14
2011
Patience Not Hysteria With Reyes Reports
An article by 
Last week it was “Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!” as Dr. Peter Venkman would say.
Now it’s “well well Sandy still hasn’t made his offer”
Yeah and neither have the other teams who are interested.
The biggest reason I’m not all over Alderson for not “making an offer,” is because I feel he’s testing the market. Just like the Cardinals are testing the Pujols market by not up’ing their offer. Right now, as far as “we” know, the market for Jose Reyes is NOT in Reyes’ favor.
You can knock Alderson all you wish, but his job is to do what is best for the Mets, not Jose Reyes. If right now, the only team hot and heavy for Reyes is the Marlins as reports suggest, then that is good news for the Mets front office and their fans. However, it’s still early. I have no doubt the market will grow, but on this day, the market is favoring Sandy Alderson.
You know why the Marlins did what they did?
They are trying to sell season tickets, and create buzz around their new park/logo etc. They may sign some of these guys who knows… but it’s no mistake that the SAME WEEK they unveiled their new marketing plan just HAPPENED to be the same week they made it public they were having discussions with Reyes, Pujols, etc.
You know what everybody was talking about in baseball last week? The Miami Marlins. Mission accomplished.
It’s still very early in the process and frankly if Reyes HAD left that meeting and signed with the Marlins, his agent should be fired.
Everybody needs to relax a bit and understand it’s not even Thanksgiving. This could be Reyes’ only real chance to be wined and dined by MLB clubs across the country and talk “turkey.” He’s not going to jump and take the very 1st offer he gets.
It’s still very possible that Reyes would sign with the Marlins at some point, but I highly doubt it would happen without some sort of discussion with serious players in the free agent market. The Detroit Tigers could sneeze out a better offer than the “reported” Marlins offer, you think Peter Greenberg is going to let Reyes sign without talking to teams like Detroit, Washington, Milwaukee, Boston, Philadelphia, San Francisco and oh yea the New York Mets and maybe even the Yankees?
I’m not saying all of those teams would make him an offer, but I’d bet the majority of them would have a discussion with Reyes about it.
I love the Hot Stove season, but I also can’t stand it at the same time. It’s a season full of assumptions, and rumors to fill column space.
For Reyes, I may be in the minority but I’ve waited this long, I can patiently await a credible news source telling me where and when he’s signing before I worry about why the Mets didn’t sign him.
About the Author: Michael J. Branda
My time with MMO began in July of 2009 when I wrote a Fan Post defending Omar Minaya (before it was cool to do that.) I grew up a Mets fan with the mid 1980's teams. My favorite Met of all-time is (and was) Wally Backman. When it comes to sabermetrics versus old school thinking, I like to think I meet in the middle. I believe thinking of new ways to get answers is helpful, especially when the same way has not produced results. However, I think over-thinking certain situations can get you into trouble. I'm excited for the new regime, because I believe they have pieces in place to focus on several aspects of the Mets organization. I've waited this long for a World Series, waiting a few more years for another chance isn't going to kill me.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 26 | 18 | .591 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 22 | .511 | 3.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 24 | .467 | 5.5 |
| Mets | 17 | 25 | .405 | 8.0 |
| Marlins | 13 | 32 | .289 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/21/2013
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Of all the teams that might be interested in Reyes, Marlins are the last team I think he would sign, with only because the Marlins have been a miser team. The owner has been putting away his share of the revenue sharing money for years. His M O has been to trade away his young players once they get to a certain stage in their careers. The only on he has kept is Hanley Ramirez.
Well 22 the REASOn they have been a miser team is because they didn’t make a penny on concessions in Dolphin Stadium the Dolphins made it!
Now they get all that money to spend and that means no more Misers unless they suck and ruin their attendance!
Even if they only draw as many people as they did the last three years they will double their money made per game!
Just on food and beverages alone!
Thanks for letting me know it has nothing to do with attendance and more to do with concessions. Wait a minute.. don’t you need attendance to get concession revenue?
do you think moving closer to the city is going to mean NO attendance really?
They got NO money from concessions before!
If they have the same attendance which was SQUAT the last few years then they will double the money they had to spend compared to then.
I don’t see why you suggest otherwise!
We will have to see how much more their attendance increases with new stadium. Hopefully they do get more than they were, 18 thousand per game last year.
Well 22 i that if ALL they get is the 18K again they also get all the money from the food they ate and souvenirs they bought
Which is quite a substantial sum!
ah yes the great business plan of every MLB owner.
“We plan to sell more hot dogs.”
The new logo, apparel alone right before the holidays is a business plan.
Selling hot dogs is not. When you are not getting the $ from concessions, you’re also not paying out your vendors. You’re acting like for every $7 hot dog, Jeff Loria is getting $7 that he didn’t have.
There’s more to owning a stadium than selling a hot dog. Vendors, staffing, insurance etc.
When you buy a hot dog Loria isn’t standing in some dark corner going “Cha ching! cha ching!”
Do you know how much he made on cocessions in the last 10 years total Jessup?
NOTHING NADA ZILCH!
All that money went to the Miami Dolphins!
Did you know that?
Do you realize that his budget has been as low as it was because he wasn’t getting all that extra cash?
Did you realize MAYBE that Loria knows what YOU DO NOT that Reyes draws fans into the stands and probably will increase his attendance by signing him?
Metsie, just to bring this point home… do you know whether the Marlins were paying the concession staff or if the Dolphins were? Do you know who handled the insurance on the stadium? Do you know who negotiated the contracts with vendors?
I’m not saying the Marlins won’t make more $ based on concessions but they will make more $ based on advertising, corporate relationships, ticket packages with a new stadium than they will on the sale of a hot dog. A team doesn’t build their financial plan based on how many hot dogs they can sell.
Don’t forget the Marlins ponied up $155 million for the stadium to be built. It’s not like they cashed in a winning lottery ticket and are playing with house $ simply because they get the $ from every hot dog.
And they also purchased $100mil worth of parking from the city.
So that’s $255mil the Marlins are fronting for this stadium right off the bat. I guarantee you they are not paying Jose Reyes in hot dogs.
The franchise who has the concession contract was paying them but as part of the lease deal you could say the Marlins were paying SOMETHING towards the ushers, security and other support personnel that do not generate their own revenue.
Mets don’t pay the food vendors at CitiField either! A concession contract is awarded to someone (not sure who it is these days but for decades it was harry M Stevens at Shea) who sell the food, pay the workers and give the team a cut of whatever was sold!
That cut was always going to the Dolphins at Joe Robbie!
It will now go to the Marlins!
Bottomline is they are making a ton of money that was not going to them when they were at Joe Robbie!
What they would pay in rent before will now go to paying debt instead!
And dude 155 Million is what compared to what the Yankees spend in a season just on their players?
Wasn’t Loria’s Marlins one of the teams getting money from MLB revenue sharing program. As far I heard he was not re-investing.
Yeah well Burkhardt just tweeted that the rumors seem to be coming from the Marlins side as they believe they have reyes locked up and are just waiting for him to finish his tour of teams who contacted him before he signs!
Now what they offer may affect that outcome but even if it delays the signing the Marlins can be sure they will get a chance to match whatever offer he might get!
Can’t say we who have showed no interest other than GET BACK TO US is going to get the same. And even if he did, doesn’t mean we are prepared to match any offer in fact chances are likely that the Marlins ALREADY put him out of Sandy’s COMFORT zone!
I see Rubin suggested running a pool for Met fans on which date and which team Reyes signs. I think Rubin had the Marlins on 4 Dec.
One poster said: ‘The Pirates the Thursday after never’. LOL, probably about the only sure thing you can count on in the Reyes sweepstakes.
Anyway, tells me Rubin certainly expects him to sign with the Marlins.
I really have no idea. But I’m thinking 4 Dec is probably a little early.
If the Marlins wanted Reyes, and Reyes liked their offer he would have already signed. That he has not signifies that the offer is only compelling enough for him to be interested in talking to them.
Why would Reyes or any free gent sign the first offer he gets? Doesnt that kind of defeat the purpose of free agency?
No Patrickwhat his not signing signifies is that other eams expressed interest and they are now going to be talked to, Doesn’t say anything about the Marlins’ offer and it does not mean he doesn’t LIKE their offer in fact he might even take less money to go there than these other places who have showed interest!
Point is they have an offer on the table.
Now the question is are there any others? Is there a team that wants him more? and how much would someone offer to get reyes to sign right there on the spot?
Alderson is a smart guy. When it became obvious that Reyes was going to test the market, Sandy instinctively knew any ‘first offer’ was just a stalking horse to help Jose. Reyes’ agents were disappointed that the Mets weren’t early to the anticipated offers frenzy, but Sandy knew better. That honor apparently went to the Marlins. So far it hasn’t helped them. No surprises there.
So des I gues that statement means that the Marlins were DUMB to make an offer right?
After all if it’s dumb to make the first offer I wonder why someone always does and why that team is usually the one who has the best shot at landing him because they remain a part of the procces from the very beginning and only give up when the number goes too high but are in it while the number is still too low!
Metsie can I ask you a question without getting a flame?
Lets say he signs with the Marlins before he gets offers from teams like Detroit, Washington, Milwaukee, Boston, Philadelphia, San Francisco and the Mets
Why doesn’t that raise your eyebrow to wonder what is going on with all of the other teams? Are they all “moneyball” teams also?
What does it tell me? The mets should have made an offer because reyes was willing to take any reasonable offer to a team that showed they wanted him!
THATS what it tells me!
He wants to be WANTED not just paid more money than anyone else!
And no the other teams are being listened to aren’t they thats why he has NOT signed yet!
What does it tell you that a team who has stayed away from big signings makes a full court press to get reyes?
I know what the other teams not making an offer tells you!
You have a SECONDARY EXCUSE to fall back on when Reyes signs for a reasonable amount to excuse Sandy for showing a lack of interest!
Face it and just admit it Jessup you don’t want Reyes for ANY price you want the picks and all this talk about what other teams will or will not do what Reyes will or will not sign for is only relelvent to what excuse your going to use for blame deflection towards alderson!
If Reyes gets a big Payday you will say Sandy couldn’t afford it!
And if Reyes takes a reasonable deal you’ll say the rest of the league agreed Reyes wasn’t worth a lot of money!
Even if the money is around 5 year 100 Mil which you claimed you would do months ago but seem to be going back on!
YOU WANT THOSE PICKS, NOTHING ELSE!
I’m sorry you’re looking at this as a fanboy and not as a GM yet you’re trying to make claims against the GM.
If Jose Reyes doesn’t meet with other teams and signs with Florida, it logically means he wanted to be a Marlin and would use any Mets offer as leverage. If he signs with them without meeting other teams it also means other teams possibly saw the question marks on Reyes’ health as much as the Mets did.
The Marlins right now are bidding against themselves. A rule the Mets used to break frequently, and how did that work out for them?
The Marlins are bidding against themselves?
Really what did they bid AGAINST?
Theior original offer vs their original offer?
Where is the COMPETING bid pray tell!
I offer you $10
Oh wait no I offer you $10!
Wow thats a competition is it?
I wonder which bid I am losing on?
The $10 or the $10
Get a clue dude!
They are COMPETIING for a player, they are not bidding against themselves!
YOU think ANY offer os too much so they are competing with the NOTHING you think he is worth thats all!
Metsie, are you just yelling to hear how loud your voice can get?
“The Marlins are bidding against themselves? Really what did they bid AGAINST?”
If no other team has submitted an offer, then they are bidding against themselves. Just like the Mets did with Oliver Perez.
You understand that if nobody else makes an offer, and you do that you are going to over pay right? If you don’t know what 29 other GMs would pay, how can you not overpay?
Ok Jessup tell us the TWO BIDS the Marlins made!
What was the ORIGINAL offer and the Second bid they made to bid AGAINST THAT?
I’m yelling because your skull is DENSE!
You keep saying they are bidding against themselves when no such thing has happend at all!
PROVE they made more than one bid and that they cost themselves a penny because they made more than one offer!
If not I’m going to keep YELLING at the guy trying to lie his way through his Alderson is great spin cycle!
Oh let me be clear, since you love speaking for me.
If he signs 18/19 mil for 5 years with Florida, I would do that as a Mets GM and I would wonder why they didn’t. But I’d also wonder why no major market team matched or beat that offer?
I don’t think the answer will be as easy as “We just don’t like him that much.”
Maybe because they intend to get Fielder instead?
Maybe thy don’t need a leadoff hitting SS?
Maybe they don’t think they can AFFORD to beat a team who waited by a phone till midnight to be first on the list of teams Reyes talked to?
MAYBE they all think like you and think Reyes isn’t worth a plug nickel!
And Maybe they don’t want to lose their 1st rounder which doesn’t apply to the Marlins because they keep thier 1st and only give up one pick not two!
None of that seems to have occurred to you has it?
No it has to be because the league agrees with you and Sandy that Reyes isn’t worth squat!
I’m not putting these words into your mouth you have been saying it since before the season started!
You claimed that 5 Years 100Mil was a good deal until the point where it looked like that might be enough to get reyes to sign!
And if it is and we had made that deal during Exclusive rights we might have already signed him if he really wants to play here more than anywhere else!
So, the Mets never dedicated a night to him or ever referred to him as a great player who helps the team win?
He just wants to feel wanted? Is he a 15 year old girl or something?
No they didn’t ddicate a night to him where they said we want you and are willing to pay you this much to keep you!
Marlins did!
So what happened August 5th?
What happened?
Wow you really want a clobbering don’t you?
They had an EVENT to get fans in the stands and used one of the ONLY remaining stars that exist on the team (Thanks Sandy) to try and get people to actually come as a MARKETING GIMMICK!
THATS what happened August 5th!
An attempt to get people to show up which will no longer be available to solve their ATTENDANCE issues that caused the financial mess you are trying to use as an excuse to not sign reyes!
So, thousands of people waving banners with his face on them, just one of many times he was featured, is not as good as a dinner?
Nope especially when it did more for your finanes than reyes’!
Mets got a good turnout for thier STAR!
Reyes was USED that night not wined and dined!
What does “he wants to be wanted” mean? Are we talking about a High School girl that wants to go to her Prom, or a MILLIONAIRE Professional athlete that is wishing to make additional millions of dollars?
Where do you get that information from?
If it’s about being wanted, well the fans spoke loud and clear, and it’s now up to Reyes if he wants to listen, isn’t it about the fans? No way he didn’t know about the “Please Stay Reyes” T shirts, and rally at the Shea Bridge, all the signs in the stands etc….. Sorry if it’s about being wanted, that speaks more than being taken to a restaurant for a meal.
It has nothing to do with being wanted, but everything about what is best for Jose Reyes.
How frequently do the teams that make the first offer land the guy they want? Got a number for us?
Teams who make the first offer remain in the game until THEY decide to get out!
Teams who do NOT make the first offer OFTEN lose out to another team who acted quickly!
Didn’t answer my question. you just used some cliches to justify your vague assumptions.
Yes I did you just refused to accept the answer!
ALL OF THEM get a chance to sign him!
MANY of them DO!
How many teams who make NO OFFER have ever signed a guy!
You show me numbers on that and I’ll do the work to show you how many first bidders got their man!
I don’t expect you to though so I am planning on going out and get something worthwhile done as opposed to talking to a guy who asks questions but never answers them!
No, I asked you a stright forward question and you didn’t answer it. You just put down a bunch of fluff to distract from your inability to answer.
Answer mine first!
How many teams that have made NO OFFER have ever signed a player?
I answered your questions first last time and you ran away when it came time to answer mine so you first this time!
How many NON OFFERRING teams have ever landed a player?
Every team that MAKES an offer first has first chance and usually last chance to get the player if they really want them!
No, I asked you a straight forward question. Please stop trying to distract from it or don’t address me.
And you got a straight forward answer!
Your turn!
No, you did no answer my question at all. How frequently do the teams that open the bidding get the guy they want? And I mean on big marquee guys like Reyes.
A number. A percentage, A ballpark estimate. Something not vague cliches and shouting to distract from your inability to answer.
Ok here you go….100′s of teams who made the first offer got their man! Yankees, BoSox, just about EVERY TEAM in the league has gotten the guy they were first bidders on and multiple times!
Now your turn!
How many teams who have made no offer have succeeded in getting their guy?
RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN RUNAWAY!
So, you can’t answer my direct question. OK, then, you really don’t have much to offer. Have a nice day.
I did answer it directly! 100′s!
Your the one who has yet togive the answer to a question!
Running Away again?
so, hundreds out of a 30 team league?
Is that a followup question without answering my first?
Gonna give a straight forward answer to mine?
Or run away like a scared little boy again and try to change the subject?
YES HUNDREDS! Because each of those 30 teams have gotten a guy on first bid MULTIPLE TIMES!!!!!!!!!
Way more than 3.3 each!
Yankees made the first bid on CC sabathia did they get him?
We made the first bid on Buchholz, we got him!
And thats only in the last two months thats happend!
NOW ANSWER OR ADMIT I’M RIGHT!
How many teams who have not made an offer have ever signed the guy?
Come on smart ass stop doing the dance of dopes trying to avoid it and tell us HOW MANY?
Notice how Matt Kemp got a huge extension once McCourt agreed to sell the team.
It literally took less than 2 weeks.
As long as the Wilpons are in control and in court, nobody will get signed to a 8 figure a year deal in Queens.
That’s true, but I think a little bit of it has to do with the fact that the owner had no real financial constraints on him, as in nothing that limits his spending. McCourt has to sell because of divorce proceedings, not because he’s broke, like the Wilpons. I agree with you mostly, but it’s not an identical scenario. Having Kemp locked up increases the value of the franchise during the sale. The Wilpons aren’t forced to sell yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if a similar situation makes Ike Davis a very rich man if the reports of a sale in 2016 are accurate.
Yeah it’s a little different, but I think the end result is the same. The Mets aren’t spending any real money until the Wilpon’s are gone.
Also, Kemp is a better rounded player than Reyes (way more power) and is slightly younger.
He also got a deal similar to what Reyes is supposedly seeking and the Dodgers had to pay more to keep him from hitting free agency.
To see Jose play in an ugly Marlins uni next year next to his “best man” from his wedding on the team that tried to call him an “hot dog” no pun intended for the concession believers would drive me crazy along with having to see him play 18 times against Mets, WOW!
Wasn’t this team in 2008 trying to start a fight with him at 3b?