Comments on: SaberMETrics Already Taking Shape In 2011

By: t agee

t agee — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:38:11 +0000

I don’t know if you realize this but Carlos Beltran’s HR’s have declined quite a bit as well. From a high of 41 in 2006 to 33 in 2007, 27 in 2008, 10 (in half a season) in 2009, 7 (in less than half a season) in 2010 and 20 in a full season in 2011.

Injuries would certainly explain some of that, decline, rustiness and protection would are probably in there too and people who follow the game understand all that.

No one’s laughing about it when it comes to Beltran. Why would anyone be laughing about it when it comes to Wright?

By: JoeD 1966

JoeD 1966 — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:41:19 +0000

Scoring runs and getting on base and is nonsense?That explains why your Idol is Omar Minaya.You’re both idiots but even Omar the choke maker understood the importance of Ob% and runs scored.At least he did until he brought in Francouer and Barajas.It’s pretty hard for our 3-4-5 hitters to drive in runs with no one on base.Hey but that would make sense now wouldn’t it.”You know what I’m sayin”. You don’t have to be a fan of sabermetrics to know the value of getting on base.All the good offenses are always among the leaders in that category.

By: JoeD 1966

JoeD 1966 — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:27:47 +0000

How do you explain the fact that we’re 3rd in the NL in hitting with RISP? 1.Cards 2.Phillies 3.Mets The talent is there 3-4-5.It’s a matter of them playing the way they’re capable. Even Wright who’s not a clutch hitter still has driven in 100+ runs in 5 out of 6 years entering this season.Ike went down and Bay forget how to hit but as a team they’re still #3 hitting in RBI situations.Bringing in the fences should only help Bay and Wright along with a healthy Davis hopefully and the offense should add power next year.

By: baby al

baby al — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 06:05:00 +0000

there is only one problem with this article…that is that the prople producing for geniusalderson are OMARS guys.give all the creddddddddddddit you want to the proper guy, OMAR.

By: JoeD 1966

JoeD 1966 — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 04:50:44 +0000

Why are they 13th in RBI? Bay who was brought here to do just that doesn’t,Wright went down for 2 months,even though he rarely hits in the clutch,his RBI totals are usually good,Beltran was traded,Ike went down leaving the team with no power and a bunch of singles hitters.They are 3rd in the NL in BA with RISP behind only St Louis and Philly so it’s becuase they don’t hit for any power as to why they rank near the bottom in RBI but they’re 5th in runs scored.If they pitched like Philly or Atl then no one would give a flyin that they’re 13th in RBI or whatever the actual number is.Credit Jeff Wilpon and Omar for the parks dimensions.Omar said when questioned about it that he wanted a pitchers park and a team built around pitching and defense but he forgot to get the pitchers.

By: JoeD 1966

JoeD 1966 — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 01:31:31 +0000

He didn’t do well here except fr one year when 50 year old El Duque anchored a staff trying to win it all and had no depth when guys went down hence Jose Lima and Jeremy Gonzalez getting starts.He did by the way acquire guys like Beltran and Delgado who are prime examples of sabermetric type players OB+Slug OPS. You’re so cluless it isn’t even funny.

By: OmarFan

OmarFan — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 00:49:53 +0000

Yeah, he’s the “Face of the Organization” don’t you DARE forget that.

By: OmarFan

OmarFan — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 00:48:29 +0000

LMFAO @ backdoor crediting Sabertoolshed garbage as the reason Omar did well here. He signed or traded for STAR PLAYERS.

Gotta love it!

By: JoeD 1966

JoeD 1966 — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 00:08:01 +0000

Omar hired a sabermatrician when he took the job as have most teams which is why the A’s no longer have that as an advantage,But we still have a few delusional Omar Fans(why I have no fkn clue) that think Alderson is all about sabermetrics and it won’t work even though he drafted nimmo and a bunch of high school kids based on scouting and projecting upside potential.Omar drafted for signability and present needs .BTW all teams use sabermetrics now.

By: JoeD 1966

JoeD 1966 — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 00:02:09 +0000

The Big Red Machine also led the league in LOB.That’s the result of getting a lot of guys on base.Of course we could use some help from guys who are supposed to drive in runs,Bay and Wright but as long as they’re among the league leaders in OB% they’ll always be among the leaders in LOB.Good offenses uaually are among the league leaders in OB% and
LOB.

By: Joe Spector

Joe Spector — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 23:26:13 +0000

Don’t you know Donal he’s just a terrible player that’s why. Why he’s even allowed to step on the field strikes me.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:44:04 +0000

Your done because I pointed out the aquillies heel in your OBP philosophy!

It’s not being on base that CAUSES a damn thing it is what the guy at the plate does with the BAT and how he HITS the ball!

You know what a HIT STAT is but a HIT STAT is a result not an act!
A RESULT doesn’t cause a run to score a result is a result that CAN be scored under multiple stat categories.

None of it gets recorded at all without some act by the batter…The ACT is called HITTING!

How you do that influences all those STATS you get to record AFTER THE FACT!

So a Batter CAN cause a run to score regardless of if he gets a hit or not!

Sac Fly scores a runner on third but no HIT is recorded yet the runner can not SCORE until the batter put that ball into play!

It is the batter HITTING the ball to the outfield that CAUSES the run to score!

In a HR no one is one base to CAUSE anything!
It is the Batter HITTING the ball over the fence that allows all the other ACTS to occurr!

I didn’t move a single pole!
You mistook a RESULT as the ACT!
It’s a HIT (ACT) because the batter connected bat to ball!
Not because hetouched first safely!

HITTING is about BAT and BALL not BASE!
Base is only important AFTER the HITTING has been done!

And thats why your .250/.400 OBP guy doesn’t score as many runs as the .300/.350 guy does!
because the /300/.350 guy is BETTER at hitting the ball than the .250/.400 guy is!

HE CAN DO!
The .250 guy needs the Pitcher to get his numbers!

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:01:57 +0000

“the HIT in this situation is the act of swinging a bat and connecting wioth the ball in a manner that gave the batter the right to run the bases!”

Well, I’m done. I can’t keep up up with all the goal post moving. We all know what a hit is. That’s the first thing you learn. Now you’ve re-defined it to fit your situation. Terrific. When someone yells to get a hit, they don’t mean “make contact with the ball in fair territory so that you may run the bases and see how far you get.”

They mean get a hit. Reach base safely. Baseball 101. A hit’s been a hit for 150 years and you change the meaning because you don’t understand what on base percentage means to an offense. You can’t get that or you refuse to acknowledge it because it makes your whole argument wrong.

I’m done. I got dinner to make before I catch three innings of the Yankees/Rays before 8:15.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:55:46 +0000

AHHH I see your problem….

can you not HIT a ball and still make an out?
the HIT in this situation is the act of swinging a bat and connecting wioth the ball in a manner that gave the batter the right to run the bases!

you HIT the ball, WHERE and HOW you hit it determines how many bases you get!

Reaching first does not CAUSE you to HIT THE BALL over the fence!

Your confusing a RESULT called a HIT with HITTING!

The act of HITTING is about connecting bat to ball!
Getting it hit is based on how well you do that act and without that act there is no hit, no run no OB nothing!

The run scored based on how he HIT the ball!
He hit the ball over the fence allowing him to touch every base because HITTING THE BASEBALL set the conditions that allowed the results to be scored!

Without the act of the HITTING there is nothing after that!
So the HITTING is what determines what happens afyter that!

This is the point your missing!
Your confusing a result with an ACT!
I’m talking about the ACT!
An Act that does not require anyone on base to perform!
You can HIT a HR without a sole on base.
And the fact that you DID hit that HR is what caused all the other parameters to be allowed!

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:41:52 +0000

I actually laughed out loud here.

“So the HIT AKA putting the ball in PLAY…”

Are you serious there? A six year old knows that merely putting the ball in play does not mean it’s a hit. You have to reach first base safely first. THEN it’s a hit.

“The HIT caused the run to score not the ON BASE!”

Dude, a hit IS getting on base. When a batter gets a hit,where does he go? The bathroom? No, he’s on a base. Whatever adds to OBP (hit,walk) will be the cause of runs scoring.

If everything you said didn’t prove my point further, I’d have logged off hours ago. What else you got? A hit can’t be recorded until the batter swings at a pitch? So swinging is now the cause of runs scoring?

By: Metsie

Metsie — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:33:54 +0000

AH HA!!!!!
SO putting the ball in play is the KEY!

When does that happen after he is on base or BEFORE?

So the HIT AKA putting the ball in PLAY causes everything that happens AFTER it and therefore is the CAUSE of the RUN because it not only determined he COULD run the bases but how many!

The HIT caused the run to score not the ON BASE!

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:27:20 +0000

No, he needs to put the ball in play first. When he reaches first base safely, he can then advance at his own risk (unless the ball was hit out of the ballpark). But nothing can happen unless first base is touched, at which point the hit or walk is safely recorded and the OBP is added to. Then any number of things can happen after to case the run to score. But the act of increasing the OBP, whichever it may be, has to occur first in every single run scoring scenario.

I think you’re just creating false arguments and attributing them to me so I can look wrong. You keep bringing up physics and foul balls and ground outs and other things that don’t even bring a runner to first base, let alone around the bases.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:16:12 +0000

“Because the base runner touched all four bases in order.”

Foul ball can the runner do that and score?
What allows him to touch all four bases?
Can he do it at ANYTIME he wants?
Or must he meets certain criteria before his touching of the bases actually is counted?

By: Metsie

Metsie — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:13:27 +0000

“Because the base runner touched all four bases in order.”

Can you hit into a ground out and run and touch all four bases and record a run?

Can you just take off on a run around the bases and score a run?

Or do you have to do something before you can do that?

Can a runner at home simply run to first on a wild pitch even and run around all the bases and record a run?

Can he hit a foul ball and run around the bases and have it scored based on the rulebook?

NO he can’t can he!
He has to DO SOMETHING BEFORE he has the right to run to a base!

It is THAT ACT that scores the run not the actual running to the base!

Your rulebook quotes are discussing what happens AFTER a hit is made!
It does not apply until AFTER the HIT!
The HIT causes that section of the rulebook to apply!

Without the hit none of those rules about touching bases apply!
Because without the hit your not ALLOWED to run the bases!

By: Metsie

Metsie — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:08:50 +0000

It’s confusing because you are looking at the section in the rulebook for RECORDING and not the section that says what allows you to do the things that NEED recording!

What does the rulebook say about hitting a ball over a fence and stop looking at the what they say about recording what happens AFTER he has hit the ball over the fence!

Your basing results on how they are recorded not by what CAUSES them to be recorded!

Being on base does not cause the ball to go over the fence therefore touching first does not CAUSE the ball to go over the fence and does not ALLOW you to touch the remaining bases so the scotre can be recorded!

it is the act of hitting the ball over the fence that ALLOWS you to touch first and all the remaining bases and not what had to happen AFTER the ball was hit over the fence!

Your using temporal mechanics to try and change the cause from the hit that ALLOWED the bases to be touch to touching tha bases!

it is the HIT that allows any base to be touched not the touching of the base that causes the HIT!

And you seem to think that his touching first caused the ball to go over the fence or that hitting the ball over the fence is not as important as touching first!
But you can’t touch first without first hitting the ball someplace where they could not get you out!

ALL RUNS ARE SCORED based on something that happened in the batters box not based on who was on base or where they were.
A runner on 2nd can not CAUSE a batter to get an RBI! The Batter still has to do something!