Have another cup of Madoff Kool-Aid, will ya?

I don’t want to hear about any contracts ‘coming off the books’. We had a few this year and the Wilpons are keeping the money.

and THAT is the real failure of the Minaya Mets!

If you look at the bad contracts you see only Perez and Bay were truly horrible deals. Thye failed to give you what you thought you were getting when you signed them.

The rest were all fine when they played, they just could not stay on the field to give it to us!

Pedro was doing just fine before he got hurt. He was the one HIGH INJURY risk signing but he was also the “CREDIBILITY MAKER” signing that helped to get Beltran to believe in us enough to come here!

Beltran earned every penny he got. Yes he missed one season across two but if the team had let him get the operation the first year he would not have missed the second!

We resigned Glavine in 2006 and he went 15-7 with a 3.82 ERA (Dickey is the only guy on our current squad who is better!)

Orlando Hernandez had a lot of quality starts when he was healthy. he was our #3 pitcher in the rotation. His performance would make him 2nd best on our current squad behind again only Dickey!)

Wagner got 40 saves in 2006 and 201 during his tenure here. Yes he got hurt. He was overused as was our entire Pen!

Delgado hit 100 HRs in 3 seasons despite his on again off again back troubles that eventually cost him the final year of his contract!

They point to Castillo (and his lowly 8 Mil per contract) as a bad signing. His career met numbers? .274 BA, .366 OBP (it’s all about the OBP isn’t it?) but he had injury issues and couldn’t play every game. He played 10 times more games than Chris Young did at only 8 times the price! So where is this BANG FOR THE BUCK excuse for him? (aimed at others not you 62!)

Santana – is 40-25 as a Met, never lost more than 9 games in any season, has a 2.85 ERA but missed 10 games in 09,10 and all of the 2011 season. Has the highest contract on the team and is STILL our best pitcher over the last 4 years even with the missed time! We will see if he’s done or if his issues continue. But for the first couple of years he was worth every penny he got!

K-Rod – making around 13-15 Mil per. His Met numbers? 3.05 ERA, 83 Saves over 3 years! Worth every cent in fact he is an example of one of their best deals made.

Alou – Signed to platoon in the OF and provide Vet leadership got hurt year 2. Played more than half (platoon?) in year one. Over two years his numbers are: .342 BA, .391 OBP, .507 SLG for the lowly sum of 8 Mil! He did precisely what he was signed to do beat up on Left Handed pitching that used to beat up on us!

I won’t even mention the Valentines and LoDucas we signed that NONE wants to talk about!

Yet it is played out here on MMO by many that every signed contract we made from 2005-2010 was a deadbeat who wasn’t worth a penny!

The problems with this team is not who we signed, how much we signed but a general mismanagement by the medical staff and strength and conditioning regimen!

Couple that with an overuse of the Pitchers and the Pen leads to these kinds of problems!

Spending didn’t kill this team not PROTECTING our investments from a conditioning standpoint did!

We can blame that on Minaya but the same thing happened this year as well!

Chris Young, Ike Davis, David Wright, Jose Reyes, Angel Pagan, and Daniel Murphy.

Those things happen. You can’t blame the GM who can’t possibly predict the physical condition of all his players.

If someone wants to then the current FOP is just as at fault for not changing the medical staff that is supposed to overlook and find these potential injuries and treat them properly and in a timely manner so they don’t have to take a whole season to rehabilitate!

And THIS is the faliure of the organization, not who they signed or for how much!

Wilpon the Boss hires a guy to run his company. The company lost money two years running.

What does the boss tell him?
DO NOT SPEND?
Or does he merely say MAKE IT PROFITABLE?

I say the latter!

I know many would like it to seem like Wilpon is denying Sandy from spending money but I doubt Wilpon ever once has said CUT PAYROLL!

It makes a convenient excuse for those who WANT Sandy to cut and not get the blame for it as it’s simple scapegoating but the truth of the matter he could just as easily spend money and make the team profitable and probably more effectively than cutting will!

Cutting saves Wilpon money, no doubt!
How much is debateable, They don’t pay Reyes but they also lose his draw!
It could be a total wash and that means you didn’t save a penny!

Could be a total wash if spent as well no one denies that!
Getting a big draw who makes 20 Mil may not translate to 20 Mil more profits. Could be less but more than likely it is more money.

Even 5 Mil NET is better than -5 Mil net.

Does more to make the team profitable.

It’s a convenient excuse to sell a concept that spending less wins more which the Yankees, Red Sox and Phillies have disproved in spades!

Many here want a spend less philosophy and seem interested enough in trying it and try and sell it to the masses.
They need an escape route though!

They like Sandy not for what he HAS done but for what they think he will do which is implement that philosophy!
And if he does and fails they will throw it all on Wilpon for holding Sandy back despite the fact they at this point are TAKING the “WILPON” position that we SHOULD save money!

It’s an attempt to have cake and eat it!
Do what I say and if it fails it will be Wilpon’s fault not mine!

Some others would love to see it fall apart so they can throw more darts at Wilpon and hope the team loses so much money he is forced to sell!

Their are a TON of forces at play that inspires people to want to cut salary and SAVE MONEY!

NONE of them have anything to do with the baseball on the field, Winning a championship or what is the best method of team building!

You CAN spend and Build. This is the PERFECT YEAR to go get a Type A as our picks are protected!

Ever hear the SPEND WISELY crowd mention that fact?

NOPE! Doesn’t fit the AGENDA!
Doesn’t paint Wilpon out to be a cheap bastard!
Doesn’t fit the good book moneyball!
Doesn’t involve Statistical analysis of SCRUBS in the hopes of finding a nugget of future gold in the turd pile!
And it fixes the attendance issues better than cutting Reyes does which will remove their excuses when they go after Wright next year!

All these suggestions on Saving money have NOTHING to do with baseball it’s all AGENDA and PHILOSOPHY!

And when it fails they will all point at Wilpon as the reason not the folks who wrote a post a week and 100 comments saying that spending money is DUMB!

All Wilpon said was to make the team profitable and fix the books!
Cutting salary is only one way of getting the books into black ink!

And in a star driven business thats the WORST way to do it!

But it will be all Wilpons fault!
Maybe if they worried LESS about Wilpons money and more about how to get fans in the stands they wouldn’t need a scapegoat to point to when it fails!

Maybe they would LEARN you have to SPEND MONEY to MAKE MONEY!
Thats why the rich get richer because threy have the money to spend to make more!

REALLY? DES? ARE YOU SURE ABOUIT THAT? IF WINNING WAS OF PARAMOUNT IMPOORTANCE WOULDN’T SOME MEASURE TO BULLWALK THE PEDRO ABSENCES FOR ’07 HAVE BEEN UNDERTAKEN, OR SANTANA’S RECENT SIMILAR MALFUNCTIONINGS?
DID YANKEES STOP INVESTING IN PITCHING WHEN IGAWA,PAVANO,BROWN,JOHNSON ALL WENT BUST? DID THE CARDINALS STOP WHEN WAINRIGHT WENT DOWN THIS PAST ST? NO, ONLY THE WILPONS GET THEIR FINGERS BURNT & CHOOSE TO NOT REIGNITE THE FLAME NEEDED TO HEAT UP THE RESULTS.

The loss of funds the TEAM has had the last two years has nothing to do with the Wilpons and EVERYTHING to do with US not going to see the team play!

If the fans want to blame SOMEONE for the payroll cuts they should get themselves a mirror and point!

It’s not lack of Wilpon money nor is it even the impending trial that is to blame it is our lack of going to see the team enough even WITH a high payroll that makes cutting payroll seem like a good idea!

The problem is that cutting Payroll is not going to solve the CAUSE of the problem, it’s only going to make it worse. And if we cut EVERY salary (Bay, Wright, Reyes and Santana) all that means is even FEWER people will go and then they will lose money WITHOUT any method of cutting left to stay under that budget!

Because Crickets get into the park for FREE!

Thats your FO’s STANCE!

It looks like the federal judge is disallowing most of Irving Picard’s main positions. In the end, if the case goes completely against Picard, the Mets will have a lot of money to spend. They spent in the past and there’s no reason in my view to think they won’t spend again. In any case, the Wilpons will not be forced to sell the team.

“Winning has never been in the forefront with that family.” Even Omar Minaya would disagree with you. Look back five years or so to the original signings of Pedro and Carlos. They refute your claim.

so by your definition, team Reyes is refusing to negotiate.

when really, neither side (for valid reasons) wants to make the first offer.

Rees made it clear that once he got to the end of the year, he was going to test the market. And Sandy made it clear that he wanted to sign him. So it is basic “get back to us to let us know what we have to beat” negotiations..

but didn’t you see what the kid who wrote this piece said? Everything Sandy has done so far has been GREAT!

I wonder where this kid wrote this from? Maybe in his dorm, in front of his pc with his fantasy baseball website loaded on his screen?

Are you INSANE? I’m not gonna bother to even respond to such a ridiculously blind statement like that.

You know, when the very first minor leaguer that was developed under Alderson’s regime does come up and be as good as advertised only THAN i will say maybe he is starting to do a good job. And that’s not even taking into account if he does any SMART signings or trades yet this off season.

But to say everything he’s done has been great NOW? I think even people who think along the same lines you do are embarrassed for you.

What happened to MMO???? We used to have such knowledgeable writers baseball wise on this site.

This is an embarrassment.

And all the others were mediocre – Like Capuano(4.55 ERA, 1.35WHIP), Beato(4.30 ERA, 1.28 WHIP), Izzy(4.05 ERA, 1.29 WHIP), Byrdak(3.82ERA, 1.41 WHIP).

So I don’t even see ONE siging that was great…..And we did get a VERY good prospect back for Beltran, but if you trade CARLOS BELTRAN, you BETTER get a very good prospect back.

Sorry, I’m not going to PRAISE a GM, who signed nobody great in the offseason, and traded a terrific hitter, for a good prospect – He has done nothing “great” as GM for the New York Mets.

Everything he has done thus far has been great…

If you didn’t think we were headed in the right direction when Sandy was hired, how could you not think so after he traded Carlos Beltran (who nets you 0 draft picks as a FA) for a top SP prospect…?

A link about how to best Negotiate
http://www.imanageperformance.com/pdf/How42.pdf

STAGE 1 – “Set the scene: Initial impressions will significantly impact the outcome so plan opening words and
styles of approach very carefully. Make sure that you aim high, outlining expectations whilst controlling the opening. Agree the agenda and any rules that you want to introduce for the meeting and take time to condition the expectations of your opponent.”

STAGE 2 – “Explore Possibilities: This stage is all about probing to understand your opponents limits, their willingness to move, discovering possible options and testing where future negotiation opportunities exist. A critical element of this stage is to get the full menu, that’s all the different options that will feature as sub agreements in the overall negotiation. It is vital that you find out all of these options now as you don’t want to concede and or agree on a point to later find that your opponent introduces a further unexpected area to agree. Often it sounds like this: “Thank you very much we can agree to that, but now lets discuss the payment terms”. The danger is that you will have traded all of your planned concessions to achieve the earlier agreement and find you are now being squeezed beyond your preferred limits. Preparation is going to be critical for this stage, so plan and use pre scripted questioning to make sure that you explore the scenario thoroughly. This stage is not just about questioning, listening must also play a major part. Best practice is to understand before you are understood. This places you in a position of slight advantage as you are able to respond to each situation with prior knowledge of the other persons view. Finally do not be too cautious at this stage, challenge your opponent and start to push so that you begin to understand their limits.”

STAGE 3 – “Influence: This is not yet the time to offer concessions, instead use logic and information to support your position. Exercise patience and try to focus on their interests. What would look attractive to them, what position might they accept? Use prepared facts and data to confirm the validity of your position, this makes a counter argument more difficult to justify. If appropriate use the impact of a competitive market to influence, bluff at this stage is risky it is always better to have real options at your disposal.
It is the stage during which you will set out clear proposals for each element of the scenario. You will have come to the meeting
having prepared your own position, but be ready to adjust these depending on what you discovered in stage 2 Exploring
Possibilities. Be ready to push for acceptance of your proposals. This may be too early depending on the negotiation stance of your opponent, but on occasions can prove surprisingly beneficial. If you find there is acceptance and no counter proposal positioned, you can move directly to stage 5 Finalize Agreement.”

Note there is no mention of STANCES until Stage 3 is in effect! Until that point you are not supposed to give away your position (or STANCE) but merely try and expose the other side’s position so that negotiations can begin! You set the ground rules for how to proceed, set parameters and rules for procession and try to get some sense of what they are asking for, what you can agree on and what needs to be negotiated further!

If you skip stage 1 and 2 you will never get to stage 3!

In the case of Jose Reyes I see people supporting the STANCE that we will not pay a lot to Reyes and will not even discuss it with him until the market comes to bear and sets the bar. But as Stage 1 says: “Initial impressions will significantly impact the outcome so plan opening words and styles of approach very carefully”
The initial impression we are giving Reyes is “We don’t really want to pay you what you want. And aren’t really interested in discussing it with you because whatever you say it’s too much!

It’s not a negotiation it’s an UNWILLINGNESS to negotiate!

given that, as best that I can interpret what you are saying is, that the only way for the mets to shw they really, really want him is to start bidding against themselves now, or make him a Godfather (10/200?) offer that just blows them away.

Neither of which faintly resembles smart negotiating.

so making him a modest offer just to say they did (or making a best but not good take it or leave it one) doesn’t seem like it is going to accomplish anything toward getting him signed.