OB is dependent on RBI is it not?
Can an OB score a run without an RBI?
NO!

Unless it is also a HR!
Again the guy who got the RBI did the work not the part that touched 1st base!

You keep ignoring WHO gets the stat is significant here!
RBI is awarded to the guy who got the job done not the guy who DEPENDED on him to get driven in!

He only got the RS!
RS is awarded to show something about his production led to him scoring!
RBI is to show that something about his production SCORED one of those guys!

You know you have to have a PA to score a run too!
Does PA Correlate to RS as well as OB does?
HAS to happen to score! You can not score without first getting into the batter box!

Is getting into the batters box more the KEY to scoring more runs?
What if the guy has a ton of PA and makes outs?

But yet it’s pretty much the same reasoning you use to say OB is significant…Because you HAVE to do it before the result can happen!

I suppose WAKING UP also correlateds well to RS!
The guy had to wake up in order to get to the park so he could score a run. How about getting to the park Correlates to scoring runs while we are at it! You can score a run unless you get to the park!

All of these things seem to have the SAME correlation as OBP does!
Are UNRELATED to scoring runs in any MEANINGFUL WAY
Related to RS as much as OB does because not all appearances at the park lead to an RS but it had to happen before an RS could be achieved!

So basically what you did was take an UNRELATED occurance that happens in EVERY RS Instance and made it significant without ever proving it’s actual significance to RS!

You have never showed the mathematical equation to prove OBP has ANYTHING to do with RS!
How mush OBP+SLG is required to score ONE RUN!

If you can’t say then you can’t prove ANY leads to RS!
All you have proved is that in the proccess of scoring runs you ALSO add to OB and SLG!
Just as you add to Park and plate appearances!

And whats worse they can’t even say what the correlation is!
Like saying running correlates to RS because you also have to run to score one!

But no RELATION is ever made!

Or better 300% correlates to 100 without ever saying how!

Backtrack all you want but you BOTH just admitted you look at the OBP and then ignored it based on other things!

A FAR CRY from what you both said you would so before the example was given!

It is a GREAT example if you two ACTUALLY DO what you say is BEST for everyone else to do!

Just not you!

Thank you for finally admitting that NOT EVEN YOU pays attention to the OBP you just say you do so everyone else will get the wrong answer!

SO OBP is NOT the most important stat to RS when YOU actually look at the player to get!

99% of the time a run scores and RBI is awarded. Did the RBI drive in the run? Of course not, it was the hit, the bases loaded walk, SAC fly or error.

100% of the time an RBI is awarded a run has scored. Did the RBI score the run? Of course not, the hit, walk, HBP or anything else that kept the inning alive scored the run.

RBI only count the number of times a hitter drives in the run. RBI doesn’t even measure what percentage of runs a hitter drives in. RBI doesn’t cause the run to score it just culmatively totals them.

If you had 10 warts on your arse would it be because you counted them?

You simply cannot plug a guy into a different lineup and expect the same results. The numbers are partly a function of the hitters in front of them, and behind them.

Like I said more hits and walks in front of you will increase your RBI’s simply because you have more opportunities to increase them. More hits and walks behind you will increase your runs scored because the guys behind you have more opportunities. Increasing you own hits and walks as well will take your lineup to a whole ‘nother level.

As always the answer to how do you score more runs? is more hits and walks.

Simple.

Is every hit a double?

That the difference in OBP was more than made up for in over all abilities, age and position?

Yep are they same when the hit isn’t a HR?
a Double is the same as an OB. is every OB the same as a double?
Is every OB a HIT?
Every Hit is an OB!

Every red apple is an apple…But not every apple is red!

this is the problem you seem to have!
LUMPING a bunch of crap into a bin and calling it something doesn’t increase the importance or serve as a good baraometer of what is important to getting what your looking for…

You want a Porsche, will you get one if all you look for are CARS?

After all 10% of cars are porches!
While your busy looking at the 90% of crap you DO NOT WANT someone else who looked only at Porches got the best one out from under you!

If OBP is 80% Hits then why does the guy with FEWER hits have a higher OBP?
Why does the guy with Higher OBP have less RS? It’s ket to scoring runs no? Why didn’t it work?
Why does the guy with lower OBP have more RBI?
What is the stat that tells you Kemp was the right pick?

What are the TWO key stats that show the difference? SLG?
Or is it the RBI and the BA that shows without a doubt that the HIGHER ACCOMPLISHED (HITTER) produced more than the guy who got on base more?
The LOWER BA Higher OBP guy would have been the wrong answer!

So it is a PERFECT example to show WHY looking at BA over OBP is a much better way to go! because Kemps OBP is above his BA as expected. And Berkman’s OBP says he is really good at scoring runs yet scored less than Kemp did!

So you keep hoping to find RED APPLES in a sea of Apples and hoping the average percentage of RED APPLES (80% according to you) will get you more if you just look for Apples but in my way all I get are RED APPLES because I look at the stat that OBP Includes but HIDES with extra garbage!
I look for the ACT not a result!
I look for Hits and you look for the RESULTS of hits! Which has a 20% chance of misidentifying those events as hits!

You took a guy who would get on 10 more times than the other according to OBP yet actually did it by walking 20 more times in fewer at bats! Project those numbers forward to equal PA you still can’t project how many more runs he would have had or rbi he would have achieved!
All you would know is he walked a HELL of a lot which only drives in runs with the bases loaded!

And because of that LYING HIGH OBP number his OPS says he is way more productive than Kemp…

Was He?

Congrats you did get the right answer!
But only because you IGNORED what the OBP/OPS said!
And that really is all that I need to show here isn’t it?

That HR is also a hit isn’t it?

Then why isn’t BA and OB credited with producing that RBI?

.13 points is OB equal about 10 extra times on OB for Berkman, extroperlated over a whole season but one of the reasons I would chose Kemp is his very high OB himself.

Poor example to try to “prove” what I think it is your trying to.

Don’t forget Metsie, OB is hits, 80% of it anyway.

Who would you rather have at the same price?

Matt Kemp .399 OBP, or Lance Berkman .412 OBP?

Who is going to give you more runs?
Who is going to create MORE RS?
WHO is the better player to have?

Tell me you want Berkman and why!

SHOW US EXAMPLES where RBI = RS Exactly!

If not you didn’t prove a thing!
Yes they are RELATED!
Thats the POINT!

RBI RELATES TO RS!
OB DOES NOT!

If you think it does show us the math that proves their relation!
If you can’t you fail!

Anything else is just hot air!
SHOW THE MATH!

And Donal you think whatever you want to think about me because NO ONE on this site respects your opinion or believes there is a shred of intelligence in anything you say other than WHO who is actually (I thought it quite impossible) dumber than you are!

I guess breathing causes Divorce too!

Do you pay people to write this gibberish you post or do you come up with new ways to look dumb all by yourself?

He’s bound and determined to not recognize what an RBI actually is. Preferring instead treat an RBI as if it was a sacrosacent being who decended from the heavens in order to annoint someone with a run.

An RBI is nothing more than an ordinary hit, walk or HBP with the bases loaded, a SAC fly, or a fielders choice that scores a run. That’s it.

An RBI is produced by one of the above, not the other way around.

I have never seen someone so in love with a stat as Metsie is with RBI. So in love with the stat that he is blinded as to what the stat is all about. As if it were some mystical being of some sort.

90% of the time a run scores that run got OB by a hit or walk. 90% of the time that run was driven in by a hit or a walk.

What else do you need to know to prove correlation? The exceptions? The 7.5% of the time that a run is driven in by SAC fly? The 2.5% of the time a run scores on a fielders choice? The 15-20% of the time a runs scored is also an RBI for the same person (HR) Well guess what? That a hit too.

Ask anyone, would you rather score a run by a SAC fly, a ground out or a hit? Of course you would rather drive the run in with a hit. Why? Cause now you have another guy on and one less out. Much better situation by far.

Metsie would rather misconstrue the entire event by bowing at the alter of a false phrophet because 10% of runs are not driven in by a hit or walk. What a laugh.

Forget about the 90%, go concern yourself only with the 10%. That’ll answer all your questions.

OB is responsible for scoring the run and OB is responsible for driving in the run 90% of the time.

Case closed.