We Don’t See Pitchers Winning 25 Games Very Often…

19 Comments + Add Comment

• alex68 September 20, 2011 at 7:16 am

  the MVP of the American League imo. this guy has been short of amazing..
  • paul nassau September 20, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Actually I think he’s been amazing.
    I was curious how many games the Yanks actually lost when Rivera came in for the save.
    Not a blown save, a lost game. Do you, or anyone else, know?
    Thanks, Pops.

    PS: Why didnt these guys pitch for the Mets?
• Lifelongmetsfan September 20, 2011 at 7:41 am

  No your right we, Met fans don’t see pitchers winning 17 games let alone 20.
  Question: Did we get our monies worth with Johan Santana? I mean really, Johan wone 16 games one year but really can we hoenstly say he has been worth the money? I don’t think so.

  2008 29 New York Mets $16,984,216
  2009 30 New York Mets $18,876,139
  2010 31 New York Mets $20,144,707

  2011 32 New York Mets $22,500,000
  2012 33 New York Mets $24,000,000
  2013 34 New York Mets $25,500,000
  2014 35 New York Mets *$25,000,000 $25M Team Option, $5.5M Buyout Option becomes player option if criteria is met relating to Cy Young finishes and 2011-2013 innings pitched
  • alex68 September 20, 2011 at 8:16 am

    lifelong,

    to answer your question no. other than 2008 where he won 16 games (could’ve been 22 had not been for the bullpen blowing 6 lead of his) he hasn’t been santana-like for us, he’s been hurt and probably won’t be as good as before, is a shame because i really like santana and he’s a warrior, but, as a player he’s given everything he has for us which is saying a lot, if he wasn’t hurt and he was a terrible pitcher then yea, but you give him the benefict of the doubt because he’s been hurt.
  • alex68 September 20, 2011 at 8:18 am

    ohh, and lifelong, we’ve had 17 game winning pitcher.. last being al leiter in 1998!!!!!! LOL..
    • Lifelongmetsfan September 20, 2011 at 8:29 am

      I forgot about that! Thank you.
  • Donal September 20, 2011 at 9:02 am

    I don’t think that’s a completely accurate assessment. The problem with counting pitcher wins is you need to account for things out of the pitcher’s control. Bullpen woes and lack of run support did hurt Santana’s win total.

    The better question is did Santana put the Mets in position to win at least 20 of his starts every year?

    On the flip side, in 2006, Steve Trachsel won 15 games. Does anyone here honestly believe Trachsel did anything to put the Mets in the best position to win 15 games?

    When you see Verlander in Detroit, you see a talented pitcher having a tremendous season and a team taking full advantage of it. Detroit is 4th in the AL in Runs per game, Hits, Slugging, OPS, and OBP. They are 3rd in BA and second in OPS+. And ,while not the best in the league, their bullpen is average enough to hold on to the lead in the majority of their games.
• Eric the Actor September 20, 2011 at 7:45 am

  Clemens never won 25. His high was 24 in 1986, the year he won the Cy Young and MVP.
  • Lifelongmetsfan September 20, 2011 at 7:48 am

    Eric the Actor from the Howard Stern show?
  • Brandon Butler September 20, 2011 at 8:04 am

    I can’t do much with my iPod at the moment, but as far as your facts go, I believe your right.
    • Donal September 20, 2011 at 9:05 am

      Indeed he is. Baseball Reference confirms it.
• XtreemIcon September 20, 2011 at 9:29 am

  He won’t win the MVP. Not a chance. Pitchers don’t win the MVP anymore. I don’t necessarily agree with that and especially not this season. Verlander’s the only one of the five candidates who’s team would not make the playoffs without him. I think that should count for something.
  • Donal September 20, 2011 at 9:33 am

    I’m not sure he won’t win. I think both sides have a very good argument.
    • XtreemIcon September 20, 2011 at 9:50 am

      The every fifth day thing is a good argument, but so is the no playoffs without him and I think it’s a better one. We’re talking about value here, not best stats. I just don’t buy the argument that Bautista is more valuable when the worst that happens to the Jays without him is they finish 5th instead of 4th.
      • Donal September 20, 2011 at 10:04 am

        Well, given recent events, you could make an argument for Adrian Gonzalez now
        • XtreemIcon September 20, 2011 at 12:01 pm

          I would argue AGAINST Gonzalez. Disappeared in hte TB series with the season on the line and all he has going for him is a high BA and RBI total. We’re talking about value here. Pedroia and Ellsbury are far more valuable on his own team and you can even make a case for Beckett and Ortiz as MVRS.
• alan September 20, 2011 at 9:39 am

  Signing pitchers to long term contracts is a mistake especially when they have racked up big inning totals over 5 seasons or more. The opportunity though to sign a stud pitcher as in a Johann Santana or a Pedro Martinez is tough to pass on when you don’t already have good pitching. In both of these players, the Mets took a chance and lost other than for a season or so for each pitcher. The answer is to build a young pitching staff through minor league development and hopefully get 5-10 years of a strong and stable group of starters.

  With the Carlos Beltran trade to the Giants the Mets have obtained a big time prospect in Zack Wheeler to anchor that staff. Depending on what happens with Jose Reyes will also have an effect on rebuilding a staff through trades and free agency. Patience is again a virtue while the reality is that we are not even close to being ready to overtake the Phillies or Braves!
• Metsie September 20, 2011 at 11:31 am

  He is having a great season you can’t deny that. It is rare to see someone win 20+ games but if it is going to happen in this day and age of specialized roster spots based on innings its going to happen in the AL!

  All because of that DH that lets you keep a good pitcher in the game because you never have to pinch hit for him!

  This type of thing used to happen far more often before the advent of Pitch Counts and Bullpen Specialists (like the 8th Inning setup man and lefty/righty specialists).

  In the NL it’s even worse because you wind up pulling a guy for a pinch hitter unless he has a shutout going or a clear lead late in the game. Just look at how many compete games pitchers have now compared to yesteryear!
  And the Pitch count is usually the reason why, not what he is doing on the mound.

  And finally the league has become so obsessed with VELOCITY that many pitchers are overthrowing early in the game and gassing themselves earlier which leads to Bullpen coming in and blowing leads and win opportinities.

  If you ask any of the guys who DO win close to 20 games many will tell you they seem to get STRONGER as the game goes on. But they still get pulled for Pinch Hitters or Pitch counts regardless of how they feel.

  It is way more likely to happen in the AL and it does explain why the AL seems to have the best pitching every year. they get to finish what they start and they don’t have to place their stats in the hands of others as often as the NL pitchers do.

  Doesn’t make their accomplishment any less remarkable but it does explain why it always seems to be an AL Pitcher who gets the most wins every year.
• Davidthemetsfan September 20, 2011 at 3:17 pm

  Verlander could have been ours in 04. This is why I dont care if they lose every single game from here on out. LOSING MATTERS.