Comments on: More On Pelfrey’s Awful Season

By: Metstheory22

Metstheory22 — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:57:59 +0000

And they were all expendable for better pitching.

By: Metstheory22

Metstheory22 — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:56:21 +0000

Just what I was going to say.
200 bad innings are 200 bad innings.
Imagine having Pelfrey, Lowe, and Lackey on same team as fans wanted when Lowe and Lackey were free agents.
I guess we should have kept Ollie Perez and Castillo. They gave us “innings” as a pitcher and 2nd baseman.
Bad innings are bad innings, hitting or pitching.

By: Lifelongmetsfan

Lifelongmetsfan — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 13:24:35 +0000

your smarty-pants common sense, intelligent comment blows my silly Met-logic-thinking out of the water.

By: Lifelongmetsfan

Lifelongmetsfan — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 13:19:31 +0000

oh! Goodness me I forgot to include “Years of Service”!! Well. Lets see now…..
Mike Pelfrey 4 yrs of service = $350,000

So, add that to Pelf’s contract and we have… 3yrs/5,350,000

The Mets will sign Pelfrey to a 3yr/$5,350,000

Thank you.

By: NJstuckinTX

NJstuckinTX — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 13:17:29 +0000

Considering the FA SP market next year is far superior to the 2012 FA SP market, I’m pretty sure they’ll go arb only this year and be done with him after the 2012 season. And if he does pitch like a champion this year, you offer him arb, he’ll decline and you net a pick, assuming his stellar record actually warrants a type B pick.

By: Lifelongmetsfan

Lifelongmetsfan — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 13:14:48 +0000

The Price if a major League starting pitcher is not just “sent” from contract to contract. The salary is determined by what the market will pay. The market will pay any pitcher who can pitch 200 innings at least 3 million a year bottom basement price..add on years of service.. potential to improve… past performance..
Lets take Mike Pelfrey for example…
200 innings = 3 million a year
past performance + 1 million (recent 15 game winner)(12 game winner)
potential to improve add another 1 million dollars
Add it all up and what do we get = 5 million a year salary for Mike Pelfrey

I figure the Mets will sing Pelfrey to a 3yr/5million dollar contract
Thank you.

By: NJ stuck in TX

NJ stuck in TX — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:56:31 +0000

So, your point is that because Pelf is “underpaid” in comparison to 6 other over paid and for the most part putrid pitchers he’ll deserve a raise? I’ve no doubt he’ll get a raise, as that is just how the system works. That said, you have AJ, who the Yanks very well may consider leaving off the playoff roster; Lowe, who can’t get unloaded by the Braves, even though they have a large surplus of SPs, and the others that are basically throwing up stats that a back of the rotation pitcher throws out there…

Are you even looking at these numbers you are putting out there? Gee and Niese, which you posted below, put out these stats:

Jonathan Niese 11-11 era: 4.40 whip: 1.41 innings: 178 salary: $452,000 yr.

Dylan Gee 13-6 era: 4.43 whip: 1.37 innings: 160.2 salary: (?? 425,000 ??}

Why would you want to pay 15.25 mil, 16.5 mil, 15 mil, 11.5 mil, 13.5 mil, 8 mil (for the above overpaid bomb brigade or lets assume 6 mil for Pelfrey next year when you can plug in the above (Niese/Gee) for 5 million less? It’s not even being Moneyball, or Madoff Mets or Freddy Coupons or what ever you want to call it. It’s just being smart.

Pelf is a career average of 102 Ks, 4.40 ERA, 1.459 Whip, 201 innings. 200+ innings… of subpar pitching. yippee…

By: NJ stuck in TX

NJ stuck in TX — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:27:18 +0000

What good is throwing 200 innings if they aren’t good innings? I understand no pitcher throws 200 good innings, but throwing out upper 4′s to lower 5′s ERA for 200 innings is bad.

By: Lifelongmetsfan

Lifelongmetsfan — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 06:07:53 +0000

Only something like 43 starting pitchers throw 200+ innings in the major leagues last year. How many Major League starting pitchers are there, 140? give or take…
So out of 140 starting pitchers in the major leagues Mike Pelfrey was among the 40 pitchers who threw 200innings.

By: Lifelongmetsfan

Lifelongmetsfan — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 05:59:58 +0000

And another thing before I log off… people don’t seem to appreciate what a pitcher consistently throwing 200+ inngs in a year means. Over the course of a season that is 6.2 innings a start.

9 innings – 6.1/3 innings = 2.2/3 innings remaining in a game.

That in itself is worth a base salary of 3+ million a year.

Why would a major league team be willing to pay a .500 pitcher with a 4.55era over 3 million dollars a year?? Gee. I don’t know, could it be because you know every time that pitcher takes the mound you know you will most likely be in the game, every game he pitches going into the 7th inning?

Can Jonathan Neise give us this? No.
Can Dillan Gee gives us this? No.
Can Chris Capuano give us this? No.
Can R.A. Dickey give us this? YES!
That is why the Mets are willing to pay R.A. Dickey 4 Million+ a year!

innings + potential consistent 15 game winner = Mike Pelfrey getting paid!

By: Lifelongmetsfan

Lifelongmetsfan — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 05:25:57 +0000

It may be helpful for the purpose of this discussion to compare Pefrey to other Met pitchers from the past to get a sense prospective.
Just off the top of My head I would say that Pefrey compares favorably t:o
Ron Darling, Craig Swan, Booby Jones, Pat Zachary, Steve Trachsel, etc..

By: Lifelongmetsfan

Lifelongmetsfan — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 05:18:54 +0000

“Forget that seasons like this could be aberrations for guys like Arroyo, Lackey, Burnett and any of the other ones. Forget that the next season any one of those guys can give you a solid year.”

Bayonne, These pitchers did have a “solid year.” This is the major league starting pitching market. I think part your frustration lies with your expectations. What do you expect an average starting pitchers year to look like?

By: OmarFan

OmarFan — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 05:14:42 +0000

Pelfrey has been tinkered WAY too much as a pro. Here’s a guy who had a wicked breaking ball in college. He was full over the top on his curve and hit mid 90′s on the gun with the heat. Give thanks to our resident idiot Peterson, who wants everyone to be a sinker ball pitcher. Pelfrey should have been groomed as the power guy he was in college. His fastball tails nicely, but they stopped him from using the overhand breaking ball. This current pitching coach is doing nothing for him either.

Pelfrey isn’t an ace, but he isn’t a bum either. This is an organizational flop featuring two dopes as pitching coaches. Pelfrey is the guy who loses unfortunately.

By: Lifelongmetsfan

Lifelongmetsfan — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 05:08:38 +0000

Bayonne your trying to be cutesy,glibishly funny but your not pulling it off.
Pelfrey stays because he is a comparable pitcher to other starting pitchers throughout the league and can be signed for the next several years at a below market price. It’s not about finger-licking, shoulder slumping, perceptions, it’s about statistics. The reality is that even when having a terrible year Pelfrey is a mainstay on the Met pitching staff. The reality is that even while having a terrible year Pelfrey’s statistics are on par with other starting pitchers being paid a lot more money. If the Mets can lock Pelfrey up for the next 3 yrs at
7 million-9 million a year they will have made a very smart investment.

By: Bayonne Mets Fan

Bayonne Mets Fan — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 04:49:46 +0000

Oh great, Pelfrey didn’t cost a lot now I feel better. Maybe Craig Lerner was right and the season is a success after all. Pelfrey sucked for less than I thought, wonderful!

Maybe they should rename this site FinancialPlanningErized! because everybody’s an accountant now.

Forget that seasons like this could be aberrations for guys like Arroyo, Lackey, Burnett and any of the other ones. Forget that the next season any one of those guys can give you a solid year.

I guess the smarter we lose the better, right?

Pelfrey’s checking and savings account aside maybe it’s time he moved on.

By: Lifelongmetsfan

Lifelongmetsfan — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 04:34:02 +0000

This is our pitching staff, even with Pelfrey having a horrible, no good very bad year he compares very favorably to the rest of our starting pitchers. And people say, “Don’t resign Pelfrey because he had a poor year! We’re angry with Mike Pelfrey so lets get him back by not offering him a contract! Yeah that will show him! And all us Met fans will feel so much better about our self!” WRONG!

R.A. Dickey 8-13 era: 3.28 whip: 1.227 innings: 208.2 salary: 2.25 million 2011; (2012 4.25 million)

Jonathan Niese 11-11 era: 4.40 whip: 1.41 innings: 178 salary: $452,000 yr.

Dylan Gee 13-6 era: 4.43 whip: 1.37 innings: 160.2 salary: (?? 425,000 ??}

Chris Capuano 11-12 era: 4.55 whip: 1.36 innings: 180 salary: 1.5 million yr.

Mike Pelrey 7-13 era: 4.74 whip: 1.47 innings: 193.2 salary: 3.925 Million a yr.

By: Lifelongmetsfan

Lifelongmetsfan — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 03:57:11 +0000

OH My God your all STILL complaining about Mike Pelfrey! Fellow Met fans your idiots!
Pelfrey is a good pitcher who has an upside. Yes, right now he is not pitching well but the very fact that we, the unpaid non-professional baseball fan recognize that Pefrey is capable of so much more is telling in itself. Here is just a small sampling.. and yes of course Pelfrey will get a raise he is underpaid as it is.
See 2011 pitcher comparisons below:

MIke Pelfrey 7-13 era: 4.74 whip: 1.47 inngings: 193.2 salary: 3.95 million a yr.

Jon Lackey 12-12 era: 4.63 whip: 1.62 inngs: 160 salary: 15.25 million a yr.

A.J. Burnett 11-11 era: 5.16 whip: 1.44 inngings: 190 salary: 16.5 million a yr.

Derek Lowe 9-16 era: 4.92 whip: 1.51 inngings: 183 salary: 15 million a yr.

Bronson Arroyo 9-12 era: 5.09 whip: 1.37 innings: 191 salary: 11.5 million a year

Ryan Dempster 10-13 era: 4.53 whip: 1.43 innings: 196.2 salary: 13.5 million a yr.

Carl Pavano 8-13 era: 4.48 whip: 1.39 innings: 213 salary: 8 million a year

By: Donal

Donal — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 01:00:22 +0000

Whatever you say, La Flama Blanca.

“The same clowns that don’t believe in clutch, the same clowns who worship David Wright more because of how his stats look on paper rather than how his stats look on the field – which is most of the time window dressing.”

Gold. Pure gold.

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 00:58:42 +0000

Wait, I don’t believe in clutch? I worship David Wright? Or does that just help you sleep better at night.

By: Bayonne Mets Fan

Bayonne Mets Fan — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 00:54:18 +0000

I have the Two Clowns laughing at something that refers to big hits meaning big wins. The same clowns that don’t believe in clutch, the same clowns who worship David Wright more because of how his stats look on paper rather than how his stats look on the field – which is most of the time window dressing.

I have an idea why don’t you two misanthropes get together with Craig Lerner and write another piece on how this season was a success.