6
2011
Small-Market, Here We Come
An article by 
For anyone out there who doesn’t think it is in all Mets fans best interests, to drive out the cancer known as the Wilpon family, check out what Joel Sherman wrote in his latest post:
“Regardless of who — if anyone — joins the Wilpons in ownership between now and the offseason, the Mets’ payroll is going down. Way down…..And actually for the first time this week, a top Mets official said to me what none had been willing to before, either for the record or for background: That one serious discussion being had at the upper reaches of the franchise is whether it would be wise to cut back greatly next year and make 2012 a rebuilding season in which club officials do not go through the annual game of trying to convince fans, if everything breaks right, they can be a playoff team.”
Oh, so they’re going to stop spending money AND stop bullshi**ing the fans? Really? Marvelous! Does that mean the Mets will be competitive by 2013? 2014? Can’t wait!
Here’s Sherman’s article in it’s entirety.
About the Author: Peter Shapiro
The first time I went to Shea was not for a Mets game, it was for the Beatles concert there in August of '66. My first Met game was '67, a guy named Salty Parker was the interim-manager then. My first pennant race was 1969. As a 12 year-old that summer and fall, I managed to get to the park for 3 games. The first was the beginning of the Miracle which actually started on Tuesday July 8, 1969 with a day game against the Cubs. I was there a lot in '73. I saw games 3 & 5 of the 1973 NL Playoffs against the "Big Red Machine", from the upper deck behind home plate. It was from there that I witnessed the fight between Bud Harrelson and Pete Rose, and the mayhem that ensued. And that sweet victory in game 5! I saw a couple of WS games at Shea that year against that legendary Oakland A's club. I was there in 1985 for every single game Dr. K pitched including his two 16 strikeout performances, and the day he one-hit the Cubs on an infield single and the Mets won 1-0. I loved being a Met fan in those days. Hopefully we are once again preparing to emerge from the darkness.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 23 | 18 | .561 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 19 | .548 | 0.5 |
| Phillies | 20 | 22 | .476 | 3.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 23 | .410 | 6.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 31 | .262 | 12.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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So who exacty should the mets be spending money on aside from Reyes (debateable)? Aside from fielder it’s a pretty weak free agent market and we already have a pretty good 1b in Davis. The mets haven’t been unwilling or unable to spend money it’s doing it effectively that’s been the problem. Please, tell me what they should be doing with the extra money that they theoretically will not be spending next year that will make the team better than it would otherwise be.
Good post. I would counter that the extra money could be spend on better quality BP arms. If you had infinite money, CJ Wilson and Reyes, but we all know infinite money doesn’t exist. So really, there isn’t a whole bunch of ‘Quality’ to throw money at.
njstuckin,
most likely it will be no reyes, AND nobody else.. we’re pretty much better get ready for some excuse from our GM as to why he didn’t acquire this player, or that player.. then, more crap would come to NY..like JJ Hardy
And if it nets better draft picks and gets this ship moving in the right direction, I can accept that.
draft picks?? yeah, because i am sure draft picks will get us another explosive offensive weapon like reyes, do you realize it took this franchiZe 40 something years to find a JOSE REYES??? what makes you think sandy alderson and his sabergeeks will get us another one like him or better?
What makes you think they won’t? What makes you think they’d even look for a top shortstop in the 2012 draft? Why would you assume they’d eschew looking for a catcher, or more arms? Are you that down on Ruben Tejada that you think the Mets must immediately bring in a guy to replace Reyes if he walks, whether it be via draft picks or a guy like Hardy, who you seem to love?
Is it a terrible decision to let some other team give Reyes 7/$140, get two picks, use money to shore up other holes and see what the kids (the same kids the Omar lovers thought were good enough for this year’s team to contend) can do?
so instead of investing 20 million on a really good player, top 3 at his position, let’s invest 1/4 of that money to fill up holes, save 15 million, get 2 draft picks, and PRAY that one of the many players we draft develop to be something good??? yeah, i see you in 2015 bro.. if that..
Why is it either/or with you? Why is it 0 or 100? Why no middle ground? Who said anything about $20 million being the problem? I’m more concerned about the years. If Reyes will take 4/$80 or even 5/$100, I’d do it every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
And why, if they save $20 million on Reyes would they only spend $5 million of it. Sandy’s got the core on speed dial, huh?
What would make you happy? Spend a billion dollars to field All-Stars at every position, because that’s what the Yankees do, or at least attempt to do? Come back to reality.
No, you probably don’t find another Jose, but if it costs 2 arms and a leg (of which, said leg probably has a hamstring problem) to retain Reyes at premium cost while neglecting the other holes on this team because they have financial restrictions, is that smart or worth wild? No, it isn’t. Look, I wish the real estate market was booming and the Wilpons wiped their backends with $100 bills and had no issue dumping out resources to get whatever needs they had, but it ain’t like that. You have to play the hand you’re dealt.
I want a winner as bad as the next, but it’s just plain stupid to mortgage the entire future for the chance to make a run at the Wildcard. You build the team to make multiple runs. If it can be done with Wright and Reyes, that would be awesome. If not, I want to see the team win. Team > Individual.
SIGH…..Why is signing Jose Reyes all of a sudden spun into “neglecting holes” and what not????? We aren’t signing free agents to begin with, because the pro-Alderson parade claims we aren’t giving up draft picks. What type of players are we signing? The types that aren’t offered arbitration. What kind of players are those? GARBAGE! So you want to fill holes with GARBAGE? Is that the ticket? Give us a break already. If you aren’t competing next season, you might as well wait for the arms in the minors. What’s the goddamned rush to go spend Reyes’ money on pitching? You think C.J. “BLEEPIN” Wilson is going to turn this into a playoff team? What rocks are you smoking?
I’d assume they sign him to longer than a 1 year deal, so solidifying a starting rotation spot would be planning for the future, while not losing a 1st round pick (psst, that’s also planning for the future). I’m trying to think outside of the 2 schools of thought of “spend a billion to compete next year” vs. the “no hope, strip the team down to a 50 million dollar payroll and check back with me in 2021…”
And no, CJ Wilson is not Roy Halladay or Cliff Lee, but he is fairly solid lefty who’s numbers suffer from pitching in Texas. If they didn’t spend the money on him, I would certainly not start crying in my beer. Strengthening the pitching is never a bad idea, in my mind. If you disagree, that’s fine.
C.J. Wilson is NOT that serious. And I would be happier if we went after a STAR pitcher. C.J. is a 30 year old who only has pitched over 100 innings 2 times in his career. I am NOT looking forward to spending money intended for Jose Reyes on HIM.
And I understand where you are coming from. I’d prefer Reyes as well. But do you want Reyes at a 6+ year deal? That’s going to be the rub.
only mets fans are worried about a player in the 5th or 6th year contract.. do you think boston, yankees or the phillies are even worrying about arod’s. crawford’s or lee’s contract right now?? enough man, if we get 3 or 4 years out of a 5 or 6 year deal is more than enough.. only guys like arod, manny i’ve seen perform EVERY YEAR of the contract doing good, and those 2 were linked to PED’s.. so, that’s the norm now, a player needs more guarantee $ as their careers will be cut shorter than in years past..
Why not it worked for the Yankees and Jeter didn’t it?
You GIVE Reyes the money!
I got news for you Alex……Boston fans ARE worried about Crawford’s contract now. And Yankee fans ARE worried about A-Rod’s contract now. Actually, they were worried about it when he signed it. Don’t know about Lee.
Yankee fans weren’t worried about A-Rod’s contract when he hit .365 with 6HR’s in the 09 postseason to help them win the WS…….
i don’t think Boston fans are wasting their time worrying about contracts and I don’t think Yankee fans are wasting their time worrying about stupid contracts. That’s what it’s come to these days – talking more about other people’s money instead of worrying about winning games.
Live Vinny B said, Yankee fans didn’t worry or concern themselves about any contracts when they won in 09 and Boston fans won’t give a darn as soon as they win. And if Bay had hit like himself for us than we wouldn’t be discussing his contract either.
You don’t think this and you don’t think that, but I know, and so would anyone that does a little bit of homework. Boston fans hate Crawford’s contract and Yankee fans hate A-Rod’s. It’s not fiction, and you can find out for yourselves.
And you know what else? Bay IS hitting like himself. This is Jason Bay. This is what he is. Get over him. It’s been two years. Stop living in the past and expecting him to hit like he did with Boston in that RH hitters haven.
They sure didn’t hate it when he was getting big hit, after big hit in the 09 postseason.
That’s all you got? One good playoffs to offset an atrocious 10-year contract? I’d expect that from Bayonne, but you know better.
Yep. Any move that wins you a WS is a good move. because there’s nothing more valuable than a WS, it’s every teams goal, so any move that helps you reach that goal is a good move.
So let me ask you this:
If your a Yankee fan, would you rather have A-Rod’s “atrocious contract” and win the WS, or not have A-Rod, and lose the WS?
what would you rather have?
I don’t know about you, but I’ll go with the bad contract, and win the WS…..
Or, you can sign someone to a good contract and win multiple World Series instead of having one guy take up 16% of your payroll and cause payroll issues down the line. This point, however, is moot because we’re talking about the Yankees. They don’t operate under the same set of laws normal teams do.
Let’s instead focus on how the trade rumors were rampant about Hamels when Lee was signed. Cole Hamels won a World Series, but Cliff Lee never has. Now the Phils might not be able to afford Hamels. Or about how the World Series winning Jacoby Ellsbury might also be traded because of the money being paid to the non-World Series winning Carl Crawford.
See, these are real examples of normal teams having to trade the more value commodity because of atrocious contracts they handed out for what…..one shot?
Would you do me a favor and list all these ‘HOLES” that need filling?
Pitching? (yes one or two SP holes and a one or two BP Holes 4 Total) Does it pay to go cheap on SP? Capuano was cheap and can’t get past the 5th and 6th innings!
1B? No Davis Murphy Duda and Evans! No Holes there!
2B? Murphy Turner Tejada + MiLs! No Holes there!
SS? Only way there is a hole is if you don’t pay Reyes and even then you have Tejada and Turner!
3B? Wright and Murphy says no hole there!
RF? You have Duda, Evans, Pridie and maybe even Murphy next year, Not a hole in sight!
CF? Pagan and Pridie can both play, are they ideal? No! It’s not so much a HOLE as a place that can be improved! And it can be improved with some growth on Pagan’s part!
LF? It’s not so much as a HOLE but a CLOG! Bay is taking up that slot and if we get rid of him could easily play Duda, Evans or Murphy there!
C? We have Thole much the same situation as Pagan, Needs to improve his Defense but his Bat is servicable.
So where are all these holes everyone keeps saying needs filling?
I see Maybe 6 total most of which (4) are Pitching which have MiL options just waiting to be promoted in the next two years!
We need an Ace. Can’t draft an ACE you need to buy or trade for those! So your method is not going to fix that. BullPen is all minor signings with the exception of a closer. Best closer on the market we traded away for scraps in the name of filling holes! Maybe they fill those BP spots meaning the HOLES are reduced significantly.
I’m not suggesting we go on a BUYING spree here. But I also think it’s foolish to not keep the Top players we have and buy at least ONE of the positions that are best fillied by BUYING (most notably ACE) so that there is someone to guide all those MiL SPs we have due to be promoted to the MLB.
Buster Posey is about the only frontline catcher worth buying in the entire league, the skill level drops significantly from there so there is no FIX or FILLER for the C position just an alternate Paulino or two you can platoon with!
It’s is DUMB to take a step back unless you need momentum and if this season showed anything they ALREADY HAVE momentum based on their fighting spirit Collins has added to the team this year. Injuries hurt that and if they manage to keep the guys on the field (same issue Omar had!) they don’t really HAVE a lot of holes. In fact just the opposite they have more guys for more position they have NO PLACE TO PLAY!
Thats not a step back situation it is a move FORWARD moment where they go and get what they need to get where it is available and use some of that logjam to trade to get what isn’t available on the open market!
And if you think otherwise I would ask you to list all the holes YOU think exist, because I’m sure most of us disagree that there is any hole there at all!
Are there All Stars at every position? NO! But then again your method for filling those positions isn’t going to change that!
This team HAS some chemistry and the worst thing that could happen to us is to ruin it by changing all the names looking for All Stars via SURPRISE. If thats the goal then the BEST way to get them is to buy them like everyone else does!
So if your definition of HOLE is NON-ALLSTAR then your just making the case for the BUYERS not the builders.
Holes – 1 to 2 SP slots
BP – 5 spots
SS – It is a hole until Reyes re-signs. Prob filled internally by Tejada if he doesn’t. Are you prepared for Full Time Tejada?
C – Thole is not good at both Hitting nor Fielding.
There are 8-9 holes, by my count.
And how can you say you can’t draft an ace? Do they just mysteriously appear from the planet “starpitcher”? Kershaw, Felix Hernandex, Strasburg (potentially), Johnson, etc. etc. Continually signing Star players while not growing your own is a game plan that isn’t working. Whether you want to speculate or not, Harvey, Wheeler and possibly Mejia, there is a brighter future than the past couple years.
Having a rotation of Wheeler, Harvey, Niese, Wilson, Gee (or another name for Wilson if you like) gets me excited to see what the future might hold.
Holes – 1 to 2 SP slots- Not being filled by NOT resigning Jose Reyes.
BP – 5 spots- exaggeration. This team needs a closer, lefty set up man. The rest can be filled from within.
SS – It is a hole until Reyes re-signs. Prob filled internally by Tejada if he doesn’t. Are you prepared for Full Time Tejada?- No, you simply sign Jose Reyes.
C – Thole is not good at both Hitting nor Fielding- Catchers can be found. Few are stars. This isn’t a hole that will cost millions to fix.
#1 starters cost 15 million per. #2 are slightly less. Since we’re not spending on free agents, Reyes money goes unused. The rest of the players on this list won’t cost more than 3-4 million to fix. You don’t risk losing Reyes for that.
“Are you prepared for Full Time Tejada?”
As prepared as you are to wait 4 years to replace him AND the Pitchers AND all 8-9 holes unless your BUYING a fill?
So your way My way either way, Either you pay Reyes or you draft and sit through the same 3 or 4 years of Tejada…Whats your pick? Sign Reyes isn’t it?
SP, Ok draft you willing to sit through 3 or 4 years of Pelfrey and Capuano until that pick fills?
WHo is your catcher after you draft one? Thole No? Is that pick going to be here next year?
Do any of the kids you expect to draft going to fill any hole between now and 2014? NO!
But Buying does fill a few doesn’t it?
Maybe fills just enough so that the kids we DO have in the MiLs will fill before any pick you think of taking will!
And then they will compete!
8 or 9 holes but thats only if you scrap the entire Pen! It’s really only 4 and and none of them are going to be filled by a draft pick before 2014 or 2015.
SO basically your just standing pat until the draft works out (IF it works out) for you and doing nothing just hopeing a Lottery ticket cashes in!
And I’m supporting going and buying a SP, letting Harvey, Holt, Mejia and maybe Wheeler be that second filler.
Resigning Reyes, and maybe trading some of the logjam at 2B for a OF who can replace Bay, DUMPING bay and letting the logjam of kids we ALREADY HAVE play there instead.
I at least would be FILLING holes…You would be waiting for something to happen!
And taking a vacation on team building for 4 years until the picks you want are ready to play!
That’s basically the same team is this year which is mediocre.I don’t know why a Met fan would want Murphy as anything other than a lefty bat off the bench.Once he steps foot outside of the batters box he’s an absolute nightmare of a baseball player.Maybe the dumbest player I’ve ever seen.His offense is ok but it’s not that good where you can overlook his defeciencies which there are far too many.This team does have holes.The outfield is a total nightmare.Yes Duda looks like an offensive weapon but like most of Omar’s draft picks,Josh Satin,Dan Murphy,Zach Lutz is a defensive liability with 1B,3B and LF being the only positions they can play(Poorly).They can all hit but kill you on defense.Bay is Done,Pagan has regressed,Pridie is a fringe major leaguer.The OF has major holes.We can live with the infield if Jose resigns and actually plays 150 games but catcher and OF are sore spots.Have I mentioned the pitching staff?
Mediocre?
Dude they just won 9 of their last 12 games!
Without Murphy and Davis no less!
Why would I want Murphy? How about that .320 batting Average?
I guess in your world everyone should hit .400?
Or they are just MEDIOCRE?
Get a clue dude!
JOE, HOW TOTALLY MYOPIC OF U TO NOT SEE THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF ATTEMPTING TO SALVAGE A SUB.500 4th PLACE FINISHER WITH AN ABSOLUTELY BONE DRY TALENT PIPELINE, AMOUNG THE MOST DECEREPITLY LIFELESS A,ADV-A,AA,AAA ROSTERS WITH MERELY 1 PROSPECT RECOGNIZED BY BASEBALL AMERICA, LASTINGS MILLEDGE, THE “FALLEN FROM GRACE” PROJECTED EARLY FIRSTROUNDER WHO WAS TARNISHED BY A HS SEXUAL ASSAULT SCANDAL WHILE BEING HANDCUFFED BY OWNERSHIP TO NEVER SPEND OVER SLOT REGARDLESS OF TALENT TARGETED. FACED WITH THE PROSPECT OF A MEDIOCRE MLB ROSTER OF AGING FORMER BORDERLINE “NAMES” SUCH AS LIETER AS YOUR INCUMBANT ‘ACE’(AGE 39) LEADING ONE OF THE OLDER ROSTERS LED BY A COMATOSE MGR(HOWE) TOLD WORDS/CONCEPTS SUCH AS REBUILDING NON COMPETITIVENESS WERE VERBOTEN IN HIS MARKET(NYC) GIVEN TOTAL FREE SPENDING REIGN TO TARGET WHAT F/A HE DESIRED HE AIMED FOR & NEARLY BAGGED THE 3 MOST DESIROUS PLAYERS THEN AVAILABLE TO RECONSTRUCT WITH INSTANT PRODUCTION, A MEDIOCRE MLB ROSTER FOR A FRANCHISE RENOWNED FOR IT’S F/A MARKETPLACE INCOMPETANCE(WINFIELD,FOSTER,BONILLA,A-ROD,GRIFFEY,GURERRO), IN JUST ONE MARKET OMAR SUCCESSFULLY TABBED HIS 2 TOP PRIORITY SELECTIONS OUTBIDDING THEIR FORMER TEAMS OVER EXTENDED NEGOTIATIONS(PEDRO/BOS, BELTRAN/HOU) LAVISHLY OVEREXTENDING AS NEEDED TO ACCOMPLISH THE NECESSARY TASKS & GOING DOWN TO THE VERY FINE WIRE ON HIS NEXT NECESSARY TARGET, DELGADO. BARELY LOSING PRIMARILY DUE TO SABOTAUGE CONTRIVED BY THE AGENT(FL BASED,SM CLIENT ROSTER) & AN UNNECESSARY, INEXPERIENCED UNDERLING, BERNAZARD, FORMERLY FROM UNION RELATIONS IN THE COMMISSIONER’S OFFICE. A WILPON RECOMMENDED HIRING TO SECURE COMMISIONER’S GOOD WILL.
CERTAINLY MINAYA WAS AWARE THAT ALL OF THIS TOP SHELF SHOPPING WOULD PROVE COSTLY IN HIS REQUIRED RECALIBRATION WITH POSITIONAL TALENT IN THE FORM OF LOST TOP ROUND PCKS; HOWEVER THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT SUGGESTS OWNERSHIP (JEFF) KEPT OMAR IN THE DARK CONCERNING THE POLICY OF STRICT SLOT ADHERENCE INSTITUTED WITH THE BLESSINGS OF HIS ONCE REMOVED PREDECESSOR, PHILLIPS DURING OMAR’S TIME IN MONTREAL AS HIS INITIAL PLAN WAS TO SUPPLEMENT/REPLACE HIS LOST “PRIME” AMATEUR PICKS WITH TOP NOTCH INT’L SIGNINGS AS WELL AS TO USE HIS REMAINING EARLIEST DRAFT PICKS TO SELECT THOSE “FALLEN” FIRST ROUNDERS DUE TO POSSIBLE YOUTHFUL TRANGRESIONS OR PRESENT REPRESENTATION(BORAS) REQUIRING HE COMMIT FIRST ROUND LEVEL BONUSES TO NON FIRST ROUND PICKS AS OTHER “BIG MARKET” FREE AGENT SIGNING” CLUBS(NYY,BOS) HAD BEEN DOING FOR YEARS. ONLY THEN WAS OMAR INFORMED BY “THE PRESS” OF HIS BOSSES’ MANDATE AGAINST THE PRACTICE OF COMMITING OVERSLOT BONUSES TO “FALLEN ANGEL”
TYPE FIRST ROUND AMATEURS. THIS NECESSITATED A SCRAPING MIDSTREAM OF HIS PLAN A(ALREADY COMMENCED WITH BELTRAN,PEDRO SIGNINGS) AS HE SCRAMBLED BY LOCKING IN HIS 2 PRIZED INT’L PICKS GOMEZ & MARTINEZ RELATIVELY INEXPENSIVELY AS 16 YR OLDS. HAVING ALREADY SACRIFICED HIS PRIME ROUND PICKS, PLAN B NECESSITATED SCRAMBLING FOR THOSE CHOICES MOST CAPABLE OF COMPLETING A DEVELOPMENT ROSTER @ MULTIPLE POSITIONS AS SUDDENLY FLEXIBILITY BECAME REQUIREMENT #1 LEADING US TO THE JACOBS,CARPS,MUPPHYS,EVANS,THOLES,DUDAS,HAVENS,ETC THAT HAVE PROVEN TO BE MOST SERVICABLE ESP AS MANY GOT EARLY PROMOTIONS TO PATCH SUDDEN MLB HOLES AS THRY APPEARED THROUGH MORE FREQUENT THAN USUAL D/L TRIPS.
JOE, A POPULAR SUPPOSITION QUESTION IS “WHO WOULD U CHOOSE IF U WERE STARTING A TEAM? WHAT IF, A OMAR FACED, IT WAS 4 TEAMS NOT JUST 1 THAT NEEDED THEIR ROSTERS PUNCHED UP & POLISHED? MORE LIKELY, IF ON A BUDGET, U’D BE BEST SERVED BY TRYING TO FILL AS MANY OPENNINGS AS POSSIBLE WITH THE FEWEST SELECTIONS POSSIBLE, ERGO GENERALIST POTENTIALS FOR MULTIPLE POSITIONS.
JOE, I WILL SUBMIT TO U THAT OTHER THAN THE PRINTED VERSION OF THE BREAKFAST INTERVIEW IN THE DR BETWEEN BILL MADDEN & OMAR MINAYA WHEREBY MADDEN FIRST ENLIGHTENED MINAYA’S VISION INTO THE ABYSS OF PHILLIPS/WILPON DEVELOPMENT DISREGARD DISDAINING ANY CONCEPT OF OVERPAYING FOR AMATEUR TALENT NEARLY 4 YRS AWAY FROM PAYIONG OFF.
RATHER, MY FRIEND, THEN QUESTION HIS CHOICES & METHODS FROM WITHIN A CIRCUMSTANTIAL VACUUM U WOULD OPEN YOUR OWN EWYES & MIND & CONSIDER HOW ILLOGICAL IT APPEARS FOR THE SAME EXECUTIVE TO IDENTIFY THE TALENT & ABILITIES OF A BELTRAN,MARTINEZ,DELGADO,WAGNER,SANTANA,K-ROD,BAY WHILE @ THE SAME TIME SEEM TO LUST AFTER THE CASTILLOS,ALOUS,OLLIES IT WOULD EITHER BE BECAUSE OF AMNESIA, INSANITY, UNSEEN UNTOWARD OUTSDE PRESSURE(FROM ABOVE HIERARCHY) FOR THE SAME INDIVIDUAL TO REASONABLY MAKE ALL OF THOSE SEEMINGLY INCONSISTANT EVALUATION CHOICES. THROUGH LEGITIMATE PROCESS OF ELIMINATION I BELIEVE WE CAN ELIMINATE AMNESIA & INSANITY SINCE NEITHER CONDITION COULD EVER BE KEPT SECRET FROM THE EVER INTRUDING NYPRESSCORPS. THAT ELIMINATES ALL CAUSES EXCLUDING THE MOST LOGICAL, SABOTAUGE BY JEFF, DELIBERATELY UNDERMINING WHOM HE BELIEVED WAS A SUPERFLUOUS HIRING BACK FROM THE BEGINNING.
IN ALL HONESTY, JOE DOES YOUR PICTURE OF A GENERALLY INEPT BASEBALL EXECUTIVE, OMAR MINAYA
OR
MY PORTRAYAL OF AN UNDERMINED, UNDER INFORMED OVERLY RESTRICTED BASEBALL EXECUTIVE, OMAR MINAYA
GENERALLY COVER MORE INCONSISTANCIES IN A LOGICAL MANNER?
LMAO! How is losing Reyes for a pair of BOOOOSHEET draft picks making us better? Are you serious right now?
You’re being shortsighted. If you can’t see farther out then the next season only, I can’t help you at all.
No, NJ. Most of the time, first rounders bust. Few turn out to be All-Stars, so assuming the 2 first rounders we get for Jose will be beneficial to our future is all a lot of praying, hoping and wishing.
Didn’t you hear NJstuckinTX? After 2012 there will be no more baseball.Screw the future lets spend like drunken sailors and try to squeak out a wildcard spot.Our farm system having no impact bats drafted under Omar doesn’t matter.We didn’t need those 1st round picks.Shit we might as well gave away our 2nd rounders too since Omar drafted Nat Vineyard with Mike Stanton still on the board and the next pick after Stanton the Mets chose Scott Moviel 1 pick ahead of Freddie Freeman.The way Omar drafted why even bother goin to draft day.Yeah who needs 1st round picks.Oh wait Omar is no longer here.I’ll take the draft picks rather than spending on a great talent who only averages half a season of games played since the 2008 season.Lets clog up another 100 plus million on the DL.
Thanks for this. I almost ruined my computer spitting out my coffee.
Yeah, Murphy, Duda and Ike aren’t going to be big impact bats, but Freddie “BLEEPIN” Freeman is. SMH @ these agenda filled Met fans.
A fool like yourself begs for draft picks, but fails to realize Depodesta has NOT drafted a player that has made the big leagues as an everyday starter.
ALEX, THIS ‘TUDE IS RELATIVELY IRRESPONSIBLE BECAUSE IT’S CLEAR TO ANYONE WITH FINGERS, TOES & THE ABILITY TO PERFORM ADDITION, THAT THIS TEAM AS PRESENTLY CONSTITUTED COULD EASILY AFFORD 20-22M PER ON RETAINING JOSE, FOR ALL THOSE CHOOSING TO BELIEVE ALL THIS NEGATIVE PALP FROM THE NY PRESS CHICKEN LITTLES CONCERNING HOW OTHER TEAMS DESIRES FOR JOSE WILL BLOW US TOTALLY OUT OF THE H2O, THINK & LOOK AGAIN, EXACTKLY 8 OF THE CURRENT 30 TEAMS ARE WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER UPPER ECHELON PAYROLL TEAMS(>100M PAYROLL): NYY,BOS,CHC,PHL,NYM, DET,CHW,LAA AS ONLY THEY HAVE PAYROLLS IN EXCESS OF 100M TODAY. CONSIDER HOW MANY OF THE 30 TOTAL TEAMS REQUIRE A SS & ARE WILLING TO EMPLOY THE HIGHEST PAID ONE WITH “TYPICAL” DYNAMIC BASESTEALER(HENDERSON,BROCK,RAINES,COLEMAN,ETC.) INJURY CONCERNS. WILL THERE BE TEAMS WANTING TO UPGRADE @ SS? CERTAINLY, HOWEVER THE PRESENCE OF ALEX GONZALEZ,JIMMY ROLLINS, RAFAEL FURCAL ALONG WITH REYES OFFERS THEM SIGNIFICANT NAME/FAN RECOGNITION AT PRESUMABLY A STAGGERINGLY LOWER PRICE. ALEX CONSIDER THE CURRENT PAYROLL FLEXIBILITY AS PRESENTLY THE LARGEST SUMS ARE GUARANTEED TO VERY FEW PLAYERS SO ADDING REYES @ SAY 22M WILL NOT BE CAMEL’S BACK CRUSHING:
SANTANA: $ 24M
BAY: 16M
WRIGHT: 15M
DICKEY: 4.5M
CARRASCO: 1.2M
TOTAL: 60.7M CERTAINLY MORE THAN ENOUGH WIGGLE ROOM FOR REYES & STILL MEET THE AUSTERITY PAYROLL PLAN. YOU CAN ADD NEARLY AN ENTIRE 40 MAN ROSTER @ MLB MIN + REYES @ 22M AND STILL MEET THE 100M MARK.
ALEX, Puh-LLLEASE PURCHASE AN ABACUS BEFORE DONNING YOUR SANDWICH BOARD PLASTERED WITH THE DIRE; “THE END IS NIGH!”
62, wise as usual. but again, the question isn’t can the mets afford reyes anymore? is more like if we sign him can we keep wright as well? that’s more the debate going on now. seems to me one of the 2 will be here, not both based on the owners situation, a situation that for 3 years straight hasn’t come to a conclussion
ALEX, FIRST IT’S MOST LIKELY “CHOICE” IS A PRESS CONTRIVANCE NOT A FRONTOFFICE CONSIDERATION AS WRIGHT IS SECURED THROUGH ’13 & REYES @ 20-22M IS AFFORDABLE EASILY UNTIL THEN AS WRIGHT’S DECISION DOESN’T PRESENT ITSELF UNTIL ’13 WHEN SANTANA’S ONEROUS DEAL IS FREEING UP 25% OF THE PAYROLL! “CHOICE” IS UNLIKELY ANYONE’S CONSIDERATION OUTSIDE OF THE THINK TANK, THE NYPRESS CORPS RESERVES FOR TWEAKING ANGST INTO MET FAN’S LIVES SO THEY BUY MORE OF THEIR RAGS FOR FURTHER ‘INSIDER’ SH*&. ALSO BAY’S $$$ EXPIRE IN 2 YRS LEAVING THE WRIGHT QUESTION A NON ISSUE UNLESS HE’S DEMANDING A LUDICROUS $80M+/SEASON. IS THEER ANYONE PROJECTING NO PICARD/MADOFF RESOLTION FOR MORE THAN 2 YRS? IF SO, I HAVENT SEEN THAT CRAPOLA EITHER.
That’s the media talking.They could keep both.They’re not conducting a fire sale.They’re just not spending much on the FA Market because there is not much to spend on in way of an impact player.Unless you want them to give an aging Pujols who looks more like 37 than the actual 32 he’s listed as being a ridiculous Omar like contract.I can see it now the Mets sign Pujols and he hits 250 27 94.Sounds about right for a Met FA signing.Or they could sign future sumo wrestler Prince Fielder and trade Ike for basically nothing coming off injury.Have faith in Alderson.Omar didn’t screw this up overnight,it won’t be righted overnight either.Alderson is building the team to hopefully go on an extended run like we’re witnessing with the once dormant Phillies.
JOE, I’M VERY DIOSAPPOINTED IN YOUR CHEAP SHOT,”Omar didn’t screw this up overnight,it won’t be righted overnight” AS THE FARM WAS BASICLY THE SAHARA AFTER PHILLIPS’ 7,8YR TENURE MIMICING SHERMAN’S MARCH. TRY TO RECALL THAT WHILE DUDA,MURPHY,EVANS,ET AL ARE NOT IMPACTFUL; BUT CERTAINLY SERVICABLE, THEY ARE MORE THAN OMAR’S PHILLIPS,DUQUETTE LEGACY OF LASTINGS MILLEDGE ON THE POSITIONAL FRONT. NEITHER IMPACTFUL NOR SERBVICABLE; BUT ALL THAT WAS BEQUEATHED. WITH THAT LEVEL OF A DRIED OUT PIPELINE SUPPLYING 2004 A SUB.500 4th PLACE MLB ROSTER PUTTING UP THESE ’04 RESULTS:
NATIONAL LEAGUE
Eastern Division Home Away Div Leag Icf
2 Atlanta 96-66 .593 —- 49-32 47-34 51-25 37-31 8-10
Philadelphia 86-76 .531 10.0 42-39 44-37 39-37 38-30 9-9
Florida 83-79 .512 13.0 42-38 41-41 43-33 33-35 7-11
NY Mets 71-91 .438 25.0 38-43 33-48 29-47 32-36 10-8
Montreal 67-95 .414 29.0 35-45 32-50 28-48 32-36 7-11
RECONSTITUTING THAT QUICKLY INTO A RESPECTABLE RESULT, WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY CULTIVATING A DESSERT INTO AN OASIS, IS MERELY LEGENDARY, IF ACTUALLY POSSIBLE; BUT OMAR DESERVES MUCH MORE CREDIT FOR HIS ATTEMPPT AGAINST THE JEFF(RED?) TIDE, AS JEFF NEVER WANTED OMAR & THOUGHT HE SHOULD HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF BOTH JOBS JUST AS CASHEN DID; BUT DADDY DIDN’T TRUST THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE GRAD OF HIS LOINS(THANK, THE LORD)
IF NOTHING ELSE MINAYA DESERVES AN HONORABLE MENTION FOR A BASEBALL FRONTOFFICE PURPLE HEART, MORTALLY WOUNDED IN THE LINE OF DUTY.(SHOT IN THE BACK?)
IT’S OBVIOUS TO ANYONE WITH AN OPEN MIND THAT A GM WITH TOPSHELF TASTE WHEN UNOBSTRUCTED DESIRED BELTRAN,PEDRO,DELGADO AS A FIRST OPTION TRIFECTA WOULD NOT BE SEDUCED BY THE ALOUS,CASTILLOS,OLLIES IF NOT MANIPULATED INTO A DESPERATE COMPROMISE BY POWERS MORE INFLUENTIAL THAN HIMSELF.(WILPONS)
Alderson is a puppet figure handed to the Mets by MLB to “right the ship” as sold to DOPEY Met fans. The guys making deals are Depodesta and Ricciardi. Depodesta, a product of NEPOTISM, can’t draft a starting player if his life depended on it, but the DOPEY Met fan is pinning their hopes on this man.
You can’t make it up.
Do you know what nepotism means? Either you don’t or you think Depodesta is someone’s nephew.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/nepotism
Someone who lacks intelligence should recognize it. The worst thing in the world is presuming you’re smarter than you really are.
free dictionary? You didn’t even go to one of the good ones?
You specifically went to find the one that agrees with your silly presumption. Poor little guy.
JJ already signed an extension with Baltimore earlier this season so you can scratch him off the list as a possible replacement.
That’s actually been mentioned several times. But facts and coherence aren’t really alex’s forte.
first of all, it was JesseP who mentioned it. not me you f*ing loser… get your facts straight ok..
$110 million is not small market. I am so sick of this site whining and complaining when the team will still be towards the top of the league in payroll. Grow up, the team needs to rebuild. Blind people can see it. People on ESPN can see it. Everyone but the writers on this site knows the team needs to rebuild and shouldn’t waste money next year.
Why dont you grow up? I write for the site, and I know the team needs to be rebuild. Why dont you stop saying ignorant things and just state your own opinion without the insults? I’m sure of the 40 or so writers here, it’s split.
METSPUPPY, SPOT ON! PRIMARILY BECAUSE FANS ARE LAZY & UNLIKELY TO RESEARCH FOR THEMSELVES THEY RELY ON THIS BS PALP BEING SUPPLIED BY NEWS,POST,TIMES,NEWSDAY,ETC. MISLEADERS EACH & EVERYONE THERE ARE 30 TEAMS IN MLB TODAY OF WHICH:
8 HAVE PAYROLLS IN EXCESS OF 100M
10 BETWEEN 72 & 100M
12 LESS THAN 80M
THEY BREAKDOWN AS: UPPER,MIDDLE,LOW CLASSIFICATIONS Re.PAYROLL AS
UPPER(GROUP#1): NYY,BOS,CHC,PHL,NYM,DET,CHW,LAA
MIDDLE(GROUP#2): SF,MIN,LAD,STL,HOU,SEA,ATL,COL,BAL,MIL
LOW(GROUP#3): TB,CINC,KC,TOR,DC,CLV,AZ,FL,TX,OAK,SD,PIT.
NB. BOTH WS COMPETITORS LAST YR ARE AMONG THE LATTER GROUPS, AND OF THOSE TEAMS PRESENTLY PRINTING POSTSEASON DUCETS 4 ARE FROM GRP 1(NYY,BOS,DET,PHL), 1 FROM GRP 2(ATL) & 3 FROM GRP 3(TB,TX,AZ) AS IT SEEMS ONLY IN THE WORLD DESIGNED ESSENTIALLY BY ‘BOSS’ STEINBRENNER(EASTERN DIVS) DOES THE LOGIC OF $$$=TITLES PREVAIL. DIVISIONALLY EXPLORED THE 8 UPPER SPENDING TEAMS RESIDE WITH 4 IN THE EAST, 3 IN THE CENTRAL & 1 OUT OF THE WEST; THE MIDDLE GROUP OF 10 RESIDE WITH 4, WEST, 4 CENTRAL & 2 EAST. THE BOTTOM TIER OF 12 EQUITABLY SPLIT WITH 3W,3C,3E.
FURTHER EXAMINED BY LEAGUE THE UPPER TIER HAS 5 FROM AL & 3 FROM NL.
MIDDLE COMPRISED OF 3 AL, 7 NL.
LOWER 6 AL, 6 NL.
FOR CERTAIN, THE POTENTIAL FOR PLAYOFF CONTENTION IS BLIND TO PAYROLL ECPENDITURES WHILE THE MOST DEMOCRATIC, EQUITABLE SPLI BE IT GEOGRAPHICALLY OR LEAGUE EXAMINED IS CERTAINLY AMONG THOSE SPENDING BETWEEN 34,943,000 & 71,923,471 IN TOTAL PAYROLL. AGAIN MY ORIGINAL SPLITS WERE BASED UPON CUTOFFS OF 80M & 100M TO BE TRULY EXACT:
UPPER EXACT RANGE 104,963,866 TO 206,333,389
MIDDLE EXACT RANGE 81,108,278 TO 98,641,333
LOWER EXACT RANGE 34,943,000 TO 71,923,471
CERTAINLY WITH AN EMPHASIS UPON TALENTED YOUTH WHERE A MERE $1M ALONE CAN SUPPLY 2 POSITIONS @ MIN WAGE(425K?) FOR UP TO 5 YRS. CONSIDERING THAT FACT & OUR PRESENT DAY FEW; BUT INDIVIDUALLY SUBSTANTIAL COMMITMENTS TO:
SANTANA $24M
BAY 16M
WRIGHT 15M
DICKEY 4.25M
CARRASCO 1.2M
TOTALLING 60.45M LEAVING 39,550,000 TO EXPEND ON REYES+INCIDENTIALS & STILL REMAINING IN UPPER ECHELON OF PAYROLLS ALBEIT THE BOTTOM OF THE UPPER. CERTAINLY NOT TO BE DERIDED AS “SMALL MARKETISH”
TRULY, WITH QUITE REPRESENTATIVE TEAM OFFENSIVE NUMBERS THIS SEASON IT’S TRULY OBVIOUS OUR DEFENSE AS WELL AS PITCHING REQUIRE SUBSTANTIAL IMPROVEMENTS. HEALTH & PITCHING DEVELOPMENT WILL ASSUREDLY COMPLETE BOTH TASKS COST EFFICIENTLY. AS PITCHING TRULY IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE COMMODITY TO SECURE OF THE 19 OR SO MILLION AVAILABLE POST REYES’ SIGNING IT IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY ALDERSON CAN AFFORD ANYONE SUBSTANTIAL ENOUGH TO IMPROVE OR IMPACT OUR CURRENT LIKELY 3rd PLACE FINISH @ AROUND .500 BEFORE OUR FARM CROPS (HARVEY,FAMILIA,WHEELER,MEJIA,GORSKI) RIPEN PROPERLY MOST LIKELY READY FOR THEIR FIRST SIPS OF COFFEE 09/13 WITH 2014 THE MOST LIKELY YEAR BOTH FINANCIAL STABILITY(BAY,SANTANA DEPARTURES) AND TALENT DEVELOPMENT BREAKTHROUGHS COINCIDE BEAUTIFULLY.
Are you saying we should follow the Omar dictum of a new FA every year, no matter how decrepit he may be?
Omar signed All-Stars, sir. He turned a 20 game below .500 team into the best team in baseball. You would trade the next 3 seasons for a repeat of 2005, let alone 2006. Now STFU already, please
Omar was a competent GM whose strategy worked for a couple of seasons and then fizzled. When you sign very good players past their prime, you need some luck for the team to remain healthy and productive. It didn’t.
Omar is one of the best GMs in baseball. He turned two FLOUNDERING squads into playoff contenders (Nats and Mets) within two years of being in charge. The Nats haven’t been playoff contenders since he was in charge. He scouted numerous Hall of Famers, and had this team stayed intact, we wouldn’t be 15 games behind the Braves at this point. Omar’s kids are littered throughout the roster. They will finish .500 because we traded K-Rod, Beltran and Ike was out for most of the season.
And his “strategy” made us the winningest team in the NL from 2005-2008. Let’s see how long it will take Alderson’s philosophy to give us 4 years like that. There’s a great chance Alderson won’t sniff 85 wins until 2015.
Right. let’s see who hires Omar to be their GM, ok? Then, if that ever even happens, we can see what kind of job he does. After all, one of “the best GMs in baseball”, should not be waiting long.
Omar fan just as clueless as Omar the GM. You know what I’m sayin!
When the Mets are 15 games under .500 next year (if Jose is resigned), Alderson will be mumbling the same “You know what I’m sayin” lines, only he will scrub it up in his best Ivy League prose, “uh ummm uhhh ummmm”
That’s just baseball. And stop trying to take OmarFan’s job.
Omar did not draft one impact bat in his entire tenure here.Have you ever looked at the players he passed up on and a lot of the ones he took are out of baseball.Duda,Satin,Evans,Murphy,Lutz are serviceable offensive players but not impact players.I wont even go into the ridiculous contracts he handed out.Yes I will.Alou for 2 1st rounders,Castillo,bidded against himself,same with ollie,Bay,K-Rod.@ years for a 47 year old Franco.Trading Wagner for garbage instead of the 2 picks he would’ve received if he offered him arbitration.Where are the impact IFA’s he was supposedly adept at.45 error Wilmer Flores.jury still out on that one.He had some bad luck with the injuries to Beltran,Wagner and Delgado but because of the lack of depth in the minors due to his ineptness,we basically pissed away 2 playoff berths.I mean the 2006 Mets that won 97 games were anchored by El Duque.Yeah he’s a great GM.
Yeah Evans had no Impact last night, just a footnote in that win I guess!
One of the best in GMs in baseball?
WOW – new level of ignorance
Gotta love STUPID Met fans..lol
Ya, you really are a treasure.
Nah – I don’t need to love you…………..
Well Q, that’s a very good question. But you can’t simply take Reyes out of this equation, he’s a big part of it and it can’t be ignored. Sherman’s article implies that the Mets are seriously considering letting Reyes go. As in adios. If they do, you are asking what should they spend money on? I have to spell it out for you? How about the team. How about a replacement for Reyes? How about a closer? You talk of a “weak free agent market”, and that is true, but have you scouted out what closers may be available this winter? A few. Enough. But from what Sherman’s article implies, does it sound like the Mets would be willing to go out and sign a Papelbon, or a Nathan, or a Heath Bell, or a Jonathan Broxton, or a Matt Capps, or someone else? No, Q, it doesn’t. Last I checked the Mets had plenty of huge holes to fill on the major league level, more than you could ever expect to fill adequately with just your minor league system and some comeback players. You have to spend SOME money, but the Wilpons have SA’s change purse by the short hairs. I don’t know Q, maybe you are ok with the Mets losing year after year, maybe you think it’s ok for the Mets to have a payroll of $70 million. Maybe you think it’s ok to have to decide between Bobby Parnell and Pedro Beato for a closer next year. Maybe you think it’s ok to being a losing, second division team again in 2012, and maybe even longer. I for one am sick of this franchise throwing away seasons, like a total waste, like a year of baseball doesn’t even matter, because of the mismanagement of it’s ownership. You may love the Wilpons Q, and what they are doing to this team, you may even be one of them. Good for you. Tell me something Q. Instead of asking such fascinating questions, why don’t you tell us what YOU would do?
Well petey, I find it interesting that you dropped the projected payroll in your response by more than 30% from your article and 50% from this year. I have not seen anything to suggest that it will be going anywhere near that low. Second, I am not the one writing the articles or complaining about ownership. You put a standard on me that you have not met yourself but I will humor you. I am currently on a train so I do not have full access to payroll information but if I remember correctly we have about $55 million committed next year to Santana wright and bay. No one is taking bay’s contract so he is our lf. Santana will also be back in the rotation making it better than this year. I would non tender pelfrey because after arbitration, he will be too expensive to fill the 5th man roll he seems to fill. If we resign cap or young we would have a rotation of Santana, Dickey, Niese, Gee, Capuano/Young. Not the phillies’ rotation but not the royals’ either. If we resign Reyes, we will have an infield of wright Reyes turner/murph and Davis. Coco crisp seems to be the best cf available so I’d just as soon keep pagan who is pretty much comparable with at least some upside potential and I think we can agree that Duda has shown he deserves a look at rf in a rebuilding year. Bullpens tend to be erratic and similarly priced regardless so I wot get into middle relief and the catching market is full of backups and players riddled with injuries so I don’t see any releif there either. That does leave closer open. Even if we do sign a binaries closer like a pappelbon, it would only take us into the $110 million range because of the subtraction of things like the K-rod albatross.
Would that team make it to the WS? No but would it be better than tossing $100 million at a #2-#3 starter over 5 years? Yes
*a proven closer like papplebon. autocorrect on my phone is wierd
*a proven closer like papplebon. autocorrect on my phone is wierd
So what would you do if you were the gm?
Well, I don’t know, that would depend on the financial restrictions being placed on me (as GM). Which was my point (I got a little off the track before), it’s not a matter of how the GM fixes the problem, as much as: are his/her hands going to be tied and are they limited to doing absolutely nothing, which is what I was complaining about.
I can understand frustration with a potential inability to spend this offseason but we already spent well on the draft and seem to be making much better decisions on trades like beltran for weeler vs Wagner for a bag of balls. I think the bigger deciding factor will be the lack of available talent as opposed to the financial restrictions. Remember we have the beltran, krod, Castillo and Perez contracts coming off the books after this year
Even if the Mets would be able to spend millions more in 2012 do you really think they would be competitive with the Phillies and Braves. These teams had a lock on their respective division championship and wild card after two months into the season. Barring unforseen serious injuries , the Phillies and Braves will be in this position for at least two more seasons. I say let’s experiment in 2012 and go with a mix of veterans and rookies to see what our future looks like. We could have a very good lineup (if Bay bounces back) with Reyes, Pagan, Evans, Davis, Wright, Duda, Bay,
and Thole. And we have good utility players in Turner,Pridie, and Tejada and Paulino.
Our starting pitching is decent without naming all the guys, Yes we need a closer but I have a feeling that will work nitself out in spring training. I think in 2012 we’ll have a Nationasl League East pretty much what it looks like now but watch out for ’13!
The only thing Bay will bounce back from is….forget it….Ollie put a spell on him
Well it could happen, just like an earthquake in Wash, DC.
I agreed with your post until you said that “our starting pitching is decent.” It is not, nor is the bullpen. With Davis coming back seemingly healthy, and with Wright and Murphy playing for an entire year, we will have an improved team. Duda’s bat will replace Beltran’s, I think.
As for the pitching, what we have coming back is a questionable Santana and a bunch of back-of-the-rotation starters. Pelfrey is not worth the $6 million or so that arbitration would give him, nor is Capuano worth the $3-4 million or so he probably wants. Young? A dubious pitcher coming off a serious injury. The Mets should some of the money and make a serious bid for C. J. Wilson—say five years and $85 million. He should be our ace when, and if, Wheeler, Harvey, and/or Familia are brought up in 2013. Non-tendering Pelfrey saves some money, and not paying Perez $12 million saves more. If the Wilpons can’t spend on this team in the New York market, it should not be the fans’ problem. And, anyway, how much will another 10-percent drop in attendance cost them? The bullpen needs some money spent—but not that much—on guys like Byrdak ($1.5 million should do it) and Joel Peralta (another $1.25 million). Let’s see how Parnell does this month before we worry about the closer. Acosta, Beato, and even Herrera look OK.
You have more indepth knowledge of the pitching staff than I have and what I meant by “decent” is that we are getting buy. Santana to me is a question mark. Will he come back as a potential Cy Young guy or come back a la Pedro Martinez. Put him aside, I am gambling that Santana is an ace, and behind him there is Gee, Niese, and Dickey and if we keep Pelfry or Capuano and bring up one of the guys you mentioned we could have a real competition in spring training for a “decent” pitching staff. Would I non tender Pelfrey, yes, yes and yes. He has the Aaron Heilmann “bug.” and will never be successful in the Big Apple. I haven’t given up on Parnell but he is close to gone in my opinion. I think they should convert Capauano to a long reliever and the big hold is the closer role which I have no answer for except the trade route. Somewhere out there is a closer, and some teams like the Braves have moren than one (Kimbrell and Venters) but they won’t part with either one so this is critical because a 500 team plays in a lot of 1 AND 2 run games and a closer is critical. ‘Preciate your knowledge and insight!
Thanks, Lou. I just ran the numbers, and for $118-$120 million in 2012, you could sign Wilson for $18 million, Reyes for $18-$20 million, Peralta for $1.25 million, Buchholz for $1 million, and Francisco for $4.5 million, non-tendering Pelfrey and not signing Capuano. The bench could be Paulino, Evans, Turner, Tejada, and Pridie. Thirteen of the Mets’ 25-man roster would be at or near the minimum salary. Carrasco would be sent to Buffalo. Francisco could close, if Parnell fails in that role, or set up for him, if he doesn’t. The bullpen of Parnell, Francisco, Beato, Byrdak, Herrera, Peralta, and Buchholz would be much improved at minimal cost—even for the Wilponian Mets. If Reyes goes to the Giants or Nationals, we’re down to the $100-million budget, but signing him and being at $120 million (adding Wilson and the relievers) should make use a competitive team, boosting attendance and revenues next year.
I forgot to add Acosta to the pen. That would save another half million (subtracting Buchholz) for the Wilpons for their country club fees, etc.
The unpopular but probably smart play would be to let Jose walk and spend money like you mentioned on CJ Wilson.
And trust me, I’d prefer to keep Jose. But if Wilson is a type A (i believe he is) and Reyes walks, the Mets first rd. pick is protected, no? So they’d have 2 first rd, 1 supp. rd. and lose their 2nd round pick while strengthening their SP. Yeah, losing Jose would be tough replace, but would probably make better sense in the long run.
Wilson’s 30 years old and may be the #1 pitcher on the market, depending in Sabbathia opts out or not. Even if Sabbathia hits the market, it will just drive whoever between the Yankees and Red Sox that loses out on him to go after Wilson that much harder.
Certainly, I wouldn’t go all out for him. In the same manner I would be leery of some huge contract for Reyes, the same wariness would apply to everyone else.
5 years and 85 million for CJ Wilson? Are you nuts?
2015 will be the 1st year the Mets will be a legitimate contender for the post season.
We have 3 years of slop to wade through.
after seeing this post this morning, i kinda got happy.. is sort of what we’ve been saying here the whole time while others have been just blinded about this whole situation. sandy alderson wasn’t here to be a winning GM, he was brought here to cut payroll and save the franchize to the wilpons. is a shame to say i told you so about the team we love and root for but… I TOLD YOU SO!!!!
so, with that being said, as i stated many times, 2014.. here we come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the core has spoken
petey!!! my man… and the funny things is, just as i was right about oliver perez being garbage, david wright unclutch and minaya being way over his head as a gm, noone will come and say, alex68, you were right we were wrong.. they don’t wanna admit when they’ve been wrong.. NEVER.. rather call you names, uneducated or tell you to go learn eng-lish
How about that unclutch David Wright being named NL Player of the week?
You are not right, even if you say it every day, doesn’t make it right.
And as usual, said nothing
keep it moving then.. you don’t see me replying in your post because i find them useless or garbage, so i keep scrolling down.. do the same..
Like this one?
Well, look who’s following who?? that answer your question?
I TOLD YOU SO , I TOLD YOU SO
YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
You read a BLOG, with a reference to another BLOG on the NY Tabloid Post and take it as GOSPEL, because it fits your agenda
I TOLD YOU SO, YOU STILL HAVE NO CLUE
The core is rotten……………
I think a key point that gets overlooked is whether spending more will be enough to make the difference next year.
assume they do cap at 110. With the money off the books, that means you resigned Reyes, and shuffled around parts on the pitching staff, but nothing huge.
so, to keep everyone happy, spend another 20 million, taking payroll to 130.
Based on the FA pool, I assume that means you signed Prince. So the question is, does that make the team a playoff contendor in 2012? Or 2013 for that matter?
If you say “hell no, not enough pitching” then why bother, if the only measure of success is a playoff run?
so add another 20 going to 150. That might get you CJ Wilson and keeping pelf and 1 “name brand” set up guy.
is that the missing links to a WS run?
Anyway, again, if the answer is No, then it makes sense to invest in building up the talent in the system, and when the nucleus is stronger, make the splurge on the missing links via big-$$ FAs.
otherwise, you are sucking up a lot of $$ for a couple years that could be used elsewhere, and the guys you spend it on will just be getting older. might as well wait until you are a legit contender just missing a guy or 2, then go out and get the players you need still in their primes.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you, BUT, while we wait attendance continues to drop and the team racks up not 60 mil a year in losses but maybe 75-80 mil a year and the hole just getrs deeper. You can’t raise tickets for this team. Yes waiting makes sense but you have to increase team revenues to make your plan viable.
the only thing that will really spike attendance is winning. you get some bump with an interesting player added but who much, and for how long, if the team isn’t winning?
So spend 130 instead of 110 by adding CJ Wilson and Joe Nathan. Are those guys going to generate enough extra wins to bring in enouch fans to cover the salary?
Even Prince. Is he going to make up the deficit + cover his salary all by himself?
attendance likely hits a floor at some point (2 mill?) and the Mets have a pretty good idea where that is. As long as they align expenses to that revenue point, the team stays afloat.
And, you can increase buzz (= more tickets sold) with some exciting young guys. remember when Gooden and strawberry came up?
Another thing to raise is where Ike Davis is if Prince is on this team. Ike Davis is a far better draw fan interest-wise than Prince Fielder.
“Ike Davis is a far better draw fan interest-wise than Prince Fielder.”
You can’t really be serious about that can you? lol
Granted I agree Fielder is exactly the type of FA signing we should avoid! It reeks of Delgado Redux! An unathletic 1B who hits monster HRs but will be injured often, miss games and strike out plenty.
This has to be the single most DUMBEST thing I’ve read on this board. I need to know why you think Ike Davis is a better draw for the Mets than a guy like Prince. Are you on drugs?
If this comment doesn’t reek of agenda, I don’t know what does..SMH
LoL at my agenda……giving props to an Omar guy. What this town needs is another immobile, defensively challenged 1B for a jillion dollars while a home grown guy with similar power and studly defense is cast off. Not to mention spending whatever money IS available on a position that’s not an issue.
Perfect…..the fans will really get behind the Mets after that.
xtreem, good comeback, that comment i am sure it was made because ike is one of omar’s guy and you are glad he is here, i get it, but to say he’d be a bigger draw than prince is just crazy man..
“most dumbest?”
Next to……….Omar is the best GM in baseball………..
Another thing to raise is where Ike Davis is if Prince is on this team. Ike Davis is a far better draw fan interest-wise than Prince Fielder.”
i thought the we HAVE to sign chris young comment was just ridiculous, but this just draw the line… i mean.. are you serious??????
You think Mets fans would rather see Ike Davis cast off for Prince Fielder? You’re out of your gourd. Just completely lost it.
xtreemicon, we’ve seen basically 1 year of davis (above avg year) and how many great ones from prince?? also, ppl complain here about reyes being soft and injury prone, should we consider ike davis injury prone?? i mean, an ankle injury and he’s out for the whole year.. isn’t that a fragile body type player if you ask me??
One injury doesn’t make one “prone” or “soft” but I guess the jury is still out on that front. Maybe he is, but you can’t make that decision now. And as far as his one year, you must have missed the first month of the season when Ike was absolutely raking. He’s the real deal, he plays a tremendous 1B, he’s 3 years younger thatn Prince and he’s not 300 pounds.
Yes, because we Met fans are in a position to laugh off premier power hitters like Prince Fielder for a guy who has proven NOTHING in his brief career. Ike is IMMOBILE if you haven’t noticed. As for defensively challenged, Delgado was a very good defensive 1B. He would save Wright’s bacon dozens of times a year with his glove. SMH @ people capping on Delgado as if Ike is Keith Hernandez all of a sudden..lol
ROFL at Ike is immobile. Now I KNOW you don’t watch baseball.
He IS immobile. The man’s range is limited. The guy doesn’t have outfield range, because he’s slow. He has made some nice catches over the railing, but that doesn’t constitute having mobility. And you WATCH baseball? SMH
Then again, there is that LAUGHABLE comment about Met fans being more interested in Ike than Prince..LOL
Wait, Ike is immobile but Fielder is desirable?
Really?
a 1B does not have to be fast. Just quick. And Ike is quick around the bag. And a much better overall 1B defensively than Delgado was with the Mets.
Please, if they offered me Fielder for Ike, I would jump to make that deal. Only someone with non-baseball agendas would want to see Ike over Prince.
If you trade Ike for Fielder right now, you haven’t watched a day of baseball in your life. It’s actually very simple.
Ike would be GONE and I have watched more baseball than you’ve been living on this planet in all likelihood. Ike has proven NOTHING in his big league career. Prince is a certified All-Star. You probably didn’t like the Delgado move because you were lap dancing Mike Jacobs and his worthless homers he hit in Arizona.
ROFL at everything you’re saying now. Seriously, you’re going to tell me that Fielder is a better 1B than Ike then go on to say how stupid I am because I probably loved Jacobs and his desert home runs. Do you even proof read what you write?
You need to stop looking at stats and only stats and watch the game. You sound just like a 20-year-old that thinks scouting is for the birds. If you ever watched Ike play first base, you’d be singing a different tune.
Xtreem resorts to a lying back-peddle by claiming I said Fielder was a better 1B than Ike. What I said was Fielder is a better player because he’s a FREAKING ALL-STAR and Ike is still a NOBODY! Ike aint Jon Olerud much less is he some stud defensively. Talk about blind squirrel…SMH
but to the point of the post, it is never that simple when you live on a budget. You aren’t trading Ike for Prince. You are trading Ike + $20mill of payroll flexibility for Prince. So by extension, Ike and all the other players you could get for that money.
and teams do have to do cost/benefit analysis all the time. You might only get 80% of the production of player A from player B, but if Player B is 1/10th the price, you can use all the money saved to offset that 20% lost elsewhere.
Just look at it in terms of bundles with the same cost, and decide where you get more total production.
here, you could say Ike + CJ Wilson vs. Prince + Misch (and even there, you still have a lot of $$ left over for more players).
I’ll give you a little info about UNNAMED sources you should know about…
99% of the time an UNNAMED source is trying to send a message to someone! Not inform the public but a particular group of individuals! But leaking something as UNNAMED is a VERY GOOD sign that the source, one way or another is not getting what he wants and is trying to push the issue! If not then it is a clear message to Reyes!
That said consider the market…Who is there to buy? The biggest name in FA is Reyes!
Will they resign him? I’m sure the FO is split on this! Some think they can get by with Tejada, Others probably think Reyes MUST be resigned. Perfect situation for UNNAMED SOURCES to leak if you ask me!
Sure they are CONSIDERING not buying big, afterall Buying big just MAINTAINS what we had since all the big buys are guys we just got rid of due to their impending FA status!
Reyes #1 with the possibility of K-Rod and Beltran being somewhere in the top 5-10 of available FAs!
If they decide to give up on 2012 they had better win the division by 2013 because if they don’t they won’t be the ones making moves in 2014!
The press will give the FO leeway because they know Sandy’s contract isn’t due to expire soon and just like Bay isn’t getting kicked out due to how much is left on his contract Sandy won’t get kicked out by the media until he gets closer to the end of his contract than he is to the beginning. But by 2013 his contract will be close to done! If he hasn’t built this team up by then he will be gone quicker than you can say Omar Minaya!
SO if the FO wants to put themselves in a hole and take the slow road to China the only one they are hurting is themselves! Each step back they take means that many more steps FORWARD they have to make in each year that remains. And the earliest any of the draft picks they make is going to show up is 2013 IF they are lucky!
And on an unrelated note to the posters who claim Sandy is Selig’s boy…
Wilpons just got rid of the OTHER Selig guy didn’t they?
They might just be PERFECTLY WILLING to let Sandy gut the franchise, lose for the next year and a half so they have a damn good reason for getting rid of Sandy as well!
It really doesn’t matter what they do. Thier job security still depends on them winning something! And if they chose the wait till your ready approach they will get fired before they are READY!
And that means not just sucking 3 or 4 year it will be closer to 8-10 years which is about what you need to rebuild a team by sleeping in the cellar and collecting all those high round picks you need to do it!
It’s thier perrogative to dig and put themselves in a hole!
And if they do there will be PLENTY of people (Sherman Included) who will be happy to throw the dirt on them in 2013 and BURY THEM!
First of all, it’s Joel Sherman. He’s had more than one instance of fan baiting. Just look at the language he uses.
“And actually for the first time this week, a top Mets official said to me what none had been willing to before, either for the record or for background”
oooo a top official
“That one serious discussion being had at the upper reaches of the franchise is whether it would be wise to cut back greatly next year and make 2012 a rebuilding season in which club officials do not go through the annual game of trying to convince fans, if everything breaks right, they can be a playoff team.”
You mean be honest to us? How refreshing. Besides, its one discussion being had. One that they should have been having for a while now. In fact, I’m sure they had this last offseason.
And $110 million payroll is not small market. It could easily be a top 10 next year. Assuming, of course, they cut all the way down to $110 million. Alderson is on record as saying he expects to be at about $120 million next season. He’s also said they could be competitive at $110 million.
Besides, so what? What is more important: payroll or win total?
Let’s just say in some bizzarro world, the Mets payroll hits bottom 5 in the league. If they are legit World Series contenders, would you care? If they actually had a few Octobers and a ring out of it, would you still be mad?
Stop worrying about how much the Phillies and Yankees are spending (because that is what this all really about) and start worrying about how much the Mets are winning.
interesting thing about the Phillies, and spending.
Over the last few years, their payroll has been shooting way up. And their success (measured by when their season finished) is going down!
2008 – WS winner
2009 – lost in WS, with a much higher payroll than 2008
2010 – lost in the LCS, with a much higher payroll thatn 2009
2011 – payroll jacked up to #2 in MLB. And hopefully the other trend continues!
This happened with the Mets too. 2006 payroll was quite a bit lower than 2009, but the team won a hell of a lot more.
for those who are still on this crap about $110 million dollar payroll or so, let me remind some of you that bay and santana (who will either be injured or not himself) will be making approximately 1/3 of that payroll combined.. the mets most likely will not pursue a free agent, and that includes reyes, and if they do keep him, look for wright to be traded.. either way they are not gonna spend this offseason, they already shredded the payroll, look for the team to be even worse this upcoming year.. but hey, look at it on the bright side, if reyes walks we get draft picks (roll eyes)
the sandy alderson’s smoochfest continues.. this is just amazing.. now ppl are ok with conceiding the 2012-2013 and the 2014 because we are “stocking the minors with talent”.. what many of you don’t realize that for every felix hernandez there are 300+ paul wilson’s out there, while i want harvey, familia, mejia and wheeler to succeed and do good in the majors, is not the same pitching in the minors than in the big leagues!! ppl please, stop it, losing reyes, hell even trading wright doesn’t guarantee that the draft picks/prospects we get will turn out to be great.. just ask the pirates who keep getting draft picks and prospects and they all turned out to be complete garbage or bust..
Why are you blaming Alderson when the offseason hasn’t even come yet and you don’t know how much they’ll spend. And if they don’t have money to spend this offseason, why is it Alderson’s fault instead of the Wilpons?
ahhh, he was hire here to shed payroll, he along with the wilpons are a bunch of liars!!!!!!
Quote me one thing that Alderson has lied about since being GM of the Mets.
lies:
we will be competitive.. at best 500 finish to save the season
will help out the team: then trades krod for peanuts and beltran for a single A pitcher.. the mets mathematically are still in it, yet refuse to address the bullpen
you want more?
give me the exactly quote with source
And this whole idea that the Wilpons spent all this extra money to hire a new GM to shed payroll is retarded. If they just wanted to shed payroll they could have just kept Omar and ordered him to trade away players himself and not giving him any money to spend.
STUCK, THE FOLLOWING WAS LACKING A REPLY BUTTON; BUT WAS OH SO DESERVING OF A RETORT…
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NJstuckinTX says:
September 6, 2011 at 11:38 am
And I understand where you are coming from. I’d prefer Reyes as well. But do you want Reyes at a 6+ year deal? That’s going to be the rub.
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6+ DEALS? U R READING THAT NEGATIVE PROPAGANDA AGAIN; BTW, BILL MADDEN ON DNL STATED HIS MLB SOURCES CITE A ALOT OF SIMILAR FEARS Re INJURY ISSUES AS NYM SUPPOSEDLY HAVE & 3Y SEEMS TO BE WHERE HE’S PEGGING THOSE OFFER RANGES CERTAINLY MADDEN CAN BE DEAD WRONG, AS HE CHOSE ATL TO WIN THE DIV NEARLY EVERY YR SINCEW ’06. WHILE EVERYONE LIKES TO POUND REYES FOR HIS D/L TIMES AS BEING ONEROUS & EXTRORDINARY I’D SUGGEST THAT FOR A PREMERE BASESTEALER ESP @ SUCH A POTENTIAL ‘CONTACT’ POSITION AS SS IS CERTAINLY WELL WITHIN “NORMAL” RANGE AMONG HIS PEER TYPES THROUGHOUT MLB HISTORY, CHECK OUT THE GAMES PLAYED PER ACTIVE SEASON FOR THE LIKES OF RICKEY HENDERSON,VINCE COLEMAN, LOU BROCK, TIM RAINES, RAFAEL FURCAL, JIMMY ROLLINS NOT STATION TO STATION AL SS TYPES LIKE A-ROD, JETER,RIPKIN;BUT THOSE BIRDS FEATHERED SIMILARLY TO THE DYNAMIC FIRECRACKER, REYES. MOST LIKELY FOUND ON THE ROLES OF NL TEAMS, HISTORICALLY. RICKEY BEING THE LONE AL STANDOUT.
NO, MY FRIEND, I DON’T FORESEE A CONGA LINE OF COMPETITOR TEAMS LINING UP TO CONTINUE REYES’ RUN AMONG THE HIGHEST PAID SS PRESENTLY @ 11M OVER 2X THE PRESENT SALARY OF J-ROLL,FURCAL,A-GON, NO MY FRIEND THERE’S AMPLE SUPPLY OF TOP FLIGHT SS, ALL OF WHICH LIKELY CAN BE HAD MUCH MORE REASONABLY WITH MUCH LOWER INJURY RISK.
IT’S TIME TO OPEN A NY WINDOW & GLANCE OUTSIDE “THE BUBBLE” 20-22M FITS IN OUR BUDGET, SHORTER PERIOD FAVORS THE 28 YR OLD AS HE GETS MORE BITES OUT OF THE F/A MKT ON QUICKER TURNS. WHY WOULD AN EXUBERANT,ENERGETIC,SELF-CONFIDENT REYES ONLY WANT HIS PRICE SET ONCE FOR 6+ YRS WHEN HE CAN GET AT LEAST 2 SHOTS ON 3Y TERMS. LONGER DEALS FAVOR THOSE LOOKING AT IT BEING THEIR LAST OR ONLY BITE. REYES’ AGENT IS N O T BORAS & HAS ALWAYS TAKEN THE COURSE MOST REASONABLE & AMENABLE TO REYES’ & HIS FAMILY’S COMFORT/DESIRES. REMAINING IN THEIR CURRENT LIVING SITUATION BENEFITS THE “ENTIRE FAMILY” KIDS SCHOOL, WIFE’S SOCIAL ENVIRONEMENT, “LITTLE DR” ENVIRONEMENT & COMGYNESS. THOUGH MANY TOUTS SAY REYES WAS DISS’D BY HIS TERMS COMPARED TO WRIGHT’S, JOSE NEBVER GROUSSED.
Look man, I am not anti-Reyes, so don’t get me wrong about not wanting Reyes. If he could be had for 3 years, back flips galore will be occurring at Mets sites across the globe. I just think it’ll be a game of chicken. “3 years, 60 mil. Oh yeah? Well I’ll give you 4 years 80 million. Oh yeah, I’ll give you 5 years then at 95 mill…” etc. etc. Even if he goes up to 5 years, vs. 6, I’m just curious as to where that line in the sand will be drawn.
And as you also mention that Furcal, J-Roll and A-gon will be on the market too. That just means that there are at least 3 more teams in the market for SS’s. So you have St. Loo, Angels, Phillies, Mets, possibly Seattle, Houston (should new management come in and want to make a splash), Dodgers (if they get sold)…
Anyway, back to your point, I hope they can get something set on a fewer year deal. Makes sense, but if the Angels dropped a 6 year deal on the table, you can’t stop but wonder what’s going thru Jose’s mind there.
STUCK, YEAH, THE OLD FEAR MONGERING LONE CRAZED OWNER ARGUEMENT; THAT’S THE NYPORTSPRESS VERSION OF THE LONE CRAZED SHOOTER WE SHOULD ALL BE FEARFUL OF. LET’S TRULY LOOK AT THE USUAL SUPECTS U R BRINGING UP:
STL: REALLY? A TEAM, THAT HAD TO BE DRAGGED OVER THE LOW TO MIDDLE PAYROLL DESIGNATION LINE IS SUDDENLY GOING TO RETAIN PUJOLS & MAKE REYES AN OFFER HE CAN’T REFUSE WHILE CONVINCING MRS. REYES & THE GIRLS HOW WIONDERFUL THE MIDWEST IS TOWARDS DOMINICAN HERITAGE FAMILIES?
ANGELS: DID U MISS MORENO’S DESIRE TO PARE DOWN HIS CURRENT $105M PAYROLL?& UNLIKELY TO INCREASE IT 20%!
PHILIES, DEALT LEE TO AFFOED HALIDAY, NOW WITH BOTH UNLIKELY TO QUADRUPLE WHAT THEY’RE PAYING J-TROLL TO INK REYES,
SEATTLE(86M) HOUSTON(92M) BETTER TO BELIEVE IN THE BOOGEYMAN
DODGERS? BNEVER COUNT ON ANY MARRIAGE DISOLUTION AS MANAGEABLE ESP IN LA.