9
2011
MMO Fan Shot: A Hall Of A Comparison!
An article by 
Here is a tale of two players…
Let’s start off with career averages in some key Categories:
| Career Averages per Season | |||||||
|
G |
PA |
RS |
H |
BA |
OBP |
SLG |
|
| Player A |
108 |
471 |
81.3 |
107.8 |
0.279 |
0.401 |
0.419 |
| Player B |
116 |
537 |
81.6 |
144.4 |
0.290 |
0.336 |
0.432 |
Here is the thing about this comparison.
Both are similar type players,
Both had a history of hamstring issues causing them to lose playing time during their career
Both were premier Leadoff men for the teams they played for
Both used Speed as a their main weapon
One is considered too much of an Injury Risk because Speed players lose it after they are past their prime!
One played 25 years and well into his MID FORTIES!
ONE was inducted to the Hall of Fame! Something said was not even remotely possible for the other player!
Can you tell which one was which from the Chart showed above?
I present to you:
Player A = Ricky Henderson!
Player B = Jose Reyes!
Memo to Sandy Alderson:
PLEASE SIGN THIS POSSIBLE HALL OF FAMER!
This Fan Shot was submitted by Mike (Metsie). Have something you want to say about the Mets? Share your opinions with over eleven-thousand Mets fans who read this site daily. Send your Fan Shot to GetMetsmerized@aol.com.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 43 | 30 | .589 | - |
| Nationals | 35 | 36 | .493 | 7.0 |
| Phillies | 35 | 38 | .479 | 8.0 |
| Mets | 27 | 41 | .397 | 13.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 49 | .310 | 20.0 |
Last updated: 06/20/2013
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ok metsie, I LOVE reyes, but i think you need to just relax a bit on reyes being compare to the greatest leadoff hitter of all time.. listen, no offense to you, i don’t know how old you are, but unless you saw rickie henderson played during his entire career comparisions to reyes are a bit absurd. i mean, i am not saying reyes cannot be a HOF, just saying compare him to any hall of famer,specially rickie, is a stretch. with rickie it was more than just numbers. his style, his play, his patient, his power, his speed, i mean. rickie had it all man. so comparing reyes with him makes no sense. good post, but i think you’re stretching it a bit.
Why do you hate Jose Reyes?
I did see Ricky play…
I also saw Ricky sit a whole lot too Which is where I took the cue to see how often he played 160 games in a season.
The point was more to show how speed as a weapon doesn’t diminish the players ability to have a long career!
And to show that while a guy who walks a lot can have a high OBP he doesn’t actually get a lot of RS out of that!
At least not more than Reyes does!
Reyes is the better hitter of the two.
I didn’t mention it but he has 44 RBI per season compared to Rickey’s 39 average.
A product of the HITTING!
It’s not important to compare them against each other the idea was not to say Reyes is a better or Henderson a WORSE player, only that they are SIMILAR in respect to they are guys who use speed, Guys who score runs because of it and guys who had injury problems stopping them from playing 162 games in a season.
When you play 24 years in the MLB that in itself usually gets you some Hall consideration.
Lets see how long reyes plays…
But lets stop trying to find excuses for this era’s BEST leadoff hitter to fail so we can make exscuses for not signing him!
I agree with Alex that the comparison to Rickey here is a stretch. I see that the point you was trying to make Metsie was to show “speed as a weapon doesn’t diminish the players ability to have a long career” but I have to say if you didn’t say that in a comment I would of never had known that is what you was trying to say.
It just looked like you was saying Reyes is as good as the HOF Rickey Henderson.
MNJ, the point is, whether you compare ricky with reyes or not is yor opinion. ppl shouldn’t mock you for it, or reply with snarks, or sarcastic remarks. make your point and move on, you don’t have to be an ahole and leave replies like that’s like comparing an all time great with a bum..
what ppl fail to realise is if reyes does have 3 more seasons like this one, or win 3 or 4 more batting titles, wouldn’t he at least be a strong posibility to be a HOf?? Why the thought of a met player be in the HOF is such drastic?? why is it ok to PEG CRAIG KIMBREL as the best closer in the game in his first year but is an insult to think reyes can be a HOF? these dbags AGGGEE, JESSE and the tail licker are damaging this site really fast with their instigations and remarks
Alex I will defend Jessup here in respect to he at least mocked the numbers in his post.
It’s the others who have just grabbed their pom poms and made no reasonable contribution that are the ones who should be taken to task!
But I will give Jessup a pass for his first two posts on the subject.
It’s his cheerleaders who are the worst offenders!
metsie, i see what you’re trying to do here. but still, he’s the biggest Duuuush of them all.. and i don’t say what i really think he is because joe D told me not to bring up anything of that magnitude here to avoid confrontation… he’s still an ahold imo and will always be. he’s an arrogant guy who thinks knows more baseball than all of us combined, yet this man probably started watching baseball in 2006 when the mets were good…
No Donal is! Jessup is just the guy who Donal agrees with to pick who to slam and who to cheer!
Arrogance of position is much difference than NO OPINION just insults which is what Donal does!
But I understand why you include him in the crap…
He may be the OPINION the idiots flock to but that doesn’t make Jessup the cause of the crap!
You said a lot there but let me reply with this. Everyone is entitled to share their personal opinions on all things baseball here and at the same token everyone should expect a reply from others when they do so.
That’s called a discussion.
What no one deserves is as you said to have their opinions be answered with personal insults, sarcasm or being mocked or threats of physical violence.
That’s called being childish.
Right now Joe D is working hard to try and reign in much of the childishness that has been going on. He has made it better but I still see it manifest itself here everyday.
You, Metsie and I disagree on many issues without reducing it to what I described as childishness. I don’t know why it’s so difficult for this to be done with many others?
Because MNJ we are both intelligent and while we disagree we disagree on POINTS and APPROACH
Not with each other’s intelligence!
The problem we have here are there are a few folks who have NO intelligence!
They don’t even have an opinion just like SOME poster’s opinions over another.
And since they can’t make a post to ADD baseball discussion to help support that opinion they resort to the name calling and insults because thats all their limited mind can come up with!
I don’t blame the stupid for being stupid it’s not really their fault!
We need stupid people to be honest! Without them how would know who is smart! LOL
I have run message boards since the early 80′s thats how far I go back!
when the BBS was the closest thing to a web anyone had and modems worked at 300 Baud!
I know how difficult it is for JoeD here.
And I am as guilty at times of doing the bad post as anyone because at some point you get caught up in it and regress to the audience.
I will never have an issue with a post like Jessup made in reply to my piece because he attacked the numbers not me!
You can attack my points as infinitum and I will never get riled.
But when all you can add is your an idiot or your a liar it is those posters we can do without!
You see Metsie but that’s just it. There is no need to even say people are stupid. All that does is incite making things worse. It is like you said at the end of your comment with a tweak, “when you add your an idiot or your a liar it is those comments we can do without!”
BTW it was funny to read that you was also go back to the days of BBS. I quickly had flashbacks of my ACER 144000 modem making the noise it did when establishing a connection. Thanks for the memory flashback.
Well I equate a BIG difference in saying “PEOPLE” are stupid and Attaching a NAME in place of the word people!
One is a statement on the realities of the human condition and the other is a personal attack!
I have no problems with someone saying something I did was dumb provided they don’t just say YOUR DUMB!
And as long as they show where I made a mistake I accept it!
Most don’t do that, Jessup did!
Which is why I defended him here!
Yeah I remember the good old days where to post something you had to dial through an hour of busy signals to post something!
Things were more civilized back then because when you have to wait an hour to get online you make what you say count! LOL
No, no, no ,no.
You are one of the ones who attacks people based on everything but what they actually post. You also stand by and applaud others for doing so. You don’t get to play that card. You don’t get to cry when someone pulls your own card on you.
Metsie tried once again to misrepresent statistical data to prove his point as is again called out for it.
how are you or aggee calling out metsie on his post? by saying to me:
Donal says:
November 9, 2011 at 9:32 am
Why do you hate Jose Reyes?
or saying this in the article:
t agee says:
November 9, 2011 at 9:24 am
This is like comparing Hank Aaron and Greg Luzinski.
how is this debating or calling metsie out? seriously.. tell me
My response is a reference to when you and others attacked people who said the Reyes was not presently on a HoF course, claiming we were bashing him.
Agee was pointing out the flaw in one of Metsie’s assumptions, that you can compare all players with a certain attribute to the the #1 player with that attribute.
yet he failed to produce any numbers didn’t he?
Just a one liner no discussion!
I know thats your modus operandi but Tag is better than you!
MUCH MUCH BETTER!
And I have already gone on Record saying I have no issues with the posts Jessup made about my piece!
Can’t say the same for you!
We can’t talk math with you before we fix the problems in your logic.
Your entire piece is predicated on the idea that a straight comparison can be made between 2 players who played in different eras who happen to share one attribute. That is simply false, especially when you realize that the player you are using as a measuring sick is the greatest of all time with his skill set.
Then, you cherry pick numbers to prove your point. When what you did is put into proper context, your argument completely falls apart.
You don’t argue in good faith. You simply try to squeeze the facts into your preconceived notions.
Put the mirror down or stop posting conversations you should be having with yourself!
That was so sad. Are you OK? Did you bang your head or something? All of the ridiculous, fallacy laden, long winded, pointless things you post, and that is what you come up with?
Well MNJ just look at the length of it compared to my other novels and you will see I didn’t really flesh out the piece instead trying to be brief and to play a little game of SURPRISE with people who would have predicted Player B was the HOF merely looking at the numbers only to find Player A was at the end!
I could have gone into much greater detail but in deferrence to what was said about comparing Arron, it is very difficult and not the best thing to compare two players from different eras since they both have different situations in which the game was played!
Just wanted to show that Reyes is not done compiling stats and playing baseball anytime soon!
It’s a possibility just as Wheeler could easily blow out his arm next year and be forced out of baseball!
Injury is a BAD parameter for judging a baseball player.
What he does when he DOES get in the game and how often he gets into the game is may more important!
And just because a player who is likely in the middle of his career might not seem like a sure thing HOF lock doesn’t mean he is done compiling stats that could get him there!
And who knows exactly WHY Ricky made the Hall? Doesn’t appear to be his batting ability.
Most likely it is all those stolen bases not his actual numbers and certainly not his OBP!
Reyes COULD be considered for the HOF if he manages to have as long a career (or even plays till he is 40) if he keeps on hitting the way he has.
And the fact he has been on the DL more often hasn’t really hurt his games played numbers all that much compared to Henderson!
What the future holds who know but no one predicted Henderson would play til he was 44 either!
I still don’t see how this post makes the point of showing what you said which was that “speed as a weapon doesn’t diminish the players ability to have a long career”. Especially since the one thing that most closely is a result of speed (stolen bases) you omitted from your post.
I am glad to see you say it is very difficult and not the best thing to compare two players from different eras since they both have different situations in which the game was played. I recall saying the same when you tried to compare Reyes if I am not mistaken to Phil Rizzuto.
I agree that Reyes career is not over and hopefully he will have a long one with the Mets will it be a HOF career? Who knows but even if it is not or if it is somewhere else I wish him the best.
Regarding the who knows why Rickey got in the Hall. The man was awesome. He is the All Time leader in stolen bases, runs scored and walks (Yes Bonds is the leader) as far as I am concerned.
They are SIMILAR PHYSICAL players!
Legs are their asset!
Legs being the strongest limb in the human body!
Having an injury history of Hamstring does not a short career make!
Thats the main comparison!
As for RS I think I did show that!
Both are leadoff hitters.
What is key is that Ricky stayed a leadoff hitter for most of his career.
Reyes can too!
What made Ricky great was the base stealing yes!
But he wasn’t stealing 100+ bases after age 24!
In that instance Jessup would be correct in his PRIME assertions!
Reyes is doing roughly the same RS without those stolen bases!
Reyes is the better HITTER!
So while what Henderson was great at DID decline what Reyes is good at most likely will not!
That means he will be productive much longer because BA is not something that always declines with age in fact it can be maintained far longer than stealing bases can!
And that give Reyes just as much chance to get into the Hall as the first 6 years of Hendersons’s stealing bases did!
I’ll just repeat what I have said before and leave it at that. Can he make the H.O.F.? Yes, I can’t say he can’t. Maybe in 10 years we will look back in amazement at how Reyes has done but right now I’d have to say I don’t see Reyes as a H.O.F. SS rather I see him more of a great SS.
Totally agree with Alex on this one.Rickey was the type of player that could wreck a game all by himself.He could steal over 100 bags and hit 28 HR’s.He averaged a 400 OB for 25 years which is an amazing accomplishment.I hink Jose is a tremendous player but not in the same breath as Rickey.We may never say another player like Rickey again. Reyes is a leadoff hitter with a career 340 OB% and itt was 335 going into last year.It took a career year for Jose to get it up to 340.
One thing you’re not taking into consideraton is when averaging ot their overall numbers.Rickey’s last decade or so he wasn’t an everyday player so that will bring down his avg’s per season.Rickey had seasons of 146,130,119 runs scored and Reyes has never approached anything like that.
I’d love to compliment you on your article but the fact is it’s absolutely ridiculous.
Lets start with the first and most obvious miss step
In 1981 there was a strike which is why Henderson only played in 108 games. So using that against him to come up with a falty average is some terrible research on your part.
If you take out a strike shortened season and take out the fact he was called up in 1979 he has an average of 140 games played. Compared to Reyes’ 122 (I don’t count his called up year against him)
His first stint on the DL was in 1985 with the Yankees. He was 26, and the time lasted from March 30-April 22nd.
In 1987 he only played in 95 games, because of two DL stints in June and July. He was 28.
So through the same age as Reyes, Rickey Henderson was on the DL 3 times in his career. Reyes? 7.
Henderson then played 140-150-136-134-117-134-87(strike)-112-148-120-152 that is through the age of 39!
That’s an average of 129 games played over EIGHTEEN YEARS! Reyes’ average through 8 is less than that!
Henderson went on the DL in 91, twice in 92, once in 94, once in 97 and once in 99
Through his 40th Birthday he was on the DL 8 times! Reyes has been on 7 times through 28.
I could rip apart the other aspects of your assumption, but frankly it’s too easy. If you’re going to sit here and say Jose Reyes and Rickey Henderson are valid comparisons than you are either clueless as to who Henderson is, or you’re just begging for some way to pump Reyes up into something he is not.
I’ll give you the strike shortened season…
I counted the rookie year for both.
Rickey in his career never started more than 158 games in a season, That was his second year!
His next most GP was 153, 152 and 150 everything else is under 140
Reyes started 161 Hhe has 3 other seasons of 160, 159 and 153.
Counting DL stints is wrong headed if you ask me because not every hurt player who misses games actually GOES on the DL!
Reyes played in 72% of the games he could play in. IF we are to remove rookie seasons then the number jumps to 75%
If you take out the strike and Rookie for Ricky he plays in about 77%
But you seem to miss the BIGGER points made here!
The general excuse for not giving Reyes a long term contract is that he is a speed player and speed players LOSE it after they get past their prime! Become useless!
Rickey was a speed player, He was even MORE a speed player than Reyes is! Rickey played until is mid forties!
He WALKS more while Jose HITS more! Yes Ricky steals more bases which could be WHY he made the hall with his offensive numbers…
It certainly is why Rickey’s OBP is higher! But unfortunatly for the OBP = +RS crowd Rickey actually averaged fewer RS per season than Reyes does! It’s close, neck and neck but reyes is .3 up on him!
Point being and the reason I made this comparison was mostly about this notion that speed players have short career and can’t make the hall!
Henderson is a shining example that niether of those predjudices are actually true!
And while I’ll give you that Rickey never stole more than 100 Bases after age 24 and declined steadily after that, Reyes, speed is not about stealing bases it is about taking EXTRA bases that his BA gets him that is the key to what makes him the player he is!
Sure he steals a base, he may never steal 100 bases but then again he also won’t get caught 42 times in a season either the Way Ricky did when he stole his record breaking 130 bases!
They are BOTH leadoff hitters. Only Reyes is actually more a hitter where Ricky is the better WALKER…
And in the end we should be comparing Reyes to other leadoff hitters in the game.
I don’t really care if Reyes is better or not as good as Ricky was I am quite happy to wait until his career is over and we see the entirety of his work.
But this comparison does get rid of the notion that a player who was more about speed to be a success than Reyes not only played well into his 40′s but made the hall of fame which means Reyes could do!
Time will tell!
“I’ll give you the strike shortened season……” Um, thanks?
“I counted the rookie year for both.” That’s fine, but it doesn’t prove your case. Your case is based on games played first and foremost. Henderson played 89 games, but he didn’t have a 162 games to play from. Nor did Reyes. So counting games played for or against them is a mistake.
Rickey in his career never started more than 158 games in a season, That was his second year! His next most GP was 153, 152 and 150 everything else is under 140
Reyes started 161 Hhe has 3 other seasons of 160, 159 and 153.”
It still in no way proves Henderson was injury prone. It just means LaRussa rested him more to avoid injury.
“Counting DL stints is wrong headed if you ask me because not every hurt player who misses games actually GOES on the DL!”
Can you prove to me that Henderson was hurt on days he didn’t play? That’s just a ridiculous statement. Counting DL Stints is wrong because it proves your entire theory inaccurate. A player who is sore and needs a Sunday off is not “injury prone.” A player who is on the DL 7 times in 8 years, is.
“If you take out the strike and Rookie for Ricky he plays in about 77%”
I only took the strike out to show you even with that year he still proves more durable. The strike games happened.
If you exclude Rickey’s call up year he could play in 1,243 games. He played in 1,093. That’s 87%
“But you seem to miss the BIGGER points made here!
The general excuse for not giving Reyes a long term contract is that he is a speed player and speed players LOSE it after they get past their prime! Become useless!”
Rickey Henderson is an all-time great player. All-Time. There are thousands upon thousands of “speed players” who are not Rickey Henderson. Just like every power hitter is not Babe Ruth.
You’re using 1 all-time great who was one of the greatest to ever step foot in a batters box to justify one guy who is not an all-time great.
“Rickey was a speed player, He was even MORE a speed player than Reyes is! Rickey played until is mid forties!”
Again, Reyes 7 DL Stints through age 28. Rickey 8 DL stints through age 40. Big. Big difference as to why one guy could play to his 40′s.
Using Ricky as your blueprint for Reyes’ future success/health is an absolute mistake. Tim Raines was the closest thing to Rickey we’ve ever seen SINCE Rickey in terms of an older player maintaining his speed. Who else you got? Because I can name tons and tons of players who didn’t maintain their legs as well as those guys into their later years since 1980.
For the sake of accurate information, especially if we have younger readers that don’t really know about Henderson.
If you take Reyes’ first 8 years (exclude when he was called up) and you take Henderson’s first 8 years (exclude call up and strike)
You have
Player A: 140G, 629 PA, 526AB, 115R, 153H, 25 Doubs, 4Trips, 14HR, 55 RBI, 88SB, 19CS, 96 BB, 70K, 231 TB, .290 BA
Player B: 122G, 568 PA, 522AB, 86R, 152H, 26 Doubs, 11Trips, 9HR, 48RBI, 44SB, 11CS, 40BB, 59K, 230TB, .290 BA
You have Rickey playing in more games, scoring more runs, showing more power, stealing twice as many bases, and walking twice as much.
Not to mention he was top 10 in MVP 4 times, won 2 Silver Sluggers, and a Gold Glove during this time.
Thus proving there’s more to comparing players than just batting average. Henderson was the COMPLETE package.
Reyes is not Rickey Henderson, and to even compare the two is an insult to Rickey and to Jose to be honest.
You wanna compare somebody to Rickey through age 29 in their careers, Tim Raines is your guy.
By the way, I’m doing your comparison a FAVOR by excluding 1981.
You know how many games Henderson missed in 1981?
1.
493 PA
423 AB
89 R
135H
18 Doubes
7 Trips
6HR
35 RBI
56 SB
22 CS
64 BB
68 K
.319 AVG
Was his numbers in a strike shortened year with 109 games played by Oakland.
So if you add those in and take into account that was in a 109 game season, your numbers grow even MORE in Rickey’s favor.
No because it can also be said that if he played a full season he was just as likely to miss time than play based on his other seasonal trends.
So in order to prove your theory correct we need to make up pretend injuries for Henderson?
Come on Metsie.
For a guy who always demands “proof”, you are way off here.
Rickey 8 DL stints til he was 40.
Reyes 7 DL stints til he was 28.
It’s not even a comparison and you’re making yourself look desperate just by trying
He missed games dude WHY did he miss them?
Injury, Rest take your excuse but he never played more games in a season than Jose has!
You want to count DL stints which means RECORDED 15 Day roster moves!
But missing a game is missing a game REGARDLESS if they put you on the DL!
If you play one game in 5 over a two week period you might not get put on the DL list but your still NOT PLAYING 4 games out of 5 which is what happened to Ricky!
Rickey would take himself out of more games than one on the last day of the season because he had a batting title sewed up!
Oh and DESPERATE is trying to find number to cherry pick out to try and reverse a set of facts shown!
Yeah Strike shortened season, Got any more excuses dude?
How many 160 game season has Ricky had compared to Reyes?
Reyes might get listed on the DL more often but when he isn’t he plays more games than Ricky does!
How a shortened season due to a players strike or lockout can be called an excuse is beyond me. It’s not an excuse, it’s a valid reason why “player A” had less than 150 games played or so but I really think this comparison has been lost in a statistical fog. Anyone that has ever seen Ricky Henderson play knows offensively he was a far bigger threat then Reyes. Far bigger.
I give Reyes a leg up on Henderson in three ways.
I give Reyes a big leg up over Henderson defensively because Reyes (to me) defends his position better than Henderson defended his and then again because Reyes position is far more critical than LF.
I also give Reyes a big leg up in offense relative to position played, ie a LFer SHOULD provide more offense than a SS.
I also give Reyes a big leg up on the team aspect of the game as Rickey was one of the highest maintenance superstars in the game and Reyes one of the lowest. I also highly doubt that Reyes would be found playing cards in the clubhouse during a playoff game if he wasn’t on the field either but to compare their offensive impact to each other Henderson had a far, far bigger impact on the game than Reyes has so far.
This is like comparing Hank Aaron and Greg Luzinski.
or compering omar minaya with sandy alderson… right??
look metsie, this post is already filling up with comments from this douch8es.. i feel like i am at a geek convention talking about women..
one is a guy who is a big time douch0e, and if your post is not approved by him, he;ll say you suck or are uneducated. the other is a second guesser psychic dbag who brings nothing but long as-s replies everytime he feels corner after making a dumb post. pay no mind metsie, these saber goons are just being douch-es bags..
cool story, brah
alex: your response to this post (comment #1) is no different than mine except I used facts, you used opinion. Your opinion was valid when you said
” just saying compare him to any hall of famer,specially rickie, is a stretch.” “so comparing reyes with him makes no sense”
Nobody called you a name after that did they?
So why do you have to call agee a name when he says “This is like comparing Hank Aaron and Greg Luzinski.”
?
The fact is the evidence in this blog by Metsie who is desperate to make Reyes things he is not, is false. There’s no way around it. Unless we’re now holding a player strike against a player’s health, there’s no logical way to compare the 2 in terms of their health. None.
Rickey was a machine, 8 DL stints through 40 years old compared to 7 DL stints through 28 years old shouldn’t even be spoken about.
No big deal Jessep, everyone knows alex is just buffoons toothless pit bull here to further buffoons goal of stifling any opinion that he disagrees with, but cannot refute the facts of.
The next baseball related insight alex provides will be his first, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
look at that, one after the other… you 3 are very amusing you know that, is funny how jesseP can call me fool and uneducated but forgets he does that when i called him out on. agee is the worst and the other is the tail in the donkey so i won’t even bother with him.. you 3 make me sick, and i am sure i am not alone on this, if you have nothing to say on metsie’s article don’t say it at all. is his opinion, he’s being ooptimistic of reyes chances to be a HOF, nothing more than that, even i corrected him but with manners, why don’t go to your little buddy craig lener who keeps kissing sansy’s as0s on his article about how great sandy’s doing. jesseP is the biggest Ahole in this site, and you’re little wish of me being banned here might turn back on you as everyone is starting to see who you truly are..
u mad bro?
Joe D should take notice that everytime jesseP, donal and taggee are all together writing in the same article at around the same time it turns into a war zone instead of a blog about baseball, these 3 are the reason why many guys in here start insulting them back and stuff, because they instigate so many ppl here that they have no choice but to defend themselves..
I don’t feel me presenting FACTS and inaccuracies in a blog is instigating at all.
If any of what was said here was true, I’d say good job. But the entire blog is based on the fact that Henderson was “injury prone” and essentially assumes he missed 54 games in 1981 for reasons other than a strike.
Tell me I am wrong that if you take out BOTH Reyes’ and Henderson’s “call up year” and you take into account that Henderson missed ONE game in 1981 not 54, that the comparison is blown away.
It’s not instigating. Instigating is taking things that are not true and preaching about them. Or when somebody AGREES with you, you call them names simply because it’s who said it and not what they said.
metsie, i will stop this because i don’t want to fill our article with rants about this ahole… imo is a good post, if you don’t like it, simply go to AA or metsblog to provide your opinions.. f’ing a**hole..
Good Move dude!
I thank you…
We all agree. Alex should stop posting.
Everyone agrees you should stop posting more than him!
YOU are the main cause of 99% of the Vitriol posted on this site!
and if you were to get banned the site could be TRANSFORMED into a civil place to be!
you add nothing but CRAP, INSULTS, INSTIGATION and CHILDISH SNARK!
You are the LEAST PRODUCTIVE POSTER on this site!
haters gonna hate
Yes you do! And thats about ALL you do!
When people cannot refute the facts of someone else’s point of view they resort back to name calling, make up things to change the subject or make claims of instigating and run to the moderators.
We all saw this behavoir back in elementary school. Instead of sticking to the topic and having a normal adult discussion about the merits of each opinion (pro and con) without rancor, they revert back to their sandbox days and quite frankly this website is losing it’s relevance because the average normal fan with a well stated opinion, backed up by facts that support that point of view has to find a different website in order to have a grownup discussion about the Mets.
Tag if you guys want to stroke off to each other like your having a bar conversation to insult people in the bar then take it into the chat!
These comment sections should be all about BASEBALL and baseball facts or comment about facts presented not a private conversation of you Donal and jessup starting crap with posters as NO ONE cares about or wants to hear your opinion of me Alex or any other poster!
If your statement is about a person and not a baseball it doesn’t belong here….
Do YOU AGREE?
Have those discussions on Google talk or the Chat panel not the comment section!
I did make a baseball related comment. As usual the baseball related content was hijacked by childish name calling, baseless claims of instigating and a call for the moderator and a discussion of that ensued.
Stick the blame where it belongs, on the one who began the childish name calling.
“This is like comparing Hank Aaron and Greg Luzinski.”
Very insigtful!
yes he attacked you…Was it first?
Well we would have to go back about 3 months worth of posts to see WHO ACTUALLY started it all…
Not accusing you of being first but I am accusiong you of doing what you say should not be done!
I’M DOING IT RIGHT NOW!
Because it has to come to a head before anyone will be ready to STOP the practice!
Lets just make an entire thread that is nothing but comments about posters with NO BASEBALL at all!
Then maybe we will see how this site is going to look if the crap doesn’t stop!
Presenting facts that represent a difference of opinion to an adult is an opportunity to discuss and examine the issue. Presenting facts that fly in the face of a child’s opinion is reason to call people names, make baseless claims of anything they can come up with, try the old gotcha game with something you wrote about in the past, run to the moderators or really anything at all in order to avoid the discussion of the topic because the child cannot defend their opinion on it’s merits so it does so by employing the types of tactics one used in elementary school.
It’s all about group think here among certain individuals. If you don’t fully subscribe to each and everyone of their beliefs then instead of discussing them the idea is to shout others down with some sort of internet insults which has probably sent many posters looking elsewhere.
It’s fine to have different opinions and beliefs but if all you can do to defend them is call other people names or attempt to change the discussion then you ‘aint got ****.
Around here there are are a number of people who ‘aint got ****.
Ok tell us which baseball facts are included in this post?
“When people cannot refute the facts of someone else’s point of view they resort back to name calling, make up things to change the subject or make claims of instigating and run to the moderators.
We all saw this behavoir back in elementary school. Instead of sticking to the topic and having a normal adult discussion about the merits of each opinion (pro and con) without rancor, they revert back to their sandbox days and quite frankly this website is losing it’s relevance because the average normal fan with a well stated opinion, backed up by facts that support that point of view has to find a different website in order to have a grownup discussion about the Mets.
”
I see none!
So your guilty of what you said in that post aren’t you?
This thread of mine was a mere passing conversation piece but you know what I think it may serve an even GREATER purpose as the thread that calls the ducks a duck and becomes the BREAK POINT discussion of who is guilty of what they accuse others of doing!
So far I have not sen ONE FACT presented by you on the subject at hand!
Only comments on Posters!
And you of all people doing it makes me even MORE disappointed!
So far Jessup has been the only one to actually discuss the issue and post some baseball facts!
SO Jessup ata boy, don’t fall into the well of crap here!
From now on there should be no mentions of another poster unless it is to refer to something they gave as a baseball fact or to QUOTE them.
Any other commentary or OPINIONS of that poster should be immediatly DELETED and warnings sent!
Then maybe people will think twice about the crap they type in the comment box!
So I’m held to a higher standard because I haven’t called alex a single name until today while he has repeatedly hijacked the thread by calling everyone names in order to get the conversation OFF of baseball and onto childish name calling.
Sounds fair to me.
Just so you understand I couldn’t care less what names someone calls me or anyone else but I am fed up with the constant childish name calling in lieu of reasonable adult like discussion of the topics and the attempt to stifle any dissenting opinion by a few posters here by diverting the discussion AWAY from the opinions stated by posters and an AVOIDANCE of the facts that support those opinions.
When facts are presented that support a posters opinion, those are what should be attacked (or supported) not the poster himself.
That’s just childish.
“So I’m held to a higher standard”
YES because YOU are BETTER than that!
And if we get the BETTER people to stop it will expose and reduce the clutter to see the REAL IDIOTS that need to get sent to the Minors of Blog Posting!
Good one Metsie, the minors. I like that.
Doesn’t change the fact that until today I have not responded to any of Alex childish name calling by doing the same to him. I have ignored it for months and you (not that your under any obligation to do so) never said a single word about about it until I responded in kind.
Why is that?
Why did you take the opportunity to call me out on this issue while remaining silent for all these months while alex hijaks every baseball thread into a name calling contest multiple times a day?
I couldn’t give a rats *** about someone calling someone names but it precludes any kind of reasonable discussion about baseball which is the entire reason this website exists.
If you remain silent for months while one poster, or a group of them attempt to silence any dissenting opinion with juvenile name calling, while never commenting on the substance of the posters opinions or facts then you really should be silent when other posters respond in kind and turn the whole website into romper room.
There are no double standards here for one poster vs. another. There is also no reason people cannot disagree and simply state the reasons why without some seeking to make it personal. In my opinion it’s always made personal because some posters cannot state WHY they disagree, just that they do and it’s done in such a way to attempt to make offering your opinion (and backing it up) a waste of time. For instance every time Des offers an opinion someone brings up Jerry Manuel coaching a college baseball team. These comments are never in context with anything Des has written that day. Their just a waste of time that we’ve been subjected to thousands of times that has the effect of AVOIDING the topic rather than exploring it which seems to be the goal here for some and is completely at odds with what the website is all about.
Good one about the minors though.
Yeah does it change Reyes’ BA compared to Henderson?
Does it really change his RS?
Does it change the fact that a speed guy played until his mid forties?
NO!
All it changes is you think it means Ricky didn’t get hurt as much as Reyes when the truth is he never stayed out consecutive days and chose to have his missed gasmes spread out over the course of the season without being officially put on the DL!
And to add to that, Back then you had to pretty much have your arms and legs broken to even get PUT on the DL!
Now they will take you out for a headache!
Which further shows how flawed your comparison is.
yeah How?
Come on bring something!
Different eras have different standards. You prove it yourself.
It’s your point try and make it!
Instead of your I lied now prove it approach to debating!
what? Can you try English next time?
Did you or did you not illustrate that different eras had different standards?
Yeah it was my point and I already proved it!
You disagree or agree?
Which one cause no one can tell from the one liner drivel you been posting!
What?
Ahhhh. Calling on the moderator just like your idol, and this right after you (and only you) started calling peoples names, and you claim that other are instigating?
You are just too funny.
Well so much for interesting baseball discussion.
Oh Please Tag please come back to your old senses here…
You were not having an interesting discussion on baseball you were having a discussion about Alex and USERS!
Take it to the Chat because it’s really bringing down the level of this site when the three of you make a date to come here and slam people with ery little baseball involved!
You are the LAST person in the world to bring this up. But I find myself agreeing with your point. This sites comments threads are like a huge cluster____. And those names are always adding fuel and in many cases the start of it. I dont agree with alot of what you post here, but I just shake my head and say to each his own, I’m not going to assail you because we disagree.
Vinny B., this is what the d-bags like to do. They want this to be like their way or the highway. This used to be a site for everyone, but now it’s a saber site and any old school notions are mocked until they are completely wiped out or chased away. It’s time to find a new site where you dont get attacked by the writers like jessep and his cohorts donal or agee and their kind. Over half of all the comments now are just those three and they ruin every post. They instigate and brutalize anything they disagree with. Joe D doesn’t want to fix it, so there you go. They think they are high and mighty and they chased everyone good away from here. This site currently blows and they are reason why. You had a nice run Metsmerized.
I fully expect Vinny to remain silent about Maniac’s insults. He always remains quiet while Maniac, Bayonne, and alex pull their crap in the shoutbox.
The silence is deafening.
I don’t say anything because they have a right to be mad at you – You are snarky and sarcastic 100% of the time, and you always mock their opinions.
Do you expect them to sit back and just take it? What do you expect them to say? If your going to be nasty to people and mock their opinions, well, then they aren’t going to be nice back – That’s just how it works.
If you just debated their points without snark they wouldn’t insult you – Why don’t you give it a try for once?
And I’ve know Maniac and Bayonne for a long time now, and in the past I would disagree with them a lot, and I never got insulted. Why? Because I was never snarky or sarcastic, and never mocked their opinions, even though I disagreed with them.
Why can’t you do the same? Why can’t you just debate their points without snark? Why is that so hard to do?