Mets Are In “Exploratory Mode”

38 Comments + Add Comment

• NJstuckinTX November 24, 2011 at 9:22 am

  Nice write up Hojomojo. Kind of depressing. At least I have deep fried turkey to look forward to…
• Bayonne Mets Fan November 24, 2011 at 9:25 am

  I’ve heard “accumulation mode” now it’s “exploratory mode”?

  So in other words they are sitting back and watching what everybody else does before make a move huh? Nice way to be competitive
  • Met Maniac November 24, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Yesterday on MLB Network, they had Matt Capps on and he was asked about the Mets interest in him. He let out a chuckle and said I read the same thing. What does that tell you?
  • Metfan Lou November 24, 2011 at 10:35 am

    How come it took you 31 words to say this when it took the writer 8 paragraphs?
• Satish Ram November 24, 2011 at 9:40 am

  If only it wasn’t so impossible to be able to rebuild and compete at the same time.

  Oh, wait…
  • Met Maniac November 24, 2011 at 9:52 am

    It’s not impossible at all Satish. It’s impossible for these out of touch people running the front office. Look at the Braves for instance, they always contend and they always have a great farm. They’ve been that way for 20 years. We have the highest paid front office in the NL, and we are getting bottom of the barrel results. We have three GM’s and yet combined they aren’t half as good as the one GM in Philly, Atlanta, St. Louis (another team that does contends and builds), etc.
    • Metfan Lou November 24, 2011 at 10:44 am

      One of the things the Braves do is that they are very patient with the farm system and don’t give up on them unless they come to the big club and fail to meet their expected standards but only after giving them a fair chance. (i.,e. Francouer, Furcal and Klesko and Kelly Johnson for example), but they make mistakes too and the most glaring one is Adam Wainwright. They are also not hesitant to call them up and move them down for seasoning until they are sure a guy will stick.
      • NJstuckinTX November 24, 2011 at 11:11 am

        What’s your feeling on Fmart? Think he should be moved or given the chance to play the season in platoon with Bay or Duda in the OF?
        • Metsie November 24, 2011 at 11:42 am

          Here is my feeling on F-Mart.

          Either Package him with other guys we no longer want to try (the Evans and Pridie’s (too late there) to get something you do want….

          OR

          Instead of signing some 2 Mil per year scrub to replace Pagan or pay Pagan 5 Mil trade Pagan for something and let F-Mart play CF.

          If the assumption is we are not going to win next year no matter what we do then I would rather lose with F-Mart making league minimum and a chance to prove himself enough to keep or to return something in trade than to try some FA castoff who will sign a cheap 1-2 Mil deal only to have to resign him to much more if he does ok!

          Guys like F-Mart, Evans, Pridie (too late now), Turner, Misch, Parnell, Nickeas, Guy we do not expect will be in our future plans or have no position to play (Pending Wright’s status add Murphy here), Should be traded off for someone we do think can be in those plans. There were 7 Players there (6 now) that we could have traded someone like pelfrey plus any three of those names to get one decent prospect or MLB player (CF, C, RP, SP)

          It could even make sense to trade a Valdespin with some of those to get something.

          If we want to fix the team, the way to do it is to make those trades to turn the wholesale lot of guys we have no use for and get one player we DO have a use for.

          Not by signing 1-2 Mil reclamation projects who become FA the year after you signed them meaning they are no longer bargains!

          If we want to save money then the way to do it is to get some VALUE out of the players we have. I would play F-Mart hoping he shows enough to get his value back, Gets enough back we solved a problem, Doesn’t get enough back he is at least worth more in trade!

          Not this lets just cut payroll and sign crap with the money we saved that is going on here!

          The two examples used to show the SMART WAY to build (Phillies and Braves) all did it by making these multiplayer failed prospects for one good one in return.
          And thats what Sandy should be doing!

          If he can’t trade them then use them as the cheap crap filler until they become tradable or you have someone better to replace them!

          I just don’t see tat happening here!
          • Joe Diaz November 24, 2011 at 2:09 pm

            The problem with what you’re saying Metsie is F-Mart has arthritic knees.They’ve already stopped playing him in CF because of it and have made him a corner outfielder.Forget him as far as ever being an everyday outfieder.His ceiling is now a 4th OF at best and as far as packaging guys like Valdespin,Pelfrey,Pagan etc nobody is knocking down our door for any of them.Yeah maybe you can make a lateral move and pawn them off for the same type of players they are,former highly touted prospects that haven’t reached their full potential.Just like when we traded for Francouer.Unfortunately the rest of MLB doesn’t think as highly of our farm system as we do.Some of the guys that had breakout seasons like Valdespin,Lagares,Familia,Gorski,etc… will have to have another season like last year in order for the rest of the league to take notice of our farm that was ranked in the bottom 3rd of MLB going into last year.Our farm system ws ranked 22nd of 30 MLB teams on draft day last year.With quite a few of our prospects having big seasons last year plus the players we added from last years draft,I think or farm will be ranked much much higher going into 2012.Like I said those who had breakout seasons really need to do it again to set us up for some trades either midseason or next offseason.I’m sure we can make some trades now but the returns may not be as good as it would be had our prospects been coming off a few good seasons in the minors instead of just this past year.

            Also I have to think that there is something more than meets the eye going on behind closed doors with this freakin team and it’s driving me nuts.Last year we heard numerous times the 2012 payroll will be around 120 million,then during the summer it was 100-110 million.Now I’m hearing it may not even crack 100 million,somewhere in the 95 million neighborhood.Guys like Mack Ade from Macks Mets seem to be painting a bleek picture as far as finances.People can say what they want but I find it hard to believe that Alderson would take this job and not want to compete as some have suggested.Why would a man that’s as well respected as anyone in the sport leave his cake joob with MLB with very little pressure to take over a franchise in NY in disarray,maybe the most difficult GM job in all of sports as Steve Phillips once said.Why would he take this job,ruin his legacy as a champion executive if he has no intentions on competing.I just don’t buy it.Something none of us are privy to is going on behind the scenes with this franchise.I never wish bad on anybody but I honestly wished the whole Madoff,Picard situation would’ve destroyed the Wilpons and forced them to sell.God forgive me for saying that but these pieces of shit have ruined the team I have loved over 40 years.It’s disguisting what this franchise has become in the greatest city in the world and we all have to suffer and it has caused civil wars between Met fans.I’m so f***** disgusted.
            • Metsie November 24, 2011 at 8:18 pm

              Joe I don’t care if he is an everyday outfielder Remember if next year is already given up on he can’t really hurt us!
              MIGHT help us or himself by showing he can play somewhere…In either case instead of just wasting a year on guys who are not long term options for us might as well use the time to weed out Kids that may or may not be long term options.
              If they suck they didn’t kill anything that wasn’t already dead and if they don’t suck then thats one less guy you have to go get either via FA or Draft!

              All in All a better option than hiring some guy @ 2Mil per due to what F-Mart gets paid!
              • Petey Pete November 25, 2011 at 8:53 am

                Metsie you are right about the Mets trying out some young guys next year, I mean what have we got to lose at this point? When Captain Kirk comes back from rehab on his shoulder, probably in May, I would love to see him get called up to patrol CF in the second half. Lagares, if he keeps coming on as fast as he did last year, may push his way into the OF picture too. In the IF of course you have Havens, who if healthy, is a stone’s throw away from Citi. And by years end, we may see any one of Mejia, Familia, or Harvey on the mound for the Mets. But to hang your hat on FMart as the guy they should play is simply unrealistic. FMart is done. Forget about him. It’s time to move on to another prospect. I know it’s disappointing, but these things happen. His knees simply will never allow him to be a regular baseball player, anywhere, big leagues or minor leagues. Did you notice how many times he was on and off the DL last year at AAA? I lost count after the fourth time. The guys knees are shot, period, at 22-years-old. And you want the Mets to try him in CF? He will be out of baseball in two years.
                • Metsie November 25, 2011 at 12:09 pm

                  Pete don’t mistake what I’m saying. I don’t really care about F-Mart at all. He is just an example name used to get accross the main point. The name could be Evans or could have been Pridie before Oak signed him.

                  If we have decided already that next season is a lost year, then instead of spending the money we will on a Hairston Harris or Boyer, Lets just use that year as a training simulation for Kids, where their lack of success can’t hurt anything, MIGHT (no guarantee) help them get used to what MLB pitching is like, Might even show they can hit MLB Pitching
                  and at the same time save us about .5 to 1.5 Mil on the Payroll each that could be used to pay down the debt or to buy a BETTER GRADE of FA than we plan on now that could be a part of the long term solution.

                  Lets look at the F-Mart usage for a minute though.
                  Say we use him as the CF (with no expectations he is going to be any good.) Kirk starts off in the MiLs to get his mechanics back as the last part of his Rehab. If he does well it is far easier to demote F-Mart to bring Kirk up than it is to make room if we resigned a hairston or harris to play there to start the season.

                  My thinking is while Payroll flexibility is fine it’s pointless if it not also accompanied by roster flexibility.

                  Using kids saves MORE money and also gives you that roster flex you need. And using kids also has the outside chance that one of these guys like F-Mart might just regain and show some of that potential we thought they had but have not showed.

                  I agree F-Mart will never meet the hype that was thrust on him. But truth is he doesn’t have to do that to be a better option than Hairston! All he has to do is as much as Hairston would do becuase he is half the price!

                  But this only works if you truly believe that next season is a complete loss already.

                  I don’t think it has to be just that it is likely because we are playing this offseason as if it is!

                  I would have been perfectly happy starting Pridie as our CF, letting Pagan go via Trade or FA and saved close to 4.5 Mil I could use for a decent RP or to pay down the debt!
                  We look at Reyes going as saving 15-20 Mil. But the truth is all we are actually reducing the payroll from current is about 5 Mil which is what Reyes got paid last year!

                  You save almost as much by replacing Pagan with Pridie and you could use that money towards keeping a Reyes/Wright or getting a GOOD RP!
        • Metfan Lou November 24, 2011 at 11:49 am

          Do you think FMart is too injury prone and they just don’t think he is major leaguer, maybe too streaky at the plate. I am thinking they may have signed Lowen to a minor league deal to compensate for FMart. You trhink?
          • NJstuckinTX November 24, 2011 at 12:02 pm

            Like Metsie said, I’d package him with a couple of players for a SP. Maybe Danks? Even a lesser proven SP. I don’t think he can handle the rigors of being an everyday MLB player.
          • Metsie November 24, 2011 at 8:20 pm

            Have no clue why they are signing anyone if they have no money.
            As for F-Marts knees the kid is still young and if his knees are going to be an issue better to use him as the throwaway CF than some 1-2 Mil guy!
          • Joe Diaz November 24, 2011 at 10:57 pm

            I think it’s both Metfan Lou. He’s been bitten by the injury bug and overhyped because he tears it up in grapefruit league play.He was totally overmatched the few times he was called up.He couldn’t get around on a good fastball.He’s got a sweet looking swing but he just didnt impress me.I know he’s young but if you come with the hype he did you can’t look that overmatched by fastballs.I didn’t expect him to his offspeed pitches at his age but fastballs are fastballs.You have to be able to hit the heat.
      • Metsie November 24, 2011 at 11:20 am

        The other thing about the Braves Lou is when was the last time the Braves had a firesale?

        Sure they will trade a once good chip they think they can replace or improve upon but they hold onto the guys they find that are good.

        The only team ever to have a firesale and succeed was the Marlins.
        And the reason it worked was it was the same guys in charge ,aking the deals who bought them the WS win in the first place!
        Bonilla
        Alou
        White
        Sheffield
        Brown
        Fernandez
        Leiter
        Hernandez

        All to complement thier home growns like Castillo and Renteria!

        And then traded those guys away forguys like Piazza Ziele and Looper plus a plethora of minor kids they then turned around and traded to other teams to get what they needed.

        The Braves do those minor player improvment deals all the time.
        What do we do?
        We send guys like Evans and Pridie to the Minors and let them become free Agents instead of turning them into a player we DO want!

        Our FO is more concerned with who they are getting rid of than they are with who we might get!
    • METS62FAN November 25, 2011 at 10:32 am

      MANIAC, N.B. ONLY METS RAN FROM ’91-’05 WITHOUT ANYONE PLANTING CROPS ON THE FARM. THAT’S A LOT OF DESOLATION INSTEAD OF FERTILIZING & CULTIVATING; IN THE WORDS OF THE BIBLE; “YE REAP WHAT YOU SEW!” SEPARATING SEED FROM CHAFFE IS ONLY THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE RESPONSIBLE FARMERS LIKE ATLANTA, ST LOUIS & PHILLIES. WEEDS SUPPLY NEITHER SEED NOR CHAFFE ONLY SHALLOW DEPTH. OF COURSE STL, ATL, PHL SEEM TO HAVE AN ENDLESS SUPPLY OF PROSPECTS HAVING RARELY MISSED A PLANTING SEASON. IN ’05 OMAR ASSUMED A FARM SYSTEM WHERE ONLY ONE NOTABLE PROSPECT BORE NOTICE BY ANYONE, LASTINGS MILLEDGE, NEED I SAY MORE? WREN(ATL) IS LIKELY STILL GROOMING SCHURHOLTZ’ PLANTINGS(SIGNINGS) AMARRO(PHL) LIKEWISE TOWARDS HIS PREDECESSOR’S SELECTIONS

      AFTER WRIGHT & REYES’ PROMOTIONS & KAZMIR’S SACRIFICE UPON THE ALTER OF JEFF’S IMPATIENCE; THE CUPBOARD WAS ESSENTIALLY BARREN.

      ONLY THE METS SPEND NEARLY 5 YRS DRAFTING THE EASIEST TO SIGN AMATEUR PITCHERS AMASING EXCESS MEDIOCRE ARMS(FOR USE IN FUTURE BARTERING) THEN HIRE A SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE C.O.O. AS A PITCHING GURU TO EVALUATE & CULL OUT THE SUPERFLUOUS IN HIS ESTIMATION (KAZMIR, BELL, et al) LEAVING LITTLE IN THE AFTERMATH.

      IS THERE ANY WONDER WHY WE NEVER GET SIMPLE SOLUTIONS TO STOPPING THE 5Y INJURY EPIDEMIC?
• Metfan Lou November 24, 2011 at 10:38 am

  In 2012 we will be the Houston Astros of 2011. They had a garage sale with Hunter Pence and we’ll do the same thing with David Wright.
• Metsie November 24, 2011 at 10:52 am

  When he said Exploratory mode what he meant was him and DePo are busy planning a trip to the South Pole to see what the weather is going to be like in Hell the next time the Mets win a WS with them in charge!

  It is quite obvious the only PLAN in affect here is they PLAN to look and sound like they are looking at Free Agents and improving the team while they allow all the decent free agents sign elsewhere so they can claim what was left and signed by them for peabuts was all there was available!

  Where oh Where is all this deep statistical analysis we have heard so much about?
  Wasn’t the time to do exploration during the season? Wasn’t the spreadsheet being populated with a ton of names that would be cheap and effective so they could hit the ground running once Free Agency started? What were they doing during the season aside from kvetching about the Payroll and trading off the best players we had on the Roster?

  Would appear have been spent looking for Apartments and leaking tidbits to the media about how little Reyes was worth!

  They will not spend more than 2-3 Mil on any free agent player they sign this year!
  The plan is NOT to rebuild it is to NOT SPEND!

  And maybe it’s just me but wasn’t fixing the Bull Pen last year’s focus?
  If these guys are so great at their craft why are we doing it again 1 year later?
  You have to ask these things!
  • Metfan Lou November 24, 2011 at 11:06 am

    They have a plan an d it goes like this:
    1. Hope a few guys from the farm system catch lightning.
    2. Wait till the end of the signings and pick up guys for 1 mil or less that if you took the scouting reports the Vegas odds makers with give them a 10-20% chance of coming back.
    3. If all else fails use Isringhausen as the closer.
    4. Go to spring training hoping you can sort it all out.
    5. And here is the big one Try To Fool The Fans !
    • Metsie November 24, 2011 at 11:27 am

      It sure looks that way Lou!

      Funny the Fire Sale is supposed to happen AFTER the house has burned down, not CAUSE the house to crumble to cinders!

      I see no plan just a bunch of bean counters cutting costs without any consideration to what it does for their bottom line!

      Saving 12 Mil on Reyes (which when you consider his current salary is about all they are really saving by not signing) is fine provided your spending it on something else that makes you better. Better enough to win the same number of games.

      But what these guys are doing is selling off an expensive well performing stock to go and get 10 risky penny stocks who all will amount to more wasted money than Reyes would missing one season to injury!
      Because at least Reyes would lure the season ticket sales before he got hurt!
• SirPall November 24, 2011 at 11:26 am

  Loved the “Try to fool the fans” comment I think we will rename Fred “Try to Fool The Fans” Wilpon !!
  • Metfan Lou November 24, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Well thank you. Some days I fire on all cylinders and some days I am like Big Pelf on the mound. I get befuddled, confused, frustrated, dejected, exasperated, depressed, lonely and cry for my momma and then I look up and Momma Werthen comes to console me and hug me and leaves me all by my lonesome just to get my a.. kicked again. Life’s a you know what sometimes.
    • Bad Bad Leroy Brown November 24, 2011 at 11:39 pm

      Do you by any chance LICK your hands after every typed word like Pelf does after every pitch???
      • Metfan Lou November 25, 2011 at 11:45 am

        As a matter of fact I do but only after I dip my finers in the Jim Beam. How else would I get through a Mets game. Oh by the way the MLB shop is offering 20% off today only through the web site. I ordered two Mets caps for the 2012 season. I ordered black so they don’t show the blood.
• Pete November 24, 2011 at 12:21 pm

  The Mets are in exploratory mode right now. Seems to me they are exploring how much BS the fan base will tolerate. Hey Sandy, if you didn’t want the GM job, all you had to do was tell Bud Selig “No.”
• Sach November 24, 2011 at 4:35 pm

  I can’t understand why the Mets can’t draft and develop at least some of their own credible to good support relief pitchers like other teams do. It should be one of the easier pieces to develop.The Mets aren’t concerned enough about bullpen prospects just SP prospects. Which is why we have just Bobby Parnell who is not a fireman but an arsonist.I don’t believe in the theory that all pitchers in the minors are SP to get more reps and to develop their secondary pitches and eventually they’ll find their niche. I believe that a determination on a pitcher should be made fairly early on in the minors before a pitcher reaches High A ball- either SP or reliever and then that pitcher get as many reps at High A, AA and AAA in his projected or possible role in the bigs. Craig Kimbrel of the Braves, David Robertson of the Yanks. Kenley Jensen of the Dodgers and Greg Holland of the Royals all had at least 2 or 3 seasons in the bullpen in the minors before they were called up to the bigs. So if I was Depo and Wogan, I would leave both Leathersich and Mazzoni in the bullpen and also look to shift and try Tapia, Goeddel and Montero in the bullpen next season. Having a solid and deep bullpen is one of the more underrated aspects of having a good, winning team. And I want to see some of these guys in the Met bullpen in the future not the D J Carrascos and Tim Byrdaks of the world.
  • RickeyBobby November 24, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    I couldn’t agree more!! Lolol Parnell arsonist !!! I’d like them to develop more qualityguys and sign or trade for couple ASAP. I’d much rather have an awesome bullpen then starters I think bullpens win so many games..eh our pen is horrible now hope they make a few good moves
  • Metsie November 24, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    Well Sach it shouldn’t work like that….

    It makes zero sense to draft a relief pitcher and develop him!

    Better to go for Starting pitching first, if he can’t do that THEN make him a reliever!
    The draft should only ever be used for potential Starters!
    If you drafting for roles your going to fail!
  • Petey Pete November 25, 2011 at 9:10 am

    You need to be careful Sach, about moving young, developing pitchers to the bullpen in the minors. The minors is a classroom where these guys learn to work on stuff. Not only that, they are building arm strength, stamina, endurance. Good mechanics have to be cemented into their sub-conscious before they can ever get to the majors. This process is expedited by pitching more innings. That is why you want your best pitchers to be starting in the minors whenever possible, they can always be moved out to the pen later. I’m sure even the Byrdaks and DJ Carrasco’s of the world were starters in the minors. Take Goeddel, who you mentioned for example, the guy has been having trouble adjusting to pitching with a professional workload, it’s a lot more demanding than college was. He was on the DL, the last two seasons because of arm fatigue and shoulder problems. He needs to build up arm strength, even if he someday does pitch out of the pen. All the guys you named are so young, it would be a mistake not to start them, for the short-term. But your reasoning is sound. And that’s why when a guy like Robert Carson comes along, with a power-arm who is simply pitching miserably as a starter, or a Brad Holt, you then move a guy like that to the pen and see if it gives him a new lease.
    • Metsie November 25, 2011 at 12:17 pm

      Good point Pete…

      You don’t draft or develop kids to do the least you try to get the MOST out of them. And that means starting pitcher first, If that fails or he shows he does not have the stuff to go long enough (either because he tires or his stuff just isn’t there to fool batters the 3rd time around, only THEN do you say well he can’t be a good starter but he might be a good RP to salvage the pick.

      If you limit the ceiling of return a player can give you from the get go you will leave something off the table you might have had if you went and tried to get the most the player was capable of!

      You only make the guy a RP after you have seen that he is not capable of being a SP.
• larman November 24, 2011 at 9:34 pm

  What is wrong with this picture. I mean the mets are just letting all these good players go again, so that they can sign a player who just stinks. I love the mets but i could run this team better. I feel lkie we are always getting cheated by our so called owners, please just do me and the mets fans a favor, please sell so that we can have real owners who really care about this organization as a whole, and give us mets fans hope for alot of years to come and stop being in the shadows of the yankees. we should have resigned bobby valentine back cus he was the last manager that got us in the playoffs and the world series. Willie did good and again with the lack of support of the mets force willie out. I need hope for this orgaization to show me that they do care, cus the players that were on the market, they just let them go. maybe the players need to understand that they don’t need to play just for the money since they are all overpaid anyway, cus no salary cap is in place, but play for heart and what baseball stands for the youth of the future. So please wilpons do what’s right and let go of the mets so that they can be winners.
• 86mets November 25, 2011 at 10:44 am

  I have a feeling they will still be in “Exploratory Mode” on March 31st 2012. Wait for the garbage to sink to the bottom of the free agent tank and then scarpe the bottom of the barrel for the next DJ “Fiasco” Carrasco is how I would interpret the term “exploratory mode”. Way to run a franchise. Now that Free Agents won’t cost you draft picks there’s no reason not to at least look at players you might not have previously due to losing picks. Oh, wait, I forgot the Wilpons have turned the Mets into the East Coast Padres with no money to spend.
• Mike November 25, 2011 at 3:09 pm

  The Mets won’t make any moves until all the good ballplayers have signed with other teams. Then they’ll scrape the bottom of the barrel with whatever is left, and that means saying goodbye to any playing in Oct.2012.
  • larman November 25, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    i agree with mike, like i said early in this post is likely what the mets will do is nothing. it hurts when you are a true mets fan.
• theonlymaskman November 26, 2011 at 11:23 am

  Exploratory? The only thing Alderson is exploring is what’s for dinner tonight!