1
2011
Alderson Says Mets Are Not In Position To Spend This Offseason
An article by 
For those among you who have waited patiently for this season to end, a season in which the lack of payroll flexibility was the cure-all for why no significant moves were made to bolster the team, don’t expect this offseason to be much different from the last one.
For nearly a year, the Mets and their apologists have had their auto-responders set to – “It’s not Alderson’s fault for the lack of payroll flexibility, blame Omar.”
Now, eleven months later, with a payroll that has shed almost $70 million dollars since April, the alarm has been sounded. Here are comments that general manager Sandy Alderson made to reporters in Buffalo last night:
“We can’t spend at will the same way they can spend. And we’re not going to attempt to try to do that, at least not over the next several years. Our revenues, basically we’ve got to get people back in the ballpark to generate the kind of revenues that would be needed to have an even larger payroll. But the fact is, even at $100 million or $110 million, we’re still in the upper echelon of payrolls. That ought to allow us plenty of latitude.”
Let me repeat the most significant part of his statement:
Our revenues, basically we’ve got to get people back in the ballpark to generate the kind of revenues that would be needed to have an even larger payroll.
Blame the fans?
The Mets currently have about $70 million dollars in guaranteed payroll commitments going into next season, so why the alert? That figure is down from the near $145 million that was understandably too high going into this season – in fact it’s less than half – and that’s assuming they sign Jose Reyes. If they don’t, drop that number down to about $55 million.
“When you have $75 million of that tied up in four or five players, some of whom aren’t playing, it’s not a good situation to be in where you’re trying to fill out the rest of the team and be competitive in a very difficult division,” the GM said.
Is that a warning that Jose Reyes may not be re-signed? Or that David Wright will be traded?
What exactly are they trying to say?
The front office are already giving indications that both Mike Pelfrey and Angel Pagan may be non-tendered. As a matter of fact, in the last 48 hours the conversation about who plays centerfield in 2012 has sounded a lot like Angel Pagan’s departure is more than just a foregone conclusion, his name is never in the conversation at all. (By the way, I wouldn’t have a problem with non-tendering either of them.)
How do you feel about this?
Does it sound like they are about to shift from “Blame Omar” to “Blame the Fans”, or is that just me?
Alderson also said “It’s very difficult, unless you’re one of a couple of teams, to have three, four guys making $15 million-plus.” A couple of teams? Just the teams in our area alone have at least 3-4 players making $15 million or more and that includes the Red Sox, Phillies and Yankees, and yet I don’t see them lamenting over payroll.
The Mets are pretty much saying that unless fans start flocking to Citi Field in droves – they still won’t have payroll flexibility to make any significant additions to the team. So basically, all that hogwash about the Mets having an extra $70 million to spend after this season, was just a bunch of hot air intended to fan our hopes for a better 2012.
Alderson seems to take a direct shot at Jason Bay when he said, “if you invest $15 million, you hope you’re going to get $15 million worth of performance. We haven’t always gotten that.”
The fact is that he was getting that from Carlos Beltran and Francisco Rodriguez before their trades, and he is still getting that from Jose Reyes who may or may not return. It’s David Wright and Jason Bay who haven’t played at a level commensurate with their significant salaries in my opinion.
This is going to be one heck of a Hot Stove season for the Mets. In fact the whole damned stove may simply blow up into a huge fireball and mushroom cloud that could be seen from Atlanta, Philadelphia, Washington and Florida.
Site Note – We Need Your Help!
Listen readers, we are having major problems trying to keep this site going beyond this month. Our expenses to run a site this large are out of control and we desperately need your help if we are to keep Mets Merized Online up and running beyond the next 2-3 weeks. We don’t have the luxury of a huge sponsor or the revenue from being part of a huge blog network. Basically, it’s just me, and I can’t afford it without some assistance from time to time. If there is anyway you can help, please click on the “please donate” button at the top of our site. Thank you for your help and support.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
154 Comments + Add Comment
Recent Comments
- ray sadecki: on 3 Up & 3 Down: The Bar Is Now Open Edition: Good article. Yes, this year has been...
- Hank: on MLB Scout On Davis: Would Have Been Better Served Going To Minors Last Season: Thank you very much. You nailed it....
- Donal: on So Where Are All Those Moneyball Players?: Wasting a season? Like Ike Davis? Or...
- Heybatter: on MLB Scout On Davis: Would Have Been Better Served Going To Minors Last Season: Scout says Ike should have gone down...
- Mr North Jersey: on So Where Are All Those Moneyball Players?: If I were to name the players...
MMO Mets Chat
Need Tickets To The Mets Game?
Check Out These Great MLB Links!
Photographs From Gordon Donovan
5391 Fans Follow Us On Twitter!
1269 Fans Like Us On Facebook!
2341 Fans Read Our Feed!
1702 Fans Subscribe via Daily Email!
Not in the least bit surprising despite those who want to keep pretending the Mets have wads of cash.
I just worry that Pagan’s replacement will be Pridie. Couldn’t care less about Pelfrey.
Is there a way to shed some of Bay’s payroll? There is no one I want to see less in a Mets uniform than Bay.
SMALL MARKET MENTALITY.. moneyball, HERE WE COME!!
i read this in the morning and i was going to post it, is pathetic and embarrassing what’s going on with this org, the owners are expecting losses since 2009 yet we havent seen a concrete evidence of the losses, the payroll will be shed by app 60 million or so, most likely we’ll have a team of 3 or 4 guys making 10+ million, and a bunch of “low risk high reward” players, maybe rule V players again, i mean, wow.. mets fans should be prepare for the worst this upcoming 2012 season, there might be a possibility of no reyes or not wright on the team, and get used to the fact that this team will prob be even WORST than it will be expected next year.. if the 2010-2011 offseason was just HORRENDOUS for out beloved GM, i am expecting and EVEN WORST offseason from him (if that is possible).. but hey, nimmo and wheeler will be here around 2014-2015 to save the franchize..
well, there could be one positive come out of all this.
maybe you will move over to the yankees and leave the Met fan base that likes to come to boards like this in peace.
and please, enough with this implying that Alderson is some kind of small market mentality. The Mets are a business, and they have to keep expenses in line with revenue. That is all he was saying, and as a GM, he gets handed a budget to live within.
I highly doubt that if Fred handed him an extra 50mill to spend, he would refuse to touch the dirty money!
can’t wait to see this comments thread…
But, even working with your numbers, it seems to be consistant with what most people thought. They would spend some of the freed up money, but not all.
so, look at it as they have about 40mill to spend this off season to be in the 100-110 range where IMO it was clear they planned to be.
Pagan and Pelf? well, those are guys that you do have a tough call to make on them, but if you reasonably think you can replace average to below average performance with a cheaper option, do it, and use the extra payroll $$ elsewhere.
and hell yeah, that was a clear shot at Bay (the one about paying 15mill, you would like to get 15mill worth of output!)
the core has been saying this from the get go.welcome to the small market mets.last place here we come to stay.
yeah i hope those guys enjoy watching the last place team their messiah has contructed for them for the next seven years.the early eighties all over again.
As opposed to what we’ve been watching that last few seasons?
Do you feel better watching a $140 million dollar team that can’t beat the Nationals?
yup. every small market team has a 110mill payroll.
but, I guess if your attendance says small market, you must be.
this team,ownership and front office are a complete joke.and they expect us to be enthusiastic about this team,while they turn it into the pirates.
Find me a small market team with a $120 million payroll.
take out bay and santana whats our payroll,if they could they would get rid of them to and you know it.
So, take out two of our biggest contracts?
OK, take out Rodriguez and Sabathia and where does that leave the Yankees?
Take out Halliday and Howard next year and where does that leave Philly?
That was just a silly thing to say.
and they should try and move both of them. Not because they make a lot of money, but because they aren’t very effective anymore.
Not a surprise. Is the phrase, “..not in a position to spend this off season.” code for get prepared for for essentially the same Met team in 2012 but without Jose Reyes?
No, instead it is get prepared for much worse in 2012.
They are just making excuses for the fact they are not going to spend any money on the major league team. Trying to justify their unjustifiable behavior. The Mets think they know which came first, the chicken or the egg. That’s why they can’t understand how the mean n’ nasty fans won’t come out and spend a freaking fortune for a day of minor league quality, home-team baseball. And that park. Is Fred Wilpon an absolute idiot? Who approved the OF dimensions in the first place? Can’t Wilpon do anything right? Last nite DWright hit two HR’s….but they BOTH went for doubles off the leftfield wall! What a joke. How can we ever get anywhere with owners like these? Alderson has his work cut out for him trying to fix this mess while taking orders from Mutt & Jeff. But I’ll say one thing, if Sandy wants to rip Jason Bay for two seasons in which he has been virtually useless, at over $16 mil, per season, then I say “let him.” Oh, and as far as non-tendering Pagan and the big Pelf, I won’t be sorry to see either one go, but why couldn’t we have traded them by now in an attempt to, at least, get something back?
You said it brother! I couldn’t agree with you more. We should have traded Pagan at the deadline for at least a bullpen arm. They want us to spend $500 for a family of 4 to see this mess of a team? No thanks! I went to go see the Cyclones and paid $160 for all four of us for great seats and great ballpark food.
$500?? try almot $1200 for 2 consecutive games for a family of 3!!!!! to go see GARBAGE on the field..
$1200? were you sitting in the dugout? Did you go to the food stands and say “yes, i’ll take that half of the menu, 18 beers and 1 diet coke?”
stuckintx, you’d be surprise.. lol..
he also points out, fans are not going to the game, therefore we don’t have “payrol flexibility”.. well, had you or the front office to help this team out by adding good players on the roster instead of guys like hu, eamus, thayer, boyer, carrasco, chris young and his 4 starts, willie harris, hairston etc i don’t think we’d be watching from home..
they look for any excuse available instead of just come out and say: ” we are not spending, we will either trade wright to sign reyes, or let reyes go because there’s no $ to sign him”.. is pathetic the excuses they’re coming up with.. and another thing, for the price of pretty much everything they charging at citi field, 110 Million dollar payroll is a small market team..
They just don’t understand that to get the fans into the seats, they have to put a quality product on the field. Excellence on the field comes first and then attendance follows. They are in a vicious circle of declining performance which has not hit bottom and don’t even realize it. Very sad!! The names they have come up with have been ridiculous. I get sick every time Carrasco sets foot on the field. So much for the brilliant small ball and Moneyball approach. To play that game you have to be very capable in player evaluation. It’s obvious this mgmt does not have those skills even with all the big bucks to keep DePodesta and Ricciardi in their fancey offices.
This absolutely sad to hear. I was trying to be patient but now they are going to far. I will always love my Mets no matter what, but they make it so hard sometimes.
you said it gina,they make it hard to be a mets fan.nothing but bs excuses.the whole front office is completely inept, period.
6 months is not patient.
6 months?? isn’t our gm going into his 2 offseason as a met gm?? he was given a pass based on “it’s omar’s fault”, but now is his time to shine isn’t it?? well, it doesn’t look like too much shining will be in place..
How long did it take Frank Cashen to turn the team into a Champion?
Cashen came to New York in 1980 and the the Mets were above .500 in 1984 after 8 straight years under.
Also, if MLB used its current divisional and playoff structure back then, the Mets would have made the playoffs, usually winning the division, every year from 84-90. Who knows what would have happened in October then.
Is 3 or 4 years worth waiting for something like that?
Hey genius! Alderson inherited a .500 team…….
79-83 is under .500. Check your math
That’s a .500 team more or less. Don’t nitpick, stupid.
No, its not. And neither is a 70-92 team like the 2009 Mets.
4 YEARS IDIOT
Yeah, calling me an idiot is not insulting……………..
Hippocrate
So Frank Cashen took 4 years, and Sandy is the worst GM in history because he couldn’t turn this mess around in less then 1 year.
Right, and I’m the idiot………….
Hey genius! Alderson inherited a .500 team. Omar and Cashen inherited COMPLETE DISASTERS.
Minaya had the luxury of adding about $20M to the payroll (Pedro and Beltran), plus Wright having a breakout year. Alderson had to slash payroll by $14M and didn’t have an all star coming into his prime (Ike may have been, but he’s injured). And before you say that Omar won more with less money, that 2004 team didn’t have any dead weight noncontributors like Bay, Santana, Perez, Castillo, and we all know who signed those guys.
See where OmarFan is lost in a daze is that you continue to live with this belief that somehow Sandy Alderson controls the budget that he has to work with.
You refuse to understand that the Mets financial situation in the Winter of 2010 is much different than it was prior to 2005 when Minaya took over.
That’s a fact, there’s literally no way to refute that statement.
Yet, you act as though the Wilpon’s are saying “here’s $150mil” and Sandy is saying “no thanks I only want 80mil”
The GM gets a budget to work within from his owners. It’s cut and dry. If the GM wants to spend over budget, he doesn’t just do it. The owner gives the go ahead.
If you’re trying to tell me from 2005-2009 that Omar Minaya didn’t have an open checkbook, then you’re just lying I’m sorry.
When Minaya took over the team he had a franchise that sniffed a World Series in 00 and lost to their bigger and meaner brother and then went into a downward spiral. He inherited owners that wanted to spend, spend spend and he also inherited 2 budding young superstars in Jose Reyes and David Wright.
He inherited a team that had their future already in place. Everybody knew that Reyes and Wright were the future of this franchise for the next 8-10 years. He knew what he had to build around because the plan was in place.
It was an exciting time to be a Mets fan because the future was about to happen.
Sandy doesn’t have any of that. Stop pretending that the 2 situations are similar.
There are so many differences between the two situations it defies common sense that anyone would even attempt to compare the two.
Obviously it’s just an attempt to push an agenda.
Minaya had the cash to spend, Alderson didn’t.
Alderson has a fair amount of pretty damn good looking prospects in the farm almost none of which are likely to do anything in his first couple of years here (other than the guys who’ve already been up before he arrived)
Minaya had very little in the way of prospects at any level of the minor leagues and basically made the most out of what he did have to work with through some pretty good trades.
Alderson inherited a team at the end of it’s run with numerous big contracts either questionable from a health or viability standpoint or just flat out suffering from poor play and one young future All Star.
Minaya inherited two future Major League All Stars to begin building around and a couple of still productive free agents like Glavine and Floyd
Minaya was able to immediately put his stamp on the team with popular fan friendly type moves like Beltran, Pedro, Delgado and Wagner.
Alderson has had to tread around junkyards and landfills looking for used parts inorder to avoid costing himself some of the talent his predosesser was able to procure and it will be quite a few years before he’ll be able to put his stamp on his team. In addition a couple of the moves he had to make to safeguard the future were of the unpopular unfriendly type move (Beltran, K-Rod) and other unplesantness like Castillo and Perez. (Duquette basically cleared the landscape for Minaya with Alomar/Vaughn/Burnitz/Cedeno but really ****** Minaya with Kazmir/Zambranno.
The types of moves Alderson has been able to make around here have been about as popular as Mazzilli for Darling 30 years ago.
Similar? Only in the Organization they were hired by.
Here’s where the LESS intelligent fan gets FOOLED by Wilpon. Anyone who thinks he’s “broke” is an absolute idiot. He’s tricking fans into believing they’re going on welfare. All he is doing is taking advantage of a situation where he can slash payroll and wait for Omar’s kids to arrive. He can save money, sell the fans a rebuilding plan, and pocket 100 million or so of saved/not spent money over a course of 4/5 years. He began after 2009 when Omar was forced to field a team with 30+ million less than he had to work with in 2009. Omar only spent because the Wilpons played it cheap for a pair of seasons. It’s the Wilpon’s way to operate.
What boils my blood is seeing you people cap on Omar as if an Alderson plan in 2005 would have served the team better. Yeah right. As if Alderson could do what Omar has done even WITH an open checkbook. I CAN’T WAIT to see the team in 2014 and I HOPE you parrots are here. There won’t be enough toilet paper in NYC to clean up after I’m done crapping on you Omar haters.
The best part is all of you MUST respect the drafting skills of Omar. Omar’s kids both at the pro level and the minors keep you losers from talking more nonsense. I want to see how many of Alderson/Depo’s kids make the pros. Depodesta is USELESS. He only has a job because of nepotism. His career as a GM has been a joke, so I don’t see what’s the use of attaining draft picks when you have 2 Ivy League MORONS running a draft.
Now Jose Reyes is considered a “budding superstar” when Omar had him, but he isn’t one to fit Alderson’s moneyball jibberish when it comes time to PAY Reyes. Reyes was TRICKED into a weak contract years ago. The Mets better not be tricked into thinking Jose isn’t worth the money this offseason.
Castillo and Perez were trades, sir.
They were resigned in the offseason to unreasonably high cotnracts
79 – 83 is not .500 GENIUS
If you think for one minute Alderson had the same free spending opportunity Omar did well then, this debate is just a waste of time, well it is already a waste of time, shame on me. Dealing with liars or maybe just very delusional people with selective memories.
no, 2 years is not enough to turn around a franchise that has been a joke most of its 50 year existence. the Mets made the playoffs on a fluke in 2006 and the follow up has been a disaster.
It takes a lot longer to build something right than it does to mess it up.
so, wait, the mets win 97 games in 2006 and is a fluke, yet the braves do and they’re world beaters???? WTF is this????!!
Because the Braves didn’t do it just once. Excellence is a habit, not an instance.
dumb statement^
Oh, so the Mets have been a consistent winner since 2006?
donal, the braves were garbage from 2006-2009, made the playoffs last year, yet they are consistent winner, the mets go from 2005-2008 4 years of consecutive 83+ victories, including the most in the NL during that time, and you call them lucky or just 1 fluke season. i mean.. which one is it?? go the hell away to a braves blog if you’re soooo in love with them, trust me, in here you won’t be missed..
Alderson inherited a .500 team. Omar and Cashen inherited teams 20+ games UNDER .500.
79-83 is not .500. Neither is 70-92.
Minaya inherited a bad situation and he did improve it, but not by much and certainly not enough to justify $140 million.
Third time you said it
Third time you are wrong JUST in this thread alone.
This sounds like more calls to spend just for the sake of spending. People seem more worried about making sure the payroll is near Yankee levels without mentioning that they’d like the win total to be up there as well.
“We can’t spend at will the same way they can spend.”
Who is “they”? The Yankees?
“Does it sound like they are about to shift from “Blame Omar” to “Blame the Fans”, or is that just me?”
I’m sure there are a couple other people who feel that way, but I don’t. It sounds more like an admission that the Mets have not been giving fans a reason to come out and watch them for the last few years. “We’ve got to get people back into the ballpark”. He’s putting the onus on the Mets.
“Alderson also said “It’s very difficult, unless you’re one of a couple of teams, to have three, four guys making $15 million-plus.” A couple of teams? Just the teams in our area alone have at least 3-4 players making $15 million or more and that includes the Red Sox, Phillies and Yankees, and yet I don’t see them lamenting over payroll.”
There’s a few more differences between the Mets and those teams. And those other differences make teams not too concerned with payroll.
“The Mets are pretty much saying that unless fans start flocking to Citi Field in droves – they still won’t have payroll flexibility to make any significant additions to the team. So basically, all that hogwash about the Mets having an extra $70 million to spend after this season, was just a bunch of hot air intended to fan our hopes for a better 2012.”
I think you’re reading way too much into it.
“The fact is that he was getting that from Carlos Beltran and Francisco Rodriguez before their trades, and he is still getting that from Jose Reyes who may or may not return.”
We were so not getting that from Rodriguez.
“This is going to be one heck of a Hot Stove season for the Mets. In fact the whole damned stove may simply blow up into a huge fireball and mushroom cloud that could be seen from Atlanta, Philadelphia, Washington and Florida.”
Again, more demands to spend simply for the sake of spending. Who is it you think will turn this franchise around? Who is the free agent impact player that makes you say “oh ya, he’ll take us to the World Series”? Who makes us instant October contenders?
In case you didn’t notice, bumping payroll is not a formula for automatic success. In fact, it carries a very high risk factor.
In case you didn’t notice, bumping payroll is not a formula for automatic success. In fact, it carries a very high risk factor.”
shredding payroll is not a formula for success either.. having a team full of “low risk, high reward” players and a bunch of rookies and draft picks doesn’t guarantee success either.. if don’t believe me, ask the royals, pirates and the OAKLAND A’s..
also, is funny alderson takes a shot at the teams spending money, the red sox, yankees and phillies.. well, those are the 3 best teams in the game, and their stadium is FULL!!!
Because they win. Because they built from within and then added payroll. The Cubs and dodgers have had high payrolls for years and yet, I don’t seem to remember any of them having victory parades.
“shredding payroll is not a formula for success either.. having a team full of “low risk, high reward” players and a bunch of rookies and draft picks doesn’t guarantee success either.. if don’t believe me, ask the royals, pirates and the OAKLAND A’s..”
Or the Giants, or the 2005 White Sox, or the 2003 Marlins, or the 2006 Cardinals
giants spent 7 or 8 years of futility.. 50+ years without a champ
white sox are NOT small market 117 million payroll in 2005
Cardinals are not small market team either.. get your fact right before trying to compare you loser.. 121 million payroll in 2006..
Ya, the Giants had ownership that tried to spend their way out of trouble. that ended and now they have a sustainable winner.
The White Sox payroll in 2005 was $75 million http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/a-look-inside-the-2006-open-day-payrolls/
that link also shows the Cardinals payroll in 2006 was $88 million.
And here is Cots for the 2006 Cardinals http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/st-louis-cardinals_111971260115041890.html
And the 2005 White Sox http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html
what was that about getting facts right?
is that ALL SEASON payroll?? or based payroll AT THE END of the season only???
Why don’t you show us where you got your numbers and we’ll figure it out.
The Giants are an example of sheer LUCK. They won because a few players got hot. Their luck ran out this year.
The White Sox were LUCKY in 2005. One hit wonders who slipped back into obscurity after their lucky win.
The ONLY reason the Cards found their way to the World Series is because Pedro, Duaner and Duque couldn’t make it to the playoffs healthy.
Their lower payrolls aren’t formulas for success, jackass.
“The Giants are an example of sheer LUCK. They won because a few players got hot. Their luck ran out this year. ”
The Giants won because they developed ridiculously good pitching and a couple hitters got hot down the stretch. That is not a few phenomenon.
And did the Giants luck run out or have the Diamondbacks gotten very lucky?
And why do we say the 2010 Giants were sheer luck but the 2006 Mets weren’t?
“The White Sox were LUCKY in 2005. One hit wonders who slipped back into obscurity after their lucky win. ”
since 2000, the White Sox have finished with a record of .500 or better 9 times (with payrolls that go up and down). I haven’t included this year because they are 2 games over with a month to go.
And they won the division again in 2008.
“The ONLY reason the Cards found their way to the World Series is because Pedro, Duaner and Duque couldn’t make it to the playoffs healthy. ”
Ya, they sure were lucky the Mets simply weren’t built to win that year.
“Their lower payrolls aren’t formulas for success, jackass.”
I never said they were. I simply used them to point out that high payrolls aren’t perfect formulas for success.
My point, that you and others so enthusiastically and gleefully miss, is that its more about what you spend your money on rather than how much of it you spend.
OmarFan: This entire quote
“The Giants are an example of sheer LUCK. They won because a few players got hot. Their luck ran out this year. The White Sox were LUCKY in 2005. One hit wonders who slipped back into obscurity after their lucky win. The ONLY reason the Cards found their way to the World Series is because Pedro, Duaner and Duque couldn’t make it to the playoffs healthy. Their lower payrolls aren’t formulas for success, jackass.”
=’s the MLB Playoffs. I don’t know why you need to call people names, it doesn’t make you look more smart. The MLB Playoffs are a crapshoot. Is it harder to win 90+ games in a 162 game season than it is to win 11 out of 19? You bet it is.
If you look over time, especially recent history how many teams can you use “luck” or “getting hot” as some call it as a reason for playoff success?
How often does the “best team” win? Not often. If you actually look at 2000-2010 here is what you’ll see
2000: Yanks 87-74 Win World Series, they had the worst record in the AL playoffs that year
2001: Arizona 92-70. Houston & St. Louis had better records in the NL
2002: Pretty much a toss up. Every MLB team in the playoffs was really good.
2003: Marlins win 91 games, win WS over 101 win Yanks. Atlanta won 101, San Fran 100, Cubs 88. Cubs and Marlins in LCS.
2004: Sox and Cards in WS. 98 and 105 wins
2005: White Sox 99 wins, not sure why you say they were “LUCKY” 99-63 is a pretty damn good record. Astros 89 were scorching. STL was a 100 win team that year.
2006: Cards 83 wins, win it all.
2007: Rockies get red hot, win 90 games get in last minute and go to WS.
2008: Phillies win 92 games, Cubs win 97.
2009: Yanks/Phils probably 2 best overall
2010: Giants 92 wins, Texas 90 wins. Tampa 96 wins, Yanks 95 wins, Phils 97 wins, Twins 94 wins.
So it’s mildly funny that you knock the giants for winning it all, when they were the 2nd best team in the NL Playoffs but if Texas won it all they would have won with the worst record in the AL.
The point I *think* Donal is trying to make is that a $200 mil payroll doesn’t win you playoff series’ The point is you don’t need a massive payroll to GET to the playoffs and do damage. Once you’re in the playoffs, anything can and does happen.
You don’t build your team to win 11 out of 19 games, you build it to win at least 90 out of 162 and go from there. The Royals can beat the Yankees 3 out of 5 times. But can get beat them 90 out of 162? No.
The 06 Cardinals? Really?
The had Edmonds, Rolen, Carpentter, Izzy, eckstien, and Mulder from outside the orginazation that year.
If the Cards never spent money on those guys, they don’t win the WS.
Their payroll was $88 million. Do you deny that?
Their payroll was 88 million, right.
again, donal, you’re basing it on the payroll to start the season, or the final day?? last i checked in 2006 the cardinals won 83 games, made it to the playoffs based on how awful the NL central was that year, then, beat out the alderson’s padres in 1-2-3 fashion, then we know the rest..
Then they beat the Mets who made the playoffs because the East was terrible.
What does any of this have to do with their payroll?
Plus, where did your numbers come from? Why don’t you cite your claim?
just chack baseball referance.. there you will get info and insight on teams payroll and additional payroll DURING the year..
No, show me how you got it. that is how adult discussions work. You made the claim, you back it up.
The stupidity of certain Met fans never ceases to amaze me. The difference between the Mets and Cards in payroll in 2006 was between 12-14 million.
and the lesser payroll won
what’s with all the blind faith in our farm system and SA,u think just because we got some POTENTIAL in a cuople of players it will gurantee success.you koolaid drinkers are blind.no i don’t thimk jacking the payroll up will be better,but stripping the team of known talent and payroll sure as hell soesn’t guarantee success.i just don’t share this blind faith of yours in the wilpons and sandy alserson.there has to be a middle ground.
Did I guarantee anything? Seriosuly, stop lying and attacking others that don’t want to play checkbook baseball.
Terry Francona has managed in front of a full house for EVERY game he has managed in Boston since the first day he has been the manager. Because they put a quality team on the field that is always in contention.
and you’re gonna try to tell me putting all ur bets on a bunch of kids in A ball is not a huge risk,you are crazy.
Its not as big a risk as people make it to be. You develop your farm and promote from within and the kid doesn’t produce, you have other options. You can promote the next kid, trade for someone with the kids you have or go look to free agency.
When your free agent bombs, you’re stuck with him. See Bay, Jason.
Yes Donal, wont tell you that the Royals, Nationals and Pirates have been drafting the best players available every year in the First Year Player Draft. Those teams have been drafting higher than the Mets and yet there they are in last place almost every year. How many World Series have they won in the last two decades?
The Pirates have improved over the last few years. and are you going to sit there and tell me the Nats don’t spend big? Really? They don’t chase high price free agents?
Are you that dishonest or that ignorant?
the Royals put too much into their farm, but mishandle the big club with bad trades and louys FA signings. No balance.
And over the last 20 years, the Mets, Nationals, Royals, Pirates, Cubs, and dodgers are all have the same number of World Series Titles.
And over the last 20 years, the Mets, Nationals, Royals, Pirates, Cubs, and dodgers are all have the same number of World Series Titles.”
over the last 26 years team you and jesseP like, including A’s, braves and twins got the same ammount of Championship as the mets and dodgers.. so.. what are you getting at??
That payroll doesn’t seem to be the deciding factor in success or failure.
No how about this?
the tree best teams in baseball all are the ones with the highest salary!
Yankees 81-53 $201,689,030
Boston 83-52 $161,407,476
Phillies 86-46 $172,976,381
Three lowest spending?
KC 56-81 $36,126,400
Tampa Bay 74-51 $41,932,171
San Diego 60-77 $45,869,140
Hmmm I wonder how well SAVING MONEY will work out for US?
Thats what you want to do isn’t it?
again, you lie and lie and lie to support your own weak position.
Did you notice the Brewers have as many wins as the Yankees? Or that the Diamondbacks are leading their division with a $53 million payroll?
Did I ever say I wanted a bottom tier payroll? Or did I say that free agency should not be plan A?
Did I say I want a $30 million dollar payroll? Or do I say I just want the money spent well?
Did you notice who the Brewers play against?
St Louis 72-64 $105,433,572
Cincy 67-69 $76,181,365
Pittsburg 62-74 $46,047,000
Cubs 59-78 $125,480,664
Houston 47-90 $70,694,000
Brewers outspent averyone in their division except Cubs and St Louis
You mean half their division? They have the 3rd highest payroll in their division and they have as many wins as the Yankees.
Of the 8 teams currently holding a playoff spot, 4 have an above $100 million payroll.
So your cluess as to how the scheduling in the MLB works? And how a WEAK DIVISION can inflate a team’s wins in THAT division because they face weakling teams more often than the YANKEES do!
Just admit it there is no shame in being ignorant…if there was you would have left long ago!
And yet, somehow, these teams manage to win World Series over their much higher payroll opponents.
Remember how last year, the Rangers won the ALCS despite being on the short side of the widest payroll gap in playoff history?
You can lie about, derail, obfuscate, hand wave and flat out ignore the facts as much as you want, but the reality is payroll does not determine the winners.
dide get real most teams who only draft suck for long periods of time like 15 years.wake up
Yes, being one dimensional hurts your team. They should explore all options of player acquisition.
My point is, when free agency is plan A, it prevents you from exploring the other options.
I don’t think Joe, or anybody is saying that we should only look at free agency to build the team – I think what everyone is saying that we should spend SOME money this offseason….not as much as Omar did, but more than we spent last offseason.
I’d like to look at guys like Cuddyer, Buehrle, edwin Jackson, ect, you know, guys who aren’t STAR players, but are solid major leaguers….and won’t cost crazy amounts of money.
THAT would be perfect if we went after guys like that….and if we did that, we would still be able to build a strong minor league system – So we would have a better team NOW, and STILL be able to be good LATER.
People are demanding to just spend money. They are saying “a team without the highest payroll shouldn’t be in New York” instead of “a team that can’t win shouldn’t be in New York”.
And you’re assuming a guy like Buehrle won’t require a crazy deal to come here. Or that he’s going to be a difference maker. He’s making $14 million this year. How much of a pay cut do you think he’ll take to be a Met?
I’d rather take a chance on Schwinden than that.
People are demaning to spend more money this year, so we can be a better team – It’s as simple as that.
and I think people are bringing up payroll because we have money free to spend, so why can’t we spend some of that money on some better players this year to make us a better team? If we have the money to get these guys, I see no reason why we shouldn’t try to get them.
Oh and I’m not really sure how much Buehlre would get, but I would guess around 10-12 million, I think that’s fair.
No, they are demanding more money be spent because they see the Yankees do it. Most of them can’t even name a player they think should be targeted and others name ridiculous ones.
“and I think people are bringing up payroll because we have money free to spend, so why can’t we spend some of that money on some better players this year to make us a better team? If we have the money to get these guys, I see no reason why we shouldn’t try to get them.”
Because locking into a bunch of free agents will do more harm than good. especially in the position the Mets are in. And there’s no one out there that is all the attractive outside of 2 1Bs and a starter who is not coming to the Mets.
“Oh and I’m not really sure how much Buehlre would get, but I would guess around 10-12 million, I think that’s fair.”
Not at all. Especially when you realize that he’s going to require a 4 year deal at least. Even if he does keep up his current production (at 32, don’t bet on it), he’s not going to be a difference maker. Not on this team.
If this team were one or 2 players away from being legit World Series contenders and there were difference makers out there, I’d say get the checkbook. But, we’re not in that situation. There is a lot more work to be done before we’re in that spot.
I would not give Buehrle four years, but I would consider it if he would take 3yrs 36 million, or something like that….and of course making that move would be a risk, but I would argue(if he signed for around that price) that it would be a risk if you didn’t sign him! The risk would be that you might miss out on having a solid SP for the next three years.
Now since there’s still a month left in the season, and about two months to go before FA starts, it’s hard to say exactly who you would want the Mets to sign because a LOT can happen between now and then – I might not even want the Mets to sign Buehrle then, he was just an example I picked – So I think that’s why nobody is telling you what players they want the Mets to sign – I’m sure as we get closer to FA, you’ll hear what players everyone wants the Mets to target.
I don’t see how signing good players for a reasonable price will do harm to the franchise, but what I think will do harm to the franchise is if we don’t sign any quality players!
You are under some strange delusion that only one player has to be a difference maker to sign them. That’s not how it works. You have to upgrade at every position that you can. Is Buehrle or CJ Wilson an upgrade over Pelfrey? Yes he is so you do it.
Is Omar Infante or Brandon Phillips an upgrade over Justin Turner?
This notion that people like Mike Francesa and Adam Schein say that you have to sign a difference maker is bogus.
You just have to have a solid performer at as many positions as you can. Only ignorant fans are gonna wait around for 5-6 years waiting for a difference maker like an Albert Pujols in his prime comes around to sign a free agent. That makes no sense in the world.
The Mets need to improve at 2B, C, LF, CF, SP1, SP2, RP2, RP3, RP4. There are no difference makers out there, but there’s plenty of players that would be an upgrade over what we have now.
so, just sign 8 or 9 “solid performers”. And what are they going to cost? How many years will be locked in to 8 or 9 free agents?
And what about the situations that are already crowded, like 2B? Not just Turner, Evans and Murphy, but also Havens and Valdespin and even Satin?
“I would not give Buehrle four years,”
Then be prepared to see him in another uniform
” but I would consider it if he would take 3yrs 36 million, or something like that….and of course making that move would be a risk, but I would argue(if he signed for around that price) that it would be a risk if you didn’t sign him! The risk would be that you might miss out on having a solid SP for the next three years.”
And you think the risk of losing another prospect to rule 5 or that Buehrle will under perform (he is on the wrong side of 30) is worth it for a team that’s way more than 1 good starter from legit contention?
“I don’t see how signing good players for a reasonable price will do harm to the franchise, but what I think will do harm to the franchise is if we don’t sign any quality players!”
Because this team is too far out. One or 2 guys won’t swing things. They’ll just tie down roster spots and cost us draft picks.
The players I talked about I believe don’t cost draft picks.
And since you think we are more than one or two players ayway from contending that means we don’t make any improvments to the team? So what you’re saying is we should only improve the team if we are on player away from the WS?
come on, that’s crazy.
Every GM is always looking to upgrade the team, no matter how far or close they are from contending, if they aren’t, then they probably should be fired.
No, I’m saying playing the free agent market heavy is not going to help the team.
If you want to find some guys on short term deal to fill certain role like bench or pen, fine.
But what people here and other places are doing is demanding Alderson spend as much as he can to get as much as he can for 2012. that is just not a realistic approach.
Anyone we sign to a more than one year contract is going to cost us a potential long term solution who’s sitting in AA or AAA.
You want to sign a starting pitcher for 3 years you very well wind up losing Lagares, Familla, Mejia, Puello, Havens, McHugh, Gorski, Flores or someone else like Fern, Cruz, De La Torre.
That’s just not worth it.
This team still has no catcher, CF took a big step back, Kirk’s out till June, Den Deker needs to have a competent year in AA in 2012 to even be part of the conversation and Puello won’t be up here until the end of ’13 at best and who can even be sure if Ike will be OK?
I’d hate to lose someone who could be an above average performer at their position for 6-10 years, give up a draft choice and the mere fact that “no one could see him falling off a cliff” doesn’t mean that he won’t.
Give Pelfrey his arb raise that he doesn’t deserve and hope against hope that Borass figures out what to do with him over the off season so he has a good 2012 walk year and you let him go AND collect a supplemental pick. If nothing else at least he’ll be healthy enough to give you 200 IP which will help the pen and settle at least one rotation spot without injury concern and you just might get the chance to get something for him at the end of the year.
Go with Pelfrey, Santana, Dickey, Gee, Capuano (if back) Schwinden, some one stashed in AAA (Batista?) and Familia as your 3rd SP call up if need be.
It’s not ideal but it’s certainly better than losing a guy to the rule 5 that opens up yet another “hole to fill” in a couple of years.
The only way out of this mess is if we could trade a few of the guys we’d like to protect, get something for them in a 3 for 1 type deal for the RIGHT starting pitcher or catcher who could be here for 5 years and be a net plus until and after some of our AA and A+ guys get up here and even that would mean opening up some holes down the road with people we might already have in our system like we did with Cruz, Izzy, Mora, Bay Carp, Vargas, Bell, Smith, Jesus Flores ect.
“You want to sign a starting pitcher for 3 years you very well wind up losing Lagares, Familla, Mejia, Puello, Havens, McHugh, Gorski, Flores or someone else like Fern, Cruz, De La Torre.”
That’s not true. You won’t lose them by signing a free agent pitcher.
I’m not an expert on the minor leagues or the rule 5 draft, but I don’t think the Mets are going to lose their top prospects like Mejia and Famillia in the rule 5 draft because they signed Mark Buehrle in the offseason.
I don’t hear other fans of other teams(or anybody) talking about how they lost their top prospect becuase they signed a FA in the offseason.
and if that was the case, that teams do lose their top prospects becuase they signed FA’s, NOBODY would want to go out and sign FA’s in the 1st place!
I think your exaggerating, they mets could possibly lose somebody in the lower levels in the minors, or somebody like a “brad emaus”, you know a guy who will probably never do anything – That type of player we can lose, but not somebody like Mejia.
And we have been signig FA’s for awhile under OMar, and we really didn’t lose any top players (that I can think of)because of the rule 5…the only one I can think of is Flores, and he’s hitting .200, and hitting .230 in AAA.
You will Vinny.
Come Nov. 1st all players under team control or with guaranteed contracts have to be put back on the 40 man roster in preperation for the rule 5 draft. Even injured players like Santana, Ike, Mejia, Kirk and Fern.
Players not currently on the 40 that we’ll need to at least consider protecting include definites like Lagares, Havens, McHugh, De La Torre and even possibles like Cruz, Zapata, Holt, or even Pena.
Sure some guys like Igarashi, Thayer, Buchholtz, Carasco, Alvarez can be let go but other relief pitchers have to be added.
Next year Flores, Puello, Famillia, Cordero and Gorski, Marte and maybe even another Gorski breaks out as well, will have to be protected.
That’s why we’re pretty much limited to one year deals or we risk losing guys who could be here for 6-10 years.
t agee I think you’ve pretty much wrapped up the tradeoffs the Mets will have to consider. We need to protect some of the promising younger players or our future will be bleak.
“Bye bye Miss American pie, gonna Chevy to the levee ………. drinking whiskey and rye ………….THE DAY THE MUSIC died!” The music died for me today!
Mets can’t go into off season and try to fix this team with expensive payroll, other than Jose, cause that is what happened during the Omar years.
We had expensive players who played well but dissappeared in the clutch or got hurt then when they were past their prime there was on one in minors to bring up.
I say money should be spent on BP first of all, sign Jose, and I don’t know what big bat SA is talking about bringing in and where to play them unless he makes a trade.
Their is no one on free market that Mets could afford, in their current structure, so signings will be few.
I say we bring back Pagan, unless you get a younger, cheaper replacement that can switch hit and run like him.
Pelfrey might be brought back cause he is really a #4 or 5 pitcher and he eats up innings.
Fans not coming is the Wilpons fault for not having players in minors to bring up when those on roster got hurt or to replace a free agent player.
I don’t see 2012 as being a different year from 2011 unless:
Jose returns healthy
David returns to form
Ike is the Ike of old
Duda continues his development
Thole gets better defensively
Bay has a better year than 2011
Johan returns to form and Mets can add another arm or fix BP.
My lineup for 2012 would be:
Reyes
Tejada/Pagan
Wright
Ike
Duda
Bay/Pagan
Thole/Bay
Tejada/Thole
pitcher:Santana, Niese,Gee, R.A., Pelf/Capuano, ????
Since most are already on payroll, other than Jose, Pelf and Pagan, how much more could be spent on BP and maybe another though where would this bat go unless you traded either Bay or Pagan.
I would like to see Mets put a team on field to compete with Nat, Phils, Bravos and Yanks but maybe taking a step back, whether mandate from Wilpons or not, and allow Harvey, Familia, Wheeler, Gorski to develop and then in a year or two we have the makings of a pretty good rotation, though until they pitch and produce what can you really expect from prospects.
Yes there will be less fans but if the lineup I put above plays well and avoids the injury but and has a better BP I don’t see why exciting baseball is not possible in 2012 plus with the way Terry has instilled a hard nosed, never give up type of ball then they will always be in the game.
Anyway we can speculate what SA said or didn’t say until off season and signings so we wait patiently to see what 2012 team we will have.
Oh, I’m an optimist when it comes to my team. Not happy with ownership decisions or bad contracts but we can beat that cow till it gives milk but this is the team we have now.
In reference to your comment about ‘maybe taking a step back’, i just dont think there’s any reason too. The Mets team payroll this year acording to MLB is $118 million essentially tied for 8th w the Giants, Yanks being above $200million. That $118 million includes OPerez, LCastilla, KRod and Beltran, so approximately $50million is already gone taking us to about $70million. Now Reyes makes $11million this year so even giving him $20million a year will only incrse the team payroll an addtional $9 million. If you add an additional $10million in arbitration/contract raises(that $10 being pretty generous and depending on if Pagan and Pelfrey, the 2 biggest culprits of that #, will even be on team) then the team payroll is about $90 million, there still room to sign or trade for players that are able to contribute and have the team payroll LESS then this years.
I completely DON’T BELEIVE there is any reason to play ‘small mkt/moneyball’. SNY itself (i believe) is valued at 1 billion dollars, Wilpins are primary owners(so it’s not completely liquid boo-hoo). The Wilpons got very favorable rulings in the Madoff case. STOP CRYING POVERTY!! We didnt just build a new stadium, ‘Citi Field’ (oh yea arent they paying $20mill a year just to call it, Citi field – use it on Pujols !!)to play small ball.
I think we need to spend ‘smart’, and to develop our system ect. I think we can easily field a very competitvie team next season without mortgaging our future by spending foolishly. I think Alderson needs to build the team w a ‘plan’ and i think he can do alot this offseson to get us there. He can bring in a #2 starting pitcher to go along w Santana, Dickey, Neise, Gee/Pelf/Cap(while we wait for Wheeler, Harvey, Familia..)and get a couple of dependable bullpen arms to shore up our pen. Bring back Reyes and i would like to upgrade Pagan(rather then pay him the $6million they expect him to get arbitration) and, if we can finally stay healty, i beleive we can compete. I dont want to ‘wait’ for all the players in our farm, i know they can be cost-effective and somewhat rewarding when they are homegrown but prinmarily i want to compete NOW!! .. ..eh, pretty frustrated if we dont spend money this offseason……….
“What exactly are they trying to say?”
That if they want to see the team spend money on good players we had better start spending good money to go see them!
I have said this for over a year now!
The reasons for us needing to pare down Payroll is not due to the Wilpons being broke or because Omar spent too much the reason is because of all those UNSOLD TICKETS that we fans left UNSOLD!
We have met the financial enemy and it is US!
So if you don’t want to see Moneyball or want to see Jose Reyes remain a Met it’s time to put our money where our BIG MOUTHS are and pony up!
wrong on this one.. the mets owner want fans to pay for players salary AND their debt, if not, they will pay out the debt, THEN we may see some free agents signing, otherwise is futility until our prospects develop and hope for them to turn out good..
This is how baseball works. Fans buy tickets and that pays for the team. Its a business.
guppy, i agree, so, since the product on the field sucks, how much are you willing to get?? is a business both way, you want fans to come to the ballpark, BUILD a winner, trough free agency is the quickest way, not the solution agree, but the quickest way.. don’t get the chris youngs’ of the world to see if he pans out, and expect the casual fan to spend his money and say, gee, let’s go see chris young and pray he doesn’t get injured..
Alex I hate to break this to you…
But if they play moneyball because there is not enough money coming in to buy talent then YOU will be the cause of it!
Not Jessup or Donal!
IF you believe spending money is the way to build then you have to be willing to pay the price to get there.
I did in the late 70′s and early 80′s and was well rewarded not only with getting to go to a WS without having to wait or HOPE I could get tickets and I had choice seats to boot because I got to upgrade each year as well!
Dude their only DEBT is because of not selling enough tickets to pay the bills!
They didn’t lose money anywhere else but on the TEAM!
And they lost it because of all those empty seats!
Maybe its articles like this that make this website have money problems. Its just a stupid discussion. There is no reason for the Mets to go on a spending spree this offseason. The team told fans from the very beginning of the season that they had to fix the team. They said they weren’t going to go waste money on the offseason like they have in the past. Then fans flip out when they say the team is ONLY going to spend $110 million dollars next season. I am sure fans for most teams would love if their team ONLY spent $110 million dollars on payroll. Here they call it being cheap LOL.
The Mets have started to realize what the rest of the league did awhile ago, that you have to build a minor league system to actually be any good. It takes years to get out of the gutter. Yes, we would all love if the Mets jumped to the top of the league next year but its just not realistic and Alderson is a realist. He knows it will take time to get back to being a great team and he has said that from the very beginning.
It won’t matter how much money the Mets spend this offseason anyways because unfortunately the Phillies have a great team and unless they somehow falter (*crossing fingers that Halladay gets hit by a bus*) they will be really good for a few years. It sucks but its reality. Alderson isn’t an idiot, he knows he has to build the team from the bottom up. Spending Omar style won’t win the division next year. Building a team from the farm up will let the Mets have room to work with in the future though and it won’t cost the team $140 million for losing product.
true but biulding from within takes a lot longer than 2 or 3 years.we’re gonna be the pirates and royals especially after santana and bay contracts go away.who wants to watch a bunch of minor leaguers throw the ball all over the field.it’s not worth it going to the park or even watching them on tv.
The Mets already are the Pirates right now and spent how much this season?
bro, santana makes 23 million and hasn’t even pitched 1 inning.. also, castillo and perez 18 million combined and were cut, that’s 41 million right there, also, beltran and krod were shipped out, that’s 29 million more, take away 70 million and you have on the field a
70 MILLION DOLLAR TEAM!!!
Actually, they can build from within while clearing out those bad contracts, provided the rule 5 draft doesn’t pillage the system
People infer from vague statements whatever fits their preconceived notions. It’s human nature. Where did Alderson blame the fans for anything? This? “Our revenues, basically we’ve got to get people back in the ballpark to generate the kind of revenues that would be needed to have an even larger payroll.”
So by saying the team needs to get fans back into the ballpark, he’s blaming the fans for not coming? I don’t blame the one-person “core” for thinking that way because it’s how he felt before some vague statement “confirmed” it for him.
well, is fans like you who are stupid enough to sell what he buys, you actually want CHRIS YOUNG to be back on the mets after pitching in 4 games, well, had omar sign kelvim escobar after he blew his elbow YOU’D be killing him and forming a riot, yet if sandy does it he’s a genious.. i may be a crazy goon, but at least i am consistent one, why sandy gets a pass on some of the things omar got killed for?? do you think is fair?
but since you love sandy, you’d look for any excuse (no matter how ridiculous is) to defend him or make him look good..
Nice try. I thought the Escobar signing was a good one. And it wasn’t his elbow, it was his shoulder. And he WAS signed after he hurt it. But that’s cool…….you don’t need to be right about anything. Even if there is a so-called “core,” aren’t you curious why even they don’t back you up when you post asinine rants like this?
When Sandy signs a bum for multi-years, millions of dollars and gives draft picks away to do so, then I’ll kill him. Until he does that, Omar’s got nothing on him as a GM.
And try as you might to scoff at it, signing Young for peanuts for next season is a good move. And nothing you can throw out there about guys Omar signed can change that.
Alex: Let me ask you something. What is the difference between chris Young & Chris Capuano?
They were both big time injury risks no? They were both pitches who’s success came years priors and both signed for very reasonable 1 year deals.
Cap has earned every penny of his deal, did he not? What did signing Young cost the Mets in the grand scheme of things? You realize if Young was still healthy today Dillon Gee probably wouldn’t be in the rotation?
Contracts like Young & Cap are risks but they are CALCULATED AFFORDABLE risks. When they work, how come nobody is praising Alderson? You just focus on the fact Young got hurt?
Nothing huh Alex? Thanks for playing
praising alderson for capuano??? are you serious?????? you want our fantastic GM to be praised for a guy with a 4.40 ERA and a 10-11 record?? offensively that’s alex cora territory.. i’ve never seen a GM win executive of the year for acquiring a guy like capuano.. NEVER!!!!!!!
Right I forgot you simple baseball mind wouldn’t understand that a 10-11 record.
The only free agents that went to a new team this year with more wins are Aaron Harang (12) for $4mil, and Kevin Correia (12) 4mil for 2 years and Cliff Lee.
Capuano has won 10 games at 1.5mil, 150,000 per win.
If you do not understand that for what the Mets needed at the time, Capuano was a GREAT acquisition. In 12 of his starts he gave up 2 or less earned runs. As a #5 starter, what more are you looking for exactly?
Especially when you consider people were stomping their feet for Jon Garland.
If Cap got hurt after 3 weeks you’d kill Alderson for it. He wins 10 games and you can’t even acknowledge the risk/reward paid off. Proving you have an agenda.
yes it did paid off.. but if you’re gonna crown him for capuano be fair and kill him for EVERYTHING else he did since none of the players acquire has panned out for nothin, and if you think they have it proves my point about your lovefest with the guy…
buy what he sells.. sorry
That’s the least of what was wrong with your little rant.
i KNEW you were gonna comment on it.. prove me wrong then..
prove yourself right
again?? i am one of the few guys in here who links articles, post a bunch of numbers.. i mean.. i bring it.. can you say the same about you??
Excuse me? That’s a bare face lie.
In this very discussion, I posted my sources and asked you to do the same, but you refuse.
You never back up what you claim.
i told you, get baseball reference, then you’d be able to see the team’s salary and from there you go on.. i won’t be linking 3 different post.. go and get it yourself and you’d see how much right i was.. also, i don’t make up numbers, they are there right??
No, back up what you say. If its there, you should be able to show it.
So, go ahead and refuse to prove your claim again.
“prove yourself right”
Translation – “Your right but I can’t disprove it so I’ll throw it all back on you hoping your too busy to show people how dumb I am!”
Sometime Donal needs an interpreter…
I don’t have to disprove it. That is not how logic works.
You make a claim, you back it up. alex made a very specific claim about payrolls. I found 2 reputable sources that say otherwise and prove my point.
No what you found were SOURCES…Reputable? Well…you believe EVERYTHING you read even if it’s on a BLOG and not a NEWSOURCE!
Try this one…
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/8365156
Shows the WhiteSox (you claim 75 Mil) at 129M
You want to check that link again.
In regards to being able to access sites that have a database of MLB “past” payroll/salaries that is available to the public. I only know of 3 that I find to be more reliable than not. They are USAToday, Cot’s Contracts and Baseball-Reference. I am always looking for more sources so if anyone has any to share I would appreciate it.
As far as the White Sox 2005 payroll this is what these 2 sites show. You may or may not agree with what it shows but in any case here goes.
Chicago White Sox
baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2005-misc.shtml
content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team/2005
Seriously, check that link. The top of the chart says 2011 team payrolls. The page title says 2005, but the chart itself is 2011. And its 2011 totals line up with what other sources say are the 2011 totals.
You had such a joygasm thinking you proved me wrong, you didn’t even look at what you were using.
haha Fail Metsie.
Here’s a nice little write up about the history of the White Sox payroll
http://www.paleandhosed.com/columns/white-sox-history-with-shawn/thirty-years-of-payrolls-mlb-average-vs-white-sox/
Maybe next time you will check your own sources before you try and jump down somebody’s throat for the sake of doing so.
By the way I think you wanted to share this link
http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team/2005
Its a shame there’s no reply Donal. I was hoping to see some sort of spin rather than admit fault.
Metsie: We’re still waiting.
“I was wrong sorry” – Metsie
Just copy and paste that. It will be good for your soul
No he’s blaming the lack of sales as a reason for his spending issues…Not contracts and Owners like everyone esle!
If you didn’t get that much from what he said then I don’t get how your reading it.
He’s not BLAMING anyone…Just stating the FACT that until more people start showing up he is not going to have a lot of money to spend!
SO if you want them to spend a ton of money you had better start buying tickets. If you don’t care then he will deal with it.
Thats how I took what he said.
Bottomline is if we do not have money to spend it is not for the reasons most people say it’s because of the ticket buying people don’t do!
The Wilpons ran this Ponzi scheme on the fans after 2002. He drastically reduced payroll in 2004. He’s doing it again. Anyone who thinks this whole thing isn’t a money saving trick on the fans has a bad memory. This time, he’s going to sacrifice YEARS in order to save money. This is a sad time to be a Met fan. We will find out what direction we go with Jose Reyes.
You can FORGET competing if he isn’t resigned. And anyone who thinks his salary will be re-distributed to “players” while simultaneously “improving” the team is out of their mind.
You make some interesting points. But, but, but. If you think the team pivots only on Reyes, you forget a lot of other players. The problem is complicated and you make it seem too easy. It’s not. I want Jose back, but not at the expense of decimating the team. He’s good but a team has nine players in the field. Anyway, Omar, talk it up, as it keeps us all on our toes.
P.S.: Have you been infected with some of baby al’s cigar smoking, room filling, noxious blasts? Keep a clear head baby. We need it.
Duda has essentially replaced Jason Bay on the team in regard to being a middle of the order hitter. The Mets still have not replaced Beltran, though.
The Mets have NOT replaced K-Rod and have one of the worst pens in the game after his trade.
If the Mets lose Jose Reyes, the end results will not be pretty. Replacing his speed and hitting at the top of the order will be impossible. Switch hitting machines like Reyes don’t grow on trees. Reyes makes this team respectable. They’re only close to .500 because of him.
And what team is Jose Reyes wrecking? This team SUCKS without him! Reyes makes 11 million this season. You take Castillo’s money and give it to Jose Reyes. If anyone has a problem with that, they’re sick in the head.
You’re worried about a team that’s .500 at best right now. If you’re telling me we are taking 18 million and giving it to Albert Pujols, then I shut up. If you’re giving 18 million to three or four BOOOOOOOOOOOSHIT players, I will tell you to take a flying leap off the nearest bridge. You know what you will be signing at 4-5 million per player? Mike Pelfrey and Angel Pagan types. That’s what clear thinking, smoke free fans will want on the team as Reyes puts on another uniform @ his new contract signing. You can’t make it up. LMFAO @ “I want Jose back, but not at the expense of decimating the team” LOL. I should post a picture of the Met dugout minus Reyes and Beltran.
P.S. If you were thrown down a flight of steps as a kid, I suggest you sue the person who dropped you.
genisousalderson came here to cut salary..this is no great revelation. he has done it so well that freddye wilponzie grew a pair and dropped einhorn.the people here who still talk about trades or possible player moves are totally off their rockers and have no clue about what genisousalderson is all about.the honorable wilponzie family is about keeping the team and bsing the fans.the sad thing is the fans seem to fall for the same fairy tales all the time….keep dreaming.hey genisousalderson what ya gonna due with reyes?
baby al — I’m not sure if you are full of wisdom or just full of it. But you crack me up. So keep it up while I try to keep my composure and remind fans that they may dislike Jeff and Freddie, but the cure (Picard cleaning out the Mets pockets) may be far worse than the disease (Fred’s alleged cheapness).
Stay with it baby, we all need some lightheartedness in these dreary days of another unsuccessful pennant drive.
des,foist you have to describe what you mean by “another unsuccessful pennant drive”. you think we really had a shot this year? IT WAS NEVER ABOUT THE PENNANT..IT’S ABOUT THE MONIES.genisousalderson is here to cut money and spin it in an ivy league way….period.as far as picard cleaning out freddye wilponzies pockets.. i can only hope and pray you are correct.hey des what’s genisousalderson gonna due with reyes?
baby al, you’re such a breath of fresh air. I don’t know that Sandy Alderson is damned with baseball’s Original Sin because he took a job working for your pals, the Wilpons. Personally, I had low expectations for the team during the past two preseason projections, much lower (especially last year) than the average post submitted by MMO posters. This year I predicted a struggle to finish 4th. We are mediocre and Alex68 is right when he tempers expectations for the team’s finish.
Everyone is so worried about payroll. Geez don’t you all know that if your in a rut an face a deficit your supposed to increase expenses and take on debt. Obama called the Wilpons and summoned them to the White House, word is that Obamma is going to order Fred Wilpon to fire Sandy Alderson and replace him with Joe Biden. Biden has been instructed to sign every big name free agents to mega deals… Spend! Spend! Spend! Isn’t that the message our President and his Party tell us? Payrol1 concerns?
Nancy Pelosi says Sandy Alderson is UnAmerican for not having signed Jose Reyes to a 20 million 5 year deal by now. This just in……Maxine Waters has called out the Thugish penny-pinching Alderson saying that Congress will tax the Mets out of buiness unless they take on more debt! Come on Wilpons! It’s cool to be in debt!
the type of people worried about payroll seems to be you and the wilponzie mob.like some people on this site you count and worry about freddyes money.count your own money. i am interest in hardball not how poor freddye wilponzie has spent his money in a foolish fashion.ya want a small market team pay for cable…pay for the baseball channel and follow kc or pittsburg.politics,by the way,have no place on this site. nice try though.
Sandy says: “… basically we’ve got to get people back in the ballpark to generate the kind of revenues that would be needed to have an even larger payroll.”
The old Catch 22. Sorry but in the number one market area in the world it takes money to make money. The fans will come back AFTER the Mets start contending – not before.
If you don’t believe me – look up the late 70′s Mets when management and ownership decided they were not going to compete for free agents. Attendence got to be 700,000 and ownership was forced to sell.
If Sandy is under the delusion that the Mets will get their fan base to shell out hundreds of dollars to take a family of four to watch a non-competative team then we are in for some hard years ahead that will end badly for the Wilpons.
Been there, done that.