28
2011
Freese Frame! Instant Classic Leads To Game 7 Showdown!
An article by 
Wow, wow, wow…
David Freese homered to lead off the bottom of the 11th inning, and the St. Louis Cardinals forced the World Series to a Game 7 by rallying from two-run deficits against the Texas Rangers in the 9th and 10th on Thursday night.
What an incredible game – an instant classic…
25 years after the 1986 Mets scripted their memorable World Series Game 6 classic, the Cards may have just matched or even surpassed that game as far as the sheer intensity – and not one, but two dramatic comebacks on the brink of elimination tonight. Absolutely amazing game.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 28 | .600 | - |
| Nationals | 34 | 35 | .493 | 7.5 |
| Phillies | 34 | 37 | .479 | 8.5 |
| Mets | 25 | 40 | .385 | 14.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 47 | .319 | 19.5 |
Last updated: 06/18/2013
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No words will do it justice… Just incredible
Unreal. This is what baseball is all about.
When will I get to see the Mets play a game like this!!!
1986.
well, watching the last 3 innings, the pen reminded me an awful lot of September, 2007 in Queens.
They show the Game 6 from 86 All the time on SNY Liz! LOL
well, let’s see:
beltre & Cruz in the 7th = Clutch
freese in the 9th = Clutch
Hamilton in the 10th = Clutch
Berkman in the 10th = Clutch
Freese in the 11th = Clutch
Felix in the 9th = Unclutch
oliver in the 10th = Unclutch
david wright wherever he’s at = Still Unclutch
Well let’s see:
It’s a day ending in Y some Alex68 must continue with his garbage about Wright, but don’t mentioned that Reyes is not currently on pace to be in the HOF…………….
joestalker, NOBODY in here has EVER mention reyes is in HOF pace, metsie mention IF REYES CONTINUES HIS 2011 PRODUCTION DOWN THE ROAD he’d be CONSIDERED.. nobody ever said anything here about reyes being HOF get your facts straight stalker…
by the way, MURPHY STILL AT 3RD.. ha!!!
Thanks Alex!
They ned to paint it that way because they know if they don’t twist what I say it makes sense!
It’s their usual tactic these days!
Metsie, of course, that is what they do, yet if go and offend them for trying to twist your words they go to joe D and complain about how you should be banned etc.. is what they do, they instigate situations so then they can act likt b****.. is a real shame.. i don’t know how you can be nice to any of them losers to be frank.
I haven’t complained to JoeD yet but I must say I am starting to think I should!
Instead of a dislike button maybe a report to moderator button would be in order!
bayonne ran to the moderator after calling me about 8 different names and for the record, I have never gone to the moderator even once.
i know someone that constantly call ppl names, call them uneducated, fools, tell them to go learn english and yet, all he does is complain to the moderator.
That’s a LIE,
I did not run to the moderator. If you don’t believe me email the admins yourself and ask.
Another case of t agee lying, assuming things, & getting his story wrong.
If he can just assume i ran to the moderator when I didn’t than how many other things is he always wrong about.
But i can tell the entire site this – i said nothing to the moderators. And not only that, I don’t think i’m one to go running to the mods to begin with!
SO I want t agee to CORRECT HIMSELF and apologize the site for saying a ran to the moderators when I did no such thing
The guy types a post, it awaits moderation, and he automatically assumed that i ran to the mods.
That’s the thought process of that t agee individual.
Please keep that in mind.
Bayonne Mets Fan says:
October 22, 2011 at 6:44 pm
moderators I believe this is called instigating?
You asked for proof, I gave you proof.
Spin that.
You’re just insane man,
There’s no 2 ways about. There is something seriously wrong with you.
That was from almost a WEEK ago and on another blog post.
I can’t believe anybody would want to debate you on anything because you have a mental problem. You are defiant to the death and never admit to anything. You’re nuts. And besides Joe D already post out here that NOBODY contacted him
Man asks for the proof, I give him the proof and he claims I’m insane.
You just can’t make this stuff up.
Just the other day bayonne claims that my comments on how the ’86 Mets were built was “unfair” and “dishonest.”
He never stated WHY he felt I was “unfair” or “dishonest.” Hell, he didn’t even dispute any of the facts in my comments.
He did call me a bunch of names as usual, of course, but he substantiated his disagreement of what I wrote by binging into the discussion…………………
PINK FLOYD!
Now what in the hell Pink Floyd has anything whatsoever to do with how the ’86 Mets were built is beyond me, but to then label ME insane. Oh man that takes the cake.
hey remember that Game 6 last night? Man what an ending.
Joe has placed Moderation on quite a few people…
Doesn’t mean anyone ran to JoeD to get it done but it DOES mean that those posters have come close to the edge and need to back off a bit….
I have been targeted for moderation on a few threads myself…
I certainly don’t care that he’s looking in fact I applaud it!
maybe if we stopped looking at everyone else and looked at what we ourselves are saying Joe wouldn’t have to look at ANY of them!
Hi agee – I emailed you two days ago that we are having problems with our filter. Nobody emailed me regarding you and you are not intentionally being moderated by MMO. Check the email or your spam folder and please let me know if you did not get that email. Or email me at GetMetsmerized@aol.com and I will reply back to forward you with the email I originally tried to send you. Sorry for the problems, but you are not the only one. We had over 150 comments go into moderation in last 48 hours and I don’t know what the cause is.
OK Joe. Fair enough. I thought it was because of my response to bayonne after he called me a bunch of names on this site, AND after he publically called for the moderator on Oct. 22nd at 6:44 pm.
The email I use is actually a business e mail for someone I’m covering for while he can’t run his business so I don’t even access to it, but again, understood and thanks for the reply.
LOL Joe you call it a bug and I call it a good programming!
I see no problem with keeping posters on their toes from time to time, make them think twice about what they are about to say!
Well Tag while you might fall into the trap of insult from time to time (Hell I do as well!) Your posts are usually long enough so that there IS some baseball talk going on.
It’s not those posts that are the problem it is the Who and Donal posts which are one liners have no baseball in it whatsoever and only purpose is to insult the person saying something baseball that has to stop!
I have not sent a single email to JoeD and I hope it never gets to the point that I have to!
And you would be one of the last people I would complain about!
As long as there is some baseball being spoken I’m fine!
It;s the childish teenaged sniping that has to go from here!
At least You Jessup and X TRY to make a point!
Most of what Donal says is pointless!
And his friend WHO is even worse than him (which I didn’t think possible before last week!)
Metsie we ALL make our points a little too strenuously at times, but we’re guys, we understand that. No one takes offense or if they do it’s quickly forgotten about.
You and I can disagree on many issues and yet agree with each other on others. That really isn’t the case with quite a few posters.
My comments are 99% about baseball. I will defend myself though.
For a full year now I have never called bayonne a name until he calls me one. Then I respond. Very simple.
I also don’t make comments about other posters mothers, wives, girlfriends or daughters. I also don’t write that I would like to spit on people. I also don’t respond to things people DIDN’T write. I respond to what they DID write.
For a full year now bayonne has never responded to what I have written, he just expresses dislike that I did write what I wrote and usually does it by calling me names.
For the life of me I can’t understand why he would even respond to a comment I made if he’s not going to address the issue I brought up, either to dispute the facts, provide a different view of the issue or anything at all. He responds simply to call someone names and express disapproval without ever stating WHY he disapproves.
Alex has called me quite a few names as well. To the best of my knowledge I have never called him a name ever.
X and I had a huge difference of opinion when I first came on this site but we never called each other names. We just disagreed and put forth the reasons why. Simple. No big deal.
With bayonne it’s always personal, and he’ll always try to make it personal rather than just discussing the merits of what is written. He has written many times about how he will “attack.” He’s here to “attack”, not discuss.
I just come here to have reasonable discussions and I’ll fully admit that I’ve called bayonne names but really he’s the last one that should be complaining about that.
Dude, me and you disagree a boatload on some things but at least we talk baseball!
I can’t hate you as I don’t know you!
And maybe I’m a bit of an old fart but I at least respect someone TRYING to make a point as opposed to some kid who just trying to make trouble in the name of supporting someone ELSE’s point without any attempt to ENHANCE that point just cheerlead!
Those same guys have beat on Bayonne and Alex and try to beat on me (Unsuccessfully I might add) and while I don’t agree with everything Bayonne and Alex say (especially in regards to wright) They at least cite examples of whay they feel the way they do while others merely beat on them for ANYTHING they say regardless of what it is they said!
They said it so they deserve to be called an idiot!
If we all did that and worked on that principle JoeD would have to shut the comment section down as MMO would be nothing but three or four good posters lost in a sea of teenaged immature crap!
Some posters need to get with the program that we are here to talk about BASEBALL not each other!
And if you can’t disagree on POINTS then your not qualified to disagree and post merely on IDENTITY!
But the point I’M making is exactly THAT.
bayonne never responds to the point, he only responds to the identity.
He never disputes the facts I use to back up my opinions, he simply expresses disapproval that I wrote anything anything at all and he does so, usually be calling people names.
He tries to discredit peoples opinions not on their merits, but by trying to get personal with them. Getting personal with people is not what this website is all about.
This website is first and foremost about the NY Mets. Secondly, it’s about baseball. There really is no third place here. Sure we can disagree but at least disagree with the points people have made, rather than just calling them names or looking up their facebook accounts in order to get personal with them.
There is also no reason why people can’t actually agree with some points a person makes that contradict their opinion. I vehemently disagree with your opinion about the ’69 and ’86 Mets, current NYY, Phillies and Braves being built on the basis of “sucking for 10 years” but that didn’t prevent me from bringing up 4 guys on those 5 teams that WERE unavailable to mostly ever other team (Gooden, Straw, Chipper, Jeter) I just asked you to provide some others to back up your opinion.
Just yesterday or the day before I told Vinny B “I stand corrected.” No big deal. Vinny makes his points and responds to other’s points in a meaning full way. He doesn’t just call people names or seek to discredit their opinion while at the same time avoiding the points made that formed that opinion.
Tag if you get abused everyday what do think is going to happen with that person eventually!
What is that person eventually going to do to everyone deserved or not?
You get what you give and you give what you get!
Right or wrong thats the human condition!
Oh now it’s poor little bayonne huh Metsie?
“He’s being abused here every day.”
Get real.
Whenever a new poster visits this site the first thing bayonne tries to do is find out if they agree with each other, then if they don’t he tries to run them off the site.
When I started coming on here, he and I disagreed on most issues just like you and myself do. We ended a lot of debates by calling each other names but I had seen how bayonne talked to everyone else that he disagreed with. I’ve been around the block long enough to know if your going to dish it out you better be able to handle it when it comes back.
I had no idea there was any animosity from bayonne behind it and there certainly wasn’t any from me I can tell you that for sure.
Then one day he started trying to paint me as some sort of deranged homeless guy in the park. I said nothing. This went on for a couple of weeks and then one day I responded to his mistaken impression of how the Mets obtained John Olerud.
bayonne was insisting that Steve Phillips signed him as a free agent. I simply corrected him, telling him that Joe Mcilvaine traded (Robert Person) for Olerud. bayonne kept insisting and finally I told him “trust me on this” he responded by saying “trust YOU? I’d rather spit on you.” Now I ask you does that sound like bayonne was being abused?
You disagree with people frequently on this site, as do I. Have you ever written that you would like to spit on someone? I haven’t and I can’t think one other person who has.
Do you look up peoples facebook accounts? I don’t. Do you make comments about peoples mother, wives, girlfriends or daughters? I don’t.
I come here simply to discuss baseball in general and the Mets in particular but if some highstrung loudmouth wants to try to hijack the discussion away from baseball I’m able to accomadate that too.
you forgot one little detail (as you ALWAYS do) I had posted the site where I got the info that Phillips got Olerud. I was supposed to know this was wrong?
http://seamheads.com/2010/09/07/steve_phillips_v_omar_minaya/
You’re dishonest, you’re VERY DISHONEST in fact. You NEVER give your own team the benefit of the doubt and Me and MANY others have called you on it. You twist all your minor league and draft facts around, and half the conversation with you is people constantly telling you you’re missing the point. And you also blame the GMs for everything wrong that ever happened to the Mets and NEVER, EVER point to the fact that the Mets have had their own destiny in their own hands ON THE FIELD. The injuries are also Minaya’s fault according to you while at the same time you have given a PASS to guys like Jason Heyward right here on this site. You’re so full of it it’s amazing. You also have this fantasy of an all homegrown team, no players over 29.
There’s a LOT wrong with you too buddy. And you’re WRONG plenty of times
You always have to have the last word, you’re never wrong, and you have an answer for everything. I may cuss sometimes and show my emotions but I would rather that be my vice than the baloney you pull here all the time – always praising other teams while ripping your own team apart and never giving them the benefit of the doubt and blaming everything on the front office.
Right, and I told you to “trust me” that seamheads.com was wrong, that’s when wrote you’d rather “spit on me than trust me.”
I didn’t attack you because you had it wrong and I couldn’t give a rat’s *** HOW you had it wrong.
You had it wrong, I was just letting you know how we really got Olerud and politely too. There was no need for that and you either know it, or your too dumb to know it. One or the other.
Now you spend all day here complaining about every single move the Mets have made over the last year over and over again before anything even has a chance to play out. Before the new FO even has a chance to implement any of their own ideas.
You spend a large part of every day complaining about the third basemen, rehashing one AB from 2008 on a regular basis just like some idiots did with Beltran. Your no different then them.
You also spend a large part of everyday criticizing sabermetrics and insulting people that like them.
Your negativity is off the charts and the only time you every respond to any of the points I make is when you respond to something I didn’t say. Other than that you just complain that I said anything in the first place.
If that’s your only response to what I have to say (other than juvenile name calling) why don’t you just not respond at at all.
If you cannot discuss a difference of opinion on the issues themselves in an adult like fashion than there is no reason to respond to any post, by anyone.
I happen to have been a LONG LONG time Met Fan, probably a hell of a lot longer than you and I am fed up with you trying to stifle every opinion that you disagree with and turn it into some childish internet war instead of having a rational adult like examination of the facts.
This website is not about you or me or anyone else, it’s about the NY Mets and while there is no harm in disagreeing, even vehemently, there is no reason why it can’t be done in a civil, constructive and even in a fun and enjoyable way.
A lack of respect for other people and opinions is none of those things.
Get with it.
Instigate? YOU WERE THE ONE THAT BROUGHT UP WRIGHT!
Oh you mean like what was done to reyes all season long?
You know the guy who was the Batting Champion but isn’t worth keeping?
I have never misquoted Sandy!
But some had misinterpreted what he says thinking they are going to get one thing when they are likely to get another!
He may very well let Reyes go!
And you will all jump for joy saying hey he is getting it!
And then go pay 25 Mil for an average pitcher with the money he saved and then YOU will be trashing Sandy while the guys who trash him now will defend!
I can’t wait to see the day when the Pro-Sandy crowd turns on him!
Just for the LAUGH factor!
and ESPECIALLY if it’s because he does more of what we have been saying should be done than what you THINK he will do!
No usual tatics are taking a perfectly good blog and turning it into an irrational hate fest on Wright when it’s not even about him, THAT is twisting things.
Go misquote Alderson some more for your agendas
One of his quotes was actually “Exactly which is why a guy like Reyes will get in! Only thing that would stop him is a career ending injury and even then he would get some votes for induction!”
i did not see metsie posting that, at first you guys jump on him and twisted what he wrote, look it up again and find the first post he said then see the ones following after that..
Your problem is you think a HOF pace requires big numbers every year of his career!
If Reyes was 33 right now he might not!
He’s still young and about to hit what YOU call his PRIME!
Thats means if his prime is COMING, considering what he has done BEFORE his prime if PRIME means BEST YEAR then Reyes is a lock!
But it all comes down to does he maintain what he has done so far!
if PRIME means MORE and decline from PRIME means what we got now he’s in and not even YOU can deny that!
There is a lot of Big If’s in your scenario. You can say if for many all star players under that scenario and have the same outcome.
Yep but then again I did USE the IF where as Jessup used the NO WAY IN HELL to say Reyes could EVER make the HOF!
I at least admit there is a chance he won’t as I know things happen!
But then again I don’t have a vested interest in Reyes being a failure!
I want to keep him!
Jessup needs Reyes to fail so his point about letting him go can look good!
I call right now his prime? When did I do that?
I think a MLB Players prime years in today’s game are 25-29 max. Players are stronger, and faster when they are younger and in the big leagues. Players who use steroids get faster or stronger when they get older… not everybody else.
I think you can clearly see most players begin their descending when they hit their 30′s
What age do you consider a player to be in his Prime Jessup?
How old is Reyes now?
Why are you asking me a question that I already answered?
“I think a MLB Players prime years in today’s game are 25-29 max”
Why do you think most every player who becomes a free agent does so around 29-31? Because their original teams lock them up out of arbitration for their prime years. They know they will likely get the most out of a player during their younger years.
Sure, there are some rare cases like Nelson Cruz… but if you give me 100 players, I’d bet the vast majority of them start their offensive decline after their 29th birthday. Is it a drastic decline? No. But players generally do not play at 30 years old the same way they did or could when they were 26.
Jose Reyes will be 29 years of age in June. Therefore, based on my statements above, likely 80% of his contract will be played through past his prime years.
Ok I got you confused with Tag who said 27-33 was prime then!
And if you didn’t know the average age of a rookie in the MLB is 26!
Not the case with Reyes but that is what the average rookie age is for first MLB appearance!
And the stats show that the EARLIER a player comes up the more likely he will have a LONG career because he gets the rookie problems out of the way early and retires later where most rookies who come in are out of the game after 4-5 years on average!
Reyes started young and is STILL in his prime (even by your standard!)
That means that now EXPERIENCE should make up for anything Age will hurt for the next 6-8 years.
Unless like I said there is a career threatening or ending injury!
Not many Hammy problems do that which is the oly knock you have on Reyes!
Baseball Writers like Bill Madden,Tom Verducci and Peter Gammons always say the criteria for getting into the Hall is to be the dominant player at your position for a decade at least.
Reyes has had years when he was among the dominant SS’ in the game but he would have to play on the level of 2006 and 2008 for another 6-7 years,win a few GG and an maybe an MVP or a lot of near misses for the MVP to get in.If last season was not an aberation and he has 5 straight seasons like last year then he’s most likely getting in.I don’t buy the “He needs 3000 hits to get in” theory.All he needs is another 6-7 years like he had in 06 and 08 or 5 more like 2011 without missing any significant time due to injury.
With that said I don’t think the Wilpons want to sign another player to a mega contract,the sad part is they have thrown big money to free agents who gave their best years to their former teams yet they’ll let one of their own walk because they don’t want to pay him.
Joe who is going to do more than Reyes in the next few years?
Tejada?
I mean right now his only competition is Jeter and he has already started his decline.
Sure there are good SSs inthe league but none have what it takes to really surpass him only Reyes can make that happen either via Injury or sucking!
And if some new kid comes up he still won’t have much affect on Reyes because he will get judged by a different era!
So either there is a guy now who give Reyes a run for his Hall Money or Reyes gets in save his own failure in the future!
So Hanley Ramirez, Troy Tulowitski and Jimmy Rollins would not be considered direct competition?
Hanley ramirez and Rollins you can’t be serious! Florida is rumored to be interested in replacing Ramirez with Reyes!
Rollins too in Phillie!
Rollins has a .272 Career BA! Doesn’t have half the range of Reyes! It’s not just Reyes’ Bat it’s his glove too! And before you go on about Errors he gets to more balls because of that range which leads to more errors!
Troy Tulowitski no he’s too young and may even still be playing by the time Reyes is up for election.
He’s got power in Coors field and isn’t half the fielder Reyes is. Another guy who is solid but not at all as defensivly impressive as Reyes!
You guys need to stop looking at just the offense!
Ozzy Smith was no big offensive powerhouse (he got better as time went on though) Ozzy made it purely on his defensive abilities and with enough offense to not hold him up!
Yep I’m sure we will….
Doesn’t really matter if he does or doesn’t!
To me it’s about what you got not what you might be.
I don’t see anyone else with a shot at the HOF on this roster except maybe Santana if his arm doesn’t fall off and he rebounds to his old self.
And to me that makes Reyes a keeper.
What I find most humerous here is that you attack me when I comment on Jose Reyes in stories relevant to Jose Reyes. Yet you for reasons only known to you, feel the need to include David Wright in this post?
Answer me this question Alex. How many Game 6 in the WS has David Wright played in?
When you answer that you’ll understand that measuring his “clutch” against something that happened last night is just plain uninformed. Get off this clutch train, it’s lame and before these playoffs you probably didn’t even know who Freese was.
jesseP, david wright hasn’t played in any world series because he choked the opp away. also, did you know who freese was?? because if you do is because you already looking around stats to write an article about the cardinals if they win the WS and how the mets should be like them and whatnot.. you keep being as pathetic as they come you know… is really sad, i’ll guarantee you that some BS article is coming from you about how the mets need to simulate what any of these 2 teams are doing.. second guessing and fantasizing
Baseball is a team game. When a team misses the post season by just one game everyone could have done one thing more that would have made the difference.
I don’t blame Wagner entirely for losing the 2006 NLCS, although he helped with his 13.50 ERA in four appearances.
I don’t blame Beltran for the last out. Hell he had a terrific series.
I don’t blame Glavine for his game 162 start in 2007.
I don’t blame Reyes for his .205 BA in September of 2007.
I don’t blame Delgado for his awful 1st half in 2007.
I don’t blame Delgado for his awful 1st half in 2008 either.
I don’t blame the bull pen for blowing 33 saves in 2008.
I don’t blame Pedro for his 5.61 ERA in 2008.
I don’t blame Brian Lawrence for his 6.83 ERA in 2007.
I don’t blame Scott Schowenweiss for his 5.03 ERA in 2007.
I don’t blame Pelfrey, Humber or Kunz for their poor performances in pennant races they were thrown into.
I don’t really blame any of them. If anything I blame them all.
Mostly I just question the wisdom of going for broke when 10 spots on the 25 man roster were fringe talent and the only AAA depth that wasn’t fringe talent, wasn’t ready.
INCLUDING the manager and the GM it should be noted!
If the Cards lose this series they will be talking about that Bullpen thing till kindom come!
And if they win they will talk about what a genius LaRussa is!
Or how Pujols should be resigned no matter WHAT the cost!
Because they know you can’t keep on winning by letting your best players go for the mere love of MONEY!
Metsie every year teams lose some of their best players due to not being able to resign them. This past off season the Phillies lost Werth, Texas lost Cliff Lee Tampa lost Carl Crawford. this off season the Brewers will probably lose Fielder. It’s part of the game it doesn’t mean you can’t win because a team does so.
And why are they no able to resign them MNJ?
BECAUSE of MONEY!
In rare cases because of RING!
But 99% of leaving FAs is because they won’t pay what someone else will!
They value their MONEY more than someone else does!
Obviously because of money. Every team evaluates where they are every year and make decisions accordingly. That is how it has always been. Still doesn’t mean they can’t win.
It does mean they can’t win if they can’t keep the players that help them do it!
Like anything in life you get what you pay for!
better quality means longer lasting in most cases so while you might be able to win with a lesser player he won’t give you those wins as long as a guy who gets paid more because he is a BETTER player!
Doesn’t mean they can’t win even the worst team in the league wins a game every now and then.
But saving money sure doesn’t mean you have just as much chance to win as those who DID spend!
Just look at the spenders they win every year. While there are non spenders who win too it’s never the same NON-SPENDER every year!
You reduce your ability to win on LUCK and when luck doesn’t hold someone else gets in!
sorry Metsie but the Mets have spent every year and have nothing to show for it. You keep believing it’s simply about spending but everything points to it not being true.
I have shown you that the Mets have outspent the NL over the last 20 years and have nothing to show for it. I have shown you that many teams that have been in the toop 10 in payroll over the last 16 years more times than not never reach the postseason.
I know you believe that spending more is the way but everything suggests that for the most part that is not true and especially when it involves the Mets.
Nothing? You call the 2006 playoffs NOTHING?
You call the two years of being in the division and wildcard race NOTHING?
They spent to get three years of meaningful baseball while they rebuilt the Minors.
And as a result we have (I really am going to make a macro for this list)
Davis, Murphy, Duda, Niese, Gee, Tejada, havens, Flores, Harvey, Familia, Mejia….to look forward to!
Please note the years that the mets were the TOP SPENDER?
The Yankees have been in 16 of the last 17 Playoffs!
Won 5 of 7 WS appearances!
Compete in the divivion with the second highest MLB spender and 2nd most successful team in baseball.
The non spenders who get it never maintain it!
Because they don’t keep what got them there!
Over 20 years 3 playoff appearances and more importantly no ring to show for it? Yes for me they have nothing to show for it. Jessep once said (sorry for bring you up jessep) that he would rather have 10 years of playoff appearances than just 1 ring in 10 years. I do not agree with him on that. I would rather have that 1 ring than 10 post season appearances. The Mets in 20 years of outspending the NL have no rings to show for it.
Therefore why I say they have nothing to show for it. Now if you believe 3 post season appearances in 20 years is something then fine but where I am concerned I do not share the same feelings.
The big spending is only an attempt to treat the symptom. It does nothing to address the illness and usually causes the illness to get even bigger.
The symptom is having so many “holes to fill.” The illness is not having the proper people in the system to fill those holes.
Frequently when you fill those holes from outside your doing so by taking away the biggest vaccine for that illness. The #1 draft choice. Or your taking away the third best vaccine, the #2 draft choice. (IFA is the 2nd best)
You can keep treating the symptom but you’ll never cure the disease unless you attack it with the antibiotic.
Frequently treating the symptom doesn’t even work. Often times it’s prevented us from treating other symptoms elsewhere and caused a whole new illness while we suffered through it. The upset stomach.
Just imagine last off season. Let’s just say that Glavine had resigned with us in 2008 or fell apart just one year earlier. That would have mean’t no Ike Davis taken with the 18th pick of the first round. Maybe we take Ike at #22 (Reece Havens) or maybe we don’t. Who’s to say? For the sake of this example let’s just say the Braves keep their pick and select Davis which is a VERY VERY likely possibility.
The Braves have needed a first basemen for a while now and in fact did take Freeman the following year in the 2nd round.
OK. Back to last off season. Wouldn’t have happened with the found austerity and probably with the new FO but in years past what might we have done?
We would have looked around, seen “who was available” and there is a VERY good chance that we would have turned an adoring glance toward………Adam Dunn!
Adam Dunn would be mulled around in the press and our minds, and the conversation would go like this. “If Dunn can put up the numbers he puts up every year than you can pencil him in for 35 HR’s” “Citi Field can’t hold Dunn, it’ll be a real advantage to have a guy Citi Field can’t keep in the yard.” “This is the best year to sign a free agent because our first round pick is protected.”
Well in years past that’s exactly what we would have done. Given up our 2nd round pick and gotten **** play to boot, all the while clogging the roster and the payroll with yet another useless player AND depriving our farm system of a potential high end solution 3-4 years down the road OR a quality arm someone else might be interested in.
In this example Adam Dunn is used to treat the symptom while at the same time making the illness worse. Ike Davis is the vaccine that treats the illness.
MNJ
“Over 20 years 3 playoff appearances and more importantly no ring to show for it”
Is that because we SPENT or because we did not SPEND ENOUGH?
I say the latter!
Proof?
NY YANKEES
Bostong REDSOX!
Spent the most, won the most!
Mets have NEVER spent the MOST!
Thats the problem people try to portray them as the poster boy of spending failure when they don’t even come CLOSE to spending the ay the yankees and redSox do to get the result spending gets you!
I have not seen any notion presented by the “LET HIM GO” side that does that!
They are not saying lets get this guy instead.
All they are sayiong is they get draft picks!
If your answer is the Mets need to outspend the yankees to win then I a sorry to say that you probably will have to wait a long time to see that happen.
The Yankkes have been 1st in payroll 14 of the last 16 years. Again they are the exception to the rule no team can hang with them when it comes to payroll. If you think this is what the Mets must do you are going to most likely be waiting a very long time for it to happen.
Again and I know that now i am repeating myself but the Mets have outspent the NL over the last 20 years Metsie. It has gotten them less than what it has gotten many teams that have spent far far less.
Spending more is not the answer. Even the Yankees over the last 10 years have 1 ring.
after tonight’s game it will mark the 6th time in the last 10 years that a team has won the W.S. without being in the top 10 in payroll.
I understand you disagree but the fact remains that it simply is not about spending more.
Spending wisely yes but spending more no.
Even the Yankees great run was built on developing the farm all those years ago.
I am going to finish with repeating what you asked.
“Is that because we SPENT or because we did not SPEND ENOUGH?”
They spent more than any team in the NL and reached the playoffs 3 times. While other teams reached the playoffs more times while spending less.
Clearly it is not about spending more.
LoL trying to keep up with you in multiple threads can sometimes get confusing.
the 1st part in the above post where I say,
“I have not seen any notion presented by the “LET HIM GO” side that does that!
They are not saying lets get this guy instead.
All they are sayiong is they get draft picks!”
somehow got copied in there but was meant for the other thread. So you can disregard that part and my apologies if it confused you.
Metsie we spent more money than any other team in the National League. Boston and NYY BOTH got into the playoffs more often than they didn’t over the last 10 years. Both of them, in the same year.
We did outspend ALL of our competitors and 3 times in 20 years made the post season (once by the thinest possible margin and aided by some extremely good fortune) and 3 times just missed by one game.
The one thing that spending the most SHOULD do for you is tip the balance of luck in your favor so even with that going for us we made it once out of four nailbitters, once comfortably and once easily and eleven times lost more than we won.
Those are not the results of a team who hasn’t spent enough, there more the results of a team HAVING to spend too much because of too many deffencies within it’s own farm system.
Too much money spent on patching retreads instead of biting the bullet and buying a whole new set of fresh tires and properly balancing them, breaking them in and rotating them.
Reyes, Wright and Heilman were the only guys from the system up here in 2006 that were real full time solutions. Pelfrey, Milledge, Humber those guys were just rushed up to help out here and there.
When you start with just three guys that means you need 22 guys for the Major League roster and another 10 or so in AAA for depth. It’s extremely difficult to hit most of those 22 right AND to get most of them right in the same year to make it worthwhile.
You also have to pay those 22 a lot MORE to outbid other teams who are getting the same result for a lot less (Papplebon 415K Vs. Wagner 11M as an example) so the net effect is you pay a lot more in order to get a lot less.
I mean who really believes that the 2006 Mets would have won 97 games if they played in the AL East? Toronto won 87 that year. That’s about where we would have been if we played in the AL East and that’s in a year in which everything went perfect (at least until the playoffs)
The following year the Phillies got better, we got a little worse, one year older and not everything went perfect. That year Toronto won 83 games in the AL East. That’s about where we would have been if we played there in 2007, at best.
2008 same thing. We won 89 Toronto won 86. If we played in the AL East we would have at MOST won 86 games.
Basically from 2006-2008 we were the Toronto Blue Jays, just playing in an easier division.
Metsie! How in the world could you even fathom the Mets spending anywhere near what the Yankees spend. The only similarities between the 2 teams is the City in which they play.They pulled in over 300 million after payroll in 2010.No other team in all of professional sports including the Dallas Cowboys made as much as the Yankees,not even the Manchester United Soccer team who used to make more than the Yankees.
The Wilpons will never spend more than whatever the luxury tax threshold is.Steve Phillips said on his radio program last offseason when all the talk of the Madoof situation was going around that the Mets only make a profit when they reach the postseason,they otherwise only break even at best.I’m not sure how true that is but I don’t think he would lie.If anything I would think he would say something to the contrary since they fired him.
LOL Yeah you have tio wait for one reply to post before you move onto the next! Happens to me all the time!
“I a sorry to say that you probably will have to wait a long time to see that happen”
Yep but probably not as long as we will wait if we do what Tag says and wait 10 years of losing before we have the kids he wants to have.
Long before that happens Sandy will get run out of town and a new GM will come in who WILL spend so I probably won’t be waiting to see us be the Yankees as long as everyone else would wait to be the Marlins!
Cause no GM in NY is going to get that long a time!
“Metsie we spent more money than any other team in the National League”
Yep and beat almost all of them too that first year!
If we had spent as much as the Yankees we would have beat that last one as well!
“How in the world could you even fathom the Mets spending anywhere near what the Yankees spend”
Joe please realistically tell me what was stopping them? Why could they NOT do that in 2007 and 2008?
Was there a ruling by Selig that said no team may spend more than the Yankees?
I mean come on this crap that the Yankees can spend more than anyone else is all about playing in NY and when we win we draw MORE than the Yankees in the same city!
Look at attendance figures for 2000!
We averaged 31K per game they averaged 35K per game!
They were annual WS team we were nobodies!
ALl we need to do to outdraw the Yankees is win as often as they do!
And that means spending what they spend if you want to compete with them!
For wins WS and ATTENDANCE!
“If we had spent as much as the Yankees we would have beat that last one as well!”
You can believe that if you want
submit error
to finish.
“You can believe that if you want Metsie but in my opinion everything seems to suggest the contrary.”
As you already know history suggest otherwise.
You say that MNJ but when have we ever spent 200 Mil in a year?
You can’t say something would not have happened if you didn’t try it!
How much would another Ace Pitcher cost?
25 Mil? Still not even CLOSE to what the yankees spent.
Another Big Bat in the OF? 20 Mil? STILL not close to what the yankees spent that year!
And that would be enough to get us through the playoffs and into the WS!
“You say that MNJ but when have we ever spent 200 Mil in a year?”
Metsie the Yankees have had 5 seasons where they have had a payroll of $200M or more.
They have 1 W.S. to show for it.
Spending more than $200M is not what it’s about. Remember 6 of the last 10 W.S. champs counting the Cardinals who just won were not even in the top 10 in MLB in payroll.
And 17 years of the highest payroll in baseball (prob more!)
How many WS have they won compared to everyone else?
Whose in 2nd place in that area and what do they spend?
1 WS to show and 5 playoff appearances!
Yankees great run began by the development of the farm by Gene Michael all those years ago.
The yankees have won 1 W.S. over the last 10 years even though they have led MLB in payroll ever year.
The Yankees are on their own level.
More teams not in the top 10 in payroll have won the W.S. over the last 10 W.S.
The Mets have outspent every team in the NL and have nothing (Rings) to show for it.
I think you will agree that all this has been said before and we are now doing what I have tried to avoid. Simply repeating ourselves.
I am willing to listen to any new info that you can provide that would make me rethink what we have discussed but if the response would be to simply spend like the Yankees then I think you will agree that we have pretty much made all the points we can make so it’s probably best to continue this when we have some new info to interject to this lively discussion.
You have a good one Metsie. Have a nice weekend.
A farm which produced 4 players they built around MNJ.
The rest were trades and purchases!
Tell me we don’t have those kids yet!
Davis, Murphy, Tejada, Duda, Gee, Niese, Havens, Flores, Harvey, Familia, Mejia, Neuwenhuis, etc…etc…
We don’t have those kids yet. Simple as that. Look, I’m as excited about the future as the next guy, but six of those guys haven’t even Played a ML game yet, Niese didn’t really progress, Gee’s rookie year was uninspiring, Murphy can’t stay healthy, we don’t know how Ike will heal and Tejada’s ceiling offensively is adequate at best. Let’s can the comparisons to Jeter, Mo, Posada, Pettitte and Bernie. It’s frankly unfair to the Mets kids.
Davis, Murphy, Tejada, Duda, Gee, Niese, Havens, Flores, Harvey, Familia, Mejia, Neuwenhuis, etc…etc…
I finally made the Macro!
“But 99% of leaving FAs is because they won’t pay what someone else will!”
Rarely a free agent signs with another team for less money so of course it will be because the losing team didn’t match the winning teams offer.
And when it DOES happen it’s because the team he went to can get him a RING while the team he left could not!
We only got Beltran because we went and got Pedro!
We showed we were going to win.
Say we save the money on Reyes.
Who is going to come here and how much MORE will we have to offer over market to get them to come and make up for what we lost on Reyes?
It’s a pay me now or pay me more later cycle!
I am not sure who your referring to when you say “And when it DOES happen it’s because the team he went to can get him a RING while the team he left could not!”
The Mets showed they were willing to pay more that’s all. They never won remember that. Beltran did not take less that i recall to sign with the Mets neither did Pedro if I recall.
Cliff Lee took less for Ring
Beltran would have taken lesser offers if not for the fact that we went after Pedro and convinced him he wasn’t going to be the only guy we went after and showed committment that we were going to do what it takes to win.
Otherwise we don’t get him DESPITE being the higher offer he had!
They showed they were willing to pay more!
But not enough to maintain the winning!
And because of that they didn’t get the best players nor the best draw and lost money due to lack of attendance!
Didn’t help that Beltran got hurt but we never replaced Delgado and if we had we would probably be in the black the last two years!
We spent but not enough!
40-60 Mil short of the top spenders.
And how much Pitching and Hitting would that money have gotten us?
Lets just say how much money would we lose and how much attendance would we have lost if we had a 25 Mil pitcher and 25 Mil hitter those two years?
If your saying that in your opinion Beltran would of taken less then I will respectfully disagree with it. If your saying Beltran said he would of taken less I don’t recall him saying that but if you can provide a quote it may help refresh my memory. Still even if he did say it it’s something that we will never know since it didn’t come to it.
Regarding Cliff Lee I recall the night he signed and I wrote a post on it and based on the reports you can debate that he may have indeed took less but the difference may not be as bis as some might think.
The point being Lee’s decision to go to Phillie didn’t mean he left a huge payday somewhere else on the table.
Here is what I wrote when Lee signed.
http://realdirtymets.com/2010/12/14/halladay-oswalt-hamels-and-lee-oh-my/
He would have taken less from SOMEONE ELSE if he thought we were not going all out to win!
He might have even stayed where he was for less!
Less than WE payed him!
“He would have taken less from SOMEONE ELSE if he thought we were not going all out to win!
He might have even stayed where he was for less!
Less than WE payed him!”
Fair enough he may have I just don’t recall him ever saying he would.
You don’t think the Phillies wanted to keep Werth so he can helpp them win a ring? I am pretty sure they did but they didn’t think he was worth what the Nats paid him. For that matter many teams didnt think Werth was worth matching what the Nats offered.
Yet they did then go and get Pence to replace him despite having a guy who was doing ok there!
It’s not about who you let leave MNJ!
It’s about what you do to replace what left!
With Reyes the option is Tejada. Ok fine, what are we doing to get the rest of what we lost from reyes back?
And how much compared to reyes do we have to overpay someone else to get it?
Then factor in WILL HE do what we think he will in Citi (See Jason Bay)
We KNOW what Reyes will give us in Citi.
The risk of him missing games is far less than risking money of someone else who got all his numbers in a different situation!
If the let reyes go crowd had a reasonable GET INSTEAD candidate I would be happy to debate the merits of that.
But all they have is LET HIM GO and no Plan B!
And they say thats a LONG TERM view!
BULL!
it’s s hort term view with no FUTURE plan!
An thats why I have opposed those who push it!
Tell me what your getting instead!
Draft picks are not enough!
WHO is going to make up the loss and how much do we have to pay HIM?
If your suggesting the Phillies let Werth go cause they knew they could replace him with Pence (which I hope your not) then I simply in no way agree with such a scenario.
The Phillies let Werth go and it hurt them to the point they had to go get Pence. Luckily Pence was there available and not on another team or hurt. So yeah they got Pence but again it didn’t happen until b4 the start of the season but only at the trading deadline.
As far as Reyes goes I am still of the belief that he will be resigned so I am not as worked up as some about life without him. If he indeed does not resign then I will react to it at that time based on how things happened.
The point being it takes 2 sides to agree and I am not going to hold it against Reyes if someone makes him an offer he can’t refuse that the Mets don’t match. I am not in the sign Reyes at all costs camp.
No MNJ I’m not suggesting they let werth go because of some notion they could get Pence…
But it should also be pointed out that Werth was nothing more than ROLE player on their team where Reyes is the heart and soul of ours!
Lots of players AS GOOD if not BETTER than Werth on the Phillies.
Not to many better than Reyes on the Mets!
The point about PEnce was yes they passed on STUPIDLY expensive contract!
Then went and got something EVEN BETTER to replace him!
I have not seen any notion presented by the “LET HIM GO” side that does that!
They are not saying lets get this guy instead.
All they are sayiong is they get draft picks!
And I agree the book isn’t closed on Reyes leaving yet!
But if Sandy is even considering it or on the fence seeing fans say every day, week, minute, Let him go sure isn’t helping!
Same fan pressure resulted in Jason Bay’s signing!
They all claim well any GM who listens to his fans is an idiot!
Yet they sure do their best to get him to do what they want don’t they?
“They are not saying lets get this guy instead.
All they are sayiong is they get draft picks!”
My discussion though is not about what “they” are saying. I am only talking about what you are saying and what I am saying.
Metsie I don’t think they’re going out and spending the Reyes money if he bolts on some other big name free agent IE Pujols,Fielder,CJ Wilson etc…
The Wilpons are crying poverty.The Citifield debt payments,the SNY debt payments,the 25 million they owe MLB for the loan and the whopping legal fees for the Bernie Madoff fiasco.
I seriously doubt they go in hard after their own free agent let alone go out and sign someone else.
I may be wrong and I soooo hope I am but I think they’re gonna make a half ass 4 year contract offer which they know Reyes will decline and go with Tejada at SS,hope Havens wins the 2B job out of ST,possibly trade Wright for prospects and go with a platoon of Murphy and Turner at 3B if Havens makes the team,an OF of Bay,CF???,Duda,the same Catching corp,maybe Nickeas instead of Paulino and Ike back at 1st if he’s healthy.
I think if Santana isn’t healthy that they’re going to wait until both Santana and Bay and off the books before they start spending again and during that time they will hope against hope that all those young arms develope into a formidable staff so they can build around it.
Now I’m not advocating this,I’m against this so before you start with your moneyball assumptions towards me this is not what I want them to do but I do think this is the way they’re going to go.
It has already been reported that Fred Tampon would rather take the PR hit for letting Reyes walk than signing him to a mega bucks long term deal.
Wilpon will do anything to keep from selling the team.He’ll even put another garbage product on the field over the next 2 years just to be able to keep the team.
Like I said I pray that I’m wrong but if Jose isn’t resigned and they don’t use that money or even some of that money to improve the team than I think my assumption will hold water.We shall see.
Well if your saying it’s ok to let Reyes go and not get something else to make up for it then we disagree!
Phillies let Werth go and then they went to get someone to replace and even SURPASS him as soon as one became available!
As JoeDiaz says after you…
There are no plans to do that if we let reyes go!
We are just going to be the Pirates!
And that is what I’m complaining about!
I have no idea what will happen with Reyes but I do know one thing if Reyes leaves I will be saddened but I will move on after that.
Reyes is a great ss but if he is gone he is gone. The Mets and many teams have won a W.S. with a Rafael Santana type player at ss there is no reason for me to believe the Mets can’t win a W.S. again with another Santana like SS.
Again so there is no confusion I am not advocating not resigning Reyes quite the contrary but I am for now still hopeful that his loss if indeed it comes to pass can be overcome.
“The Mets and many teams have won a W.S. with a Rafael Santana type player at ss there is no reason for me to believe the Mets can’t win a W.S. again with another Santana like SS.”
Ok I agree…
Where is your hernandez, Carter, Strawberry, Gooden, Darling, and Knight to get it done?
Whose your backman Dykstra?
It’s one thing to say you can win with a crappy SS but if the GOOD SS is all you have it really makes sense to keep him UNTIL you have the hernandez and strawberrys to make him expendable!
Metsie, you can be of the opinion that you have to have the hernandez, Carter, Strawberry, Gooden, Darling, and Knight’s 1st before a Reyes leaves if you want to believe that.
I on the other hand am not of the opinion the hernandez, Carter, Strawberry, Gooden, Darling, and Knight’s have to be their 1st before a Reyes leaves.
Comon MNJ don’t start doing what the others do.
The subject was WE CAN WIN with a guy like Rafael Santana!
And i responded not unless you have those guys already!
You let reyes go your not winning anything!
period!
“You let reyes go your not winning anything!”
Understood, I though don’t share those thoughts.
Oh and I must of misunderstood something cause I though I was replying to your question when you asked,
“Where is your hernandez, Carter, Strawberry, Gooden, Darling, and Knight to get it done?
Whose your backman Dykstra?”
I interpreted that as you saying the Mets needing those type players 1st so to then win with a Rafael Santana type ss.
Which is why I replied to that question the way I did when I said, “I on the other hand am not of the opinion the hernandez, Carter, Strawberry, Gooden, Darling, and Knight’s have to be their 1st before a Reyes leaves.”
Sorry I was not trying to avoid the topic.
Yes you missed something…
Can you win with Rafeal Santana as yyour SS with the team you have?
“Understood, I though don’t share those thoughts.”
So you think if Reyes goes we are going to be competitive next year, or the year after?
Really?
The question that you missed is this…
How long before you get those guys so you CAN win with a Santana?
5 years? 10 years?
You think Sandy will be here that long?
Exactly
I see you commented again before I replied to the 1st comment.
So to the question you asked of,
“So you think if Reyes goes we are going to be competitive next year, or the year after?
Really?”
My reply was exactly.
To the other question or rather 3 questions
,
“How long before you get those guys so you CAN win with a Santana?
5 years? 10 years?
You think Sandy will be here that long?”
I don’t know how but I know Alderson has no more than 5 years to show results. So no i am not of the opinion he will have 10 years. He will be gone in 5 to 6 if he can’t deliver.
SO you think we will be competitive next season…ok See you at the end of it and we will determine who was closer to correct!
And I don’t see Sandy getting 6 years…
Omar got 6 and he made the playoffs!
And I don’t see Sandy doing that without Reyes and Wright who is next on his hit list!
Metsie I said next year OR the year after.
The point is that I do not believe that the Mets fortunes are directly tied to Reyes.
“And I don’t see Sandy getting 6 years” “And I don’t see Sandy doing that without Reyes and Wright who is next on his hit list!”
I understand.
Well MNJ all I can say is if you think they can win without him isn’t it a slam dunk they can win MORE WITH HIM?
Is the act of playing a lesser SS making them BETTER? Please say how?
Metsie I am going to repeat what I have already said. I do not believe that the Mets fortunes are tied to Reyes. I do not subscribe that if he is not signed the Mets are doomed.
I do not know how but i have the belief that if it comes to pass that he is not resigned the Mets can overcome his loss.
I never said I knew how they would do it just that I hold the belief for now that it can be done.
Nothing would thrill me more than to see him resigned as he is one of only of handful of home grown Met All-Stars that I have been able to enjoy in my lifetime but if he is not I will move on.
I understand that you do not share similar thoughts and I can and do respect that.
Again Alex while you’re correct about Wright,you’re somehow forgetting that Reyes choked even more in 07 and 08.He was no where to be found in September.It’s amazing how you only see Wrights failures but not Reyes’.
Hmmm, I wonder why that is.
There were a host of others that choked too.Pretty much evryone in a Met uniform with the exception of Beltran in 08 who carried them down the stretch.Where was Jose? He was worse than Wright.
And just like Wright never gets a clutch hit, Reyes never steals a clutch base.
But you’d never hear about that.
That’s 100% correct agee.He steals his bags with a 5-1 lead to pad his stats but he never staels in the 9th down a run to get into scoring position.He also never lays down a bunt anymore to get on base which is his job,to get on base and coming into the 2011 season he had a career OB% of 334 which is poor for anywhere in the lineup but hideous for a leadoff hitter.He’ll drop a bunt to win a batting title though.
It took a Ty CVobb like season in 2011 for Reyes to get his career OB% over 340 fro 334,still not good for a leadoff hitter.Talking about Wright not being clutch which like I said,I agree with cause he hasn’t been a clutch hitter in 3 years but Reyes has been equally futile in at bats with the game on the line.
Somehow Alex has forgotten that Reyes started the season off 2 for 29 with RISP and he only struckout around 27 times in the first half but 6 of them were in the 9th inning with the tying or winning run in scoring position.That’s not very clutch for a 337 batting champion
Part of the reason why this team never takes a step forward is because their 2 home grown stars suck in the clutch.There are plenty of other reasons but if they played like the stars they supposed to be,they’d win a few more games.
I love the comments on FB on the WFAN page with the morons that follow the Yankees saying “there’s still baseball going on?
Proves they are not actually baseball fans, this is the best series in a LONG TIME
Good point Joe. The NYY do have some hardcore baseball fans but 80% of them or so are just riding around on the fringes of successful team. If they NYY ever take a tailspin they’ll be off baseball for good.
This is the best series I’ve seen since 1991.If tonights game comes down to late innings again you could make a case that it’s one of the best series ever.The entire 2011 Postseason has been phenominal.
Yeah Joe and going back to the last day of the regular season too.
Yeah it’s been unreal agee.
It’s been a terrifically enjoyable series. Truth on the baseball field is sometimes better than any fiction written about it. Some of the plays are Keystone Kops stuff though — lots of errors.
Please beat me over the head with a Citi Field cotton candy if I ever and I mean ever criticize the Mets bullpen ever again and I mean ever again. For the two BEST teams in the MLB to throw junk out there that they call bullpen pitchers is proof that in the off season there isn’t a heck of a lot we can do to imrove our pen. Let’s develop what we have. Also although it was an action packed game it was a slopy defensive game and Bobby V. put it right when he said something like poor decisions and errors sandwiched between excelence. What in the heck was the Ranger shortstop thinking when he had an easy third out on a force and he throws it to first for a fast runner and everyone is safe. The woerst decision was to walk Pujols to get to Berkman. Pujols was 1-4 and Berkman red hot. I would definitely have pitched to Pujols and was screaming at the tv when they did that. I just knew Berkman would get a hit. Although considered to be a great world series game if you look at the errors, poor rel,ief pitching and poor decision making I would classify it more as a spring training warmup for the regular season. Folks that don’t know a lot about baseball call it exciting becausw of all the home runs and lots of scoring.
You’re mostly right. It’s been real exciting, but not very good. I don’t agree with not walking Pujols, though. You have to. I know he’s had a terrible series and Berkman’s been hot, but outside of the bases being loaded, there’s no circumstance in which Pujols gets anything remotely close in that spot.
You play Blackjack? You know how you always play your hand assuming the dealer’s hiding a 10 or face card? Well, you play Pujols like he’s always going to get a hit. If that hit can sink you, he gets four wide ones, no matter who’s on deck.
Yeah I agree with walking Pujols. If you had to bet who is getting a hit, Pujols or Berkman? You have to assume Pujols will. The one time he get a chance to hit, he had a base hit on a pitch that was a ball. He’s a better hitter than Berkman, we all know that.
So at the end of the day while Berkman is hot, in that situation I’d rather force Berkman to beat me rather than allow Pujols too.
I’m going to let this slide but you know you did just say that a GOOD HITTER got a hit on a BALL somewhat! Good hitters can hit just about any pitch that is around the plate. Thats why they are good hitters!
I think taking Feliz out was. You have the lead in the possible last game of series and you take out your closer. Being worried about game 7 should not be in your thought, Motte pitched 2 innings. And I would have put a defensive player for Cruz.
Meh. You can say that now after he botched the ball at the wall, but Cruz is a good defensive player and has a great bat. It would have been a real tough and gutsy call to replace him. I don’t think anyone would have seriously considered it.
No, I was thinking of it before inning started as he had Gentry to use.
He never replaces Cruz for defensive purposes,he’s a really good rightfielder with one of the strongest and accurate arms in the sport.He just got gunshy from the wall on the last out of the WS.
He’s made great plays in RF all year long I can’t believe the most important out of his life and he was afraid to crash into the wall.
He looked like Bobby Abreu.
I was watching and here are a few things that ran through my mind
-I’m gonna go walk the dog while Texas bats in the 9th so I can probably watch them celebrate or watch a comeback
-Neftali cannot throw a strike
-The Cardinas bench was actually smiling and laughing down 2 runs in elimination game with 2 outs because they knew Neftali was handing them this game
-Craig looked at a pitch he could and should have driven
-Nice defense Nelson Cruz. (sarcasm)
-No way Cards lose this game now. Yadier is gonna win it right here
-Oops
-Pitching Holland in relief is gonna bite Wash in the butt
-Josh Hamilton just won Texas the World Series. Start writing the movie script of this man’s life
-Is it really midnight? Man… this is ridiculous that these games go past midnight.
-Darren Oliver… wait, really? What is Wash trying to just prove a point and give the old man a save in the winning game?
-Hell of a bunt by Lohse. See (reasons why I love NL over AL)
-Berkman cannot be stopped in 2011.
-This could get ugly for Texas is this goes much deeper.
-Goodnight David Freese.
If you had your pick and you got to say “hey Carp go win us a world series” or “hey… matt… harrison. Go win us a… you know what just get us to the 5th”
I mean don’t get me wrong Texas can def. win, but huge momentum for Carp and I’m hoping STL takes this thing.
My thought was: Why is Washington taking Feliz out. This is his game to win. He is playing to lose with anyone else he brings in after that. And why did Cruz not get to wall, he was close to begin with. Endy would have caught it!!!
Metstheory: I agree. You don’t shy away from your best reliever for Darren Oliver with the game on the line. Granted, Felix struggled but taking him out in a situation that he is used to being in, is showing you don’t trust him with a 2 run lead but you trust Darren Oliver?
He did throw 22 pitches and was not sharp at all,I can’t 2nd guess taking Feliz out,maybe bringing in Oliver can be 2nd guessed but they had 2 LH coming up.Once a closer gives it up it’s usually the right thing to do unless it’s Mariano we’re talking about.
Cruz was playing right near the warning track,it was not an easy play but a play that a major leaguer should make.How do you get gunshy from the wall when it’s the final out of the WS?