Free Agency Begins Today – Type A’s, Type B’s and Type Mets

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• alex68 November 3, 2011 at 10:36 am

  Free Agency Begins Today – Type A’s, Type B’s and Type Mets”

  LMAO!!!!!! BEST TITLE EVER!!!! lol.. nice shot at the moneyballers!!
  in all seriousness, WOW, are those the players list we get to chose from?? i scrolled up and down and i found nothing, and i mean nothing worth even taking.. god almighty help us.
  btw joe, don’t forget to add kelvim escobar to that list since you mention chris young as well.. thanks
  • Joe D November 3, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Escobar hasnt pitched in years, Young could be ready to pitch again in late May.
    • METS62FAN November 4, 2011 at 10:36 am

      JOE, INCLUDING PELFR, PAULINO & PAGAN IN YOUR ’12 ALLOCATION IS MORE DISENGENUOUS THAN I’VE COME TO EXPECT FROM U. AS I SEE IT, I BELIEVE MOST MAY NOT BE RETAINED LEAVING OUR 2012 GUARANTEES @ $71M:
      SANTANA(24M)
      BAY(16M)
      WRIGHT(15M)
      DICKEY(4.25M)
      BYRDAK(1.5M)
      CARASCO(1.2M)
      MIN REQ FOR REMAIN
      25 ACTIVE ROSTER(8.5M*)

      LEAVING BETWEEN $28M & 38M TO REMAIN WITHIN 100-110M TARGET.

      * NEW CBA TO REESTABLISH MLB MIN OFF OF LAST YR’S 417K GUESSTEMTED TO BE SET @ 450K.

      AS SUCH JOE, I BELIEVE SANDY WILL LEAVE HIMSELF OMEWHERE BETWEEN 10-15M UNCOMMITTED TO BEHIN THE SEASON AS THAT CONSTITURES 10-15%

      AS I’VE ASSERTED ALL ALONG THERE IS STILL PLENTY OFWILPON “CAP” SPACE TO RETAIN REYES WITH WHAT SHOULD BE A COMPETITIVE OFFER. OF 5Y/120M OR 22M/SEASON AS THE ABOVE + 22M = A TOTAL ’12 PAYROLL OF APPROX $ 92M!
      • Metsie November 4, 2011 at 11:25 am

        Well 62 the point is they aren’t really in the budget yet (Pelf and Pagan) so your right but consider this.

        Crawford got 14 Mil last year (plus bonus’) My guess is that goes up to about 19.5 base this year.

        So lets say Reyes gets the same deal. 8-18 Mil left to sign with.
        (Sandy said recently he would go to 115 Mil if he signed Reyes.)

        Lets for argument sake say Reyes gets 3 mil more per year than Carl, you have 5-15 Mil at 100-110 and 20 Mil at 115 mil.

        More than enough to get the two Pen Arms they want plus even keep Capuano if they are so inclined to replace the Pelfrey purge!

        Santana is ours for the next two years with a club option. the next two years he is at 21.6 Mil.

        If he does come back and pitch effectively, considering all those kids in the MiLs ready to come into the rotation Santana is the next likely TRADE we make for a big star salary cut and I would not have any real problem with that!

        It won’t happen till next year the earliest and not at all if he sucks!

        That means we would be back under 100 Mil in less than a year and a half!
        AT precisely the time those Kids will all be in AAA and ready to enter the rotation.
        With 20+ Mil left to spend on a HEALTHY ACE to mentor them!

        So Signing Reyes does not break the budget, even the LOW budget Sandy has set for himself!

        And that precisely the point here!
        We have already seen the Reyes to Tejada DP combo!
        Wright is an annual All Star at 3rd. Ike if he plays a full season has showed he could be a big bopper and good fielder at 1st. INFIELD SET!

        OF has Duda already there another big bat. Murphy I think will find his way there at some point again. Work or not his Bat is too valuable not to find places to play!
        We have Flores, Neuenwuis, and one or two other options to play OF and if Bay actually does show the fence fix worked then paying Pagan 5 Mil isn’t all that awful a move!

        If Sandy had showed me he was going to use the money he is going to save by letting Reyes walk I would listen but he has no plans it either goes to reyes or in Wilpon’s poacket!

        I would rather see it on the field than in the bank because if it is on the field at least attendance might improve enough to solve the CAUSE of whatever money issues this team needs to have!
        • METS62FAN November 5, 2011 at 12:06 pm

          METSIE, MY DEAR, DEAR FRIEND, I’VE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT U EITHER NEED A NEW CALCULATOR OR NEW RESEARCG SITES, UNDER TYHE ASSUMPTION OF THE LATTER I RECOMMEND U VISIT: http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/new-york-mets.html
          WHERE U WILL DISCOVER TYHE ABJECT TOTAL ERROR OF YOUR STATEMENT;
          “Santana is ours for the next two years with a club option. the next two years he is at 21.6 Mil.”
          HOW U ARRIVED AT THAT REDICULOUSLY LOW FIGURE IS BEYOND MY ABILITY TO IMAGINE SINCE EACH OF THOSE CONTRACTED SEASONS EXCEED THE EUPHOMISTIC 21.5M U STTE SO EMPHATICALLY WRONG. HERE’S THE ACTUAL DATA Re JOHAN SANTANA’S REMAINING GUARANTEED CONTRACT:
          2012(AGE 33( 24M+ ACHEVED INCENTIVES
          2013(AGE 34) 25.5M+ INCENTIVES
          2014(AGE 35) 5.5M BUYOUT OF 25M CLUB OPTION
          THIS TALLIES TO A WHOPPING MINIMUM OF $55M TO AN AGED SANTANA BEYOND HIS PRIME; YOUR NUMBER IS AS ACCURATE AS UECKER’S. “A LITTLE BIT OUTSIDE” CALL.
          • Metsie November 5, 2011 at 12:38 pm

            62 take the 140 mil number and subtract all the contracts that HAVE EXPIRED this year!

            Thats where the number comes from!

            But better yet as I always think it is better to use the other side’s source to make the point and prove it…

            This link was included in the one you posted under 2011-2016 obligations.

            https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tfJWfaPG4VXbDyBscIZf1MQ&output=html

            What is the number that is totaled at the end of the list for 2012?
            $66.830
            Add 20 Mil for Reyes as a ballpark number.
            86.830 Salary!

            Minus that from 110 Mil
            23 Mil left to fill holes!

            So your link proves my numbers precicly!

            Let Pelf and pagan go!
            Replace Pelf with Santana and use one of the MiL kids for CF!

            If you can’t build a PEN for 23 Mil you have no business being a GM for an MLB team!

            My numbers were PROVED by your own evidence!
            • METS62FAN November 7, 2011 at 9:49 am

              METSIE, U MISSED THE POINT OF MY QUESTIONING THIS STARMENT U MADE…”Santana is ours for the next two years with a club option. the next two years he is at 21.6 Mil.”

              AS MY ABACUS CLEARLY SHOWS SANTANA’S REMAINING COST TO BE $55,000,000 IF HIS 2014 OPTION IS BOUGHT OUT FOR 5.5M RATER THAN EXERCISED @ 25M VLEARLY HIS BREAKDOWN IS
              2012, AGE 33, 24,000,000
              2013, AGE 34, 25,500,000
              2014, AGE 35, EITHER 25,000,000 CLUB OPTION OR 5,500,000 BUYOUT

              MY QUESTIONS REGARDING THE 140M NUMBER HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AIMED @ THE DELIBERATE OBFISCATION PRACTICED BY TYHE PRESS AS HEY CITE 140M AS IF IT WAS THE END # FOR THE ’11 SEASON & ATTEMPT TO HORRIFY THEIR READERS ALARMING THEM TO A NEW 2012 PAYROLL TARGET OF 100-110M WHEN IN FACT THE HONEST ERUDITE SPORTS REPORT WOULD INDICATE A 2011 SEASON CLOSING PAYROLL TO ROSTERED PLAYERS OF ONLY 114M; A BABY STEP ABOVE THE ’12 TARGET.

              METSIE, I’M ALL TOO WELL AWARE OF THE ABILITY TO RETAIN REYES, WRIGHT,BAY,SANTANA, DICKEY,CARRASCO,BYRDAK aka OUR FULL ROSTER OF 2012 GUARANTEES IF REYES RETURNS; AND STILL SATISFY OWNERSHIP’S DEMAND FOR A 110M CEILING IN PAYROLL.

              TOO OFTEN THESE INSTIGATPORS IN THE PRESS CHOOSE TO SEW DISSATISFACTION WITH REYES/WRIGHT CITING PAYROLL PERCENTAGES WHILE IGNORING THE GORILLA ASTRIDE THE ELEPHANT IN THE NYM VAULT. SANTANA’S 55M GUATRANTEE FOR UNKNOWN, UNPREDICTABLE EFFECTIVENESS IF ACTIVE AT ALL!
              • Metsie November 7, 2011 at 11:13 am

                Ah i see what the issue is…
                Your forgetting part of that 24 and 25.5 includes Bonus money he gets ON TOP of his base salary.

                His base may very well go up slightly in 2012 and 2013 I can’t say as I see no figures for that.
                Just the lump of Salary and pro rated bonus combined!

                I agree the Santana money could be wasted money…
                No one can say it is or isn’t, some will say enough of it was wasted already to call it a failed signing but I tend to wait until the contract is over and see how many years you got what you should have from it as Players do rebound after having injury problems.

                If Santana comes back and pitches like an Ace then it would be very difficult to say that money was wasted wouldn’t it?

                You could say the 2009, 2011 money was but not the rest if that is the case.

                I have no issues with anyone saying the Santana contract is a drain. But the solution is not to get rid of the contracts that ARE productive it is to find a way to shed the contract that is not!

                If we signed Reyes now then in two years the problem solves itself! Bad contract gone, Reyes still here and you can decide then to re-invest that money or keep it in the bank until something you need and can help you win comes along.
                • METS62FAN November 8, 2011 at 8:35 am

                  METSIE, WHILE I HAVE JUST DISCOVERED AN ERROR IN MY CALCULATIONS OF WHAT IS DUE WHEN TO SANTANA; HIS POTENTIAL BONUS MONEY IS INCONSEQUENTIAL AS I PERCEIVE 0% CHANCE FOR HIS EARNING ANY OF IT IN 2012 OR 2013. FOR THE RECORD THOSE EXACT BONUSES ARE:
                  award bonuses: $0.5M-$1.5M for Cy Young (varies based on number won), $0.25M each for MVP or World Series MVP, $0.1M each for All Star selection, LCS MVP, post-season MVP, post-season All Star, Gold Glove, Silver Slugger THOUGH A “MIRACLE” ARGUEMENT COULD BE MADE THAT THE 100K FOR AN ALLSTAR SELECTION & SILVER SLUGGER ARE PLAUSABLE IF NOT IMPROBABLE(IMO)

                  AND THE ERROR IN MY CALCULATIONS WAS NOT ACCOUNTING FOR THE 5M DEFERRED 7 YRS FROM EACH GUARANTEED CONTRACT YR MAKING HIS PAYCHECKS = TO 19M IN 2012 2WITH 5M DEFERRED TO 2019 W/1.25% INTEREST ALONG WITH 20.5M TO BE PAID IN 2013 WITH 5M+ 1.25% INTEREST DUE IN 2020 7 YRS POST EARNING YR.
                  ALL IN ALL A VERY TYPICAL WILPON PKG OF UNACHIEVABLE BOBUSES & PAYMENTS DUE LONG AFTER PLAYER IS SERVICABLE AS, SINCE BONILLA, IT APPEARS THEY’VE NEVER MET A PLAYER WORTH WHAT THEY’VE PROMISED WHEN THEY PROMISED IT.
                  AS REPORTEDLY THE MANY DEFERRED PAYMENT ACCOUNTS THE WILPONS HAVE HELD FOR VARIOUS PLAYERS ALL BEARUING MODEST INTEREST DUE WERE ALL PLACED IN THE MADOFF CONTROLLED PORTFOLIO AS SUCH THE NESTEGG IS EMPTY & ALL WILL BE OUT OF THEIR CURRENT POCKETS FOR PLAYERS LONG GONE LIKE BONILLA & GLAVINE
                  • Metsie November 8, 2011 at 10:21 am

                    62 I can’t quibble with your prediction about Santana not earning his keep for the remainder.
                    Just pointing out the only way to fix that is to play him hope he does well and can then trade him…

                    But I can quibble with this.

                    “IT APPEARS THEY’VE NEVER MET A PLAYER WORTH WHAT THEY’VE PROMISED WHEN THEY PROMISED IT”

                    I would say Beltran was…
                    As I said someplace else he missed one season in total games and would have mised more if he had not ignored them and didn’t have the operation when he did!
                    If he had been diagnosed and treated immediatly in 2009 he would not have missed the 2010 season at all!

                    I feel Beltran earned EVERY PENNY he got!
                    I feel Reyes would too!
                    he’s very similar to another famous HOF leadoff hitter (in fact better in many respects) who managed to play well into his Mid Forties!

                    He had Hammy issues as well!
• Metsie November 3, 2011 at 10:48 am

  You know what I find odd?
  We will not resign Reyes because he gets hurt but played MOST of the season but we will spend his money on guys who WERE HURT and missed Most of the season in FA!

  If Injury is an excuse for avoiding re-signing a player why are we going out of our way to sign only guys who were hurt?
  • alex68 November 3, 2011 at 10:53 am

    metsie, they won’t be sign long term, they get release or send down if they suck (probability they will is very high), and then, after having yet another losing season as a GM, sandy will go ahead and do the same thing again next year..
    • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 10:59 am

      Just pointing out that Injury really isn’t the reason some want to let Reyes go they are just using at a smokescreen to hide their TRUE intentions….DON’T SPEND!

      Injury is fine if it’s cheap!
      And thats where I show them:
      Young 500K per game played
      Crawford 118K per game played!

      Who was REALLY the best BANG for the BUCK?
      The cheapo or the guy folks thought was paid too much?
      • alex68 November 3, 2011 at 11:03 am

        ahhh, very nice. is funny how people here assasinated omar minaya for the kelvim escobar deal. yet, noone here seems to talk about chris young and his 4 starts at 500K per. yet they even want him back. amazing
        • jessep November 3, 2011 at 11:06 am

          Omar Minaya is alive isn’t he?

          Did people really get on Minaya for the Escobar deal? I don’t remember that, and if they did I bet alex was in the middle of it all right?
          • jessep November 3, 2011 at 11:11 am

            Oh wait, you were probably banned back then?

            http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/new-details-emerge-on-kelvim-escobar-deal.html

            http://metsmerizedonline.com/2009/12/mets-ink-kelvim-escobar-to-one-year-deal.html

            Sure doesn’t seem like anybody was “bashing” Omar for the signing as you say.
            • alex68 November 3, 2011 at 11:19 am

              ahhhh, nice shot at me, i was banned here, is good you let everyone know that, just as i let everyone know i was in europe developing a new product for our company and was out for a whole year, now, to escopbar i am talking after escobar got hurt you f’in8g douc-he…
          • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 1:21 pm

            And no they got on him for the Delgado deal who had 4 years of playing, Only had two bad injury affected years only ONE of which was a total waste, Got us 104 Hrs during that time and 339 RBI

            But it was an AWFUL signing because he got hurt and missed some time!

            Not ALL of it just SOME of it!

            Yet Young is a GOOD signing who missed pretty much ALL of the one season he signed for!

            Please quantify that reasoning PLEASE!
      • jessep November 3, 2011 at 11:03 am

        You’re using the data you want just to make your point seem right.

        If crawford continues to play at the level he did in 2011, then his contract goes down as one of the worst in the sports entire history. When he’s done nobody will even remember the name of the guy the Mets signed to a small money 1 year deal.

        Crawford’s contract STOPS the franchise from being able to make other moves. It’s the reason why several believe they will NOT go after Reyes.

        Chris Young’s injury lead to Dillon Gee being on the Mets roster by the way.

        There is a big difference between signing a pitcher coming off arm surgery to a 1 year deal that doesn’t handcuff the team in the future than signing a guy who relies on his speed, who has had leg and hamstring problems to a 6-7 year deal for 100+million.

        If you can’t understand that, then I’m sorry but it’s basic logic.
        • alex68 November 3, 2011 at 11:05 am

          we could’ve save those 2 million on something better than young and use gee from the get go, i mean 3 gm’s and all they have to show for is capuano for an entire offseason??? really?? lmao, embarrasing !
          • jessep November 3, 2011 at 11:21 am

            You realize Capuano was practically the same risk as Young right? Cap could have easily gotten hurt.

            By the way, if you watched Hot Stove Live last night you would have heard john Hart (he knows some things about being a GM) talk about the “Red Cross List” and how this is a list where GM’s take chances, and if they fail, as long as they didn’t invest a lot it’s no big deal but if its a success then it could make a huge difference in a franchise.

            Signing Chris Young hurt nobody, in fact when he WAS on the roster he was the Mets best starter. You know he was.

            Secondly, during the Hot Stove season tell me who was the 1 main SP a lot of fans wanted? Jon Garland. Don’t deny it either.

            Who would you have rather signed? Young+Capuano or Jon Garland? I’ll gladly take Capuano thank you.
            • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 11:26 am

              Yeah Cap didn’t get hurt until maybe the 6th inning of every game he pitched but one!

              Then the scoreboard cried out in pain!
        • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 11:23 am

          AH so signing Young to a 500K per game contract was worth it because we had Dillon Gee replace him?

          Did it ever occur to you to START GEE and use the money towards resigning Reyes like I said to a year ago and you POO POOed it because you thought Gee was never going to be successful in the MLB?

          Remember Gee was my fifth starter before the season started!
          I would have saved the 500K per game and had 2 Mil to put towards Reyes’ 5-6 mil Raise this year!

          And don’t tell me Crawford was not worth his money compared to Young if you continue to try your just going to look rediculous!

          You can try to compare him to OTHER players but Sandy didn’t go sign those guys which begs the question…WHY?

          Your method gets you an injury risk every year the name will change but in the end the results is a player getting paid for NOTHING!

          Precisely what you blamed Omar of doing to ruin this franchise!

          And now your going to sign some other walking wounded to play Catcher (Like Paulino) Who missed more time this season Thole or Paulino?

          Lets keep throwing CRAP on the mound to see what stuick is that your ENLIGHTENED baseball approach?

          It’s ok to waste money just as long as you do it a little bit each year as opposed to a little bit in one year of a long term contract!

          I have to say I REALLY REALLY hope Slashy does everything you want him to do!

          Cause when it all turns to crap and he gets fired your credibility will be so low we won’t have to take your NEXT suggestion of successful team building seriously at all!

          It will be dismissed as fast as you dismiss Alex and Bayopnne because you won’t be able to defend any of the moves you suggest with your history!

          So Sandy PLEASE dear god PLEASE listen to Jessup and do everything he wants!

          So we can get away and show the folly that is inherent in his thinking!
          • jessep November 3, 2011 at 11:36 am

            “Look Sandy took a gamble and he lost. Not a reason to knock him. He didn’t spend much on him so there really is not a lot to knock him on.

            Young pretty much brought this on himself by going for Rehab instead of Surgery when the injury happened last year.

            It sure didn’t accelerate his return and it didn’t work.

            Santana has the same thing but went for the Surgery. He will likely pitch before the season is done.

            And if Young goes for the Surgery this time, we will get those good 24 and more NEXT year where things might be a bit better if Sandy does his job well.

            Sad that the guy who was pitching the best was not healthy.
            But lets face it we weren’t leading the division with him so what great loss is it?

            Let Gee pitch and see if he is as good as his limited appearances would suggest!
            Cause if he is and Santana comes back good, Young gets surgery and comes back next season we might finally have the dearth of Pitching to get rid of Pelfrey without worry and bring up Harvey and Holt (if the have continued success) which will give us a pretty good staff.

            A lot has to fall into place for that to happen but it is a possibility!”

            Metsie who said that?
            • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 11:49 am

              Hey YOUR the poster boy for Injury Adverse…Not me!

              Your too afraid to sign reyes because he might miss a few weeks each year yet are ready to sign another guy who is just as likley to miss the ENTIRE YEAR merely because you THINK he is cheaper but when looked at from a per game played perspective got paid 4 times as much!

              Lets review…

              Your method 5 guys, 5 years 2-4 mil per 10-20 Mil total commitment 5 wasted years due to injury! NO seasons of contribution
              Reyes 5 Years 20 mil 100 Mil total, One wasted season (across 5 years) 4 years of contribution! same 20 Mil of Waste but you got 4 season of contribution in the end!

              Buying something every year that doesn’t work is NOT SMARTER than buying one guy who will only cost you one season of WASTE as opposed to FIVE!

              It would be fine if the money you were saving went towards KEEPING the good player but thats not what you are Sandy seem to be doing with this money you say your saving and getting BANG (as in EXPLOSION OF SUCK) for the buck!

              Paying less for NOTHING is not more back for the buck than paying more for SOMETHING! Especially when the something is as good as Reyes!
          • Joe Diaz November 4, 2011 at 1:02 am

            Need math assistance? He was paid 1.1 Million not 2 Million which your math suggests,500k per for 4 starts.
  • jessep November 3, 2011 at 10:57 am

    So you’re saying you don’t understand the difference between signing an injury prone player to a 1 year/small $ contract compared to signing an injury prone player to a long-term big money contract?
    • alex68 November 3, 2011 at 11:01 am

      yes we understand it.. is called moneyball
      • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 11:07 am

        No what you meant to say we understand it’s ok to waste 4 times the money in ONE year and it’s ok to sign an injury risk EVERY YEAR but it’s not ok to sign a guy who will play another 5 years and might miss ONE SEASONS worth of games through that entire length of time!
        While leading the team in RS and BA!
      • Donal November 3, 2011 at 11:33 am

        Ya, that Bartolo Colon deal the Yankees made was totally Moneyball.
      • NJstuckinTX November 3, 2011 at 12:05 pm

        How did signing previously injured players to 1 year incentive laden deals become moneyball? This has happened year after year after year. Well before Beane was drafted by the Mets… You can’t start slamming ‘moneyball’ or whatever it is that you associate moneyball to be (other than it’s actual meaning) for a practice that has been in place for just about ever.

        Now, I do understand the ire you rightfully should have if this was the only list that the Mets were choosing players from. I think we both know that it won’t be the case. You won’t see a Pujols on that list, but it won’t only be the listed group of dregs in this post.
    • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 11:05 am

      No I don’t see the BANG FOR THE BUCK you guys keep talking about!

      Chris Young got paid 500K per game!
      Carl Crawford 118K per game!

      Who gave you more BANG for the BUCK?
      • Donal November 3, 2011 at 11:06 am

        Is Chris young going to be getting $250K per start (we all know how you have a problem with facts)from the Mets next year? No?

        Nifty.
        • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 11:08 am

          No some other coming back from injury slob will get it instead!

          What did you save?

          NOTHING all you did was spread out the waste over 5 players when you could have spent it on ONE and only lost ONE season of performance over 5 years as opposed to 5 season in 5 years with your WALKING WOUNDED conga line!
          • Donal November 3, 2011 at 11:32 am

            So, a full season of crap that anchors your whole team down is worse than a few games of crap or injury shortened season that can be easily replaced.
            • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 11:40 am

              Yeah that only works if you think Crawford was crap!

              Too bad for you he wasn’t!
              Young was!

              BANG FOR THE BUCK remember!
              How many Wins did Boston have with Crawford in the lineup?
              How many did the METs have with Young? ONE?
              2 Mil one win!
              • Donal November 3, 2011 at 11:53 am

                Crawford was indeed crap. He produced well bellow what the average starting LF did.

                And the few games Young was in, he pitched really well.

                “How many Wins did Boston have with Crawford in the lineup?”

                None. Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nil.

                “How many did the METs have with Young? ONE?”

                4 starts at a 1.88 ERA? He put the Mets in a good position to win all of them

                “2 Mil one win!”

                1.1 mil for 4 excellent starts.
                • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 12:06 pm

                  Really! I wasn’t aware that Boston lost 130 Games this year!

                  Wow! With facts like yours who needs LIES?
                  • Donal November 3, 2011 at 12:48 pm

                    I wasn’t aware that Carl Crawford didn’t suck. Yes, The Red Sox won games that he played in, but they didn’t win any of them because he was there.
                  • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 1:10 pm

                    Yeah lots of things you aren’t aware of…It’s a brain issue!

                    So we got you to admit one statement you made was a lie lets work on the latest doozy that Crawford didn’t contribute…

                    So 65 RS and 56 RBI, 11 HRs 7 Triples and 29 Doubles contributed only to their losses none of their wins?
                    Did he go O FOR in every win they had?

                    Of do you admit you got caught telling a lie again and make up a new one that I will swat as easily as a fly and prove your facts are all FANTASY!

                    You should just stop trying to prove other people’s points because your not helping those folks despite your avid CHEERLEADER attempts at making them look good!

                    You just show how WRONG HEADED your side thinks and what the intelligence level of those who agree with them is!

                    Too bad they don’t limit Internet postings to an minimum IQ requirement!
                    Would get rid of a lot of the Bull and stupidity posters like you try to play on the discussions!
                  • Donal November 3, 2011 at 1:18 pm

                    Crawford performed bellow the average for a Left Fielder and he played in a very hitter friendly park. Yes, that is crap for a guy being paid like an MVP.

                    They probably would have made the playoffs if they had an average LF.

                    Seriously, you are trying to sell Carl Crawford as a good deal. That should tell you all you need to know about your point.
                  • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 1:37 pm

                    Still making up statements without any proof are you?
                    I thought you would have learned by now!

                    Even if he was AVERAGE to other LFers with a few more years to go…

                    Young was BELOW AVERAGE because most Starters started more than 4 games!

                    MOST starters had more than 4 wins!
                    Most starters did better than Young in EVERY CATEGORY except WASTED SIGNINGS!

                    Stick that into your fantasy mill and GRIND on it!

                    And when Crawford has a good year the next three we will see how AWFUL his signing was…
                    You know your favorite thing to hide behind? SAMPLE SIZE?

                    Lets see at the end of the contract JUST HOW AWFUL that signing was shall we?

                    Youngs contract is done!
                    No more data bto collect!

                    EPIC FAIL!
                    Crawford has a few more years before you can say that!

                    But you will be long gone from embarassment by then!
                  • Donal November 3, 2011 at 2:40 pm

                    You’re defending Carl Crawford. That is all.
                  • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 7:22 pm

                    He agrees that Crawford deal isn’t up yet and Young’s is and produced nothing!

                    See you in a few years before you know for sure how good a deal that was for the Sox!
                  • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 7:23 pm

                    And we are defending a guy who contributed to his team compared to a guy who did NOT!
                  • Donal November 4, 2011 at 10:03 am

                    No, you’re not defending a guy who contributed to his team. You’re defending Carl Crawford.
                  • Metsie November 4, 2011 at 10:59 am

                    Contributed more than Young did!
                  • Donal November 4, 2011 at 11:05 am

                    By default. And he was paid a hell of a lot more, occupied a roster spot and will be there another 6 years.
                  • Metsie November 4, 2011 at 11:33 am

                    KEY PHRASE….

                    Will be there another 6 years which is what his contract will be judged on!

                    Beltran had a bad year his first year of the contract too!

                    But his contract was worth EVERY PENNY even when you account for his missed year (across two season) into the production!

                    Crawford will STILL contribute Young is not his contract is done and over with!

                    You paid him for 4 games!
                  • Donal November 4, 2011 at 11:52 am

                    Beltran had a bad year for Beltran. And it was still better thn what Crawford did alst year.

                    Plus, Beltran was younger, more talented and played a premium position.

                    Crawford is older, has fewer skills and plays a less valuable position.

                    Oh, and Crawford was worse in 2011 than Jason Bay.

                    Now proceed to tell me how great Jason Bay is.
                  • Metsie November 4, 2011 at 12:13 pm

                    Do you suck your thumb while you type this crap or have a staff of comedy writers type it for you?
                  • Donal November 4, 2011 at 12:21 pm

                    I have facts. You should try them some time.
                  • Metsie November 4, 2011 at 12:33 pm

                    No you have drivel you pretend are facts because you too young to know better than to try and fool intelligent people who see right through your childish lies!
                  • Donal November 4, 2011 at 12:36 pm

                    So, Beltran wasn’t younger, more skilled, and playing a position more valuable than Crawford?

                    Jason Bay didn’t have a better year than Crawford?
                • alex68 November 3, 2011 at 12:06 pm

                  chris young had 2 quality starts on the 2011 season, he failed to reached the 6th inning in 1 start and failed to reached the 5th on another start.
                  • Donal November 3, 2011 at 5:07 pm

                    So, you agree with Metsie that the Crawford deal worked out for the Red Sox?
    • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 11:15 am

      You mean you don’t understand the difference between signing 5 injury proned players in 5 years to one GOOD player who might get injured one year but play and contribute to the remaining 4?

      Would you sign a guy who would get hurt EVERY YEAR?
      Cause thats what your doing by picking off the hospital release list!
  • METS62FAN November 8, 2011 at 11:09 am

    METSIE YOUR RESPONSE JUST PRIOR TO THIS WAS UNREPLY-ABLE SO I’LL REPLY HERE. I HAte when u quibble. almost as much as when u misinterpret me; however. upon reflection WHAT I TYPED…
    “IT APPEARS THEY’VE NEVER MET A PLAYER WORTH WHAT THEY’VE PROMISED WHEN THEY PROMISED IT”

    IS NOT WHAT I MEANT TO SAY WHICH WAS THAT THE WILPONS RARELY PAY A PLAYER WORTHY OF THE CONTRACT, WHAT HE’S ACTUALLY WORTH TODAY PAYING HIM TODAY INSTEAD OF TOMORROW AS THEY TYPICALY DEFER TO DO EVEN WITH BELTRAN BECAUSE AS U INSPECT THE DEAL THEY INKED HIM TO, WHILE HE WAS FAIRLY RECOMPENSED THERRE’S STILL AN ISSUE TO THE ACTUAL TIMING HERE’S THE VEBAGE AS RECORDED BY COTS…
    7 years/$119M (2005-11)
    signed by NY Mets as a free agent 1/05
    $11M signing bonus
    $5M at signing 1/05, $2M 6/15/05, $2M 1/15/06, $2M 1/15/07
    05:$10M, 06:$12M, 07:$12M, 08:$18.5M, 09:$18.5M, 10:$18.5M, 11:$18.5M
    full no-trade clause

    $22M ($5.5M annually from 2008-11 salaries) deferred at 1.72% compounded interest
    club agreed to not offer arbitration after 2011 season

    NOTE THE PARTICULARLY LOW SCALE OVER THE FIRST 3 YRS(WHEN HE’S MOST LIKELY TO EARN IT & MORE) WHILE AFTER 3, I’M GUESSING THEY WERE CONSIDERING OFFLOADING HIM, IF HEALTHY, AS HIS SALARY JUMPED CONSIDERABLY ALSO NOTE WELL HOW THEY EVEN REDUCED THOSE FIRST YEARS BY $5M ANNUALLY IN DEFERMENTS; HOWEVER DESTINCTLY MISSING IS ANY ALLUSION TO A DEFERRED TO DATE. ONCE MORE THIS ADDITIONAL 22M IS LIKELY STILL ON OUR BOOKS & THOUGH MONEY WAS SUPPOSEDLY PLACED IN INTEREST BEARUING ESCROW ACCOUNTS FROM WHICH IT WOULD BE REMOVED TO ALLEVIATE THE DEBT DUE THE PLAYER UPON DUE DATE BEING REACHED. AS ALL OF THESE SOCALLED INTEREST BEARING ESCROW ACCOUNTS WERE PART OF THE MADOFF PORTFOLIO, IT APPEARS AS IF THE ALLOCATIONS ARE LOST WHILE WE ARE CONTRACTUALLY LIBEL TO MAKE GOOD OUT OF CURRENT SPENDING ALLOCATION. WOE IS FRED! LOL. THEY CERTAINLY WOULD’VE BEEN MUCH BETTER OFF PAYING THE FULL ANOUNT WHEN IT WAS EARNED INSTEAD OF LATER AS THEY TYPICALLY ARRAINGED.

    BECAUSE MADOFF SUPPOSEDLY PROMISED VERY HIGH INTEREST RATES THE INTERST COMMITTED TO BY THE METS WOULD HAVE ASSURED THEIR EARNING ADDITUIONAL PROFIT ON THE PKLAYER’S MONEY THEY HELD IN ABEYANCE. PETTY BEHAVIOR BY TYHE FUNERAL DIRECTOR’S SON(FRED) I WOULDN’T BE SUPRISED IF BERNIE HADN’T CUCKHOLD FRED DURING THOSE JOINT FAMILY VAcations.lmao!
• Donal November 3, 2011 at 11:00 am

  Well, you figure Niese and Gee will be making the league minimum, so there is your starting 5. $77 million and change.

  Ike, Tejada, and Thole all make league minimum, s0 with Wright and Reyes, there is our infield. We’ll call that $98.5 million if they give Reyes $20 million per year, like you said they are willing to do in another post, Joe.

  Herera, Beato, Parnell, Stinson also league minimum. A little under $3 million? Not sure. $101 million and change.

  Figure Murphy, Duda and Turner also at league minimum and that gives us just under $103 million.

  So, assuming the list Joe gave us is what we have opening day, that gives us a little under $9 million to find 2 relievers and 2 bench players. If we don’t keep Pelf and Pagan, that gives us nearly $20 million to find 6 players.

  And that gets easier if we go with using Martinez to platoon with Bay and use Evans off the bench.

  $19 million on 2 relievers, 1 starter and CF. The trick is signing guys without long term deals.
  • Joe D November 3, 2011 at 11:04 am

    I hate spending $11MM on Pelf + Pagan. I hope we trade them and use that money on better players.
    • Metsie November 3, 2011 at 11:29 am

      I say let them go, Pay Reyes with that money and then use what is left (which would be about 4-6 mil more than if we kept Pagan and Pelf) and use that to get better players elsewhere!

      You can get some decent pen help at 2Mil per or at least one at 4 Mil per!
  • XtreemIcon November 3, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    I’d take a run at Andruw Jones to handcuff Duda as a late-inning defensive replacement and a couple of spot starts against the Kershaw’s and Hamels’s of the world. He can still play a good corner OF spot and he crushes lefties.
    • Donal November 3, 2011 at 5:10 pm

      I thought about that. If we get the Andruw Jones of last year and not the few years prior, I would do that.
• Des November 3, 2011 at 11:01 am

  A Rod Barajas and Henry Blanco catching combo makes sense to me. With Pelfrey on the mound last year, opposing runners stole 29 bases in 31 attempts. The blame belongs to Pelf and Josh Thole who together set up an expressway. Runners didn’t do that with Barajas and Blanco.
• Joe D November 3, 2011 at 11:06 am

  Would any of you take a shot on Dontrelle? Is there any redeeming value left in him? Can he be fixed?
  • Donal November 3, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Minor league deal ,maybe. It’s one thing if a guy is just recovering from an injury. Willis has a few other variables you need to account for.
    • Joe D November 3, 2011 at 11:13 am

      The last time I seen a player go from great to horrid in the blink of an eye like Dontrelle, was right after the Mets got Carlos Baerga.
      • Donal November 3, 2011 at 11:30 am

        Alomar had a pretty good dive. Willis I think was a victim of his crazy delivery. If you see when he started spiraling, it was at about 25, when his body also filled out. That screwed up his delivery, which took away his fastball, and it all just kept snowballing.
  • alex68 November 3, 2011 at 11:16 am

    well, he’s not that good, he’s been hurt, he will be cheap, maybe minor league deal with incentives.. most likely we’d be getting those type deals all offseason, so he prob will be look at by the sabers in the front office
  • MetsMan86 November 3, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    Upside is he’d probably be the best hitting pitcher on the team. The down side is the pitching part of his game, unless he completely reinvents his delivery.
• nathan November 3, 2011 at 2:12 pm

  What if Alderson is not trying to destroy this team but is actually trying to build a better team than we have had in twenty years. Some people on here really hate the fans talking about budgets and money in general but what if this is a real problem. What I mean is what if during the Minaya years the Wilpons took on negative cash flows to try and build a perenial winner hopeing that it would comeout flush after a couple years. Well after two implosions and one sunk season they could have been financial hosed. This opens the door to Sandy. What if the plan is to try and get the Wilpons back on financial track and build a more complete team that has depth and talent. Then as the performance starts to show the fans will come back and they can begin to increase expenditures while maintaining financial responsibility. What this could mean is that unlike the Mets teams of the past twenty years we could when this is said and done be able to sign our best players and replace injuries with minor league talent that is ready. This would keep things impulse trades to a minimumm and could really be benificial to us as fans. It might take a few years to make this a reality but it could lead us to the land of the constant contention instead of the ebbs and flows we are all so use to.
  • Joe Diaz November 4, 2011 at 1:15 am

    Finally a man of reason!
• MetStar November 3, 2011 at 9:00 pm

  Just want to let you know Bay is not scheduled to make 18.13 mil…his official salary for 2012 is 16 mil.

  His contract pays him 61 million over the first 4 years with a 3mil buy out for the 5th season. this gives him 64 mil guaranteed. He was paid year 1: $6.5million salary + $8.5 million up front bonus. that’s 15 mil for 2010. year 2 (2011) Bay was paid 16 million: Year 3 + Year 4 Bay is due to make 16 mil each year. Giving him 61 million and the buy out is another 3mil giving him 64. However if Bay reaches 500 at bats in both 2012 and 2013 his 5th year option triggers in for another 17 mil.

  The mets better hope that Bay can pull a Beltran in the first half of 2012, much like Beltran did in 2011 and trade him while picking up say only 4 million of his contract. and letting the other team pay 12 mil.