlos Beltran and Jose Reyes.
I keep hearing about how we are rebuilding for the future, which I’m all for, but at the expense of what? Our baseball dignity?
We have three former GM’s in the front office and yet we are incapable of building for the future while keeping a contending team on the field at the same time? How come? Shouldn’t we expect more from a front office as stacked and well-compensated as this one?
We get ridiculous sound bites like “2011 is not a throwaway” or “we’re not punting in 2012″ with no follow-through or veracity in what they propose. When this trio was hired, wasn’t it Paul DePodesta who boasted that running the Mets was going to be like “Moneyball with money”?
Not quite. I see plenty of the Moneyball, but where’s the money?
Anyway, I just think it’s weird when a team like ours, pokes fun at a team like theirs….
The Phillies are everything I wish the Mets were right now.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 30 | .583 | - |
| Phillies | 35 | 37 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Nationals | 34 | 36 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Mets | 27 | 40 | .403 | 12.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 48 | .314 | 19.0 |
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“I keep hearing about how we are rebuilding for the future, which I’m all for, but at the expense of what? Our baseball dignity?”
I’m sorry, did you forget we’re Mets fans? This franchise losing it’s dignity would be like Carlos Delgado losing his hairline.
“We have three former GM’s in the front office and yet we are incapable of building for the future while keeping a contending team on the field at the same time?”
As I mention everytime this comes up, teams that can do both at the same time generally start off being good in one and then build up the other. The Mets were good in neither, so no, we can’t do both at the same time…yet.
If you want to say “hey, let’s not laugh too hard at other teams”, I’m on board. I do think they are getting old and these contracts will kill them in the near future, but they are in win now mode and are currently in a pretty good run. Flags fly forever and all.
What I don’t get is the need to bury the people who are trying to get us out of this mess.
I had a nice discussion about this yesterday with Michael Baron and Mack Ade. I’m not burying anyone so much as I’m expressing my disappointment in the early results. I expected more from what I now refer to a our front office Dream Team. I disagree that there wasn’t enough on this roster to field a contending team. My frustration began not so much because they traded Krod and Beltran, I understand the point if those trades, but because they didn’t make any attempt to replace them on the roster while the team was in full contention mode. Bringing in a spare reliever for the bullpen or an experienced bat would have signaled a message that we weren’t tossing in the white towel. We did nothing. And now it seems we’ll do nothing if we lose Reyes. I have it on EXCELLENT authority that if the Mets don’t resign Reyes, that $20 million dollars will not be re-invested in the team. I also came across some new as yet to be announced information that will shed new light on how and why Alderson became Mets GM. From a position of knowing more than I wish I did, all I can say is that not everything is what it seems right now.
If they don’t resign Reyes, then what would they spend the $20 million on? After him, it is not a deep free agent market. We are pretty set at 1B for years to come and I’m not buying Wilson as an ace.
If it were up to me, I would look to sign Michael Cuddyer who I see as a solid hitter with moderate power and a legit run producer who can play 4-5 positions. I would also sign Mark Buehrle and Joe Nathan. Those three added to our current roster would more than make up for the loss of Jose Reyes from the lineup. It would also be great Ike Davis and David Wright insurance. Duda should platoon with Bay so Bay’s option does not vest. Those three should all be had for the same $20MIL Reyes would get I believe. And neither are looking for longterm deals.
I like the nathan idea. Duda though can be part of the future, and can handle lefties, so given a choice I would platoon Bay and someone (internal or external option) in RF, and just let Dua go to LF where he belongs.
I’m with you, I’d like to sign them sign Nathan. There’s a lot I’d like to see them do, but alas, I don’t think that’s happening.
Cuddyer signed with Philly, I think. And Duda loses his power off lefties, but his BA and OBP don’t really suffer (ya, I know, small sample size and all)
that’s because he actually seems to have a good plan (as in he knows how to hit) and is more willing to take pitches the other way instead of just hacking and missing.
likely as he develops he will start turning on lefties more too.
Which is why I’d rather not platoon him.
What is worse that “some” Mets fans are laughing at the Phillies and their moves, or killing their OWN team by the terminology used by a GM, so called sound bytes from a “source” that heard it from a Mets executive, or the fact that Mets fans are giving up based on one season with an extremely limited budget and millions tied up in bad contracts?
Is it worse to laugh at a rival that you absolutely detest or jump off a ledge because of rumors based on opinion not facts about the team you supposedly support?
Kay, I know who said it. In fact more than a dozen people who were also at the ASL Dinner in New York heard it loud and clear. It’s a fact that cannot be disputed simply because the person requested anonymity which is sometimes slang for “if you say I said it, kiss your press credential and access goodbye”.
What is more poignent here Joe is the fact the Phillies with all that payroll did NOT lose money!
Sure they got a lot of expensive players over there…
They drew 3.680 Million people to the park!
Their 2011 Payroll was 172.976 Mil!
They make $473 if they sell one ticket in every section they have based on thier Season ticket packages which are discounted from Box Office “one off” prices! It should be noted they have a WAITING list to buy Season tickets!
Now times that by attendance 3.68 Mil.
The number they make before the first hot dog is sold, before the first jersey and cheesesteak comes to: 174.060 Mil! even if everyone bought season tickets and got the discount for volume purchases!
Net profit just on TICKETS 4.3 Mil!
Now they don’t sell every seat as a season ticket, they have packages where you pay MORE per seat but buy fewer games! Add that plus the Box Office one offs and they make a ton more JUST ON ATTENDANCE to pay the Payroll!
And their continued winning is going to ensure those ticket numbers hold!
Even a bad season will not hurt that much beause they have a WAITING list of bandwagoners who missed out on the winning because they waited till they won something to go see them and couldn’t get a package!
They have STARS! Stars not only WIN they Draw attendance even when you do NOT win!
We will learn this should Reyes go to the Marlins or if Wright gets traded!
We should have learned this in August when the loss of Beltran and K-Rod coupled with injuries to Murphy killed the draw at CitiField!
If you buy the star players then attendance will cover it. Concessions will be the gravy and you will not have money problems!
Phillies spent more than us and they had no problems making the salary!
Yankees too!
Maybe instead of looking to blame the attendance for our money issues we should look at WHY the attendance is down!
If we did we would see it has a lot more to do with talent than just winning!
The phils owners also paid a fraction of their own money for the stadium. So not only are they bringing in more revenue, they have vastly lower overhead costs. As in, no 40-50 million dollar debt payments coming due.
They’re also winning BALLGAMES..and starting with 2007 if they weren’t winning ballgames then all your ridiculous economic theories wouldn’t even come into play.
You’re filled with ALL kinds of financial and economic excuses but fail to focus on what we’re all here for in the first place and that’s BASEBALL!!!!
They’re winning ballgames!
You really have comprehension problems. Please, never respond to one of my posts again. They are not intended for you.
For anyone else, it was a simple statement of why the Mets are so short of funds, and why the Phils can have such a high payroll.
very simple concept. Payroll by itself is irrelevant. Total operating costs are what count. And the Mets this year almost guaranteed were higher than the Phils, even though payroll was lower.
Saddle any team with an additional 50mill/year in debt payments, and payroll is going to take a hit. Regardless of attendance.
Don’t worry I won’t. I won’t respond to EXCUSE MAKING anymore,
And even your second response is nothing more than creative excuse making. It all starts (at least relevant to this topic) with what you have on the field. Mets lost heartbreaking games in 07 & 08 then had historic injuries since then.
If the Mets have success and are injury free during that time we’re not here having this unbelievably SILLY discussion about operation costs.
You have NO IDEA what the HELL you’re talking about despite your economic background. Try developing some kind of a baseball background before YOU post here again cuz you have NO CLUE.
Bayonne, Unfortunately I wish this was just a baseball decision/discussion. It is so tied to the economic side, that it overshadows the “baseball” side of this. Personally I think the whole “we have 20 million” for Reyes is a sham, as they say if they don’t re-sign Reyes, they won’t use that for other players. If you have that for Reyes, you have that for others. If you don’t have that for others… You don’t have that for Reyes.
So, the baseball only world would have Reyes re-signed in a heartbeat. The fiscal side (and driving force of this whole debacle) says let Reyes go, reduce, recover, set the table for the future and hope that the bank account rebounds.
I think any was giving reasons, not excuses. I read it as “The Mets don’t have $172mm to spend on payroll because….(insert what he typed in). Not trying to start shyte with you or anyone else because it’s very possible I didn’t understand what he meant, being a low watt bulb and all…
Who cares? The GM inherited a competitive lineup last season and spent what ever little money the Mets had stupidly. He did not do a good job of getting better players when he could have.
Now the Mets have more money, not a whole lot, but more – so let’s get some better players to add to what we have and try and contend. Big question is Santana and if he’s fine then we have Davis, Tejada, Wright, Bay, & Duda.
Use some money to sign Reyes to fill out the infield and be SMART. I’m sure if he’s as good as his army says he is then make some trades get/sign another starting pitcher and let’s fight for the Wild Card next year.
AND STOP WORRYING ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY!!!!
What the hell is going on around here?
“Total operating costs are what count. And the Mets this year almost guaranteed were higher than the Phils, even though payroll was lower.”
Nice assumption but not even close to being true!
I don’t know if I agree with the idea that “the Phillies are everything I wish the Mets were right now.”
Two or three years ago maybe, but I think the more financially and statistically minded approach to running this team will help us in the long run.
I’d rather not throw $50 million dollars towards an a 30-something-year-old RELIEF pitcher and hope for the best 5 years down the line. That reminds me of Minaya’s final years.
Papelbon’s contract screams desperation. The Phillies are going all in, as they rightfully should considering the age of their current roster.
absolutely the phils just keep doubling down trying to ride the rotation as long as it lasts. And for them, it makes perfect sense. It took them 100 years to finally have a perfect storm of opportunity for a sustained run and a few WS titles, so damned yeah they should go for it.
This team is dead from the neck up. Not the players, roster or manager, but the guys running the show. Wilpon’s henchmen may have most of the masses fooled, but anyone who can read between the lines knows that the current front office is just a means to and end and that end is a small market payroll and philosophy.
Hard to take offense at that comment when it’s basically true.
You know Joe….knowing something you wish you didn’t and grandstanding that you cannot divulge the info for fear of losing your access smacks of what you are constantly hammering the Mets front office of. I guess you’ve learned your lessons well!
thought the same thing. Better not throw stones at Cerrone for being a sell out.
You can either be inside or outside, but you can’t be both.
“Is this what we’ve been reduced to?” Absolutely. When you find a team unable to operate in the biggest of sports markets, what else is there for us to do? We all know the Mets are so far off that they can’t successfully complete against a AAA ballclub (hence the Wilpons vetoed the Yankees’ AAA club from playing in Newark next year). So what else is there to do? You hope other teams’ big time moves bomb as much as the Mets’ moves have. Why? For one thing, it’ll add some legitimacy to years of Mets’ failures. You could take comfort in the fact the the Mets aren’t alone in their stupidity, that other teams in big markets can be just as ignorant as the Mets. For another thing, it’ll feel a bit redemptive to see other teams fall on their faces. Not to be too petty, but aren’t you tired of the constant put downs from Yankee fans, Philly players, and the Philly fan base? I know I am. I get abused every time I put on a shirt featuring a Mets logo. Conversely, if other teams make moves similar to what the Mets have done in the recent past, and it doesn’t backfire on those teams, it’ll just add a new layer of suckitude to being a Mets fan.
They’re the Phillies! Yes you laugh at them, lighten up.
They just made their team better by adding Papelbon. So I don’t see how that’s funny at all.
more of a wash at this point, since he had a similar year to Madson.
Last year they were, but if you look what they did for their career they aren’t. And if you’d watch them both pitch, you’d see that Papelbon is clearly the better pitcher.
I agree with “any” here. I think everybody flipping about this signing is forgetting a few things
A) They now have not signed Madsen. I don’t know if that means he will end up elsewhere, but is there really such a huge difference between Papelbon and Madsen? The only difference to me in 2011 is 1 guy collapsed and gave away a playoff appearance at the hands of the Orioles.
Papelbon is good don’t get me wrong, but I don’t see this signing as anything significant. If anything they likely over spent, and jumped way way too early to sign a closer when there are plenty avail.
I guess you have no problem with this “death by a thousand cuts”. Not significant? After a thousand not significant things, we will be dead. How about showing me something real and tangible that is positive for the Mets. I challenge you to do that. We are being economized into a grave.
There is a difference between them. Last year was Madson’s best year, right? Well last year(his best year) his ERA was 2.37. Now for Papelbon’s career, his ERA is 2.33 – So Madson’s BEST season isn’t as good as Papelbon’s AVERAGE season.
Papelbon in his career has had THREE seasons with an ERA under 2, Madson has never had a season where his ERA was under two.
And last year, Papelbon was better in pretty much every stat – More IP, more K’s, Less walks, Less hits allowed, and a lower WHIP. The only major stat the Madson was better than him was ERA, but if you look at career ERA, Papelbon is 2.33 and Madson is 3.59.
Papelbon is clearly better.
Madson has been better than Papelbon over the last 2 years, so it’s not that clear.
It is not funny one bit. The Phils are clearly the elite team in the division and the Mets are second division competing for the cellar. Any Met fan who can laugh at the Phils has their head on backwards. How come the Mets can pay top $ to a triumvirate of execs, but have no money for player salaries? Was there a clause in Alderson’s contract that hew could bring in as many of his buddies as he wished at lucrative salary levels? All the speculation by Mets fans regarding quality players who are availaible is just so much whistling in the dark. Forget about anyone like Cuddyer, Buehrle, Nathan or whoever. You may as well say let’s sign Pujols. It’s just not going to happen. There will be no new quality players coming to Citi. The salary shrinkage will not stop until it reaches the ML minimum for the entire 40 man roster. That is what we have to look forward. The building for the future is in the very far off future – can you say 2020! Don’t blame the fans for the attendance problem. Blame the mindless administration and the declining spiral of diminishing expectations that they have created. Declare bankruptcy or sell the team. One way or the other, the Wilponzis need to call it a day and move on to sink the rest of their empire. Liberate Mets fans from this captivity. Let my people go!
Laugh at the Phillies? No way! Rather you should say “Cry for the Mets”.
@theonlymaskman ,could not have said it better myself.
Papelbon is going to be a bust imo. To me he’s showing signs of straining and Mariano aside there’s not many career closers. He was totally elite for a few years but he’s def come back to earth. Sometime soon the Phils will be saddled w CLee and Papel contracts imo but they seem to have money to spend so not sure it matters most trams cant affored to have there top paid players not perform..
none of that was an examination of the actual merits of the signing.
$50 mill over four seasons with a very reachable fifth year vesting option is too much money compared to the number of innings a reliever plays and unless the Phils payroll continues to rise to Yankeesque levels theese deals will come to haunt the Phils.
Since most teams have a limit on spending (except maybee the Yankes), this kind of contracts tend to create trouble down the run. For though, the Phillies are a powerhouse and, unfortunatley the cheapskate owners of the Mets wants to slash payroll.
I wish the Mets would compete for top FA’s, but unless we had “Yankee-money”, I would not like this kind of deal.