Oct
31
2011
31
2011
Alderson on Reyes, Wright, 2012 Season
An article by Hojo's Mojo
This from Adam Rubin:
So Reyes will in fact go into free agency with nary an offer from the Mets confirming an earlier report to that effect from Adam Rubin and Andy Martino.
The Wright thing sounds about right.
Looking forward to seeing what he means by not punting in 2012. Fielder? Wilson? Big trade?
About the Author: Rob Johnson
89 Comments + Add Comment
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It means he isn’t going to punt he will GO FOR IT and call an off tackle run play on 4th and 30!
I BELIEVE HE MEANS THEY AREN’T GOING TO SURRENDER THE “BALL” aka THE ENTIRE SEASON BY JETTISONING EVERYONE OF VALUE(WRIGHT)
AS HE’S ALREADY ON “RECORD” STATING THE REYES ALLOCATION IF UNUSED ON REYES WILL NOT BE TRANSFERRED TO OTHER PURSUITS I BELIEVE IT’S TRANSLATED AS THERE IS ONLY ONE TOP SHELF PLAYER ON THE SHOPPING LIST & THAT’S REYES!
No preemptive offer coming to avoid free agency. That’s what any business person would do to avoid bidding against the initial offer. It’s common sense when you’re spending your own money.
Sorry Des but all you have done by not making an offer is now you will be bidding against the first 10 offers he gets because they can now MAKE those offers where if he made an offer right now Reyes could say OK thats good and no further bidding is made!
By making an offer you at least have a shot that Reyes says OK thats enough and signs.
Now you are going to have to beat that offer he never would have gotten so whatever you think you saved was lost right after the first bid was made by someone else!
Even if it was a lowball offer at least the first team after us to bid would more likely only raise the bar slightly to beat our offer.
Instead now they might be tempted to make an even higher offer than they would have before!
There is no plus or minus to making an offer while exclusivity is there!
It is expected to be low and if the player doesn’t take it then your no worse off than you are now! In fact you know at least how much WON’T get him is!
but, the only way you can avoid him still getting other offers is to make a huge one, but contingent on signing before the window expires.
There is really no difference between telling him to shop around and get back to the Mets and giving him a reasonable offer (5/90? you decide), that his agent immediately makes the floor bid.
so unless that offer is going to make everyone else drop out, he is still going to test the market.
And no way I ever thought the Mets were going to make a take it or leave it before open season offer.
There’s a HUGE difference between telling him to go shop around and telling him you get back to us….and calling the guy and his agent personally and meeting them to tell them you would like him to be part of the future, let’s start at a figure and see where it goes…
The Yankees and CC seemed to both want to get things done fast and they did.
Not so with Alderson. His cold calculated, half-hearted gesture masked as an attempt to reach Reyes is gonna cost him. Big time.
Cold, calculated, half-hearted gesture????????
Wow, what drama school have you attended. Seriously, some of you are sounding like bitter little children now.
Just because you read gossip columns and post on a blog does not mean you really know what is going on behind closed doors.
NY Mets are not, have not ever been and never will be the NY Yankees, and if that’s what you all keep comparing them to well than, I’m sure there is room on that bandwagon.
The only thing they have in common is they are both within the 5 boroughs……….
“NY Mets are not, have not ever been and never will be the NY Yankees”
And why is that? Because they don’t spend to keep their best players like the Yankees do!
What do they have in common?
The SAME ABILTY to draw people and make as much money as them if only they go get the GOOD players who draw people and WIN games!
Open lines of communication as a way of doing business is not exclusive to one team.
Well maybe it’s exclusive only to teams and people who KNOW HOW TO DO BUSINESS.
Something you are evidently not familiar with.
You pretend that you know what is going on, reality is, YOU DO NOT!!!! You assume and well you know what they say………
Yet your willing to say he is wrong when he has just as much a shot at being correct in an UNKNOWN situation?
You don’t need to know a lot of facts to know that if you don’t have discussions there can be no negotiation!
That is just so wrong Any!
The only way to avoid him still getting other offers is to sign him.
How good the offer is doesn’t really matter provided your talking to him and finding out how much he wants to NOT test the market!
What that number is doesn’t matter and doesn’t have to be any higher than what you want to pay!
And then if Reyes takes someone else’s offer then Reyes left on his own you didn;t PUSH him away!
Your FORCING him to go get other offers your way. My way he has a choice. And sometimes they TAKE that choice (look at CC extending).
If you don’t lowball the guy too much you might find that the number you offer is ENOUGH for Reyes to say thats fine I really want to play in NY and the money they offered is enough to stay!
With exclusivity YOU set the price you offer. What you propose allows everyone else to set the price and that price may be more than Reyes would have accepted from us if we just showed some interest!
Our offer does not have to be stupid rich just not stupid low!
And if he doesn’t accept it at least it would be up to Reyes then to set his asking price in a counter offer, and then you go from there!
Stop worrying so much about what OTHERS will do because it’s not about what they do but what will REYES do and for how much!
Thats what these negotiations are all about!
You miss the point that Reyes isn’t going to just take a Mets offer unless he’s blown away. The more bidders, the higher the potential signing value. You would potentially short-change yourself by just grabbing the first offer thrown your way. You find out what others could be offering. If Sandy was to give what they feel is a fair offer, only to have 2 other teams come in with something 50% higher, they’ll look like chumps and lose a shot at re-signing him before they even get to put forth a 2nd offer.
And you miss the point that not making Reyes an offer really leaves him NO CHOICE but to take other offers!
Reyes says he wants to stay in NY!
You don’t even want to test that by giving him an offer he can turn down?
Let the decision to go get other offers REYES’ choice!
Give him an offer you think is fair, he may not accept but at least you give him something he CAN turn down as not enough and then if he takes another offer no one can say well you didn’t even try!
If Reyes doesn’t get an offer from us and leaves then the old “Well he wanted too much to stay” won’t be an acceptable excuse for his leaving!
Because you never even bothered to find out how much he would accept BEFORE the rest of the league started throwing money at him.
Money he may not have needed to stay if you just made an offer and went from there!
I’ll disagree, but refrain from arguing semantics.
From what I’m reading the FO did ask Reyes’ agent what kind of offer it would take to keep him here. Reyes’ agent did not respond.
Kind of hard to communicate when only one side is doing the talking.
Yeah in July when Reyes said he would not negotiate while the season was playing out. He said that last offseason when Sandy rebuffed all attempts to negotiate an extention!
So, it is bad when one party wants to negotiate when it is best for them but good when the other party sets the same terms?
Reyes was rebuffed by Sandy before Sandy was rebuffed by Reyes!
And YES it makes perfect sense when your trying to hit and win baseball games to not be distracted by the negotiation proccess!
Point is why is it not best for Sandy to negotiate now when NO ONE ELSE can bid on Reyes and drive the price up?
Isn’t this the PERFECT TIME for both to negotiate?
“Reyes was rebuffed by Sandy before Sandy was rebuffed by Reyes!”
So what? When you get older, you’ll learn that “he did it first” is not an excuse.
The reality is both parties want to be in a position of power for the negotiations.
“And YES it makes perfect sense when your trying to hit and win baseball games to not be distracted by the negotiation proccess!”
Which is why players have agents. Reyes told his agent not to negotiate during the season. He let it drag on and distract you.
“Point is why is it not best for Sandy to negotiate now when NO ONE ELSE can bid on Reyes and drive the price up?”
Because if Reyes has no intention of resigning before hitting the market (like he said), you just gave him a starting point for all your competition.
“Isn’t this the PERFECT TIME for both to negotiate?”
Maybe. Maybe not. If Reyes has no intention of listening to anything but an A-Rod offer before hitting the open market, why waste your breath and look desperate?
Yeah and when you get older you might reach puberty!
The reality is that right now NEITHER SIDE HAS THE POWER!
They are both o EQUAL FOOTING!
Sandy can make an offer no one else can match until reyes rejects it!
And if it’s a good enough offer and Reyes really wants to stay in NY he might NOT reject it if he had something to consider!
Without an offer there is nothing for Reyes TO REJECT or ACCEPT!
If someone has something you want you have to NEGOTIATE to get it!
Not Negotiating means no way TO get it!
Which is precisely what you and Sandy want!
To EXILE Reyes and try to blame him for not accepting an offer you never made!
Ever post anything on this board besides word vomit?
“Yeah and when you get older you might reach puberty!”
You are just so bad at this. Stop.
“The reality is that right now NEITHER SIDE HAS THE POWER!
They are both o EQUAL FOOTING!
Sandy can make an offer no one else can match until reyes rejects it!”
Which means Reyes has the power, since he’s under no obligation to even hear the offer.
“And if it’s a good enough offer and Reyes really wants to stay in NY he might NOT reject it if he had something to consider!”
Or, he can see what other teams are offering and have Alderson beat those. Or, he can always choose to resign at any point.
“If someone has something you want you have to NEGOTIATE to get it!
Not Negotiating means no way TO get it!”
Does that also apply to Reyes not negotiating during the season?
“Does that also apply to Reyes not negotiating during the season?”
Nope because he was busy trying to WIN GAMES, Whats Sandy’s excuse for not talking now?
What is he busy doing?
Busy not negotiating with the players he has exclusive rights to?
Head deep in Excel?
Got a hot date?
Or looking for a place to hide for when Reyes leaves because we made NO OFFER?
Sorry sonny we know why Sandy isn’t negotiating…
We know WHY he waited until the time when Reyes said he did not want to negotiate because he was focusing on the season…And why he refused to negotiate at times when Reyes was not too busy playing baseball!
Sandy only wants to negotiate with Reyes when Reyes has the greatest chance of saying no!
Because he doesn’t want reyes!
Doesn’t fit his MONEYBALL way of thinking!
Yours either!
“Nope because he was busy trying to WIN GAMES”
Which is why players hire agents. Reyes chose not to let his agent negotiate during the season.
Again, the double standard is so clear.
It’s not about what is factual or what is best for the Mets. It is about attacking the FO because they were emntioend in a book you’ll neither read nor understand.
And can an agent agree to terms without talking to the player?
NO!
So the Agent would still have to distract Reyes every 5 minutes and have regular meetings to discuss the latest updates on what he wants and what we are offerring!
He doesn’t have to distract him every 5 minutes. He can talk to him once a day to let him know of any developments. Guys talk to their agents regularly, especially when said agent is the godfather of your child.
And stop the with the “distraction” crap. It was a constant topic of discussion. How could it not be on his mind either way?
No just 30 minutes once a day to update him on the Day’s events!
Bottomline is your admitting what I said was right!
REYES MUST BE DISTRACTED from his IN GAME FOCUS to negotiate even WITH an Agent!
Your point that he didn’t is WRONG!
Admit it and move onto some other excuse for Sandy!
“No just 30 minutes once a day to update him on the Day’s events!”
24 hours in a day. He can finish that call before breakfast.
“Bottomline is your admitting what I said was right!
REYES MUST BE DISTRACTED from his IN GAME FOCUS to negotiate even WITH an Agent!”
He could have taken care of it at any point. He decided to keep the media circus going.
You mean that breakfast where he should be looking at the Pitcher’s charts for tendencies and the lineup charts on where to position himself on the field for each batter?
No…Not a distraction at all!!
Silly runt!
HAHAHAHA! Ya, that’s it. 24 hours of his day are about tonight’s game. He’s not meeting his agent and other people publicity appearances and promotional deals and other such stuff that has nothing to do with the game that night.
It should be what ANY guy who gets paid 10 Mil to play the game of baseball should be doing at breakfast!
Should be what every manager nd Pitcher is doing as well!
If you think they shouldn’t then I guess thats pretty much says it all about who I am trying to reason with here!
How? By sending a 3rd party text?
This is nothing but speculation on all parties. No one knows, nor probably will. We have to take them at their word at this point, which I know will drive people insane.
Maybe if Sandy would make an offer Reyes could decline we would not have to speculate we would know what number is not enough to get him before everyone else bids him up and tell us how much we have to SPEND on the guy you all think Sandy is going to replace him with…
Oh I forgot you guys expect him to replace Reyes with two 1st round picks in 2015….
NEWFLASH! Sandy won’t be here in 2015 if he lets Reyes go!
So Sandy won’t be replacing Reyes when that year comes!
METSIE, MY FRIEND BY MAKING THIS COMMENT,…
“NEWFLASH! Sandy won’t be here in 2015 if he lets Reyes go!
So Sandy won’t be replacing Reyes when that year comes!”
YOU MAKE ME BELIEVE YOU’VE BECOME DILLUSIONAL AS IF WINNING OR LOSING HAD ANY PLACE IN THE WILPON PERSONEL DECISIONS. HOW SILLY OF U! IF ALDERSON DRAWS THE FAN’S IRE IN LIEU OF FRED,JEFF HE’S DONE HIS JOB FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE! IT IS VERY,VERY IMPORTANT THAT NO ONE RENEW THEIR SEASON TICKETS UNTIL AFTER REYES RE-UPS; IF THE WILPONS ARE HOLDING AN EMPTY STADIUM BY THE WINTER MEETINGS TYHEY’LL GET THE MESSAGE THE CLEAREST!
No Metsie, just look at history with the Wilpons!
They have never had a problem spending nor have they had a problem doing whatever the current GM said he wanted to do!
But the one thing they have ALWAYS been consistent on is the second the fans and media get on a GM they get rid of him toot sweet!
By 2015 if Sandy has not won a division or made a playoff the Media lovefest will say time for a new GM and Sandy failed and Wilpon who cares more about what people say about him that what he is doing will give them their pound of flesh!
The only winning and losing Wilpon cares about is the Public relations battle!
And if we have not won something by 2015 then to win the Wilpons will be happy to give the fans and the media the pound of flesh they wanted!
They did not WANT to fire Omar they did it because the fans and Press demanded his firing!
They even wanted him to be hired by Sandy!
So What I’m saying has nothing to do with how the Wilpons will feel it is about how the media and fans will feel which will push the Wilpons to fire him just so they can say HEY we gave you what you wanted we are not the bad guys here!
They have done multiple times and for every firing since Cashen retired!
Don’t blame Alderson for not wining and dining Reyes like all the other teams are about to do. That isn’t in our budget. Blame the Wilpons.
4 people at a nice place in NYC? $400.00 but probably even less.
And if can help keep Reyes here? I’LL PAY FOR IT so i’m sure Sandy could foot the bill or add it to the expense report if he chooses.
No I blame Sandy for not doing anything to put people in the seats last year to FIX the budget!
He could have used some of the Millions he spent on Young and the 25K he spent on Emaus to not only Take Reyes to dinner but buy him a car!!!
Give it a rest already, you keep regurgitating the same crap that is wrong.
How dishonest of you.
Yeah prove what I said was wrong and stop regurgitating the same YOUR WRONG with no proof that the guys who want Reyes to leave are using!
His JOB is to make a team that people want to go see!
Not a team that doesn’t cost the Wilpons much money!
If he can do both thats fine!
But he didn’t!
“Yeah prove what I said was wrong”
No. Prove it right. That is how adult discussions work.
Ok slappy here is my proof…
ATTENDANCE DECLINED IN 2011!
YOU LOSE!
Now this is where you make an ADULT discussion and prove he DID INCREASE attendance!
Care to try?
Or will go back to sucking your thumb as you were because you said Reyes didn’t need to be distracted at all during the season to negotiate because he had an agent who HAD to distract him to negotiate?
Attendance declined because of the failure of the last few years. Not his fault.
No attendance declined because Sandy’s biggest signing was two guys coming off injury, one of which played all of 4 games before he was injured again!
Oh so you don’t think players do those things?
No wonder you don’t want to pay a lot you are happy with guys doing NO PREP for the game just show up and get OB!
Metsie,
In my view, there was no way Reyes’ agent was going to take the first Mets offer. There are almost 30 teams who might better the offer. It’s the agent’s fiduciary obligation to get Reyes the ‘best’ offer possible. It also avoids any chance of Reyes suing later because word leaked out that Team X was going to go up to 20% or so higher. It’s a common legal practice by lawyers to protect themselves.
And now we will never know because there IS no first offer!
If one was made you have half a shot at saying Reyes just wanted to much!
Now you don’t know what he would have accepted!
You know what you accomplished by not making an offer?
Gave someone else first crack at Reyes, thats all!
You didn’t save yourself any money because no you can’t get Reyes to agree to a lesser bid your forced to outbid!
You accomplished nothing!
If you make a bid maybe Reyes actually loves it enough to stay for the low number…
You have a view but don’t even want to find out if it’s correct?
What do you lose by making an offer? NOTHING!
If he’s going to get more money he’s going to get it no matter what you offer!
So make an offer and hope he says thats enough for me to stay!
METSIE, DID U REALLY THINK AFTER WAITING THIS LONG REYES OR HIS AGENTS WOULD CHOOSE TO JUMP @ THE METS’ FIRST OFFER EVEN IF IT EXCEEDED CRAWFORD’S BECAUSE THAT JUST ISN’T HUMAN NATURE IN A COMPETITIVE CAPITALISTIC WORLD; BY THE SOUNDS OF ALDERSON’S REITERATIONS ON HIS FIRST MEETING WITH GOLDSMITH OVER REYES, IT WENT SOMETHING LIKE THIS…
SA: IS THERE ANY NUMBER FOR WHICH JOSE WILL AGREE TO TODAY?
GOLD..: NOT ONE I’M PREPARED TO PUT OUT THERE RIGHT NOW.
SA: HOW ABOUT # OF YRS?
GOLD: NO, NOT NOW.
SA: WELL U DO WHAT U NEED TO & I’M SURE WE’LL TALK AGAIN WITH REAL NUMBERS.
GOLD: OK SANDY, TALK TO U THEN.
SO, METSIE LET’S PRESUME IT WENT DIFFERENTLY WITH SANDY LEAVING THEM WITH AN INITIAL OFFER. GOLDSMITH’S THEN GOING TO USE THAT TO MEASURE ALL OTHERS AGAINST, WHILE, OF COURSE, IT WILL BE EXCEEDED BY THE NEXT ONE FROM ELSEWHERE, MEANING OUR NEXT MOVE(HIS 3rd OFFER) IS EXCEEDING OUR FIRST + THE NEXT AND SO ON.
AS IT IS, HIS NEXT OFFER FROM ELSEWHERE WILL BE HIS FIRST ONE, FOR US TO EXCEED AS POSITION #2 NOT #3 PERHAPS HIS FIRST OFFER IS A LOWBALL FROM FL OR DC WHICH GIVES HIM AN INCLING; THEN WE HAVE AN OPORTUNMITY TO TOP IT MORE IMPRESSIVELY
METSIE, I WILL AGREE THAT THESE OP-ED PIECES FROM SOCALLED “EXPERTS” & “UNNAMED INTERNAL NYM SOURCES ARE UNSETTLING AND I’D ALSO ADMIT I’D BE MORE SETTLED HAD IT BEEN REPORTED ALDERSON’S PARTING WORDS TO GOLDSMITH WERE MORE LIKE, “AT LEAST GIVE ME THE COURTESY OF GUARANTEEING JOSE DOESN’T SIGN ANYWHERE WITHOUT GIVING US THE OPORTUNITY TO GO HIGHER…
METSUIE, IT’S LIKE THE GAME OF LEAPGROG WHEN THERE’S A CLIFF BEFORE U, IT;S IMPORTANT TO MEASURE YOUR JUMPS CAREFULLY, NOT BEING FIRST TO JUMP FEWER JUMPS ARE BETTER.
NOW, I PERSONALLY TAKE SOME COMFORT IN THE FACT THAT WHILE REYES, ON THE FIELD, IS A SHOWMAN, HIS OFF FIELD PERSONA HAS BEEN NON-PASGE 6 MATERIAL. YOU MAY RECALL THAT AFTER HIS FIRST BIG PAYDAY CONTRACT 5 YRS AGO, HIS PERSONAL EXTRAVAGENCE WAS “LUGGAGE” NO LAMBO OR FERRARI HE CULD EASILY HAVE AFFORDED; BUT VERY LOW KEY, MODEST AS I DO NOT PERSONALLY BELIEVE JOSE IS A MERC, PREPARED TO CASH IN ANYWHERE. I BELIEVE HE’D MUCH PREFER TO RETURN NEXT SEASON AS A LEGENDARY HERO IN FLUSHING THAN AS THE FLUSHING VILLAGE VILLAIN VIEWED AS A MERCENARY GETTING THE TREATMENT HE SAW BELTRAN GET FOR 7 YRS IN HOUSTON. THIS ISN’T AN ARMOR SKINNED RICKEY TYPE WE’RE DEALING WITH, BUTY A KID CLOSER TO TEARS WHEN BOOEDE THAM INCENSED WITH INDIGNATION. THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER HE’S NEVER GOTTEN THE CREDIT DESERVED FOR PLACING TYHE TEAM’S DESIRES OVER HIS OWN BE IT RESTRUCTURING HIS RUNNING STYLE OR FOOLISHLY SWITCHING TO 2B FOR A MUCH LESS TALENTED PLAYER(MATSUI)
EVERY ONE OF THOSE EXAMPLES BODES FOR A DESIRE TO RETURN IN TRIUMPH NOT WITH BULGING POCKETS
JOSE DIDN’T SPURN BORAS FOR YEARS BECAUSE HE VALUED MONEY OVER LOYALTY. NO, HE REMAINED LOYAL TO HIS REPRESENTATION DESPITE NOT GETTING MAXIMUM COMPENSATION IN HIS LAST DEAL. IF IT WALKS LIKE A DUCK… OR ACTS LIKE A MENSCH…
LoL METS62FAN, I loved your LEAPFROG analogy.
62 – What is making an offer hurting?
What is making an offer costing you?
Make an offer – he might now accept
don’t make an offer – what did you save?
If you believe he was going to look for other offers anyway then you didn’t lose a thing by making an offer! You didn’t RAISE his price ONE PENNY!
I just wish EVERYONE would stop talking about what they BELIEVE Reyes will,was,destined to do
And tell me WHAT DID WE GAIN by not making an offer?
I know what we lost already. The possibility (slim as you want to BELIEVE it was) he could accept it and not force us to outbid!
There is only ONE other reason to NOT make an offer…
You don’t want him at all and if you made your offer everyone would see you don’t really want the guy because your offer was not a serious one!
The only thing Sandy gained is maintained secrecy on his total lack of interest in keeping Reyes!
All the rest that you guys keep mentioneing will happen if we made one is going to happen anyway!
And if you think Sandy is going to come in after the 4 other teams who seem interested have HAD the bidding war for Reyes and then him to come here cheaper thenb why not make a good offer now and save yourself 3-6 mil per?
METSIE, ALL TRUE(SOMEWHAT) HOWEVER U RISK HIS RESPONSE BEING..,IS THAT ALL THEY THINK I’M WORTH? AND HIS SIGNING THE NEXT BIG OFFER HE GETS…
MORE THAN LIKELY THIS WAS A VALID GAMBLE THAT HE ISN’T LIKELY TO INK THE FIST OFFER REGARDLESS OF SIZE, WHY SHOULD HE? ISN’T IT LOGICAL, WITH ALL THE TEAMS SUPPOSEDLY INTERESTED, THAT THE SECOND OFFER REGARDLESS OF WHICH TEAM WILL BE LARGER & BETTER THAN THE FIRST?
METSIE, WHAT IF NO TEAM IS WILLING TO EXCEED THE INDSURANCE COVERAGE LIMIT OF 3 YRS? AND THAT’S HIS FIRST OFFER. WHEREBY IF U SIT IN THE WEEDS UNTIL THEY GET VERY CLOSE TO YOUR LIMIT U CAN POTENTIALLY SWOOP IN WITH A VERY COMPETITIVE,”CLOSE” OFFER, HIS EMOTIONS WILL REWARD U FOR
FOR EXAMPLE, GNATS MAKE THE FIRST INITIAL OFFER SAY OF 3Y,75M; THAT’S COUNTERED IN A PHONE CALL FROM MILWALKEE BY 4Y/100M, PHILLY CHIMES IN WITH 4Y/120M; ALDERSON HEARS REYES IS GETTING ANTSY WITH THE TIME OF THE PROCESS FINALLY CALLING IN HIS 4Y +1OPTION OFFER @ A TOTAL OF 110M. REYES LIKE CLIFF LEE CAN BECOME A HERO OF EPIC PROPORTIONS & HIS AGENTS KNOW THAT, CERTAINLY, TAKING NYM OFFER IS MINIMAL OVERALL LOSS IN LIGHT OF ADDITIONAL LOCAL SPONSOR INCREASE FOR “THE HEROICLY LOYAL” BATTLING CHAMP
BTW TRY THIS SCENERIO WITH US MAKING THE FIRST TENTATIVE INITIAL OFFER, IT ISN’T PRETTY AS TYPICALLY, UNLESS THE FIRST OFFER IS A RECORD SETTER, IT RARELY SEALS THE DEAL ON A TOP FREE AGENT NON-PITCHER.
That depends on HOW you make the offer!
As I posted in another thread:
“Initial impressions will significantly impact the outcome so plan opening words and styles of approach very carefully”
If you make the offer and make it in a way that says this is what we can afford right now how far apart are we?
The player will not get the impression your trying to insult him just doing your job.
By not making an offer at all the player is WAY more likely to assume you don’t want him because your offer was lower than a Pizza!
It was NOTHING! I offer NOTHING says I don’t want you way more than an offer that is low compared to what the player thinks he is worth!
METSIE, U SEEM TO BE ASSUMING REYES WILL HEAR THE OFFER FIRSTHAND & NOT AS RECOUNTED BY HIS AGENT WITH HIS AGENT DOING THE INTONATIONS & EXPLANATIONS… WHEN ALL IS SAID & DONE FORGET THE BODY LANGUAGE CRAP & THE UNSPOKEN COMMUNICATION DERIVATIVES ALL U CAN GUARANTEE BEING COMMUNICATED TO THE PLAYER IS THE $$$ & YRS
Well you can’t insult the agent!
Reyes can be a part of the discussion if they wanted him to be.
Sabathia was!
Point is you make the offer and if it isn’t good enough you lost nothing you wouldn’t have lost by making NO OFFER at all!
No offer says insult much more than a lowball offer!
And as long they don’t go and try to justify the lowball offer to the press (as the Yanks did with Jeter) it doesn’t play as a big story to anyone including the player!
Saying to someone I’m not going to make an offer because I don’t want to underbid or over bid says more to the player that I’m not really sure what your worth!
THATS more insulting than saying you can probably get more elsewhere but we have financial issues and this is the best we can do and if you want to look for better we understand but give us a chance to match it!
That says we can’t really afford it but will try if you get a better offer.
It could also be said hey we need to keep the cost down so we can go get some other players that will help us get a WS win!
Thats the best tact to take on a low offer you can make!
And not insult the player in the proccess!
It even plays of Reyes’ own statements. He wanted to stay a Met until he brought a WS here!
It certainly is where Wright would best be approached!
It’s all about the attitude 62.
If you sound like you WANT the player from the get go he won’tbe insulted by ANY reasonable offer.
But if you take the tact we don’t think your worth what you want go prove you are the player usually will! And not give you any warning he took the deal from someone else because you showed no interest whatsoever!
Everything with this guy is a slow process meanwhile everybody else is moving forward and trying to win. The Braves and Indians wasted no time but Sandy is going to wait to see what the market is for Reyes and really what good will that do because even if the market is low there can be another team or teams waiting to do the same exact thing Alderson is and once Alderson thinks he’s being smart waiting for the market to drop so he can get a cheap bid on Reyes all the teams that have been waiting on the sidelines as well will swoop right in and out bid Alderson anyway.
Has Alderson even talked to Reyes? Has he even expressed to Jose that we think the RIGHT way to go about the future of this franchise is to keep you at SS, Tejada at 2B, Ike Davis at 1B and so on. Has Alderson even tried to sell the Mets to his own player in order to keep him?
Unless ALderson is going to sign 2 pitchers and a catcher and make some blockbuster trades i don’t see how letting jose go is the best way for this team to move forward. To me it just means more work instead of less
” The Braves and Indians wasted no time”
Doing what? Dumping a 5.00+ ERA pitcher with a big contract for a minor league roster filler? Does that mean every other team in the league is also being slow and getting left behind?
complaining just to complain.
“Has Alderson even talked to Reyes? Has he even expressed to Jose that we think the RIGHT way to go about the future of this franchise is to keep you at SS, Tejada at 2B, Ike Davis at 1B and so on.”
If Tejada is right and a healthy Reese Havens is wrong, Bayonne is right. Let’s see what pans out by July 2012.
Are you serious with that nonsense? You do know the year Omar made his big signings of Pedro and Beltran it didn’t happen until December and January respectively? Yet you are complaining about Alderson on October 31?
WOW – have the Cardinals signed Pujols yet, what about Fielder where is he going, damn these GM’s are slow…….I mean ST is tomorrow isn’t it?
You do realize they were on other teams and Omar couldn’t even TALK to them before their exclusive rights period ended?
And they MADE offers to Beltran before we had a shot at him!
Boston made no offers to Pedro,they didn’t want him back.Houston made an offer to Beltran,96 mil for 6 years which he turned down because he wanted to get other teams into the mix.Then Houston offered 105 mil over 7 years and he still didn’t accept the offer from a team that just fell one win short of a world series appearance.He still waited for other teams to get involved and took the Mets offer of 119 over 7 years which was the highest bid,not before he wnt to the Yanks and offered his services at a discounted 100 mil for 6 years.
Alderson has already asked his agent what it’s going to take to get a deal done with no response from Reyes’ camp.The Cardinals have an alltime great that’s a free agent and they have yet to make an offer either.
Did I mention Pedro Joe?
“Alderson has already asked his agent what it’s going to take to get a deal done with no response from Reyes’ camp”
Thats the biggest lie going Joe!
He tried to renogtiate during the season when he knew full well Reyes said before the season started that he did not want to distract from playing baseball to talk contract!
He was ready before the season started and Sandy had other priorities!
As JoeD pointed out, Sandy made the offer to talk to Reyes only because he knew Reyes said he would not negotiate during the season.
Well Reyes is ready now so why isn’t he negotiating?
Because he never really WANTED to negotiate with Reyes he just wanted to APPEAR like he wanted to so when he Let Reyes go he could blame it on Reyes wanting too much money!
When we all can see it is a forregone conclusion that they never intended to resign Reyes for ANY amount!
Or that offer he was prepared to make mid season would have been made by now in the offseason when he had exclusive negotiating rights!
How is it the biggest lie going? Can you back up that claim?
‘Mets GM Sandy Alderson asked Reyes’ representatives how much it would take to lock him up, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (Twitter links). When Reyes didn’t respond, the Mets decided to wait and see how the market develops.’
That question was asked mid season not recently!
So, why is midseason different from right now? The whole reason he didn’t negotiate midseason is because he wanted to see his market value.
Which Reyes repeated over and over that last week or so of the season when they kept asking him the same questions – day after day.
I know I heard him say repeatedly he’s excited to be going through the FA process for the first time in his career. Told me all I needed to know concerning the Mets having no shot in hell of signing him during the exclusive window.
Because the PLAYER is FOCUSING on his job!
When you talk raise with your manager at McDonalds he doesn’t do it while your busy running the fryer where if you get distracted disaster can happen do you?
Reyes was focused on doing his job not his contract!
Sandy knew that Reyes told him before the season started renew now because I don’t want to negotiate during the season so I can stay focused!
So Sandy waiting to negotiate for the only time he KNEW Reyes would not!
And now that Reyes is ready he won’t negotiate again!
BECAUSE SANDY does NOT want to renew Reyes at all! NEVER DID! Not even mid season when he asked to because he only asked KNOWING the answer would be not now later!
Well later is here is Sandy ready?
NOPE!
Because if he makes an offer Reyes might say yes and that would screw him because he doesn’t WANT reyes at all!
“Because the PLAYER is FOCUSING on his job!”
And they hire agents. Reyes told his agent not to negotiate during the season.
And who does thr Agent have to talk to and meet and discuss things to say OK we agree?
His Wife?
You really are bad at this Donal you should just stop grasping at straws because you have never negotiated ANYTHING in your life except maybe staying up past 8pm with your parents!
METSIE, WHAT I’VE YET TO READ ANYONE CREDIT IS THAT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT SANDY ALDERSON HAD EVER SEEN REYES PLAY BEFORE TAKING THIS JOB AS PRESIDENT OF THE SD PODS WATCHING EVERY GAME IS NOT AS PERTINENT AS FOR A GM.
NOT HAVING A PERSONAL FRAME OF REFERENCE MAY JUST BE WHY ALDERSON WAS UNCOMFORTABLE TALKING CONTRACT BEFORE SEEING HIM IN ACTION FOR REAL WHEN IT MATTERED FOR ALL EXTENTS & [PURPOSES AS A SPEC ASS’T TO COMMISIONER HE WAS SEPARATED FROM SEASONAL BASEBALL ESP IN THE DR ROOTING OUT ROIDERS
“And who does thr Agent have to talk to and meet and discuss things to say OK we agree?”
That doesn’t require constant updates. It requires the player and agent figuring out what they are going after. That happens early and then the agent goes and does his job.
the agent can talk to the player when there is something to talk about.
“It requires the player and agent figuring out what they are going after”
Oh and that doesn’t require talking to the player at all right?
Get a clue dude!
62 – Shouldn’t a guy who you hire as Gm have some semblence of what he has BEFORE the season starts?
I can understand not working on a deal the first week he got there!
I can even buy wanting to see Reyes for a season before he negotiated…
What’s his excuse now?
“Oh and that doesn’t require talking to the player at all right?”
Not every 5 minutes as you have said, no. Generally, that idea is well established before either party meets.
Or are you really proposing that Reyes had no idea what he wanted prior to talking contract?
“Or are you really proposing that Reyes had no idea what he wanted prior to talking contract?”
Are you really proposing Sandy can’t make his JULY offer now?
Whats different?
Nothing, including that fact that Reyes wants to hit the market.
Oh so Nothing’s changed except Sandy’s mind….
I wonder what changed that?
Reyes might accept now so he can’t pretend to make an offer he doesn’t want to make anymore!
THATS what changed!
What part of broke do you people not understand ?
The Mets are broke and hoping for a judge to keep them solvent.
B-R-O-K-E. Do not sign Reyes, do not pass Go, not not collect $200. Broke.
They are not broke they made 300 Mil off Madoff and the judge is going to rule if they have to give that money back or just 86Mil.
If he rules 86 Mil the Wilpons won’t be broke they will be up 214 Mil and not be losing a DIME.
METSIE, DO U REALLY BELIEVE THAT SOCALLED 300M HASN’T ALREADY BEEN SPENT? HAVE U SEEN WHAT THEY’VE DONE TO THE OLD SHEA PARKING LOT THEY BUILT A NEW EXPENSIVE STADIUM IN IT FUNNY THING ABOUT MONEY WHETER IT’A $1.OO, $1,000,000 OR $1,000,000,000 EACH ONE ONLY SPENDS ONCE THEN IT’S GONE, ARATHER SIMPLISTIC STATEMENT OF FINANCIAL FACT MY WIFE & I ARE DESPERATELY TRYING TO TEACH OUR 19 YR OLD COLLEGE SOPHOMORE.
METSIE, HERE’S WHAT WE’VE BEEN TOLD, WITH A $140M PAYROLL THEY ARE LOSING $70M THAT IS UNSUSTAINABLE AS THE NYM DO NOT HAVE NEAR THE INCIDENTAL PROFIT SOURCES THAT EXIST IN THE BRONX. BTW, ONE VERY SOLID REASON FOR BRINGING IN ‘NEW BLOOD MINORITY OWBERSHIP IS TO EXPAND OWNERSHUIP’S PERSIONAL REVENUE BASE & DIVERSIFY BACKGROUND EXPERIENCES IF U LOOK @ THE PARTNERS THAT DID EXIST BEFORE THE RECENT ACTIONS ALL 9 PARTNERS RELY UPON STERLING EQUITIES FOR THEIR PERSONAL INCOME:
NYM PARTNERS ARE LISTED AS:
Fred Wilpon
Saul Katz
Jeff Wilpon
Richard Wilpon
Michael Katz
David Katz
Tom Osterman
Arthur Friedman
Marvin Tepper
STERLING EQUITIES OFFICIAL WEBSITE http://www.sterlingequities.com/about/leadership.php
LISTS THEIR PARTNERS/Sr. MNGT as:
Fred Wilpon
Saul B. Katz
Michael Katz
Richard A. Wilpon
David M. Katz
Thomas Osterman
Jeffrey S. Wilpon
Arthur Friedman
Gregory A. Katz
Marvin B. Tepper
Partner Leonard J. Schreier
IY BECOMES PAINFULLY OBVIOUS THAT INSTEAD OF A DIVERSE CASHFLOW RESOURCE SUCH AS BOATYARDS,THOROUGHBREDS,ETC. TOO MANY NYM EGGS ARE LOCATED IN THE SAME THREADBARE BASKET. THERE IS NOT ONLY THE MPLICATION THAT REVENUE CAN BE EASILY RESTRICTED TO ALL SOURCES JUST AS SUCH FAMILIARITY,& INCEST WOULD NATURALLY STIFLE ORIGINALITY & CREATIVE SOLUTIONS.
Well 62 lets do some math here….
They lost 50 Mil in 2010 and 70 Mil in 2011
120 Mil in losses means they should still have 180 Mil left!
It really doesn’t matter what they did with the money because do you really think that 300 Mil is all they have?
The guy has Billions!
We need to STOP trying to mix the Wilpon Financials with the Mets!
They are two seperate entities!
the Financial issue with the METs is losing money due to attendance not covering the bills!
Is letting Reyes go going to make that better or worse?
Like I keep telling the YOUTH BRIGADE…
Baseball is not a STATISTICAL business as much as they would like it to be.
It is an ENTERTAINMENT business that lives or dies based on it’s ability to draw!
That makes it a STAR DRIVEN business!
Have stars get ticket sales to see them play!
Not have stars no one goes to see it! Less money have to cut even MORE to avoid losing money and when you have cut EVERY salary you could possibly cut and no one shows up WHAT DO YOU DO?
NOTHING because you don’t have the money to get the stars who sell the tickets and you have no way to climb out of the hole you dug for yourself!
Sell the team and hope they don’t get moved because someone feels they can make MORE money in a city that does not have the Yankees and Bye Bye Mets!
If Metallica replaced everyone in the group with cheaper kids to save money would they continue to make the money off of concerts they do now?
No despite the music people go to see the STARS of that band playing the music and the music in incidental!
No matter what the Wilpon finances may be the bottomline is the METS money issues are all about attendance which will only go down if they don’t spend on bringing and keeping stars and if you want proof of that look at the attendance figures at Buffalo with the Bisons!
Thats the attendance your going to get when you have run out of Salaries to cut!
And that leaves you with a 30 Million dollar budget to try and get people to show up with!
If Sandy REALLY wants to fix the budget he should focus on fixing the cause of the budget woes!
And the cause isn’t what he is spending or going to spend on Reyes it is the 36 Mil he has tied up in Santana and Bay and the lack of any other stars who might give fans some cause to go and see the team a few more games a year because they have SOME HOPE of seeing a winner and if not that at least a chance of seeing a great baseball player ply his trade for the hometeam!
METSIE BILLIONS? REALLY? THAN HOW COME NO ONE ASSOCIATED WITH THE METS OR STERLING ENTERPRISES SINCE 2002 HAVE EVER APPEARED ON FORBES’ TOP 400 LIST WHICH CURRENTLY ENCOMPANCES ALL OF AMERICA’S BILLIONAIRES FROM DAN SNYDER’S(REDSKINS)1.05B TO BILL GATES’ 59B?
IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, I ONCE ATTEMPTED TO ASCERTAIN THE ACTUAL WEALTH BEHIND OUR BELOVED FRANCHISE & AMAZINGLY DISCOVERED OUR OWNERSHIP IS ONE WITH VERY SHALLOW POCKETS BY MLB OWNERSHIP STANDARDS I STRONGLY RECOMMEND U PERUSE THE INFORMATION U GLEAM FROM FOLLOWING THE PERTINENT THREADS LEADING FROM: http://blog.prorumors.com/?s=how+nl+east+owners+made+their+money
THERE’S LIKELY OTHER RESOURCES; HOWEVER, THIS WILL PROVIDE A START. DO U REALLY COMPREHEND HOW MUCH A BILLION DOLLARS ACTUALLY IS? IS IT COMPREHENDABLE THAT ANYONE CLOSE TO THAT FIGURE WOULD’VE NEEDED TO FINANCE THE PURCHASE IN ’02?
CONSIDER STERLING ENTERPRISES IS A RATHER SMALL BIT PLAYER IN THEIR OWN, REAL ESTATE, INDUSTYRY JUST CONSIDERING NYC PLAYERS. BTW, ONE OF THE MAJOR ISSUES FOR OUR NYM HAS BEEN, IMO, THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN RATHER UNDERFUNDED ESP FOR A NY BUSINESS U NEEDN’T BE SO CONCERNED ABOUT SEPARATION OF BUSINESSES AS NONE THAT FALL UNDER THE STERLING PARTNERSHIP BANNER IS CAPABLE OF EXCEEDING THE BOAT BUILDERS IN CLEVELAND. FRED & SAUL ARE “SMALL POTATOES” IN THE NYC REALTY INDUSTRY FOR INSTANCE REST ASSURED “THE DONALD” CARRIES MORE POCKET CHANGE THAN THEIR(FRED,SAUL aka NEBBISH & NEBBISH) PERSONAL NET WORTH. NEBBISHES COULD RETIRE BY SEARCHING TRUMP’S COUCH(LOL)
Because Forbes only counts PERSONAL WEALTH and STOCK!
Sterling is not a publicly traded company and it’s worth is not counted as PERSONAL WEALTH! No one knows how much of Sterling is actually Wilpons or katz and probably not how much is owned by sterling itself even! Real Estate (which is a majority of their holdings) are not included in Forbes’ Calculations!
But I will point out something from your list that you may have overlooked…
Check out how much the Phillies owner has and tell me why does he not have any issues paying out to players?
Like it or not, it is clear that Sandy Alderson has determined that he will not be a part of a Jose Reyes bidding war. Sandy has a figure in mind as to Jose’s worth in dollars and just as important in length of contract. I am thinking he would not want to go more than 4 years. I would think that Jose’s history with injuries will be somewhat of an issue for any team that is interested and that length of contract may be the big question.
If Reyes leaves for another city…..Sandy might even trade David Wright but he will shoot for at least one stud pitcher and a very good prospect too. With Wright still under contract, Sandy has a lot more leverage than he had with Reyes.
I hope that Sandy never falls victim to the signing of players with any serious injury history at all. We have gotten burned too often with taking a chance. The same goes for overpaying veteran pitchers who have far too many innings in the past.
This next year mat be a long one, folks!
“Sandy has a figure in mind as to Jose’s worth in dollars and just as important in length of contract”
Then he should tell Reyes what that is before anyone else can bid him up and Reyes might accept whatever that numbers Sandy wants to spend!
Waiting doesn’t avoide the bidding war it just ENSURES it will happen!
Time to avoid a bidding war is NOW before anyone else can put in a bid!
Metsie, imho your arguments are superior to those of the other guys. You speak for me (I’m too old to be cogent). Pops
Thanks Paul we old guys need to get the EXPERIENCED POV accross to the kids!
Otherwise they might never learn and be successful, and if that happens who pays for our Social Security Benefits! LOL
ALAN WHY SHULD REYES PAST INJURIES HAVE ANY BEARING ON WHETHER WE SIGN HIM OR NOT? AS HE NOW HAS AN ESTABLISHED INJURY HISTORY ANY NEW CONTRACT WOULD QUALIFY FOR PERFORMANCE/INJURY INSURANCE THUS NULLIFYING THE FIN’L EXPOSURE AS A 22M LOST SEASON WOULD MEAN ONLY 3.3M OUT OF POCKET(15%).
AS FOR PRODUCTIVITY LOSS. HOW CAN ANYONE JUSTIFY SAYING THAT DELIBERATELY EXCLUDING ANY REYES PRODUCTIVITY(NOT SIGNING HIM) IS PREFERABLE TO CHANCING WHTEVER HE DOES PRODUCE?
IF LETTING HIM WALK IS ACCEPTABLE WITH TEJADA @ SS WHY WOULDN’T TEJADA BE JUST AS ACCEPTABLE TO PLAY DURING HIS ABSENCES?
BTW TEJADA IS MIN WAGE SCALE & CHEAP B/U ALTERNATIVE TO BE FOLLOWED BY HAVENS OR FLORES @ MIN SCALE TO COVER CONTRACT TERM’S B/U REQUIREMENT.
THROUGH HIS ENTIRE CATREER, REYES HAS MANAGED TO PLAY IN 76% OF EVERY GAME HE WAS PAID FOR. WITH THAT IN MIND, I’D ADAMENTLY STATE;
(76%REYES) +(24%TEJADA) > (100%TEJADA)
ANY ARGUEMENTS?
THE INJURY ISSUE IS A SMOKESCREEN CONVENIENCE LOOK @ LAST YR EVEN WITH 2 D/L STINTS… HIS 76% RATE IS VERY COMPARABLE TO OTHER TOP BASESTEALERS THROUGHOUT MLB HISTORY ie RICKEY HENDERSON,MAURY WILLS,et al.
SURE, IT’S HIGH COMPARED TO A STATION TO STATION CEMENT FOOT; BUT THAT ISN’T WHAT WE’RE SEEKING.
WHILE “THE ANY EXCUSES TO BE RID OF REYES” CROWD ATTEMPTS TO VALIDATE THEIR UNTENABLE POSITION THEY AVOID LOGIC & FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THAT REYES MAKES ALL TO FOLLOW BETTER BY SUPPLYING THEIR RBI AS WELL AS THE FASTBALLS IN LIEU OF JUNK WHENEVER HE’S ON BASE
TO THOSE WHO TRY TO BELITTLE REYES’ CONTRIBUTIONS LAST SEASON BY CITING IT AS AN UNSUSTAINABLE CONTRACT PUSH RESULT I WOULD COUNTER BY STIPULATING THE RESULT WAS THE LOGICAL ACHIEVEMENT OF REYES VERY FIRST FULL SEASON IN CITI, HIS ENTERING HIS PRIME COMBINED WITH A RECONSTITUTED HITTING APPROACH SUPPLIED BY HUDGENS AND AS SUCH QUITE SUSTAINABLE
THE MOST IMPORTANT REYES QUESTION TO BE ANSWERED IS THIS;
IS THE FIRST YR OF HIS PRIME PRODUCTION PERIOD THE TIME WE WANT TO THROW AWAY THE PRIOR SEASONS OF UNFULFILLED PROMISE LEADING UP TO HIS 5 YRS. OF PRIME PRODUCTIVITY(28-32)?