5
2011
Will Mets Send Daniel Murphy Back To The Outfield Next Season?
An article by Hojo's Mojo
Daniel Murphy is a heckuva baseball player according to most, but ssemingly has no position on a diamond he can call his own. By now this comes as no surprise to Mets fans, but according to Steve Popper of The Record, there’s been some talk of Murphy picking up an outfielders glove in the future and re-hashing the left field experiment.
The Mets expect Davis back at first next year, so second base is the most likely spot (for Murphy). But there has been some talk of a shift to left, with Jason Bay moving to center if Angel Pagan is not retained.
Murphy’s approach and consistency at the plate, has made him a fine hitter and offensive weapon for a team that lost it’s big thumper in the line-up. He leads the team in RBIs and is currently fifth in the National League in batting with a .319 average.
The plan going into this season was for Murphy to fill a super utility role off the bench, but obviously he’s played himself into an everyday player now, and Collins needs him in his lineup.
According to the NY Times, during a recent Mets telecast, Keith Hernandez and Ron Darling held a prolonged discussion about Murphy.
The two were clearly intrigued by the riddle Murphy presents. And Hernandez could not keep himself from being critical, saying he respected the way Murphy hustled but was skeptical of his baseball instincts and questioned whether such instincts could be taught or somehow acquired.
“I don’t want it to feel like I’m burying him here, but his instincts are not good,” Hernandez said. “He makes too many mistakes on an almost daily basis.”
Former GM Omar Minaya, who selected Murphy in the 13th round of the 2006 draft also weighed in on the situation and believes the problem is that Murphy is being over-aggressive:
“He’s one of those guys that’s very intense,” Minaya said, “and sometimes that intensity can get him in trouble on the base paths or in the field.”
Minaya, who praised Murphy as “a grinder, a gamer,” said it was possible the game was still moving too quickly for him at the major league level, and suggested it would slow down once he settles into a single position, if he ever does. Minaya said if the decision were his, he would not rule out trying Murphy in the outfield again.
SNY analyst and former Mets pitcher Bobby Ojeda, agreed with Minaya and also suggested that it was Murphy’s great hitting in the minors that allowed him to quickly move through the system which caused him orga
Both Minaya and Ojeda suggested Murphy’s gifts at the plate had hindered his overall development; it led him to be moved quickly to the majors in 2008 before he had the time to get better at one position. His minor league apprenticeship included just nine games in Class AAA.
“Maybe you can’t learn innate instinct, to use that word, but you can teach a feel for the game, and that happens with repetition,” Ojeda said. But Murphy did not get that repetition at the highest level of the minor leagues.
This battle will wage on for the rest of the season and then become amplified even more during the winter when the matter becomes even more pressing.
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I’m doubtful this story is anything more than the fodder of a sports writer on a slow day. But I think we might see the fringe assault Murphy, castigating him without facts. So late last night I went out to MiLB and MLB and found out the following facts:
In 2011, Tejada struck out with the Mets 1 out of every 5 times at bat.
In 2011, Murphy struck out (with the Mets) 1 out of every 9 times at bat.
Even with Buffalo in 2011, Tejada strikes out 1 out of every 7 times at bat.
Overall, Tejada in 2011 has 89 hits, Murphy has 122 hits (33 more).
Regarding SLG, it isn’t close. Murphy has .450 with the Mets, Tejada has .274 with the Mets.
As of a couple of days ago, in 2011, Murphy had 9 errors, Tejada had 17 errors. Yes the eyes and a lot of publicity cause deception. But Murphy has much better hitting and better fielding numbers.
This is a terrible case of reading stats improperly. I’m quite sure if Murphy handled the poor more frequently, he would have way more errors than Tejada. As a SS, Tejada will be prone to more errors because he gets to more balls for the errors to occur either by way of playing a more demanding position that sees more action. Tejada is also a much younger player so of course his numbers will pale in comparison. No one is suggesting Tejada will hit like Murphy. The assault on Murphy is more directed at his defense and his instincts. He was never taught how to properly play the game on defense. That’s something Tejada has over Murphy. He knows how to play. Murphy simply knows how to hit a baseball.
Wouldn’t 1B have the most chance for errors, being involved on the most number of plays? Just asking.
I know he looked bad in the OF, but overall, how many errors did he have patrolling LF?
Des I know your more trying to make a point to others based on other conversations..
But to be honest there is no point in comparing him to Tejada when it’s Turner who is most likely to take the position we tried to shoehorn him into.
And the bottom line with what happens with Murphy is way more tied to what happens with Turner than anything Tejada may or may not do. Tejada is only relevant if Reyes goes!
Metsie, your first sentence says everything. I completely agree. I stayed up very, very late last night and the comparison that I unearthed was too much on point to be wasted.
I agree with the Turner comments you’ve made, but Jason will have to repeat his play next year. Some folks aren’t completely sold on him. He certainly started out like a house on fire. He ‘s now down to some glowing embers. We’ll see what he does over the long haul. Actually I really like him and hope he does well.
I’m not sold on Turner either…he has a great glove! Murphy has a great Bat! It’s the age old question which is more important to you? Glove or Bat?
I personally think it makes much more sense to trade Turner than Murphy. First off your not going to get much for Murphy if the intention is he is going to be a DH. There are far too many good hitters (POWER hitters) that are past their prime as far as everyday positional use to waste that slot on a young kid who won’t come anywhere near 40 HRs. So I don’t see anyone giving up what Murphy’s batting would say he is worth I mean he is right up there with Reyes for the batting title! it makes much more sense to find a place for him to play and I suspect 3B is the place to put him. We have Wright there now and I’m not above the notion of possibly making a blockbuster for Wright in the offseason to get a ton of youth or an Ace and putting Murphy at 3B. It was the one position he seeminly had no issues with!
Not a move you could make now and Wrights injury usurped any discussion of it before the deadline.
Turner could clear waivers I bet but it would be touch and go. He has impressed enough people to generate some interest. Your not going to get much back and maybe he is part of a package for something good but again it won’t be possible until the offseason.
And we should remember that Ike will now have missed a season. Who knows how far that sets him back. Murphy can fill that role well.
I do feel Murphy has the makeup to one day lead this team should he ever get over his rookie exhuberance issues. he plays hard, maybe TOO hard to be honest! And instead of trying to calm that down I would much rather harness that enrgy and direct it properly.
I have not given up on Havens at 2B either so trading Turner to find a place for Murphy until we harness that energy or find a position for him is not a problem of backup.
It is situations like these that are the makings of a good BUYER trade!
We have guys we can’t fit into the lineup so lets trade SOME to get something we do not have a logjam at.
If I had to trade someone today I would look to trade Turner for BP help which would solve the short term problem for Murphy when Ike comes back and give us some support in the pen that is desperatly needed.
And if it takes throwing Tejada in I’m fine with that once we know we have Reyes re-signed.
This is such spin. Murphy’s position is 3B. It’s what he knew his entire life until arriving with the Mets. Can’t fault the man for not having the tools to play other positions. This is going to be a HUGE loss when he finds a team with vacancy @ 3B.
Can we discuss this matter using facts? Yes there is spin but it’s not in my post.
Stats are not facts. Baseball isn’t played via facts thru stat lines. Attacks on Murphy cannot and should not be defended via an error totals stat line. It’s very misleading. Tejada is by far the superior defender and it’s not even close. If you need a stat to see Tejada knows how to play, there’s a problem lol. Tejada knows what he’s doing on the field. You get scared when Murphy has the ball hit or thrown to him.
“Stats are not facts.”
Uh, ya they are. Your opinion is what isn’t a fact.
“Tejada is by far the superior defender and it’s not even close. ”
How so? Because he is more likely to make a WebGem?
“If you need a stat to see Tejada knows how to play, there’s a problem lol. ”
I need more than your unqualified opinion.
“Tejada knows what he’s doing on the field. You get scared when Murphy has the ball hit or thrown to him.”
I’m not really too confident in Tejada, given to how he seems too error prone compared to most starting MI.
OmarFan brings a whole new dimension to assessing performance. LOL
The is a lot of horsedung being spread by fringe posters about what Tejada brings to the table. So I ran another analysis. In 2010, major league second basemen, defined as those who played 2B in 50 or more games, were compared.
Of the 92 players defined by the above criteria, Ruben Tejada was tied for 77th position. In my opinion, this kid is stylish and smooth. The only problem is he’s just not very good. He’s not a speedster for sure. He’s not a threat on the basepaths, and he has profound flaws in his physical makeup that will almost certainly limit his future quality as a hitter.
He’s overmatched often because he has neither strong forearms or strong, quick snap, wrists. So often he has to drop the barrel head of the bat to get power. He has to use full arm swings. Sometimes he makes contact but because of his lack of quickness and strength with the bat, the hits are mostly weak grounders or popups. When he came up in early 2011, many of his hits were ‘seeing eye’ hits.
Sorry Des, but your analysis of a 20-21 year old is so off, it’s not worthy of discussion. It’s what happens when young kids use numbers to qualify players instead of experience. I probably have been watching baseball longer than you’ve been on this planet. A kid that hit .290 in AA @ the age of 19 is pretty impressive. You don’t hit .290 by fluke or getting “bloops” or “seeing eye hits”. That’s some real “fringe” analysis and left to someone who probably has too much time on his hands trying to make himself look like a baseball savant. I’m no pro, but I played enough to know there’s no such thing as luck over 300 at bats. You either can or cannot hit. The question lies with this level of competition and how much Ruben improves his strength. That might come with maturity and proper workouts. As for his speed, he looks like he has average speed, although I have yet to see him in person. When I do, I will get a better feel for what type of straight speed he has if I see him go from first to third or second to home. Hopefully, you’re not using stolen bases as a tool to judge his speed.
Tejada error prone? Whoa..lol
Yes, I have no idea why you dismiss something that’s backed up with evidence.
He may turn out to be a legit big league MI, but right now, he’s got a ton of work to do and the big club is not where he should be doing it
“Stats are not facts.” I like that one, OmarFan. But do stats represent facts? Of course they do.
Stats represent a chart for performance over “X” amount of time. It’s doesn’t entail any sort of fact between the lines.
I think you trade him this offseason while his value is high. I an a big Murphy fan though I just don’t see how he fits in our future plans. He needs to be a everyday player but I get the shakes just thinking aboutbhim back in LF.
Agreed. Mets need to trade Murphy as soon as they can this offseason. He’s a square peg in a round hole on the Mets, and if we can get some help in right field or center field or a potential closer, it would be great. So far we’ve gotten rid of our best hitting outfielder and three hitter and our top reliever and closer without so much as a plan b. We’ve seen this before. Failing to plan always leads to planning to fail.
I don’t think the Mets are going to trade Murphy. It’s hard to find an outstanding hitter like Murphy. And CitiField is built for a good line drive hitter.
Outstanding? Greg Jeffries with a better attitude is what you have a man crush on. At least when Jeffries played first base later in his post Met life, he didn’t look like a circus clown ala Murphy. Oh and he has pop in his bat. Come back with your “doubles” stuff now.
Minaya and Ojeda are right. Murphy hasn’t had a chance to simply play one position outside of 1B. I’d like to see him at 2B, because he didn’t look that bad there and we can hide him between 2 other really good fielders in Reyes and Ike while he gets a feel for it. You can’t do that in an outfield when the other 2 guys are Bay and Duda.
After the 2008 season, the Mets actually sent Murphy to learn 2B in the Arizona instructional league, but he broke his foot. He probably would have played some 2B in 2010 once Davis came up if he hadn’t been hurt. When he played 2B in the Dominican Winter League, where Oberkfell was his manager, he received praise for his progress from Mets officials and scouts outside the organization.
Murphy played for Aguilas, Oberkfell managed Escogida.
His best position would probably be DH/corner infielder in AL.
Murphy in outfield? Hold on I just pissed my pants laughing. Come with it Des the almighty. Get on me with your stupid “I have numbers to support my man crush on Murphy crap”. My eyes and common sense as most others say something else. They say he’s a DH!
Hey Metsr1, can you make any comment without being vulgar. I’m really impressed with your vocabulary. But please start using it.
By the way, when your strongest point is that you use your eyes (perhaps implying that the rest of us don’t), you come off as having a weak view.
Were you offended by the word “pissed”? That’s vulgar? In checking the post as they relate to Murphy, I see two real die hard Murphy fans. Most others are like me. They see him for what he is. Granted the kid can hit. Granted the kid has heart. Those are not good enough in a game where you can no longer “hide” a defensively challenged player except at DH. If he hit for power ala Adam Dunn, them by all means hide him at first. Hell, Greg Jeffries wasn’t as bad a buthcer as this kid. At least he could run the bases and not have a brain fart reaction on the bases or when he had the ball in his hand. How is that a weak view?
Trust me, there is no one like you. Loser.
How witty! You asked me to be a little civil and there it is. You still come back with “loser”. How grand. I’ve given you my opinion and that’s what I get. Oh well, how’s this…stop the Murphy man crush. It’s emabarrasing.
Did someone actually say “we can hide him between 2 other really good fielders in Reyes and Ike”. We now to have to hide majoe league ball players because they can’t field. Great! I know two places to hide him. 1) The bench as pinch hitter or 2) The AL as a DH.
we’re already hiding a defensively challenged 3B to Reyes backhand side and saving his bad throws with Ike’s great reach (when Ike isn’t on the DL)…
Well, if we had a major league level 2B, it wouldn’t be a problem. So, I’d rather have the guy who hits really but isn’t a flashy infielder play 2B than some guy who can’t hit his own weight with defense that is really just flashy.
should be putting Murphy at 3rd, Bay in Centerfield, Duda in LF and David Wright in RF…Wright has the worst arm that I’ve ever seen attached to a long term starting Third Baseman…
Have you seen Ryan Ryan Zimmerman of the Nationals lately? lol
So, your solution for a guy who you think can’t throw from 3B is to put him in RF? And put him next to a guy who hasn’t played CF in 6 years and has a grand total of 40 games at that position in the majors?
I think he belongs in the AL as a dh.That said, he makes the spectacular plays at 3rd and first.The routine plays give him problems.If he stayed at one position that should get better with time.The problem is that first and third are taken and i find the thought of him in the outfield too scary
My two cents worth is that Murphy in LF and Bay in CF is just a horror show waiting to happen on this team.
How many “pitchers” would want to come to Mets to pitch in Citi with Bay in CF, Murphy in LF and possibley Duda in RF?
This is just mis-played balls waiting to happen.
Where he winds up will depend I think on his progress on mental/instincts part of baseball.
Someone needs to talk to him and have remember that you have to think situations out ahead of time and taking that extra fraction of a second will allow you to make the right play.
Either Murphy or Murphy/Turner will wind up at 2b cause Mets need good OF defense especially in Citi Field.