Even Emaus and Beato were a lot less about 2011 than 2012-2017. Adding to, as opposed to subtracting from the young talent base was the name of the game. Dickey was more about getting us to those guys in 2014. Even Hu was here simply to guard against the worst case scenario. No one being able to field a ball at 2B even for just the 9th inning.

As a brand new GM never having seen a single player (except a few in winter ball) it would have been real easy to make mistakes. Sure the pitching needed help but that wasn’t the biggest concern heading into 2011. We don’t even know for sure who Alderson even made offers to. The pen’s been bad for years. You just can’t fix everything in one off season. Harang wanted to play in SD. Garland got hurt and it came as no surprise since LA knew about the injury when they signed him. Millwood never made it back, Wang got about 10 starts, Colon never even got a mention. Choate took 2/2.5 Minstead of 1/1.5 M.
We have an additonal roster spot to protect someone in the rule 5 draft. Two if we drop Carassco and that move was a bomb. Not everyone is going to work out. Hopefully we won’t have as many bad one’s as that but if we do, Alderson will be gone.

It’s easy to say now that with no injury to Ike, no trade of Beltran and K-Rod we could have won 15 more games but that then you have to subtract the contribution of Murphy and Duda or maybe Murphy plays 2B and Turner’s contribution is lost and Tejada’s limited to 6 weeks. Duda wouldn’t have even come up until September if Beltran’s not traded. Tejada doesn’t come up either if Murphy and Turner are playing 2B and Reyes doesn’t get hurt so s lot of his contribution is erased.

Now Duda, Murphy, Tejada, Turner, Gee have made strides. Strides that wouldn’t have been possible WITHOUT the injuries or the trade of Beltran who was never coming back here for so many different reasons it’s not even worth discussing.

I picked the Mets to win 76 games this year before opening day and that’s either where they will wind up or within a game of it. I based it on a lot of different things, some of which I was right about and others I was wrong about but that’s the way I saw it.

I also didn’t see any reasonable scenario in which we win the Division because of Philly so right away your chances of gaining a spot are dependent on beating out Atlanta, Cinn, Milw, St. Louis (didn’t see AZ coming, didn’t expect much from the West wild card wise, did expect better from Cinn) but a realitic chance of beating them all out? No. I didn’t see it under any circumstances. Too many questions and many of those questions were answered as well as you could have hoped. Collins, Beltran, Gee’s first 10 games, Murphy, Tejada, Duda and Turner’s hitting but it’s just unrealistic to expect every question to come back the best possible way.

Could we have won the wild card? Sure if 100 things for us and the other teams in the hunt all went our way we could have gotten it. Maybe if Parnell, Acosta, Izzy, Beato were all setting down their guys in the 6th, 7th and 8th. Bay WAS hitting at least league average for a LFer. Thole was handling the staff and catching the ball. Pagan played as he did in 2010, Pelfrey was better, Wright and Reyes weren’t hurt at all and that’s just with us.

Somethings went our way, others didn’t. That’s the way it usually works, for every team.

Cashen inherited Mazzili and turned him into Darling and Terril. Traded Terril for Hojo. Diaz and Bailor for Sid. Neil Allen and Ownby for Hernandez. Brooks and Fitzgerald along with two of his prospects for Carter. Trevino for Foster. Mookie Wilson, Orosco. The first pick in the draft.

Phillips inherited plenty of decent players Isringhausen, Everett, Burnett, Cruz, Ordonez, Alfonzo, Bobby Jones, Hundley, Gilkey, Johnson, Pratt, Rick Reed, Payton, Agbayani, John Franco, Preston Wilson, John Olerud, lots of guys.

Was it a full team leading the Division? Of course not. Rarely are GM’s canned when their winning the Division anyway. Phillips took over a team on pace to win 88 games. They finished with 88 wins. Next year with Leiter and Piazza won 88 again. The following year 97, then 94, 82, 75 and 66 (burning the farm to get there)

Minaya inherited a lot less than Phillips but he also had some things to work with most notably Reyes and Wright, Floyd, Cameron, Piazza, Glavine, Benson, Seo, Trachsel, Bell, Heilman, Gomez, Humber, Milledge, Flores. A few things to work with and most importantly a lot of money to work with to build it up quickly.

He also made some smart under the radar type moves, got a couple hold the fort type guys and a few big time free agents and then a couple of salary dumps in Delgado and Johan.

He also made some more very good pickups in the off season of under the radar type guys and intelligently filled out the bullpen and went to work in international free agency to get the farm going but ultimately the actual on field results were 83, 97, 88, 89, 70 and 79 using the same template Phillips did (with a lot less to work with) in order to achieve quick results.

Obviously no one can compare the two because of their work on the farm. Phillips used whatever he inherited and what little he produced in order to achieve the results he did while Minaya actually added quite a bit of depth to the farm (job #1) and some high ceiling talent (job #2) and to his credit didn’t strip the farm bare in his last years.

So sure Alderson inherited some talent. Hell, they all did, even Cashen, but using the same template Phillips and Minaya did in order to achieve quick results, rather than sustained one’s like Cashen, would only result in the same old, same old. Never going to change.

I don’t want an exciting three year period followed by diminishing returns leading to yet another crash. Year two shouldn’t be the pinnacle of your teams success. If it is then your receiving the fruits of someone else’s work or you’ve settled for the quick fix.

One thing that has been proven around here time and time again is that the quick fix is all too quick and followed in short order by the quick crash that takes a NUMBER of years to climb out of and frequently leads to our worst seasons.

In fact our two worst seasons by far in the last two decades came while trying to throw money at the thing AFTER it had run it’s course. 1993 (Harazin 59-103) and 2003 (Phillips 66-96) That’s what Alderson is trying to avoid by not going for the quick fix. Those teams subtracted out talent that needed to be added to the system to fund future years teams. That’s the opposite of what Alderson did with Beltran and that’s the kind of move that will keep his 2nd year from being his best year and then followed by diminishing returns. The fact that Alderson does have some things to work with in the minors only makes this a much more viable strategy, not less.

Ohhh and no one every debates the topic.

You just always have the last word and it’s usually the last “novel” not the last word. Like I said before, i think you are OUT THERE, man.

And if your going to bring up Agee at least learn to spell his name correctly.

And back to the ‘crap’ you mentioned? What mess did he inherit?
Any GM would have cut Castillo and Perez so that’s that.

And Alderson inherited a lineup “AT THE TIME” (must emphasize that around here) of Reyes, Murphy, Beltran, Davis, Wright, Bay, Pagan, Paulino/Thole

That’s not that bad a lineup at all he inherited, in fact it’s a lineup that you could start to build a contender for 2011 with. Okay the pitching wasn’t that great but we still had a closer and in my opinion Alderson did a LOUSY job this off season because I think he believed he didn’t have the weapons to contend with so he made a half-hearted attempt at trying to win last winter.

Now remember I said AT THE TIME. This is before Davis would get injured, Emaus would fail, Bay would wind up not hitting again, Tejada coming of age as a starter and never going back to the minors again, and same with Duda.

This isn’t like when Frank Cashen inherited the Mets after years of being awful, Alderson inherited a good time that needed a little help mainly in the pitching department.

Maybe some things OFF the field needed to be cleaned up, like the culture and hiring a new MGR (although that should be considered on the field) I don’t see where Alderson had to clean up a lot of crap like you said because he inherited a nice team

As for the Braves what I have pointed out is HOW they build their teams. Does that mean I expect it to work out for them every year? No of course not. Their suspeptible to a choke job just like everyone else but they don’t have to go and fill a million holes on the ML roster every year. They still have LOTS of players with their primes in front of them. Well rounded players who will be there for years to come. Players who they have scouted, drafted, signed, and developed who came up here able to close games, get voted to All Star games, get considerable consideration for ROY, even get MVP votes in their rookie seasons. Not just a couple of them either. Lots of them.

Is that a guarantee that they’ll go to the playoffs every year? NO. It’s not, but they did go 14 straight seasons doing things the way they do and now their back for more while we’re still spinning our wheels.

My complaints haven’t been about the young prospects that we’ve brought up as much as it’s been about how overall one dimensional they’ve been. Good on one side of the ball or the other. Not both. Or how they weren’t yet ready to play even close to a potential ROY level when they arrived and how certain positions were completely ignored around here for years causing us to constantly try to address it after the fact, frequently with worse results than we could have gotten from a non tender or player who had been waived.

I also highly doubt that all the blame will be placed on just one guy if the Braves do choke it up by their fan base three four years after the choke job.

You call it a long manifesto – most people call it backing up an argument with facts, sorry you don’t have the attention span to read it.

Show me a post a legitimate post where anyone said they like him because he’s good looking.

If Annie Savoy said it, and please provide the post, she does NOT speak for everyone, nor do YOU.

The only one choking around here is you on your own lies, insecurities and ignorance.

But low and behold look who may win the Wild Card now? Why didn’t he talk about the Cardinals? Because they weren’t the leader at the time? And don’t forget how much he talked about the SF Giants and how much the Mets should do things like them too but that talks stopped when the Giants faded. Funny huh? Actually it’s not funny and it’s pathetic and shows you what that guy is all about. He’s a nut case who writes 159 paragraph posts and expects people to stop what they’re doing and read them.

The guy can sit here and list a hundred names everyday but when it comes to substance it’s not there. Oh and when he loses an argument he’ll come right back and type a long manifesto with all kinds of original and creative rationalizations and just rambles on into the twilight zone trying to deflect.

Folks if the Cardinals win be ready for a million posts by this t agee guy on how the Mets should do things like the Cardinals.

Tommy Agee would be turning in his grave right now.

Who cares what he looks like? What does that have to do with anything?

As for criticizing Delgado, Beltran or Reyes when was this? When have you ever written a negative word about any of them? Ever? You constantly, everyday rant on about Wright, now even talking about his looks for God sake. Unbelivable.

Wright’s 2008 is constantly put forward as the reason we lost yet he had a much better 2008 than Delgado and 2007 Delgado wasn’t even close to Wight in production. In fact Delgado had one of the worst years offensively of any first basemen in the majors and it’s not like he was making it back on defense or the base paths either. You would never hear about it from you though. Oh no. Wright’s fair game everyday but never a word about about Delgado. Not even one. .258/.359/.483 24 Hr’s 30 2B, 87 RBI really is not even an average season for a 1B. He was about the Majors 20th best first basemen that year. 20th out of 30. Maybe even less as some teams probably platooned a couple of guys. Less than average, below his standards, not what we were paying for. Whatever you want to call it. Not you though Alex. You bring up 2008 and Wright almost everyday but never Delgado. Never even once. Nada, nada, nunca.

.325/.416/.546 30 HR’s, 40 2B, 107 RBI is well above average for a 3B. Well above and far superior to Delgado’s 2007 but you’ld never know it from Alex. Nor would you know that down the stretch in 2007 Reyes went 14-75 in the last 18 games. .186 BA + 8 walks That was clutch? Must be according to Alex. We never hear him complain about Reyes down the stretch in 2007, only Wright down the stretch in 2008. Then again though as Alex points out Wright is “Ameri-can” what ever that means so perhaps he’s held to a higher standard for that reason, and according to Alex is good looking so maybe that could be the reason as well.

I think it’s time to seek medical advise………..

incredibly sick……………

Aroyyo .286 .321 vs Lefties
Volquez .261 .270 Vs Lefties
vs
Ohlendorf .377 .396 vs Righty
Locke .327 .341 vs Righty

Reyes is definitly facing the tougher pitchers compared to Braun as far a BA against is concerned.

It’s the other million or so people that stopped showing up since 2008 that are the problem.

Really? Do you have anything to back that up?

How about you stop making baseless and false accusations and try and talk about baseball using facts? Or is that too difficult?

People aren’t going now.

my take on that is, he realizes the magnituted of losing a jose reyes, if he doesn’t sign him ppl in this town will create a riot and stop going to the game, but also, he’s saying if we commit to him we won’t sign anybody else because we’re not trying to spend money.. amazing.. for those who were thinking CJ wilson, bid adieu