6
2011
The Mets’ Plan Is To Hope The Phillies Get Old In A Few Years?
An article by 
Joel Sherman of the NY Post spoke to a Mets official who told him the Mets plan is to hope the Phillies get old and try to overtake them in 2013 or 2014.
Word continues to circulate in baseball circles that the Mets will be willing to discuss David Wright in trades this offseason as part of a complete facelift/rebuild away from Wright and Jose Reyes.
“We will listen on Wright for sure,” a Mets official told me during the week. “We know we are not going to win it all in 2012. We have to hope the Phillies get old and we are in position to take advantage of that in 2013-14, and we have to figure out ways to speed the process to get there.”
In other words, if the Mets could find the young, defensive-oriented center fielder they crave plus an arm or two in exchange for Wright, they will seriously consider it.
We’ve already heard this stance before on Wright and if they can get the right pieces for him to improve the team then do it.
The whole waiting for the Phillies to get old thing sounds like an awful plan. I was hoping the team would have a more proactive plan to take the NL East that didn’t depend so heavily on backing in.
The other thing that concerns me is that Ruben Amaro Jr. doesn’t seem like the type of general manager that will let his team simply wither away. When they lost Aaron Rowand they went after Jayson Werth, and when Werth moved on, in came Hunter Pence. Reports are heating up that Michael Cuddyer will soon replace Raul Ibanez, and we all saw how Jon Lieber, Adam Eaton and Jaime Moyer were replaced by Lee, Halladay and Oswalt. This is not a team that sits on their hands.
The Phillies also have plenty of cash to play with as $50 million dollars in payroll commitments have dropped off their $165 million payroll from 2011, and they plan on re-investing it.
The Phillies will also get two top draft picks each for Type-A free agents Ryan Madson, Roy Oswalt and Jimmy Rollins if they let them go. They will also get sandwich picks for Brad Lidge and Raul Ibanez. That could add up to eight of the first 50 picks in the draft depending on who goes where. Eight top draft picks… And believe me, the Phillies know how to pick ‘em…
Waiting for the Phillies to get old sounds like a very terrible idea… Very ill conceived… Who hatched up this plan?
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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This “plan” just shows how clueless the entire Mets organization is. Unfortunately, it is the Phillies who are now to team to admire and the Mets are the team to despise. It is very difficult for me to say that after being a Mets fan since 1962. The reality is that the owners are broke as demonstrated by the recent layoff and the GM doesn’t know which way to turn to man the team. The Wilpons have put this team into a hopeless downward spiral that is a result of their own stubborn attitude and personal greed. We are in no position to criticize the Phillies. Phillies getting old? … forget it; that is just a perfect example of how incompetent Mets leadership is!
I don’t believe it. This is a way to sell papers. They love picking on the Mets.
This is actually a smart plan. The Mets have no shot at catching the Phillies in the next couple years. They need to build for a few years from now when the huge payroll catchs up with aging Phillies. The Phillies have already started their bad planning by adding onto a huge payroll, gutting their minor league system and now they are signing old players. The Mets need to learn from the last decade and build their minor league system for the future. They need to ignore the Phillies and work on their own internal goals. The Mets decades of stupid contracts have caught up with them.
“The Mets have no shot at catching the Phillies in the next couple years”
Certainly not the way they are running things today they don’t!
Sort of a Self propagated prophesy which is fine but only if they are right and the Phillies collapse!
If they collapse next year we certainly won’t be ready to take over anything from them!
the mets are like a wounded elephant and NO team is going to help them get up off the ground. david wright is the kind of player any team would love to have to build around but the mets management will try to trade him in the hopes of getting players they can build around. they will NOT get a solid gap to gap allstar caliber hitter in his prime in exchange for him. they would probably settle for a center fielder who can’t hit and will wind up platooning him. as far as arms, they will NOT get anything better than a couple of number 4 starters at best. but the wilpons will manage to cut payroll again and drive the dagger deeper into the heart and soul of the teams loyal fan base. i just had a thought,.. what if they were planning to let the team die slowly and when the fan base dwindles, they might take it somewhere else that has no team and start over there. something is just not right with the coupons but only if you believe that they are interested in making this a successful franchise here. all of their actions might make sense if their plan was something else. can’t think of anything positive to say about the team i love.
You know Peter you make a very good point!
This FO has shown nothing but WEAKNESS since it got here…
Whining about how much money they have…
Whining about the cost of Contracts…
Unable to keep players that any team in the MLB would be happy to have including K-Rod, Beltran, Reyes and soon Wright.
Why would they bother to give us fair value for Wright knowing full well that they can just lowball us, or wait us out till we have to let them go?
Not only won’t we get any decent returns for our selloffs but we will likely get talked into paying most of the remaining salary for Wright if we traded him because they know we need to unload them!
We are in full fledged RETREAT in the offices of Metland!
It goes right along with what I said yesterday in the “Change of Culture” Thread.
They don’t really have a long term PLAN but instead are treading water hoping for something GOOD to happen!
In this case they are waiting for the Phillies to “Get Old” and to leave the division to us in their Will!
Even if they think the Phillies are going to get too old by 2013-2014 maybe someone should point out that the Braves and Washington are also in our division!
Both finished ahead of us this year WITH Reyes and Wright!
The WAIT AND SEE plan is only going to result in putting the Marlins ahead of us next!
Especially if they sign Reyes and take away whatever picks Slashy thinks he is going to get in the draft for letting Reyes go because their picks are protected!
The Wilpons SHOULD sell.
Sherman says the Mets crave a “young, defensive-oriented center fielder plus an arm or two” for Wright. He says they are focusing most on the Angels, and Peter Bourjos is a possibility.
Regarding the last sentence, for the last month that is who I thought the Mets should go after. I would rather give them Murphy plus a prospect than Wright.
yet their are alot of saberfools and moneyballers who would probably say this this a good plan.this team is a flat out joke,i’ll watch and take interest again when the P.O.S. wilpons sell.
Well MT22
You all can forget about the Wilpons selling the Mets anytime soon. They are going to retain Control until the team is worth more and the Network is totally paid off and sellable!
They are too heavily invested into the Stadium and Network to make a move like that!
And I am prtty sure there is a clause that says none of the network partners can sell their interests to anyone but thier partner as most new network deals are structured.
They can’t sell the network with the team. Seperate business with it’s own partners and investors who can nix any sale. If they sell the team then the entire network could fail if the new owners decide not to renew the rights to broadcast Met games!
Look at what happened to Sportschannel after they lost the Met games!!!
This is why I keep getting on anyone who says things like “I’m not setting foot into CitiField until the Wilpons….”
Your not solving anything nor accomplishing anything by not going!
Sure they know your unhappy now, but think about why you hate them, Do you really think they CARE?
Do you really think your going to bleed them dry?
Do you think someone in a deep financial mess (which is mostly supposition not based on anything but the losses from down attendance) is going to sell one of his biggest assets when it’s worth it’s lowest?
And risk all the other investments in SNY going for nothing as well?
No!
The only thing the folks who hate and bycott the Wilpons are actually doing is giving Wilpon an excuse to cut the salary, ruin the product, until the team payrol is low enough to make a profit with minimal attendance!
And if the team should ever play well enough under those conditions to entice you back to CitiField They will jack up the price of Tickets with no guarantee they will spend of it when they CAN afford to do it!
Because the BOYCOTTERS taught them a lesson!
You know what they will have learned?
If the Fan Base isn’t loyal to YOU and your TEAM no sense in showing any loyalty back! Just emaciate the team when fans don’t go since there is nothing to lose, and when they do come back rape them at the box office while you can! But never spend more than minimal attendance can support because the Fans aren’t loyal enough to warrant taking those kinds of risks!
Thats all these CitField/NY Met Boycotts are accomplishing!
We can blame Wilpon if it makes us all feel better
But the truth is and no one seems prepared to ask WHY did Wilpon and the Mets lose money last year?
Madoff? Did he raid the Box Office till the last two years from jail and cause the team to lose money?
Picard? Has he been taking his Lawyer fees from the Boxx Office reciepts while he prosecutes?
Did we lose money because we spent too much? Funny we didn’t lose money in 2008 when we had Santana, Beltran, Delgado, Perez, Castillo, Alou, Martinez, and Wagner all on the Payroll!
So that wasn’t it!
Delgado, Perez, Castillo, Beltran, Martinez and Wagner are all off the books!
We added Jason Bay instead.
Hmmmm I see a pattern here!
Spend More Money, make MORE Money.
Spend Less Money, LOSE more Money.
We are going to make some trades, Sell off whatever talent we have and play Pirate baseball for awhile until the Payroll is low enough to meet the Attendance take.
Winning will be secondary to accounting!
And should there ever be a season where we win expect to see a fire sale like the Marlins do after every WS win and Oakland is doing right now despite Moneyball plus’ failure to EVER generate the attendance figures to not have to use it!
The Wilpons are entrenched and they are not going anywhere anytime soon.
Exactly Seligman…
They own a TV Network they can’t sell to anyone but Time Warner (their partner) and if they sell the team that could possibly end that business merely by the new owners deciding to start a Met Network of their own and taking the games away from SNY!
How successful has Sportschannel been since they lost the Met games?
The mets may sell a piece of the team but no manner of protest or low attendance is going to force them to sell.
They will simply let Slashy cut the payroll until what they make off MLB TV money covers the nut and they don’t need attendance to pay the bills.
They might even collect a share of the MLB Payroll tax if they have to before they sell the team!
i am not alarmed, since seem to me that Sandy & Co do have a plan: Letting Reyes go in a hyped-up mkt; getting top picks in return; making selective trades: our prospects for pitching; signing selective F/As; probably trading Wright. And in all such efforts, you implement actions and hope your competition ‘distructs’ , withers, et cetera. i see little cause for concern by that F/O remark by itself.
For the first time in years, i trust our F/O to climb out of the ditch dug by prior management teams since 2001…even though we have the same ownership.
Hey Bob just want to ask…
How high are those picks Sandy is planning to get for Reyes if the Marlins sign him?
Have you thought about that?
Thier picks are protected! If they sign him all we get are 2nd round quality at best picks for Reyes!
is the 31st pick in the draft really considered a HIGH pick?
Are you sure, Metsie? Joe D says above teams get 2 topt draft picks each for Type A F/A’s…
Yes unless their picks are protected because they were one of the worst teams in the league!
If we signed a Type A free agent this year you know how many picks we would lose? ONE a second rounder!
Not our top two and we would keep our 1st round pick!
That’s ridiculous. Who’s to say they’ll get old? Smart teams don’t wait for that. They make trades, bring up talent, sign free agents and get rid of baggage. Teams don’t wait for other teams.
Phillies are going to have a run like the Braves when they reeled off over a dozen straight division titles. The sad part of this is that even the Nationals seem poised to leave the Mets in the dust.
The Phillies are not going to get too old and here is why…
They are now set in so many positions that they will no longer have to trade prospects wholesale to get good players.
If they make good draft decisions the next 5 years they will have enough kids to replace the old guys who DO get too old, just the way Omar would have if he had lived to see this year!
Delgado got too old, Davis is now here to take his place!
Sanatana is getting old, Harvey, and Familia will be ready to take over when HIS contract runs out!
Wright is coming up for renewal next year and Murphy seems poised to take his place!
Reyes has Tejada which is the only reason why Sandy seems to have a backup plan that allows him to pass on Reyes at all! Without Tejada does anyone think we take the same tact on Reyes we have?
Are they EQUAL replacements for those old guys? No!
But they ARE replacements that allow you to have adequate player there so you can go spend on the next FA you will rely on for the next 5 years.
Thats what the Phillies will try to do. Don’t know how well they draft as it seems since 1995 they have only managed to guess right 4 maybe 5 times on players they picked and had to trade the rest of their MISTAKES to get the Halliday’s Lee’s and Pences they have now!
Time will tell!
But it would seem they are doing more what Omar was trying to do than what we are trying to do now!
They keep adding talent while we keep sending it away!
And whatever you want to say about their post season failure they pretty much CRUISED through the league in the regular season to get there!
Which gave them high attendance and plenty of money to pay for all those high salaries they have!
Funny how we think that because we lost 70 Mil it was because we spent too much yet the teams who spent WAY MORE than that had no issues paying their bills!
It’s all Madoff’s fault right?
BULL!
‘They are now set in so many positions that they will no longer have to trade prospects wholesale to get good players.’
Are these the same Phillies I’ve been watching and reading about?
Let’s see:
1st base – don’t know when Howard will be back, his 25MIL contract a year kicks in with him on the disabled list, and they just plugged in a 41 year old to part time the position.
2nd base – Soon to be 33 year old Utley and his balky hip and bad knee
SS – they currently don’t have one. If they sign Rollins, he’ll be 33 in a couple of weeks. He’s been showing signs of decline these past 2 years.
3rd – 36 year old Polanco
RF – Pence
CF – Victorino
LF – Platoon with Mayberry and Brown? Brown hasn’t proven anything yet at the ML level with his bat and his defense is horrible.
C – Ruiz and looking for a backup. Nothing in the minors
Closer – looking for a closer unless they sign Madson
But hey, they’ve got a 3 top starters – if that’s what you’re referring to be ‘set’.
Well SRT let me ask you this…
If the Phillies are already TOO OLD and about to fail…
Is Sandy ready to win the Division next season as his plan is BASED on?
Lets see how could they fix their problems over there?
SS? Hey I know they could resign the NOT WORTH SIGNING Jose REYES!
Closer? I believe Sandy ensured them of having one they could purchase in K-Rod!
LF Well they could always sign Beltran if they wanted!
Point is If Sandy is waiting for the Great Phillie Collapse and you think the Phillies are on the verge of collapsing, then Sandy’s plan is goping to fail because he is too busy tearing down a team he should be building up in anticipation of their GREAT FALL!
One of the things that jumped out at me on another blog about this post is that the Braves are going to up their payroll to 87 million. this proves that spending smarter is preferable to spending more. That being said I have drank some of the koolaid on the fact that so far the FO hasn’t spent anything and looks to be treading water. I am hopeing that they will at least bring back Reyes. I still have faith even if it is misplaced.
They have 3 players making 65 million who they did not sign. They are still trying to get rid of the non-plan they inherited. It seems perfectly reasonable that they are still in freefall, and will be until they have control of their money. There is no unloading Santana or Bay. Trading Wright and letting Reyes walk brings them closer to that control, though.
jdon I understand what you are saying but I have a question. If the goal is to create a competing organization how can that be accomplished by trading the players that earn their salary while maintaining the ones that do not. Keeping Wright and Reyes is to me the only thing that makes sense because they are some of the few reasons that people watch this team.
They cannot get rid of the bad contracts. They are that bad. Wright did not earn his contract this year. Reyes is out of their range financially. Wright might just not be the kind of player they want, even when he is “performing”. They are the new sheriffs in town and you have to give them a chance to bring order to the franchise. We have not won with those guys. Usually when that happens teams clean house.
By give them a chance you mean by letting them sit around on thier butt until 2016 when those BAD CONTRACTS they can’t figure out how to get rid of go away on their own right?
Did it ever occur to you to KEEP Reyes so he is still here when that happens and then you could go and get whatever it is you think your going to get in 2014 or 2016?
That thought never crossed your mind as the SMART thing?
You want me to GIVE THEM A CHANCE to get rid of every player who IS good?
Why not give THIS team a CHANCE?
Why not give them the chance NOW by not valuing your wallet more than winning ballgames!
They are not BUILDING a damn thing all they are doing is TEARING DOWN the team by getting rid of all of it’s BEST PARTS first!
It is not what I want. I am explaining what I think they are doing. I am not a Reyes lover. I like to watch him but I don’t want his injuries. To me he will not be worth the contract he signs. The only way I can see someone thinking Reyes is worth that kind of money is if they firmly believe for whatever reason that he will not get hurt again …and again…and again. I happen to think he will. I have said this many times: every year teams win World Series without Jose Reyes playing for them, without even a Jose Reyes clone. He is not irreplaceable going forward if your goal is to win. If you just want to get excited, maybe he is. He is a fun player. But you can win without him. And you can win with a 100 million payroll. See St. Louis, 2011. My point was simple. The present FO is hamstrung by bad investments. They got rid of FMart this year when I never thought they could. They got a good prospect for Beltran despite the fact that no one could offer him arb at the end of the season: two significant accomplishments. Maybe they can unload Santana if he pitches pretty well and they eat some contract. Bay is hopeless, I am afraid. But you cannot expect someone to take a sow’s ear like the mets are and make a silk purse out of it in a year or two. You do not give guys like Wright away, just to get rid of him or his money. You make a deal to improve yourself. You draft well with the two picks you get for Reyes. It is called rebuilding. You can rebuild in NY. You can rebuild anywhere..
And their solution is to keep the two BAD contracts and purge the two GOOD ones!
This year (2012) we can’t keep Reyes because we have 65 Mil tied up in bad contracts.
Next year (2013 or sooner) we can’t keep Wright because we have 43 Mil in bad contracts on the books
Then in 2014 we won’t have enough money (because Attendance is at an all time low) to offer arbitration to Niese, Davis, Murphy, Thole…
So 2015 will be the first year there are no excuses to say don’t spend.
Omar got 6 years after three seasons of competition and one playoff appearance.
Anyone REALLY think Slashy is going to make it until 2015?
Nothing will change with this team until the “cause” of the over-all problem is gone. Any guesses as to what that might be ?? I’ve been a loyal fan for 45 years but its really getting harder and harder to stomach the mess the owners have created….I wish someone would come out with a wilpon tee-shirt……something along the lines of …Mets fan held hostage for (however long they have been primary owner)years…..by the wilpons….please give the fans their team back ! !
While that’s true, the current administration can also try and compete with the money they have no. No use worrying about the past.
And that’s the problem that gets overlooked by most people. The Holy Trinity did not even try and compete last off season and so far, although early, it looks like more of the same this year.
That’s my biggest problem, at least try and compete with whatever money you have and this year if the payroll is around 100-110 or who knows? Maybe it’s even more than it’s no more or less than a lot of other teams so USE IT. Let’s COMPETE!
And I agree with Adam Rubin when he said the front office is including money to be used towards next year’s draft as part of “payroll”. That’s not money to be budgeted with payroll, that’s a different budget.
I dislike the Wilpons. But if they give you a payroll of 100-110 million, you should be able to compete. The problem is too much of it is being wasted by the previous administration.
Ah, the daily gush on the Phils post!
anyway, they are not offering arbitration to a lot of those guys leaving, so they won’t be getting picks for Ibanez, lidge or Oswalt. madson and rollins yes, though they are also both likely to resign with the team.
Blame Alderson, he’s the buffoon who bases the Mets strategy on what the Phillies do. I warned all of you about his lackluster past and the only time he ever won anything was when he had one of the highest payrolls in baseball. This guy has no clue and now you are all seeing it for yourselves.
A buffon is someone that takes a statement by a “source” writing by the NY Tabloid as gospel and is already blaming Alderson for something that hasn’t happened.
Talk about no clue……..
Great thinking!! Of course, when the Phillies get old…all of those young studs in Florida will be hitting their prime…The Nats outstanding minor league talent will be hitting the MLB level, and the Phillies and Braves each have decent minor league systems, great pitching, and go after FAs. I love this waiting until the Phillies get old strategy!! Woo-hoo, go Met’s in 2025!!
The Mets need to follow the example set by these other teams in the division and start to build their minor league system. Whats the other option? To continue to have a huge payroll? Its not a real option anymore because fans stopped coming to the games. They spent almost half a billion dollars on payroll in the last few years for a losing product that kept having a lower attendance. So since that option is exhausted then they have to try something else.
“The Mets need to follow the example set by these other teams in the division”
Yes they need to try to win every year not 5 years from now!
Phillies don’t do that neither do the braves!
Neither does any team that made the playoffs!