7
2011
Mets 360: Mets Fans Prefer To Keep Ike Davis Over David Wright
An article by Craig Lerner
Surprisingly, Ike Davis was the overwhelming choice. What makes this all the more revealing is that Davis missed three-quarters of the season and there is still uncertainty about the bone bruise on his ankle that has kept him from playing in games or even running full throttle.
The poll results also illustrates a surprising decline in support for David Wright who was once the darling of the fanbase and still is the face of the franchise.
Wright has seen his production sink to a career low in his most recent three-year average which has been attributed to injuries, pressure and Citi Field.
You can read Brian’s full article at Mets 360.
About the Author: Craig Lerner
I'm a data analyst and researcher for a leading news agency who loves life and is hooked on the Mets. I love following the Amateur Draft and have a particular fondness for the Mets Minor Leagues who I follow each day. Give me a cold beer, a summer day, and a Mets game, and I'm good to go.
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That definitely is surprising! I can imagine people not having all the support of Wright they use to have, but having more confidence in a player that may not be the guy we saw before his injury? Shocking.
It’s not all that shocking to me…
NY has always been a what have you done for me lately town!
Is it really that or is it they understand that Ike is very good, both offensively and Defensively, is cheap and under control for quite some time. I’m thinking people are voting with their heads, not their hearts. Plus Ike has better HR power, and chicks dig the long ball.
You hit the nail on the head.
David is under control for 1-2 more years, while we’ve got Ike for a while longer. Ike has flashed the 30-35 HR power, even at Citi Field, which David has failed to do lately.
I think it has NOTHING to do with Ike being “cheap”.
My God the things baseball fans are being programmed to throw into their everyday lexicon is sad to see. Awful.
It has EVERYTHING to do with fans seeing him as he is as a player, NOT HIS GOD DAMNED salary. Not at this point.
It has everything to do with fans recognizing him for what he is – a CLUTCH player who comes through in big spots. I don’t care if it’s a small sample I’ve been saying it for awhile now. Ike Davis is gonna capitalize on his rep as a big spot hitter soon enough. The kid carries a certain swagger/arrogance when he comes to the plate in important situations. And that’s the complete opposite of the “deer in headlights” look Wright brings to the table in big spots.
And it’s good to see fans notice that.
It has NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS CONTRACT now. That is entirely different subject.
And that’s the complete opposite of the “deer in headlights” look Wright brings to the table in big spots”
LMAO!!! the CORE salutes you bayonne!!!
How is that a bad thing? How is a youthful guy beginning his career and showing signs of being a star not worth more than a guy who, while still putting up big numbers, is declining, coming off injuries and going to be looking for a big payday in the next year or 2? That alone says at this point, says that Ike has more value going forward than Wright. That’s not saying Wright sucks (although the apple Cores would argue that he does), but rather that Ike has MORE value going forward, hence why the above participants in this poll chose to make Ike the player they’d least like to see traded.
You need to UN-PROGRAM your brain to think that finances are not a part of the overall picture. And you need to not wear blinders and look at the whole picture rather than going off the deep end when the word salary or cheap or finances come into play. The combination of what Ike is vs what Wright is would be why they’d rather trade Wright than Ike.
I DO look at the big picture and I’m aware of everything that you’re saying. Of course his salary isn’t a bad thing but that’s not why he’s a good player now. That’s not why he’s good for getting big hits in big spots.
He will supplant Wright as the face of the franchise. Being a ‘face’ isn’t Reyes’ deal so i don’t mean that as a slight to him at all.
But Ike is going to be the new face of the franchise because of his ability on the field. His growing rep for clutch hitting, excellent defense, etc. NOT his contract.
Ike is the least player to get traded because of the type of player he is not what he makes. If you want to talk about that that’s another topic for another time.
OK, based on what you’ve laid out, I can agree with it. I still think it’s more about other factors than just that supposed killer instinct, but it certainly is part of it. So to that, I say understood and good post.
Being a very good ballplayer that I think is gonna be capable of 30-45 HRs, 280-300 AVG, 100 RBI guy is one of the factors that I didn’t specify but didn’t think i had to point it out.
Umm it has a lot to do with money. Contracts are kind of an important thing in the real world, buddy.
Well buddy if you’re gonna look at the headline of this post and answer it’s about money in regards to David Wright & Ike Davis than that’s your downfall.
Ike will be the next face because of his ability on the field and that’s what this post is about. I’ll talk to you about his contract when there’s a story about Ike’s money.
I know about contracts, the real world, and all that buddy. But’s that’s not what this is about.
I’m not saying it’s completely about that but it’s a good percentage. You can’t just ignore contracts…Ike Davis right now is good and he’s cheap. That makes him really, really valuable to the Mets. It’s just a fact of life.
In those post – it’s NO percentage.
Let’s talk about play on the field first – which is what this post is about.
And the fact of life is Ike is really valuable to the Mets because of being able to be a young kid who hits 30 HRs and delivers big hits, not because he’s cheap. The only reason he’s cheap is because he’s new so don’t worry about his bank account right now. You’ll have plenty of time to talk about that as he gets older.
Ike is right now is good and he plays like a winner. The fact that he doesn’t get paid a lot because it’s his 2nd year is the LEAST thing ANYBODY should concern themselves with right now.
You’re telling me that a GM knowing they have a player locked up for a certain amount of money and years offers nothing to his value? If you really think that, you are quite naive, sir. Every major league GM is looking for talent first and then contract status right after and if you don’t believe that, I don’t know what to tell you. Baseball is not only a game but a business as well. Unless you’re the Yankees, you can’t go willy nilly free spending all of the time.
No Sh*t Sh*rlock!
Read the post title again and stick to it.
relax, you’re making a mountain out of a molehill so stop thinking you’re educating someone assuming they don’t know these things.
I’m just talking about the post.
Between you making a mountain out of a molehill with this post and accusing me of lying on the other one go take a break, clear your head and then come back.
Wow…way to be a dick about this. How about you stop speaking down to people like a little child and you conduct yourself like a grown man.
Contract status is quite important to me and to all organizations and GMs and you’re completely wrong if you think otherwise.
You seem to have a different interpretation of the poll. My interpretation was that if I were a General Manager, which player would be more valuable to my team (as much as I like David Wright, it’s got to be Ike Davis because of his offensive potential, his defense and the fact he’s under team control for 4 more years). Your interpretation seems to be in a vacuum, which player does Bayonne Mets Fan like better based on some guidelines BMF created in his own mind.
I don’t have to list things that are stacked in the back of my mind and take one nanno second to remember. And i put Ike’s financial status in that category…OKAY!!!!?????
Can you understand that now? Are we done talking about the LEAST IMPORTANT characteristic of Ike Davis’ value as a Met?
Least important to you. But very important in the whole scheme of things if you understand how situations affect other situations.
For instance it was the COMBINATION of great play and low salary at SS and 3B that allowed us to add so much salary at other positions.
What if we were paying 25 M a year for A-Rod at SS and another 15 M a year for someone else at 3B. Could we have added Pedro, Beltran, Delgado, Wagner, Alou, Santana, K-Rod, and Bay?
It’s actually the COMBINATION of terrific play AND a smaller salary by a first, second or third year player that ALLOWS you to add big salary and a huge upgrade else where.
That’s one of the big reasons a well developed prospect flow is so important to a contender.
Then ask the writer to re-edit the Headline to read:
Mets 360: Mets Fans Prefer To Keep Ike Davis Over David Wright Now Talk About A-Rod, Pedro, Beltran, Delgado, Wagner, Alou, Santana, K-Rod, and Bay
Just read the God Damned article, respond to it as is and spare us the usual Parade of 100 names you BS us with every single day.
You’d bring up Alou, K-Rod Shchoenweiss and Cora if the friggin post was about the Weather at Citi Field.
complete nutcase.
You’ve really got some problems, bud. You don’t have to take everything so literally. It’s the internet…stop being so serious. You’re just a poster on a message board. Get the **** over yourself.
Typical buffoon,
Never addresses what is written, if anything he addresses something that wasn’t written or more often just complains that someone wrote something at all.
Never backs his opinion with anything resembling a fact, frequently resorts to childish name calling and other juvenile tactics.
I don’t read here that often but I’ve come to realize that’s what BMF is known best for.
Yes, Buffoon fancies himself as the gatekeeper here at MMO. He has charged himself with attempting to squash all dissenting opinions and run everyone with any dissenting opinions off the MMO chatboard.
All who are neutral or like Wright, Alderson or sabermetrics are ripe for his never ending opinions, backed only by his opinions, insults and other childish primate behavoir.
What? No mention of Schoenweiss, Alou, or Cora?
Sounds about right, T Agee. What a buffoon.
Jeez, what are you yelling about?
Contract is very important. I’d say it’s a 60/40 split between talent and contract status. You can live in your fantasy world if you want, but you’d be a terrible GM if you were in charge.
Good when a writer writes a story about the importance of contract vs. performance we can discuss it.
I was gonna say luckily this innocent post spares us that conversation but i see like any other post…. contract, Schoenweiss, Alou and t agee’s usual cast of characters found it’s way here.
NY Mets fans have become as bad as NY Yankees fans with the “what have you done for me lately” syndrome.
By your own admission Wright was clutch early in his career, so now fans like yourself are getting behind a guy that has not completely ONE FULL YEAR, over a guy that is already established.
Ike, while I think and believe his future is bright, has not proven a thing yet…..
I know I know Murphy’s still on 3rd, don’t show you the numbers, you know what you saw……
In Wright’s case it’s not “what have you done for me lately” it’s more like “when have you EVER done anything in a big spot”
Sure Wright was an exciting 2-strike hitter when he came up but when it came to high pressure performance in pennant races he came up smaller than small starting during the 2006 playoffs and getting progressively worse during each ensuing pennant drive until completely becoming a guy who couldn’t get a hit in ANY type of important spots in any games during 2009. And I said right here on this board in 2009 that I believed the previous years of failing in big spots in pennant races and subsequent talk about it finally got to him and he hasn’t been the same since.
And you’re right. Don’t even bother showing me numbers because I don’t need numbers to tell me about all the gigantic GAG jobs this guy did that I saw over the last few years
Not one big hit ever in his career? Never?
I’ve read enough, I know the facts, you are a waste of time.
“Don’t show me the FACTS, I know what I know, my hatred and manhood is on the line, that is bigger then the truth…..”
Don’t be stupid, Of course he’s gotten some big hits, he even had a couple i can remember off the top of my head this year. Any big leaguer who’s been in the league for 8/9 years naturally is going to get some hits in key spots.
But, like A-Roid except for 2009 when he got big hits all year for the Yanks and who will go to the Hall Of Fame with great numbers, Wright will leave behind a legacy of being a guy who CANNOT deliver big hits in the clutch, a choker, a gag artist when the chips are down. I KNOW the facts.
If YOU can’t see that without having to look at charts, graphs, & numbers than what the HELL are YOU looking at? Don’t you know anything at all about baseball?
I guess not.
Disagreeing with you about a baseball topic only increases the chance the Man knows what he’s talking about.
After all you’ve claimed a number of times that Steve Phillips was the 2nd best GM the Mets ever had.
You damned RIGHT. Give me a GM who can bring winning and excitement and players that I loved here the way Steve Phillips did ANYTIME
Of course a couple bad signings did him in at the end (like he could have predicted Robbie Alomar would fall to .260 one season from his career high AVG) but he created some of the greatest times of being a Mets fan anyone here can remember not just me. And if any fan can deny that they’re lying to themselves.
Now here comes a parade of a BILLION names and the second guessing and dishonest evaluation that this clown with tourette’s syndrome is noted for. Oh and before anyone disagree you have to explain your original point 10 times first because this guy doesn’t just respond, he reads with a pre-designed filter and responds to what he perceives not reads.
Just watch out for the interns…
at least they were female.
Doubt you’ll see any of that with this new regime of saber goons and nerds.
It’s you that continually responds to things people didn’t write.
Most of the time you just complain that they wrote anything at all as if this website was created simply for people to read your warped ideas.
“like how could he have predicted Robbie Alomar would fall to .260 from his career average.”
That’s his freakin job you *******. Anyone who plays fantasy baseball could look up his damn career average. It’s in the projecting it forward area that a GM is called upon for expertise. Jeez. What an excuse maker. Unbelivable. The guy was 34. What the hell was he thinking when Cleveland came calling. Hmmmm. A 34 year old Roberto Alomar or the crown jewel of the farm system. Tough choice. Doesn’t matter that Escobar busted, it was the thought process behind the move that was insane. Damn nearly included Reyes in that deal too. It very easily could have been Kazmir/Zambranno before Kazmir/Zambranno.
Mo Vaughn, Jeremy Burnitz, David Weathers, Kevin Appier, Roger Cedeno. What draft picks he didn’t fork over for free agents he flat out blew. Busted on 13 out of 17 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks and gave away 6 more of them and traded away six future All Stars and tried his best to trade Wright as well.
What ever success he had was on the back of Mcilvaine and the expense of Minaya and the only reason he experienced any success at all was because a team in our own Division gave us their best players and we had one less team to beat out for the Wild Card.
So Phillip’s success was on the back of Joe Mac & the expense of Minaya.
Now Alderson’s hands are tied from Minaya’s mess
And depending on who you are talking to I notice the mess is the Wilpon’s.
Which is it? Anything else you want to look back on now, years later, after the fact, and then say what you would have done now? In other words, any more second guessing you’d like to share with us. You know – the thoughts you didn’t have at the time these things were happening.
And let’s forget Phillip’s outstanding trades. I won’t list them I’ll just let you list the bad ones so you can make it worse than it was even though Steve Phillips is the only Mets GM to bring the team to back to back post season appearances in their history
Phillips made two good trades, that’s it. Both salary dump deals. That’s why you won’t name them. Out of hundreds of trades only two were any good. The rest all sucked.
A list of some Steve Phillips trades. I’m gonna play t agees game and list ONLY the good ones. So there:
December 18, 1997
Traded Fletcher Bates and Scott Comer to the Florida Marlins for Dennis Cook
Verdict: Win
February 6, 1998
Traded A.J. Burnett, Jesus Sanchez, and Robert Stratton to the Florida Marlins for Al Leiter and Ralph Millard
Verdict: Win
May 22, 1998
Traded Preston Wilson, Ed Yarnall, and Geoff Goetz to the Florida Marlins for Mike Piazza
Verdict: Big, BIG Win
May 22, 1998
Traded Preston Wilson, Ed Yarnall, and Geoff Goetz to the Florida Marlins for Mike Piazza
Verdict: Big, BIG Win
July 23, 1999
Traded Leo Vasquez and Terrence Long to the Oakland A’s for Kenny Rogers
Verdict: Win
July 31, 1999
Traded Brian McRae, Rigo Beltran, and Thomas Johnson to the Colorado Rockies for Darryl Hamilton and Chuck McElroy
Verdict: Win
July 31, 1999
Traded Craig Paquette to the St. Louis Cardinals for Shawon Dunston
Verdict: Win
we all remember Shawon Dunston for the epic AB vs. ATL in that Grand Slam Single game
August 15, 2002
Traded Shawn Estes and cash to the Cincinnati Reds for Pedro Feliciano, Elvin Andujar, Raul Gonzalez, and Brady Clark
Now you can list the bad ones so you can make him look worse than he did because that’s what you like to concentrate on. No wonder you like the new regime so much.
and here’s some of Steve Phillip’s GOOD Free Agent signings:
June 16, 1998
Signed Heath Bell as an amateur free agent
Verdict: Push
July 24, 1998
Signed Melvin Mora as a free agent
Verdict: Push
December 1, 1998
Signed Robin Ventura as a free agent
Verdict: Big Win
December 16, 1998
Signed Rickey Henderson as a free agent
Verdict: Win
March 25, 1999
Signed Orel Hershiser as a free agent
Verdict: Win
August 16, 1999
Signed Jose Reyes as an amateur free agent
Verdict: Big Win
December 11, 1999
Signed Todd Zeile as a free agent
Verdict: Win
March 27, 2000
Signed Timo Perez from the Hiroshima Toyo Carp
Verdict: Win
December 11, 2000
Signed Kevin Appier as a free agent
Verdict: Win
June 5, 2001
Drafted David Wright in the 1st Round (38th pick) of the 2001 amateur draft
Verdict: Win
July 27, 2002
Signed Carlos Gomez as an amateur free agent
Verdict: Win
Signed Cliff Floyd as a free agent
Verdict: Win
Now t agee can list the bad ones
Yeah and Church could have gotten a SAC fly too or Castro could have gotten a hit and Murphy would have scored too and Ayala didn’t have to give up three runs in the top of the 10th either and Perez could have done better than 5 earned runs in 4 1/3 innings.
Now you leave it up to the last inning and sometimes your just not going to get it done but it’s never just one guy. There was always something that every single could have done better. Not to excuse Wright there because you just have to get that run in but still it wasn’t just one guys fault we lost the game, or the season.
31 blown saves had a hell of a lot more to do with it than one AB in September.
Every failure in the last 24 years is Wright’s fault……everything…..
Logic! Glad to see that exists here.
Well if “it ain’t my fault man what about them” is your type of logic than you i see a long line of excuse making in your future.
Everybody knows there were other factors but the context of the Wright comment here is not that, it’s that Wright is not a clutch player in and of itself. Period. He’s a guy that has gained a reputation of falling short in the big spot.
Now if every debate about that PARTICULAR subject is going to escalate into “well this guy did it too” than it tells me pretty much that there are fans of David Wright who are more like him than anything else.
Who me? Take the blame? Who me? Accountability? uh uh uh – blame them too.
That is in essence what you and the other guy are defending.
Okay…believe whatever inane BS you continually spew.
and who the hell am i talking to? Have u even ever stepped foot on a field in your life? Have you ever experienced competition? Competition under pressure with all eyes on you? Actually filled out lineup cards and had fun actually working with high school aged players. I mention that age because that’s old enough to be a more mature game than someone who’s stood on the sidelines at a little game and claiming they have experience.
Or am i wasting all my time talking to some geek who’s love for baseball started by reading a book.
Yup. I’ve played baseball for years. Don’t give me the “oh you didn’t play ball” BS. I’ve got plenty of experience. What did you play…little league? Wow, what a superstar you are!
From ALL your responses I see the answer is NO to all your questions……..or if they were YES, then you were an EPIC failure at it.
Totally untrue. I’m really just a Met Fan who realizes we have bigger fish to fry than David Wright but anyone who has ever played baseball knows perfectly well that it’s never just one guys fault.
Like I said there is no excuse for not getting that run in, or did you gloss over that part?
I’ve been in that situation where everyone’s counting on you in the 9th inning too and it sucks when you don’t come through. No one feels worse than you do. I’ve watched seasons disintegrate in the last inning that would make you puke for a week. Watched the last AB of the year from the on deck circle just dying to get a shot but I didn’t blame just one guy. If anything I blamed myself and maybe not even for something that happened in that game. Maybe a game a week or month before.
I’ve played with guys many times who blame everyone else and I’ll tell you, 99% of the time THEIR the reason we lost. THEIR the loser and their attitude infects the whole team.
I learned a long time ago that when things aren’t going well, assume that your the reason things aren’t going well. That way you know that your doing everything possible to fix it. I tell my team this every time we go through a rough stretch and we never have any finger pointing which is the death of any season whether it starts in April or August. There is always something more that every one could have done that would have made the difference.
I can tell that your the kind of teammate that always points the finger, never picks up a teammate, never mentions the positive and always accentuates the negative. Deflects the blame and looks to blame everyone else without looking at yourself. Thinks that only 8th and 9th inning AB’s count. Goes 0-4 and blames the guy who made the last out.
Glad I never had you as a teammate.
The only reason Wright has supporters is because the organization has tricked them into believing Wright is a star when he isn’t.
trust me they won’t care how cheap he is if he misses significant playing time next season.
The real thing in play here is disappointment not likeability.
They projected numbers for Wright and he didn’t meet them.
They had no projections for Ike and even if they did because he got injured he could not FAIL to meet those projections.
Brandon made a good point in regards to we do not know how much missing 2/3rds of a season will affect his numbers at the plate!
If that missed time does affect him expect to hear calls for putting Murphy at first next year sometime around June or July!
Daily News poll had fans at 73% to keep David. While on this website it seems more want him gone than not.
i want him gone at the right price.. which is starting pitching.. if not, pass and let him see how he does once the move the walls.. although, i am surprised how much he complained, my thinking was he’d become a 50+ doubles a year guy. he’s not a power hitter, more of a line drive type guy, once he changed his approached is when he started struggling more, striking out more and being more unclutch..
FROM THE CORE TO ALL METS FANS:
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111006&content_id=25528362&vkey=news_nym&c_id=nym&partnerId=rss_nym
Jeez, Wheeler didn’t miss a beat.
well, he missed the beat in the playoff game allright…
Lol true.
He finished a top the prospect list? I think Harvey and Wheeler has similiar upside (since Wheeler has had control problems) and Harvey is much closer to being in the MLB than Wheeler.
Why isn’t Harvey at the top? Just a thought. I guess it’s because he struggled a bit before finding himself at Bing.
satish, harvey struggle at double A, wheeler was struggling at single A, but the “scouts” say wheeler has major “upside.. with that being said, look at out top 3 prospect at the end of the year… ALL STARTING PITCHERS!!!!!!! that has gotta be a good sign right!!!
Right you said they struggled, yet the professionals have them ranked high.
Sure you know more…….
Wheeler was learning his command while trying something new the Giants were working on with him. That’s what you do in the minors.
His ERA looks high in comparison to Harvey’s because he pitched most of the year in the California league where starting pitchers have about a run higher ERA. Since coming to St. Lucie his walks were under control and his ERA was only 2.00 in 6 starts, no HR’s, over a K per inning as a 21 year old in his second pro season.
What’s not to like?
couple points.
1) finishing below Davis does not mean voters did not also want to keep wright. just that you had to pick one.
2) of course salary has to be factored in. the question was not which is the best player, rather which would you keep if you could only keep 1. So, look at it like a trade. You get the lower priced player + get to spend the money saved on additional help.
Maybe the question should be do you want to keep Wright, or Keep davis + get to add CJ Wilson?
I’d like to see Ike run first – and I’m sure any GM in their right mind would too, making the question a bit irrelevant.
Kendrys Morales is 15 months removed from his ankle injury, and he’s still questionable for 2012. I guess the bright side is that I doubt he could be any slower than he already was.
Also, 3B’s are a lot harder to replace than 1B’s. Even the crappy ones are good for 20 and 80.
Ike was actually our most tradeable commodity last off season (maybe Niese as well) I was really hopeing Alderson didn’t try to move him in say a Garza type deal. Now with the ankle he’s definitely safe but we do have depth at 1B and he would be attractive to any team that needs a first basemen (Toronto, Tampa)
Sad but true:
Any Met would bat eighth on Texas.
Its easy to see why Mets fans would choose Ike over Wright. Ike hasn’t had time to make fans mad yet. He came out strong and then got injured. Frankly it would be dumb to keep Ike over Wright right now, we don’t know if Ike is going to return truly healthy from his injury. From what I have read Ike says his ankle might not ever be the same. That could impact his game next year a lot. Wright though has had two disappointing seasons in a row. If he returns to form next year I am sure fans would turn around but Mets fans are sick of losing and want instant changes that will improve the team. Thats not possible but who said fans have to be rational? If Ike has a bad year I am sure fans will be screaming for him to be tossed aside too.
Fans love Ike b/c he barely played. If he played more people would start hating him too…its just what fans do.
Technically his 2010 season was probably already worse than any full season Wright has had(maybe except for Wright’s 2011). But he was great in the brief time he played this yr, and didnt have time to screw up, so fans love him right now
I highly doubt it. We’ll just have to see won’t we?
and…um…..technically…no, wait…really…he was a ROOKIE in 2010.
I don’t think i have to go any further with this poster based on that observation.
I know he was a rookie. Every player is a rookie at somepoint, whats your point? I am not saying he isn’t good or can never end up being a great player. Just pointing out a simple fact.
CRAIG, VERY INTERESTING CONCEPT AS A DEBATE STIMULTOR; HOWEVER BASED UPON YOUR COMMENTS I HAVE TO ASK, DOES IKE’S ACCELERATOR EVEN HAVE A “FULL THROTTLE SETTING” AS REGARDS HIS ANKLE, I BELIEVE IT SHOULD BE OF NO CONSEQUENCE AS HELL LONG BEFORE THERE WAS EVEWR A DH, 1B WAS THE HOME FOR THE IKES OF A VERY “GIMPY” MANTLE AS WELL AS PLODDING RUNNERS LIKE McCOVEY & GIL. FIRST BASE IS A SLUGGER/TROTTER POSITION. NEEDING A RANGY 2B OVER A TWO-LEGGED 1B.