20
2011
Alderson Not Sold On Mets Internal Options For Closer
An article by Hojo's Mojo
According to Mike Puma of the New York Post, Mets GM is not thrilled with his internal candidates for the the 2012 closer role and when asked specifically if he envisioned the next Mets closer coming from within the organization he said, ”I’m not convinced of that. Nor can I believe anybody else is convinced of that.”
Not exactly a big vote of confidence for Bobby Parnell or Pedro Beato.
Alderson said strengthening the bullpen as a whole will be an emphasis this winter — Mets relievers have a 4.22 ERA, which ranks last in the National League.
Puma believes if Alderson had money to spend he probably would consider looking at potential free agents like Heath Bell or Jonathan Papelbon. That not being the case, it leaves only two other options…
1. Covert a starter like Mike Pelfrey into a closer which Alderson hasn’t completely ruled out.
2. Sign about 6-8 relievers on the cheap, and then all hands on deck for the Spring Training edition of “Who Will Be The Next Mets Closer?”
It may even end up being that nobody becomes the official Mets closer and instead Terry Collins will play the hot hand in a closer by committee situation which is sort of what the Mets have been doing since they traded K-Rod in July.
Hopefully next season, their closer by committee can perform with a lot less disastrous results than this season.
About the Author: Rob Johnson
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so, why trade him and not try to work a deal with krod in the first place?? i mean… at least try to see if a deal can be done before trading your closer nd probably only good bullpen guy for absolutely crap, then come and say, oh, well we need a closer for next year.. ugh.. but hey, i heard izzy wants to pitch again next year, that’s a cheap option since we’re BROKE right?
I doubt K-Rod would had just negotiated away a $17.5 million option when he had the the upper hand. He did it with the Brewers because he wasn’t the closer, and possibly to grease the wheels of being the closer if something had happened to Axford.
K-Rod wasn’t taking 2 years 17 M when he was virtually assured of getting 17 M over one year. I mean who’s kidding who. He also wasn’t taking 3/21 or 3/24 either. Why would he? He WOULD take the 1/17 M then go for 2/16 and wind up with 3/33 M at worst.
The thing is with so MANY holes to fill how can you allocate so much of your total team payroll to someone who pitches just 60 innings a year? A critical 60 innings for sure but just 60 innings nontheless.
A regular starting catcher has more impact on the season than a closer anyway and we haven’t had a good season out of our starting catcher since 2006. How long can that continue? A good starting catcher is not only a spot in the lineup but also a part of the pitching staff as well. His contribution affects up to 12 other players performance to varying degrees and he’ll usually perform for you in about 1000 innings, not 60.
It’s a matter of priorities. It’s not that uncommon for a relief pitcher to have a great season out of nowhere or a combination of them to do the job but a catcher’s not going to suddenly play over his head for 1000 innings. At some point he’ll settle into what he is and that has to be better than what we’ve gotten over the last five years cause frankly it’s not cutting it.
And it’s not like catcher is the only spot that that can be said of.
Always whining – now you’re on a starting catcher kick.
Everyday you have a new angle and/or different direction to come from so you can attack the way the Mets do thing as organization. You do it with every single word you type every single day.
First of all the starting catcher wasn’t the issue in 2007 and 2008 so regardless of who it was or how they produced the starting catcher did not come into play in deciding our fate in Sept of 07 and 08.
Forget 2009 cuz everybody AND the backups were hurt.
In 2010 we had a very good starting catcher in Rod Barajas. Too bad he stopped hitting after a couple months but otherwise he did a very good job for us and handle the pitchers very weil. Barajas is a professional catcher and I believe he’s regarded as one of the better defensive catchers in the league. Anyway, too bad he stopped hitting after getting off to a great start and he priced himself out of the Mets budget. I think he signed for about 4 million or so with Los Angeles? I’m not about to go look up the exact number.
He’s hitting .233 in around 280 ABs this year with 15 HRs and 44 RBIs so his production for the amount of playing time he’s had this year is pretty darn good. I’m not interested in his OBP because that’s not what he’s on LA for. He’s there to drive in runs at the bottom of the order and handle the pitching staff. That’s his job – not get walks.
So maybe this year maybe wasn’t a banner year for the Mets catching but it’s not as bad as you make it sound either. And it hasn’t been as bad or as relevant to our successes or lack of success in 2007 and 2008 either.
You just want to attack the way the organization works any chance you can get.
he is going to be a FA. If they want him back, just sign him.
If someone mentions Pelfrey for closer again, I will get violently sick.
Pops
In a position of strentgh,there was no way K-Rod was going to renegotiate that ridiculous option Omar the choke maker gave him,despite the bullshit story he gave after he was traded.He was going to finish way more than 55 games had we kept him.He’s on the decline,has been since we signed him.I wouldn’t want him back for his regular salary.He’s a high wire act every time out.I’d rather they pay Heath Bell for 2 years if they can get him for that.
@alex68: because the Mets need a cheap closer and not someone who would command a multi-million dollar deal …. even on the cheap, KROD is no look at less than $7-8M for two or three years …. even if the Mets could have negotiated away the vesting option, they would still be looking at paying him far more than (1) he is worth and (2) more than they could afford.
right, i forgot the owners are broke, and they keep losing money that we don’t know how they’re losing it and have a pending losing not yet settle so they keep assuming for the past 3 years or so how much they’ll lose.. i totally forgot, is better to have someone cheap that will suck instead of paying a good closer, that’ll save us money but lose games, i forgot this front office can care less about winning as long as they’re saving money
Getting a closer is the absolute least of our problems. Why dont we build a rotation first and an offense as well so that then we can worry about who gets the saves?
Build an Offense?
Well have you looked recently at who is the leading run scorer in the NL East?
Hint it isn’t the Phillies or the Braves!
If we rebuild the starting rotation (no Argument there) and the Bullpen so we don’t give UP as many runs we would win with the offense we have!
How many blown saves does this team have?
How many leads has the bullpen given up!
RA Dickey should have about 6-10 more wins than he does as he left with leads only to see the Bullpen give them up!
This team needs pitching! The Offense is there!
team stat on Runs Scored proves that!
what offense?? OBP??
RS as in RUNS SCORED!
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting
Phillies jumped one run ahead of us on our day off!
Our Offense is AS PRODUCTIVE as that of the Phillies!
Thier record is due to PITCHING not OFFENSE!
right, i get you now.. the thing is, we may lose reyes, if that happens our offense will suffer greatly, also, forget about the phillies for now, we will not add any significant player this next offseason, they will low ball reyes, he’ll walk, then we’d be stuck with more “hihg rewards/low risk” players, tryong to create the new york royals by these moneyballers saber goons.. watch..
Well if we lose Reyes it only makes his pitching fix even harder to solve because he will need to spend on much better pitchers to make up for the loss of runs!
Right now if we kept the same exact linup but fixed the pitching so it gave up fewer runs our record would be much better than it is.
You can’t fix a problem by changing what is NOT the problem!
You change what IS!
And on our team it’s all in the Pitching!
Phillies,Redsox,Yanks,Rangers,Cardinals,Mets,SD,SF,Oakland all have hired sabermatricians AKA sabergoons.The Mets have employed a sabergoon since 2003.They’ve used sabermetrics as a method to evaluate talent long before Alderson was hired.Do a little research.Why do you think Oakland no longer has a leg up.Everybody is into sabermetrics.The difference between Alderson and Billy Beane is Beane s 100% Sabermetrics while Sandy uses it as a tool while also relying on old school scouting.The Drafting of Nimmo and Fulmer were examples of scouting their tools and projecting upside potential.You can’t use sabermetric advanced stats on high school kids,especially Nimmo who didn’t have a high school team.Amazing how some Met fans perceive their GM and don’t have facts.They just assume the front office is about moneyball.
No, team BA, about the same as 1986.
Metsie, The Phillies and Braves are getting some historic pitching this year. Jurgens and Hanson were lights out until they got hurt and Beachy’s been terrific. Kimbrel, Venters and O’Flaherty are having incredible seasons. It’s not likely we’ll be able to add four or five pitchers who produce the way those guys have.
The Phillies have gotten some incredible pitching as well.
Those teams can get by with less offense than we can and we’re about 5 top shelf pitchers away from matching their production.
It is our most glaring need to be sure but we’re not going to be able to close the gap on either of those teams very easily in that area.
Defense is another part of it. Catching for sure.
We really need to close the gap using whatever upgrades are possible anywhere and do it without disturbing the future.
Resigning Reyes is job #1.
I don’t know what your trying to say?
Are you saying they won’t be able to get the same pitching next year? (meaning we will be much closer in the standings since our Offense is just as good)
Or do you assume they are going to get the SAME pitching they got this year and any improvment on our side isn’t going to help?
Bottomline is WE HIT AND SCORE as much or more than they do!
So the regulars in the lineup are not the problem!
It’s pitching that is the difference in our respective records!
Are we going to get enough to match what they got this year? prob not, but if we get more and their pitching comes down a bit then we are going to be in the race unless Washington takes us all over!
Yeah they could come back a little while we close the gap some more but overall we’re going to have to score more than just a little over what the Braves and Phillies (and Wash) do.
If he is going to convert a starter the IDEAL starter to convert (even if for only one year) is Santana!
Santana has the makeup to be a great closer, He may not have the Stamina to be a good starter but one inning a day should not be a problem!
Santana has always been at his best in tight situations! With runners on he has that strikeout capability that Parnell is supposed to have but hasn’t showed lately.
K-Rod was similar in this respect he would put two guys on then strike out the side. Sanatana used to do that as well! The more dangerous the situation the nastier he got!
Thats what we need in the Closer role!
He may be unavailable a little more than another guy used to closing almost everyday, but it would be the best way to ease him back into full pitching shape without forcing him to throw 200+ innings right off the bat.
let him build his arm strength in a controlled one inning at a time pace where you can monitor his shoulder on a day to day basis.
If we keep him as a starter we are going to wind up babying him early and having a quick hook on him which will only place more hardship on the BullPen.
Many a starter who suffered injury has rejuvenated thier career as a closer, Isringhausen for one!
It will be far easier to find a starter for reasonable prices than it will be to find a closing specialist so if I am Sandy I would approach Santana and ask him if he would try it for next year while he gets back into shape and we can always stretch him out after next season and make him a starter again.
And by doing that if Santana shows he can’t get anyone out anymore because of the injury at least we will not have blown out our bullpen using them in long relief and be no worse off than we are now!
That’s one expensive closer…
Yep but it’s not as out of whack as it is for a guy who can only give you 6 innings a start isn’t it?
It’s about not having to count on Santana for 6 or 7 innings every 5th day and only having to count on him for one in games where we have a lead.
It allows you to control how he is used better, Gives him less stress on any given day and allows him to build up his strength without having to carry another guy who can finish what Santana can’t every 5th Day!
If you went a bought a good closer you would pay almost as much. We are paying Santana that much regardless of if he pitches or not!
It’s really a matter of do you want to get 4 or 5 innings over 5 days as a starter or 4 or 5 innings over the same time as a closer.
At least as a closer if he tires out after an inning or two your no worse off than a regular closer in that situation!
But as a starter it has a ripple affect across the entire pen!
Not saying it’s the end of the world. If that’s best how Santana is utilized, then fine, I guess. Better than Pelfrey for sure. If Santana does hit the BP, then 2 SPs need to be signed. 1 for the rotation and 1 for the 6th/long man. (not to mention if Pelf gets traded/cut/shot/kicked to the curb/etc.)
The John Schmoltz plan?
And Tex, they are paying him anyway. If he can’t start, at least it is something!
Yep! I can think of no BETTER way to nurse Santana back than to limit our reliance on him to at most 3 innings (one a day) for 4 or 5 days than to have to rely and make up for only 5 innings in one day over those same 5 days.
If we make him a starter and he has to miss a start it means (most likely) bringing up and starting the MLB service clock on some kid from the Minors to take his place. If he’s sore or not up to it as a closer you simply use other Pen arms in his place.
Pitching one inning a day three or 4 consecutive days might be as much stress as pitching 5 consecutive innings every 5th day but at least you can go day to day with him in the pen, rest him more when he needs to rest by considering him unavailable where as a starter if he can’t go you can hurt the entire rotation and burn up the pen anyway!
Closing by committee only works for a short period of time when a closer is on the DL or rehabbing. Pitchers need a specific role to help the club, i.e., starter, long reliever, left handed specialist, closer, etc. We need a closer, whether one comes from within or through the free agency or trade route-we need a closer.
It worked in 86 with 2 closers.It only works if you have enough talented relievers whether its for a short term or all season.Long before the Closer role was created that’s how games were finished,Sometims starters would close out games on their throw days.I realize pitchers are not treated the same and that will never happen again but the notion of closing by committee not being able to work is BS.It will only not work if you don’t have enough good relievers.
I vote for #2. Bring in options, and let one of them claw his way to the top of the pile.
hey, a big part of closing is supposed to be the mental toughness (killer instinct?) so what better way to prove it than winning the job in a sink or swim competition?
Either that or said closer is a complete loon and doesn’t comprehend the situation enough to realize he should be scared.
Alderosns cander is refreshing..the bullpen situation should be pretty obvious, need to find a clser and a couple of GOOD arms, and probabaly more lie a dozen arems half being spring training invitees. Brydak has the only guearenteed spot ..looks like reyes is priority thne bullpen , he stated he expects to bring back staff and hope for development form Niese and Gee, and Pelf, i still say they should sign a starter and maybe trun Gee into long relief and starter when a guy gets injured
Alderson was candid. Sounds like he’ll give set up reliever a chance to close.
Honestly, i think the Mets looking outside the organization for a closer would be a great idea. Guys like Capps, or Broxton could go for cheap.