2
2011
Yanks & Sabathia Avoid Free Agency. Mets & Reyes? Not So Much.
An article by 
“Happy Halloween, everybody. I just want to be the first to let Yankee fans know that we agreed to a contract extension. I’ll be coming back in 2012. I want to thank the Steinbrenner family for making that happen. My goal the whole time was to finish my career as a Yankee and hopefully I can do that. We seem to have gotten that accomplished today. So I look forward to seeing everyone at the ballpark next year. Thank you.”
~ C.C. Sabathia
How cool is that? Nice job by Brian Cashman and Yankee ownership for getting something done before C.C. Sabathia hit the open market. New York City is the grandest stage in sports and is the perfect setting for great players, and C.C. is certainly one of the greats.
According to all parties involved, the key to this deal was open lines of communication. The Yankee front office made sure Sabathia knew how much they respected him and wanted him back.
Players, especially free agents, love to know that a team really wants them. So now Sabathia will be a Yankee until 2016 and perhaps 2017. All through the 2011 season, one thing Sabathia said again and again (much like Jose Reyes) was that he loved New York and wanted to remain in New York.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch…
Sandy Alderson said yesterday that he does not foresee a quick resolution with Jose Reyes.
“There are some situations where a player might indicate what it would take for him to forgo the free-agent market. There are some situations where a club might try to make a preemptive offer to preclude that open bidding. I don’t think either one of those things is going to happen in this case. I don’t think Jose is going to give us a number for which he would forgo free agency. I don’t think we’re in a position to make him what I would characterize as a preemptive offer.”
Absolutely NO COMMUNICATION going on over here…
Yesterday I chuckled when I heard someone call this a “stealth-like” strategy. Really? I’ve never heard of a strategy of “non-negotiating” that ever led to a “negotiated deal.”
How can you make a deal when both sides are not even talking?
Is there an app for that?
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 30 | .583 | - |
| Phillies | 35 | 37 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Nationals | 34 | 36 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Mets | 27 | 40 | .403 | 12.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 48 | .314 | 19.0 |
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Ah, I don’t think the key to the deal wa communication. More like guaranteeing 3 more years at huge $$ to a 31 YO huge pitcher.
Joe, why not just get it over with and officially rename the blog the “he man Sandy haters club” or some such. Or just convert it to YMO.
All kinds of excuses by the Sandy supporters here.
Joe D is 1 BILLION percent right and I’ve been complaining about it here since yesterday. How did Sandy reach out to Jose? Via text? Through a 3rd party maybe? If I’m Jose i delete that text and make like I never read it. You want to talk to me? You want me to be part of your future? You want me on the team next year? I want to be here too but you have to CALL ME and talk to me about your intentions.
Maybe arrange a dinner meeting with me, my agent and you and either one of the other members of the Holy Trinity. How about that? Bring one or BOTH of the other 2 GMs along and SHOW me that you really do want me on this team.
I have family here…Jose has already says he enjoys living here, right?
Maybe he would sign before going out into the open market. Is Sandy even aware of that?
And it doesn’t matter if it’s the Yankees or the Twins or the Dodgers it IS about open lines of communication.
And listening to Sandy speak? How can anybody want to play for that guy. At least Steve Phillips and Omar Minaya showed enthusiasm about wanting to win when the spoke and they did (spare me the details and the 2nd guessing afterwards because that’s not what my reference is about, it’s about communication). Alderson always sounds like he just got back from a funeral for an Ivy Leaguer with him and his double speak.
Sandy did what he thought was in the Mets best interest. That’s good enough for me. You have been a griper for way more than just a day. It’s how most of us know you.
“1 BILLION percent right” …. lol
It must be a new math that is incomprehensible.
why don’t you go make up quotes, post blatant fabrications, and give false stories about Jerry Manuel’s whereabouts instead of following me around with unintelligent observations.
So what moves do you think Ruben Ama…I mean Pat Gillick will be making for the Phillies?
Sorry, Bayonne. When someone has a different opinion than you, grenades are tossed. Frankly, I sometimes think you’re either very confused or hopelessly stupid. I’ve never diddled with the facts. I don’t have to. If you can’t distinguish between facts and opinion, it’s your problem.
He’s not the only one Des (not including you in there BTW).
Hi Metsie,
You’ve said similar thoughts in the past. Are you willing to identify anyone else who is so strident and yet is without hard, cold facts? Inquiring minds want to know.
Des
I see no need to name names it’s pretty obvious to anyone who reads here regularly!
Alderson always sounds like he just got back from a funeral for an Ivy Leaguer with him and his double speak.
Perhaps.
You have reached new heights of ignorance, just when I thought it couldn’t be done.
This is my favorite “And listening to Sandy speak? How can anybody want to play for that guy. At least Steve Phillips and Omar Minaya showed enthusiasm about wanting to win when the spoke and they did (spare me the details and the 2nd guessing afterwards because that’s not what my reference is about, it’s about communication). Alderson always sounds like he just got back from a funeral for an Ivy Leaguer with him and his double speak”
So now you are determining the mans skills by the way talks. Omar spoke with enthusiasm and we won NOTHING.
Psst there is no such thing as being 1 Billion percent right.
And you have reached new heights in attacking a poster without any baseball logic or point being made!
And when he responds in kind you will say it’s all his fault!
Or we could do it your way and rename the site the WILPON BEANCOUNTERS!
Would adding 5 years at 5 Mil more a season than Reyes CURRENTLY gets to a not fat and not old guy be such a bad offer?
Not to reyes but to all you WILPON BEANCOUNTERS!
Face it Any most of you think he gets paid TOO MUCH already!
Giving Reyes crawford money is not much more than a 5 Mil per year raise on what Reyes already makes!
Truth is you BEANCOUNTERS feel ANY amount is too much which is why you don’t even want to talk because if we did Reyes might accept and then the PURGE THE PAYROLL philosophy everyopne wants to try will be over before it started!
pretty sure that the Mets would be happy to ink him up for 5/85 or so like you suggest. Just doubt he is taking it without shopping for a better offer.
And if you don’t make the offer you ENSURE your doubt plays true!
You left Reyes NO CHOICE but to shop around FOR an offer you naver gave him!
How can you say the key to the deal was not communication when Cashman said it was on the YES Network?
Also, I will criticize Alderson no more or less than I did Minaya. I dont have an agenda here and I have always been critical of what I consider to be bad moves regardless of who was running the show going all the way back to Grant. I don’t sway with the wind. I shoot from the hip, never take anything at face value, and won’t change my views just because the Mets have given me access.
I also let my other writers and readers post their opinions even if I totally disagree which you won’t see anywhere else especially among staff writers. We don’t all feed off the same brain here.
You can disagree with me all you want , but please don’t question my Mets loyalty because you disagree. I was one of the original Mets blogs on the internet, long before everyone jumped into the pool. And nobody encourages a wider diversity of opinions than I do on MMO. Nobody.
The issue seems to be Joe is that some think spending money is ALWAYS a mistake!
They cite the few BAD contracts that get signed and dismiss the GOOD ones because they are under the impression that SPENDING means FAILURE PERIOD!
This is largely a product of the WAR metric, Phantom Wins, Phantom player = Phantom Results!
They believe War tells them what they will get if they just put a guy from AAA in.
THATS why Spending = Failure!
Just throw a AAA body in there…
Hence the lets trade anything we DO have or let it go in favor of picks methodology,
SO they can keep the conga line of replacements going when the WAR metric fails them and they don’t get the PHANTOM results their metric said they would get if they just replaced him!
Two completely different GMs here. One has had 14 consecutive winning seasons, while the other has had 7 straight losing seasons. There’s no comparison. Just forget Reyes, they dont want him back.
Two different teams with two different financial restrains too…………….
This is NOT the NY Yankees……..never was, never will be……….if that’s what you’re looking for, go for it……….
Keep your panties on JoeSmith, I didnt say anything that wasn’t true here. We all understand that they are two different teams, just count the chapionships in the last 15 years.
Just count the payroll as well.
Cashman hasn’t been the GM the whole time. that ball got started rolling by Gene Michael.
And Bob Watson.Cashman took over when the team was already built.
I tend to agree with Joe on this one. If the Mets really, really wanted to retain Jose Reyes, he would not have hit the FA market.
If Alderson is hedging his comments on Jose Reyes and talking about earmarking funds for amateur draft signing bonuses, it does not appear that he’s intending to re-sign Reyes. Instead, it appears as if he’s earmarking the savings toward signing the additional draft picks that we’ll receive as compensation. Not the worst strategy, either.
I mean, St. Louis just won a World Series with Rafael Furcal at shortstop. I think Alderson is hunting around for a prospect in the realm of Toronto’s Mirasneck.
If we don’t re-sign Reyes, then I think we should just smash the mold entirely and trade Wright to Colorado for catching prospect Wilin Rosario and pitcher Drew Pomeranz. Second, shortstop and third base could be covered by a combination of Havens, Tejada, Turner & Murphy. Zach Lutz will soon be ready.
I agree and my preference is to just blow it up and rebuild as well. But I doubt that the $20 million a year they wont spend on Reyes will be used to invest more on the draft. They already have a different budget for that and it’s not counted as part of payroll.
Colorado is not trading Pomeranz,I repeat,they ‘re not trading Pomeranz.They did not trade Ubaldo Jimenez for Pomeranz so that they could turn a round and trade him for one year of David Wright.Not happening.
agreed.
Maybe, just maybe, Sandy doesn’t place the same value on Jose that some of the fans here do.
If the past is prologue to the future, no change would ever be necessary for pennant winners. But in baseball, we know that is not the case. That’s why all teams have so many bad long term contracts. Let’s consider Jose. He is a player who has had some brilliant days of the field in the past. But he is someone who depends on his legs and has had a history of lower limb injuries. Maybe his future will not be good as his past. Sandy has to make a tough call. He’s making it. I’ll go with Sandy’s judgment.
Who cares what the Yankees did?
No surprises here.
If there’s one thing we all knew it’s that Reyes was going to file for FA, had said over and over how excited he was to be a FA and go through the process for the first time in his career. That just about told us all we needed to know. If there were any illusions the Mets FO would get a deal done this week, Jose’s comments should have dispelled all notions of that.
This is just plain torture. I wish Alderson would just say he is not re-signing Jose Reyes and move on already. Why is he going to drag this our for three months when he already knows this isn’t happening? Haven’t Mets fans been through enough already? He says that he didn’t want to punt in 2012 I read somewhere else, well let’s see what you got? Make a trade and get some arms for the bullpen and rotation. Just do something for crying out loud!
Ya, it is really great when the player reaches out as well.
Because, generally, there is more than 1 side in a negotiation.
Looks like Mets fans got the TRICK and Yankees fan got the TREAT. Same old, same old.
Take the No. 6
6 doesn’t go to 161. the 4 B and D do.
Thanks, but I could care less where he goes! lolol
Take the Thruway and then Rt 17 (exit 16 on the Thruway) to go see the team you want Sandy to rebuild!
This team is starting to resemble “Grant’s Tomb” (for those who remember those wonderful late 70′s).
Whatever, if SA really wants Jose back despite the numbers you open up lines of communication, you are in constant contact with agent and player.
You take Jose and his wife out to eat and talk how much you want him and his family to be part of the Mets family and all the off the field consideration that could follow.
This would not hurt netotiations or the dollar amount but let Jose know how much Mets want him back are willing to work instead of comments at pressers that he won’t hear.
You know what tells a player you like him and want him part of the team?
Having a night dedicated to celebrating him and giving out banners of him. Somehow, dinner and a movie doesn’t quite stack up to that.
teams normally woo other teams FAs like that. After 7 years, he knows the city and the team.
and players don’t play for GMs, they play for money. And they care about how much the check is. I highly doubt that any FA ever refused to sign because the GM was deliberate, or a boring speaker.
If boring and depressing turned off FAs, they yanks would never get any.
But it’s Alderson’s first year. He was here before and players DO make decisions to play on other reasons based on money just ask Cliff Lee.
Taking your SS and his wife out to a restaurant for a business meeting and letting him know for you directly how much you mean to the future of your franchise and discussing a starting point only would have helped, not hurt.
That’s how you do business.
letting him know “from” you, not for
So a night dedicated to how great he is where thousands of people were waving banners with him didn’t show he was wanted?
Can I ask a potentially silly question? There is a quote above by Tommy2Cat that seems to summarize several people’s views very well “I tend to agree with Joe on this one. If the Mets really, really wanted to retain Jose Reyes, he would not have hit the FA market.”
However, I question it’s validity. For example, would you say the Cardinals do or do not want to retain Albert Pujols? Of course they do, but they let hit him the market. And why did they?
Think about this for a second. If I’m a buyer and you believe you are worth 120mil for 7 years (hypothetically). How can I know that is fair market value, unless the market dictates that?
What if Reyes’ best offer out there is 5 yr/95 mil? Couldn’t you make a serious argument that by letting him hit the market he saved the Mets potentially 2 contract years and millions of dollars?
Or what if somebody signs Reyes to a dumb contract. If Reyes’ agent believes Washington will offer 7yr/140mil lets just say, then he’s not going to let Reyes sign for less anyway.
Sports agents have data analysts and their job is to take the profile of their clients, and set a market value for that player based on their past and predicted progression. This is so if they find Reyes is WORTH 5/90, they don’t go into a negotiation starting lower than that number. They don’t just take offers and pick the best one. There is more work to it than that.
So if Reyes’ agency says “Based on the market projection, Reyes can get 120/7 somewhere” and we all KNOW the Mets aren’t signing him to that without proof he can get that, then why wouldn’t he hit the market?
The only way Alderson can make a wise choice for the sake of the franchise is for Reyes to hit the open market. The same goes for the Cardinals. Pujols wants obscene money right? And like a 10 year deal? So the Cardinals have to take the risk and let another team make an offer.
If Pujols wants to be a Cardinal, he and his agent will contact the Cards with a chance to match or beat their best offer… just as Reyes would.
And please do not forget. All this talk about the Yankees signing Sabathia etc. Don’t forget Derek Jeter hit the open market last year.
Solid post.
thanks NJ. I think people rush to judge or panic on everything the Mets do. There’s really nothing bad that can come from Reyes hitting the market. Either A) his demands are lowered because the market dictates that or B) Some team pulls a Jayson Werth move and overpays and there’d be no reason for the Mets to go that route.
The fact remains, Reyes’ agents have a projection of where all negotiations should begin. If they feel a FAIR offer is 95/5, then the offers for Reyes will have to tank for him to make less than that. That would be the starting point. So it’s in the Mets best interest to see what the market says and keep tabs on Reyes.
Also, if they have a projection, and the Mets hit on it right away, they are going to say to themselves, if the Mets came out swinging with this offer, there are bound to be others with A. a contender or B. a larger contract offer. Granted, he may want to stay and if his needs are met he’d be inclined to take it, but in this day and age, there is not, nor should there be, an allegiance to a team as a player. It’s a business, first and foremost.
Oh I think he thinks they think logic method here?
You forgot one option….
If they think that much about me then why not just stay here not have to move continue to live in the biggest maket with the most marketing and sponsorship deals instead of moving to Kansas City where there is much less money to be made OUTSIDE of my Salary and nothing else to do on my day off!
Sure he might think he can get much more on the open market!
But he could also get less and by the time he figures it our we reduce our offer to PAY LESS!
Because he looked a gift horse in the mouth and it cost him!
Nothing good can come from it either! All your doing is risking the possibility that he takes first offer from someone else because he feels our lack of making one means what everyone else believes….Slashy doesn’t really want him at all if he did he would make an offer!
I was thinking of Jeter as well. That was a rather ugly negotiation that went public with comments by ownership that they are running a business regarding the face of the organization and the GM telling him to go see what he is worth. The Yankees and how they have dealt with resigning their homegrown players is a topic that has come up before and not always in a good way. Andy Petite in particular comes to mind. Though Jeter did sign that 10 year deal with 1 year remaining on his contract but he also was coming off 4th W.S. ring over the last 5 years that coincided with his 5th full season as a Yankee as well.
“How can I know that is fair market value, unless the market dictates that?”
Because the offer you make is FAIR MARKET to you!
You know what YOUR willing to pay!
Not making it does not REDUCE the number you will pay!
What you guys don’t seem to understand is how to play the negotiation game!
First thing you do is ASK the other side what he wants. What will get the deal done?
If he balks at giving a number then you make a lower offer than you actually think he is worth (TO YOU) on the Market! Now he has to either come up with a counter offer to give you or go look elsewhere and if the MARKET is LOWER (as you seem to be suggesting) than your number then you now have the option to say sorry my offer is lower now because you let the Market lower it by refusing my original offer!
You seem to think that you can’t LOWER an offer as quickly as you can increase one!
Bottomline here is you should NEVER operate under what you think someone else will give them you should approach based on WHAT YOU WOULD PAY some other guy with those same numbers!
Tell the player what that number is and if he balks then you lost NOTHING!
If the Market goes higher well you can still increase your bid and if he declines your original and the Market lowers you can decrease that offer just as quickly!
By not making an offer you saved nothing because now your letting someone else set what you have to pay!
If you make a good and reasonable offer of what you think a guy is worth be him yours or someone else’s property then you have a shot at keeping him BEFORE some idiot overbids him!
And chances are likely the number will ALWAYS go UP not down when the Market comes into play!
The best way to avoid that is to pay him what he’s worth to you BEFORE Washington has a chance to offer him A-Rod like money like they did with Werth!
And bottomline if you can’t figure out what a fair market value is for a player you own you have no business being a GM for an MLB team in the first place!
Because if you don’t know how much your OWN players are worth how the hell can you tell what some other team’s player is worth when you make an offer for them in FA?