16
2011
Photo: Brandon Nimmo Signs His New $2.1 Million Deal
An article by Hojo's Mojo
There’s Brandon Nimmo signing his new contract in a photo from the NY Mets.
Brandon Nimmo will speak with the media at 5:00 pm and answer questions, so check back later for a recap.
Official Release from Mets:
The New York Mets tonight announced that they have signed outfielder Brandon Nimmo of Cheyenne East High School (WY), the club’s first-round selection and the 13th overall pick in 2011 First-Year Player Draft.
The Mets also agreed to terms with their third-round pick, righthanded pitcher Logan Verrett from Baylor University, their 11th-round selection, righthanded pitcher Christian Montgomery from Lawrence Central High School (IN), their 15th-round pick, infielder Phillip Evans from La Costa Canyon High School (CA) and their 16th-round pick, outfielder Bradley Marquez from Odessa High School (TX).
The Mets signed their first 12 selections and 19 of their top 21 picks.
Nimmo, 18, who bats lefthanded and throws righthanded, played American Legion ball for Post 6 since Wyoming has no high school baseball. In 63 games, Nimmo hit .551 (98-178) with 23 doubles, 16 triples, 14 home runs, 99 RBI and 33 stolen bases. Nimmo helped Post 6 capture their third straight state title this year.
The 6-3, 190-pound native of Cheyenne, WY won the MVP award at the Under Armour All-America Game at Wrigley Field last August, going 2-4 with a triple, two RBI and two runs scored for the American Team. Baseball America ranked Nimmo has the second-best high school athlete in the draft, and the second-best pure high school hitter. The publication also said Nimmo has the second-best strike-zone judgment of all high school draft prospects. Nimmo was the first ever first-round selection from Wyoming.
Original Post 12:05 AM
With deadline only seconds away, the New York Mets finally came to an agreement with 2011 first round draft pick Brandon Nimmo.
Nimmo, the 13th pick in June’s draft, decides to turn down a full scholarship from the University of Arkansas to turn pro and sign with the Mets for $2.1 million dollars, according to ESPN’s Keith Law.
The recommended slot bonus was $1.65 million.
Mike Diaz of Mets Minor League Blog, had this to say about Nimmo:
“Nimmo is a tremendous athlete with outstanding tools across the board. Very high upside, with size, speed, and defense. Smooth left-handed hitting swing, with a lot of room to fill out. This is a high reward pick for the Mets. You can easily see the sweet swinging Nimmo as a potential middle of the order type bat for this organization. While the focus was on college arms and college bats, the Mets pulled a fast one on everyone with the Nimmo selection. This shows that the new regime is looking for the best available talent, and Nimmo fits that bill. With that being said, Nimmo also comes with some risk, but the upside appeared to be too much for the organization to pass on.”
The Mets also signed 3rd Round pick RHP Logan Verrett for $425,000 and 11th Round pick RHP Christian Montgomery for $250,000.
Earlier today, the Mets signed 15th-rounder Phillips Evans for $650,000. According to Jim callis, that’s the highest bonus ever paid by New York outside of the first two rounds, and represents the equivalent of supplemental first-round money. Evans, a shortstop from La Costa Canyon HS (Carlsbad, Calif.), has a line-drive swing and flashes solid tools across the board, along with good instincts.
The Mets also have signed 16th-rounder Brad Marquez to a $325,000 bonus. Because Marquez is a two-sport athlete (football), the Mets will spread his bonus payments over three years. A shortstop from Odessa (Texas) HS, Marquez was one of the fastest players in the draft.
Adam Rubin adds that 12th rounder Kenny Mathews, LHP, Diamond Bar (Calif.) HS, did not sign.
About the Author: Rob Johnson
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 30 | .583 | - |
| Phillies | 35 | 37 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Nationals | 34 | 36 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Mets | 27 | 40 | .403 | 12.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 48 | .314 | 19.0 |
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Nice going, Sandy.
Wake me up in 5-6 years.
Congratulations to Sandy Alderson and his front office team on a job well done in their first draft. Well done gentlemen.
They added some interesting college arms, and college outfielders, and some very intriguing HS arms and bats.
I agree Pete, it was a nice blend, and I’m glad they went with some players based on having the highest ceilings even if they may need some polish.
Hey, polish is what the farm is for.
Let’s not jump the gun. You don’t know how well a team drafted for years after the draft. If 2 of these guys end up legit major league starters, then they get props.
That said, it’s good to see a change in philosophy and a verifiable plan.
uhhh… a job well done???? we don’t know how these players will turn out and you already claiming they did a good job??? shouldn’t you save this “job well done on the 2011 draft sandy” in the year, idk, say 2015-16?? jesus, the smoochfest continues for these F/O saber heads..
One thing to remember: It’s about the process, not the player
If Nimmo comes to the team and is an absolute beast but they don’t regularly produce major league caliber everyday players, then they failed. It means the Nimmo pick was luck.
If Nimmo is a bust but they produce 2 or 3 major league caliber everyday players each year, then they succeeded. It means the Nimmo pick was just bad luck.
One player acquisition doesn’t define a front office’s tenure the same way one at bat does not define a player’s career.
One thing to remember: It’s about the process, not the player”
WHAT????????????????????????????
I explained it pretty clearly. If you spend all your time focusing on what 1 player does, you miss out on the whole body of work.
You miss the forest for the trees. A common problem around here.
what i don’t get is the exciment for a guy who will be here in 2016 at best, yet most of you don’t focus on what we got going on, or call it simple not good players.. not consistency on many of yours and others argument, but to each his own right…
Our big league roster and high level farm teams are lacking in talent. That’s why something like this gives us hope. That there is now a plan for sustainable success.
I have no idea why that is contradictory.
Yeah well if we had been drafting and signing guys like this all along from say 2000 – 2006 we’d have a loaded team and a loaded farm system right now. The accumulation of one, two or three high ceiling guys making it through the system, year after year and an IFA or two coming through each year is what keeps your roster renewed, fresh and never complacent. Provides depth, competition and allows you to make trades when you have an opportunity.
Now don’t go getting your knickers all in a knot if an 18th rounder we gave 2nd round money doesn’t make it. It’s not how many make it. It’s how much the one’s who make it, make it by.
Draft the absolute ten best HS kids every year, even if only 1 makes it, the one that does will have way more impact, way more talent and the ability to be a game changer at bat, on the bases, and in field, not just one of the three and be here at one position for 6-10 years.
Add a couple of college players who are more seasoned and the highest possible talent culled from around the World and properly developed and “holes to fill” becomes a thing of the past.
Instead of worrying about “holes to fill” you start wondering if a young guy is ready to challenge for a staring position or which young kid will win the job. “Who can we get to play ___________?” becomes more like “do you think we should resign_______?” If you develop enough of these top ceiling HS kids (Nimmo, Evans, Tuschak, Marquez) you could fill all three OF spots for 10 years through just one draft if things fall right. Imagine that. Not having to wonder who is going to play RF this year or not having to wonder when the hell you can get rid of the latest FA bust in LF. You already have your team, already assembled ready to kick *** while their all together, in their prime all at the same time.
A draft like this one every year, a couple of top IFA’s every year and five to ten smaller IFA’s deals every year will get you in the hunt for a Division title and keep you in it every year.
Eventually you’ll have too many prospects everyone is interested in and no place to bring them. The 25′s young and producing, the guys at the lowest levels of the minors are pushing to get up here and you have to make that 4 prospect deal for a Cliff Lee or Roy Halliday. That’s not terrible either. Gone will be the days of rushing kids to “fill holes.” Also gone expecting rookie 3B to be your starting LFer, Agreeing to Borass demands for a risky FA or resign or justifying yet another terrible FA signing with the same old tired refrain “well who else were we going to get to play (insert position of latest FA bust)?”
The thing is we could have been doing this all along. Drafting players that cost more and bust more due to age but have no ceiling on their ability if they make it instead of drafting for the lowest cost and quickest potential ability to get up here. The kind of kid who when he does make it will fill RF for 10 years and go to 6 All Star games, win a batting title and a gold glove. Why we weren’t doing this all along I’ll never know. We are a big market team aren’t we? This draft will probably cost the Mets about 7 M this year. Pittsburgh spent 10 M on just two guys. Compare that to 2007 when we had two supp picks, not one and two 2nd and 2 third rounders (and gave up our #1) and spent just 2M total mostly on college relief pitchers.
The high talent ceiling on this draft isn’t even dependent on draft position. With the exception of Nimmo every single guy we drafted was available to every single other team. Every single one. True the Nats. Pittsburgh, Arizona, Toronto, KC, Boston did great with their drafts and signings but at least we got some guys who at least have the ability to be All Stars down the road. We could have been drafting like this all along and have all these “holes” filled already. Just one guy from each of the last 6 drafts making it big time would be filling every single need we STILL have on the Major League roster to this day. One Jon Niese EVERY year, not once every 6 years.
Since 2002 – 2007 all that we have left from those six drafts (which should be providing our core) is Pelfrey, Thole, Parnell, Niese, Santana (Mulvey and Humber) Murphy, Duda, Gee, Rustich, Moviel, Niessen, Clyne, Lutz, Carson, Centano, Stinson, Stoner and Evans. How many All Star game appearances would you guess we’ll get out of those six drafts? My guess is 3 or 4 at most, all by Niese. One guy. A HS pitcher from the 5th round. One guy, maybe, in six years of drafts. Murphy possibly if he goes to a team where he can play everyday some where could go to an All Star game potentially some day. Parnell? Slightest chance. The thing is all three of those guys broke into the Majors in 2008. Granted they were all rushed because of us having no other options but still were talking MAYBE making an All Star game, and doing so sometime 4 years AFTER making their debut at best.
Here we’re talking about kids who have the talent to come up here and kick *** right from the very first day and their glove won’t have to be hidden somewhere. The difference between say a Lenny Dykstra and a Tim Teufel.
Just one of Nimmo, Fulmer, Tuschak, Montgomery, Evans or especially Marquez could rip off 3 or 4 All star games easily if their skill can catch up to their talent and we both get lucky from a health and development standpoint. Getting some of that talent from lower rounds means you can get more kids with a chance and that can only translate into more kids that can make it and those that do will fill a “hole” for 10 years or more, not be an if we can find a position for him kind of guy.
I’f we had to go cheap on this years 25 in order to spend a few extra bucks in the draft it was still worth it but I still say, why can’t we do both? We had record attendance between 1999-2000 and 2006-2008. Five solid years of sell outs. Alright the payroll zoomed up during those years but the Mets must have made a fortune. Why for the cost of half a year of Luis Castillo weren’t we drafting for top talent that could either be here right now or damn close?
Why would it be an either or situation? Why would you hire a guy in Minaya who’s strength is in young prospect evaluation and then not set a budget that would allow him to do what he does best? Restrict him to just the IFA market where upside is off the charts but evaluation is much more difficult due to the earlier age IFA’s get signed at and where develpoment takes a couple of years longer (for the most part) which truly clogs your ability rule 5 wise to protect your young amateurs?
The only sense that one can derive from us giving away our #1 pick to SF for Alou and selling two #1 picks to Boston for Chris Carter is the draft budget. What else could it be? You can’t tell me that any GM in year three would just voluntarally hand over a #1 pick or that a “talent evaluator” would have sold two #1′s for a DH. That doesn’t make the slightest sense. It had to be the budget and the commitment to Selig’s slotting guidelines. Had to be. Minaya did have the “you need big stars in NY” attitude and had the ability to spend vast sums of money in assembling the 25 but it would have been nice if our owners had acted like big market owners in regard to the draft and have let Omar do his thing there as well as in Latin America.
Perhaps it took Madoff for the Wilpon to finally come to it’s collective senses or maybe that’s just a cover story for spending behind the scenes after years of cheaping out on it and scaling back on the 25 in order to pay for it but really, when the difference in being cheap only saves a mere month of what Jason Bay costs it’s seems pretty small minded to me.
Regardless of why we now have some true talent from the draft to add to some very good looking prospects from the DR and Venezuela and that gives us a chance and some hope as long as we continue to keep doing the same both in the draft and in the Caribbean.
2014 here we come!!!!!!!!!
that;s being really optomistic.
How come the people who stood on a soapbox and declared the Mets would not sign Nimmo (even though they know nothing about Nimmo) aren’t commenting on this blog? So weird….
I agree here Donal. Nobody here knows what any of these kids will be. It’s now up to the Mets development staff, but you can CLEARLY see a change in amateur philosophy here and that is a good sign of things to come.
Clearly?? based on what?? nimmo who may be a bust, wheeler a single A pitcher and 2 PTBN later???? omg.. this is just f*ing amazing… the smoochfest continues!!!
Based on they spent way more than ever before and went after high ceiling guys rather than guys who would sign easier and could get to the big club faster to fill in.
Drafting on talent rather than need.
when you draft on talent you better make sure you have a good team on the field, because we won’t know whether they’ll be good or not right… so having a bad team on the majors, then wait 5 or 6 years for these “high ceiling” prospects to develop is too much time for the fans of a franchiZe in the LARGEST MARKET IN BASEBALL!!!
you rather throw away 2012-13-14 just to see if these guys will be any good??
the problem is, Alex, that you can’t build a good team in 1 or 2 years. Not one that will be consistently good, anyway.
You can go the 1997 Marlins route and ya, they won the World series, but whats next?
“so having a bad team on the majors, then wait 5 or 6 years for these “high ceiling” prospects to develop is too much time for the fans of a franchiZe in the LARGEST MARKET IN BASEBALL!!!”
Too bad. The largest market in baseball has had a National League team that has specialized in mediocrity and disappointment. There is no quick fix for the current problems. They will take time, focus and discipline.
You want to cry “win now” every year and chase the biggest free agents on the market every winter, there’s another team in this town you’ll be more comfortable rooting for. But, even they had their down time.
Alex, so based on your statement you’re trying to suggest that the 2011 draft class was scouted in the same mindset and signed under the same restrictions that we’ve seen over the past 6-10 years?
You’re not understanding this because all you’re trying to do is look for a negative spin and complain so you can type 7 question marks in every response.
Brandon Nimmo could be a bust. So could Bryce Harper. So could Stephen Strasburg. There isn’t a single amateur basebal player who could NOT be a bust. Focusing on that possibility is simply foolish. The fact is the Mets are turning the corner towards a different type of amateur philosophy both in who they draft and WHAT they sign them for.
They could have EASILY drafted a 1st rounder who didn’t want 2.1million. But they did, and they paid him.
No GM is EVER going to have a draft class full of players who contribute to the big leagues.
Stop looking for ways to hate the franchise you supposedly adore. The fact they are changing is a good thing, because what has the old way gotten you so far?
again, they are changing because obviously, the money ball ways sandy has wasn’t what minaya had, you guys are underestimating minaya’s draft classes and giving depodesta’s TOO MUCH credit!!!!!!!
CALM DOWN!!!!!
wait and see in a few years to start drooling about a nimmo or wheeler, or fullmer from this front office, to say “thew guard is changing, omg he’s a genious” and all this smoochfest you guys got going on needs to stop..
DO I WANT THEM TO BE GOOD?? you damn straight, but to discredit omar’s players is a bit premature when most of them will be here next year filling up or competing for rosters spot..
“again, they are changing because obviously, the money ball ways sandy has wasn’t what minaya had,”
This draft looks nothing like what was depicted in a book written close to a decade ago. Stop worrying about a book you won’t read.
And who calls Alderson a genius other than the Brown Shirts trying to attack him?
Alex: If this draft was based on moneyball, they wouldn’t have drafted Nimmo in the 1st round.
Quit throwing big words around if you don’t know what they mean.
You didn’t read the book, so trying to come here and pretend you know what Moneyball was makes you look even more like a fool.
for ALL you who don’t know what money ball is, here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball
Alex, you understand that posting a wikipedia article about Moneyball just proves you haveno idea what you’re talking about?
So don’t read the book, read the wikipedia page! Got it
at least i provide MMO readers with some insight.. what do you do other than insult ppl who don’t agree with your post??
What insight? You’re poorly expressed opinion is not insight, especially when you are just incorrectly regurgitating stuff other people said.
and what you say is 100% right all the time.. that is exactly why ppl treat you the way they treat you, you changed subjects all the time, deviate from conv, insult others when back into a corner.. yeah, i’ll see a post of yours and i wont even reply, is getting to the point where i will get banned again if i keep answering your comments..
So you think posting a wikipedia page that proves your own theory wrong when you’re trying to prove it right is giving anybody insight?
You’ve never read Moneyball, correct?
Then all you are doing is using other people’s thoughts to come up with your own.
Give the book a try. It’s more interesting than the Wikipedia page, I guarantee it.
You don’t have to agree 100% with the book, I certainly do not… but if you want insight, try reading the book you talk about on this site all the time rather than pretend to know what it’s about.
Then I would love to hear your thoughts.
please, read where it says: IMPACT!!! or my favorite part:
When the New York Mets hired Sandy Alderson (Beane’s predecessor and mentor with the A’s) as their general manager after the 2010 season and hired Beane’s former associates Paul DePodesta and J.P. Ricciardi to the front office, the team became known as the “Moneyball Mets”.[2]
Who cares what copy writers called them? Are copy writers baseball experts? Do they have any first hand knowledge of Alderson’s strategy or ideas?
Or are they guys who have a job involved making snappy sounding headlines?
so, wait.. the writers of baseball, who basically spend all day around baseball stuff, don’t have any knowledge of alderson’s strategy or ideas, yet YOU DO????
comical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, I said copy writers, the guys who write the headlines and goofy sayings do that.
And neither of the guys for the New Yorker are baseball writers. Good writers that write about sports in general, but they aren’t baseball writers.
find me people actually professionally involved in baseball who say that the Mets drafted and evaluate talent based on Moneyball.
Why do you have to start insulting people and calling him a fool?
He didnt call you or Donal names and he has a right to like or dislike whatever Mets players or personnel he wants without having to be insulted for it!
maniac, that is what he does, i mention below how he does that a lot, yet JOE D seems not to do anyhting about his act.. he oftend does this when back into a corner
Pick and choose much? This guy calls everyone a loser that doesn’t agree with him, but NOW, you’ve got his back because he makes ridiculous statements he can’t back up and gets called on it?
is funny how you jesseP claim they don’t use moneyball to draft or evaluate, YET EVERYONE around baseball know they do, otherwise they wouldn’t call them that… you never wanna lose an argument, and when often do you insult ppl if things don’t go your eay..
F*** MONEYBALL AND THESE BUNCH OF LOSERS!!!!!!
alex: People all over baseball are saying Brandon Nimmo was a moneyball selection? Where have they said that Nimmo specifically was a pick based on Moneyball theories?
I realize you do not understand this but drafting Nimmo and Fulmer contradicts EVERYTHING about the Moneyball draft strategy.
read again, i am certainly you know more english than i do (since you always telling me to learn it), i specifically said everyone in baseball know they are the “moneyballers”.. yet i get call a “fool” by you if i call them that
No, you said everyone in baseball knows they use Moneyball to draft and evaluate players.
Can you show us someone professionally involved with baseball who has said that?
Read again. Tell me where in Moneyball, drafting Brandon Nimmo makes sense?
I’ll even quote your wikipedia page
“Moneyball also touches onto the A’s methods of prospect selection. Sabermetricians argue that a college baseball player’s chance of MLB success is far and away higher than a traditional high school draft pick. Beane maintains that high draft picks spent on high school prospects, regardless of talent or physical potential as evaluated by traditional scouting, are riskier than if they were spent on more polished college players”
People use the word moneyball now as a way to describe people who look at advanced statistics. It’s a word that has taken a life of its own. People who READ and UNDERSTAND the book realize that was a philosophy in the early 2000′s to get a team with a LIMITED budget to compete with teams with MUCH LARGER budgets.
That’s moneyball. When the Mets have a $50million budget for their entire roster, then lets talk about the Moneyball Mets. Until then, go buy the book and quit letting others think for you.
well, last i checked the team on the field as of right now, is what exactly, around 50 million or so w/o reyes?? how is the team doing as of late???? i mean, eamus was a pure sabermetric pick up right? since he was an OBP type guy , how did that worked out for the mets??
what was sabermetrics about Emaus? Turner had a higher minor league OBP. So no… he was a player who looked like he could be big league ready at an infield position where they had NO sure thing starter.
So we use the team’s salary due to DL’d players to make the case that they are operating on Moneyball principles? That doesn’t even make sense.
btw Alex I like how you backed off your Nimmo being a Moneyball pick when I even went so low as to use your wikipedia page against you to prove Moneyball philosophy would not pick Nimmo.
Did you read Moneyball?
Do you know how to read?
No body knows what these kids will be but just paid him more than a Quarter of Castillos salary!
Not saying Sandy was wrong to pay it just trying to point out that spending Millions on maybes is not really all that much different than spending it on guys you KNOW are MLB players…
The Market sets the price not Sandy so you can’t take Sandy to task for it but it still shows how Overslotting can be as wasteful if not MORE than signing free Agents, Cause at least the free agents will be guaranteed to give you some games at the MLB level.
Now I’m not suggesting Sandy shouldn’t have paid him what I DO suggest though is that the league change the rules of the draft so that MAYBES don’t get paid millions or can hold a team for ransom. If MLB really wants to have slot guidelines change them from guidlines to CAPS!
And if the player doesn’t want to play baseball for that amount of money he can go get a contract from the NFL!
It is rediculous that a kid who has never played a game in the MLB and may never play one to get paid more than a guy who has!
EARN your money like everyone else, Show your worth it and you’ll get that 18 Contract for your troubles!
Well, you can have your proven MLB player Alex Cora, his $2M vesting option, and his .227/.290/.265 2011 season. I’ll take my blue-chip prospect.
Really?
Tell me who has contributed more in the MLB?
Alex Cora or Nimmo?
Here is your problem. You prospect might NEVER make the MLB!
And if that is the case Alex Cora would be a lot closer to the HOF than your prospect now wouldn’t he?
A Prospect is a Maybe. No Guarantee he is ever going to see even one inning in an MLB park!
Mark Phillips
Chris Smith
Colton Williams
Maxwell Sapp
Kyle McCulloch
Any of those names making the All Star game anytime soon?
They were ALL Prospects too!
metsie, do yourself a favor.. stop it… alex cora sucks in so many ways is not even funny, while i agree with you nimmo might not even make it to the Majors, i would’ve rather had an empty roster spot than al;ex cora on the team.. and 2 million for him was another reason why minaya was way in over his head as a GM.. he basically had a million dollar giveaway to players past the prime/career of their baseball career..
Alex when you spew is it triggered by a single word or word in combination?
The point I was making had NOTHING to do with the worth of Alex Cora and everything to do with the notion that some PROSPET who may never play a game in the MLB was BETTER than some guy who actually made it through the Minors and earned a promotion to the MLB!
If making the MLB is the goal of every player and taking players in the draft that you believe WILL MAKE IT to the MLB, then an MLB player is a lottery ticket that paid off, a Prospect is a lottery ticket than MIGHT pay off. No Guarantee!
Don’t you see what TruFan would like us to do? If we follow his philosophy he would trade almost an player thats on the MLB squad for a kid in AA.
Is that building the MLB team or merely building AA?
The philosophy that spawned his statement that I was replying to is based on his idea that having a good minor league system is better than having a good MLB team!
metsie, first of all, the core ALWAYS have saluted you, second of all, i get your point, trust me i do..
is funny how whenever they mention guys like nimmo and his 2.1 million dollar bonus, they look for the biggest scrub we got to compare him, they don’t look for guys like tatis who at 1 million or so played a HUGE role for us, no, they go straight to alex cora..
The problem is Alex that they say one thing when it fits them and then deny that fact when it no longer suits them.
And I am trying to show them that talking out of both sides of their mouth is not going to go unnoticed and I will use their own statements against them…
I don’t think Cora was anything special, But I also don’t think Nimmo is anything special until he shows me he is!
He is promising…So too was Cora at some point in time.
And if Nimmo trashes his arm and never makes it to the MLB then what good was PROMISE compared to actual game playing contribution?
I am trying to point out to the builders (some who are not 100% wrong) that having players on Baseball america’s list are not doing anything towards winning a WS or making a playoff UNTIL they actually make it to the MLB squad!
And this isn’t golf where you get a handicap head start based on how many guys you have on the BA prospect list!
Until they are full fledged Major Leaguers they do not help us one bit! They are just a MAYBE in waiting!
metsie, points well taken as usual..
Why is everyone making such a big deal about this pick? because I don’t remember everyone making a big deal out of last year’s 1st round pick, Matt Hravey. Nobody was saying “great job Omar” “Congratulations to Omar Minaya!!!!” when he was picked. But we are hearing that with Nimmo, Why is that? He’s a great talent sure, but that’s what you expect to get with the 13th overall pick! So I don’think that’s the reason.
I think it has nothing to do with Nimmo, and everything to do with WHO picked him. It’s so obvious, every time somebody says something good about Nimmo a “good job Sandy” quote or “it’s great to see this new F/O’s change in philosophy, and it’s a good sign of things to come” quote added on later – Something about how great Sandy Alderson is, is ALWAYS thrown in there, it just shows that they are only saying great things about Nimmo because of who picked him.
So I wouldn’t trust anything these guys say about Nimmo, and the rest of the draft because they aren’t going to be objective at all. They are just saying all this only because of WHO picked them, and not because of their actual talent – In a few years we’ll find out if this draft is any good, talk to me about Nimmo then.
Good Point Vinny….No one made a big deal about Harvey and he looks like the next likely MET ACE we will see in Citi Field…
But making a big deal about Harvey (Murphy, Duda, Davis, Turner) would be counter to the OMAR SUCKS argument being made to support the Oakland Model!
yeah because nobody has ever made a big deal about Murphy or Ike Davis right?
People were happy when Harvey was drafted. I checked the blog. It just wasn’t as celebrated because everybody was so miserable back then. I said practically the same thing back then that I say now. Good job signing him, now go develop him.
And again, what is the “Oakland model”
Yeah they were so happy that they forgot to give the guy who drafted them ANY credit for filling up the Minors with them and the list I keep trotting out that seems to be ignored whenever it is brought up!
Should I list them all again?
Should I list the number of DRAFT PICKS that the Phillies made that have made the team?
Should I point out they got those 4 guys over the course of a decade? Took them 10 years to find 4 keepers and the rest all had to be traded to fill out the roster?
Compare 10 years for 4 guys to 6 years for 7+ guys?
Who did a better job filling thier Minor League system?
Huh?
And I didn’t even count Wright and Reyes in that 7+. Omar also was a major factor in the FO when they were taken!
Just not the GM!
Jessup I don’t put you in the same trick bag as Donal here…
I get what your saying just don’t agree with the EXTREMITY of what you propose.
I get it you don’t think much of Omar and no one is suggesting he was a GREAT GM.
What he was/is a GOOD talent evaluator and he sees things in players other do not see. So on first look his picks don’t make Baseball america’s list of top pork and don’t openly appear like HOF candidates waiting to happen.
But you have to admit when they get to the MLB they show they are ALL capable of being starters on an MLB team.
We have a problem with Murphy ONLY because we also drafted Davis! You call that dumb but I call it smart when you consider the state of Delgado and 1B at the time they were picked!
Murphy could be a starting 1B for an awful lot of teams out there and be their all star! Look at the list of 1Bs out there and see where Murphy ranks compared to that list! Thats a pretty impressive pick if you ask me!
Davis is even better! Could be better than Howard if his power numbers progress and he wasn’t playing in the Bonomo salt flats! He is the only reason why Murphy has no position…him and David Wright!
Murphy even showed good glove as (his natural) 3B position. Do the same thing with him compared to other 3bs around the league!
Bottomline I see no reason to trash Omar as he did a pretty good job in only 6 years. Considering a once a year promotion for a draft pick we should only be seeing the first two years of Omar’s picks right now. If the guys he picked first are any indication I can only imagine how good his last 4 years of picks were considering we didn’t win due to injury and he picked higher than usual!
Lets just stop the bull here and stop double talking (not you, just posters in general here) and stop trying to paint Omar as Evil incarnate and incompetent all in order to promote a particular philosophy you would like to see.
Truth is Omar got fired as a public relations play, not because anyone thought he was horrible at building a team.
His problem was everyone got hurt which I think we have proved was not HIS problem as it happened to Sandy too this year!
Wright, Davis, Now Murphy, Reyes on his usual hamstring vacation schedule…
All a GM can do is pick the best players available, Sometimes he is forced to BUY to get them! (See Philly!) The reasons are not wanting to rush a kid or because you are close enough to competing that the 20-40 Mil per year is worth it for that competitive and winning season!
As for what people felt when a guy was drafted it makes no difference especially not if they then go onto claim a year later that that minor league system is barren!
If you believe the pick was good then it should ALWAYS be considered a good pick since you agreed with the initial assesment!
If he was wrong then so too were you!
A point lost on a lot of us!
Too much ASSUMPTION by many not enough looks at the empirical evidence of what they did when they actually got here…
We need to stop with the bull around here and start judging people and GMs fairly.
That applies not only to the HATE OMAR crowd but the “Sandy is a (Sarcastic) Genius” crowd as well!
Lets stop judging people based on belief and start looking at the actual RESULTS!
And until all of Omar’s/Sandy’s picks have been determined to PASS or FAIL anyone suggesting just how good they are is merely talking out of their BATS (I wanted a different word there but I am trying to be nice as there are ladies around! LOL)
What is the oakland model? (Picking up since it’s a different track)
The Oakland Model is one where you build the best baseball America list you possibly can and let all of them go when they prove to be good players because your more concerned about sticking to the MONEYBALL book than winning championships!
I don’t really put you in that trick bag but you have argued on their behalf on many occassions!
At some point you have to BUY INSURANCE, KEEP your GOOD and Add to it…
and if you don’t believe that then look at the Phillies who ran away with the division this year!
Cause they learned that lesson and implemented it quite correctly!
Yankess used to do that too!
And they went to all those world series’ Oakland never went to by following what was in that book!
My Goodness Metsie. I’m almost glad you didn’t respond to my Murphy all-star point below because I fell asleep halfway through reading these 2 rants. I’m kidding… but it was real long as now my response must be!
First of all. I think what you do mistakenly and what some “critics” of Omar do mistakenly is your side of the debate is ALL or NOTHING. The harsh critics try to suggest that nothing good came from Minaya’s farm. That is untrue. If it were true, he would go down as the worst GM who ever held the job. He isn’t.
But then there’s people like you who sit there and pump their chest of guys like Lucas Duda who hasn’t proven a thing yet as a full time big leaguer.
You’re mentioning the Phillies and you’re not comparing apples to apples. The Phillies HAD prospects that other teams liked well enough to get them Halladay or Lee etc. The problem is the Mets did too but it was ALL they had. The Phillies will be in a little bit of trouble when Halladay’s contract expires. If they win a World Series during it, then who cares right? But if they don’t, then they could regret some of their decisions.
You’re also using a franchise that I don’t think is a model of how to do things. I don’t look at Philly and say that is what I want the Mets to be as a franchise, because they built everything by being bad for a VERY long time. Just like I don’t want the Rays to be the model. I think the Phillies went to an all or nothing model. I don’t want that.
I want what LA Angels, Atlanta Braves, Twins, Red Sox do. Teams that consistently find themselves in the mix, don’t go on huge losing stretches anymore and can always afford to replace players with players from within. Do they all win World Series’? No. But the Twins didn’t win a WS but they damn sure had a better chance to do so than a lot of other teams. I’m not saying build a team exactly like them, I’m saying build it in the mindset of “try to win this year but try to win consistently for 10 years.”
The problem I have with guys like Murphy, Duda, and even Davis is I don’t think they are as good as we as Mets fans think they are. Not yet anyway. Could they be? Sure. But I think it’s easy for guys like us to paint them as everyday players because we see them and root for them.
Murphy has no position because he’s not very good defensively. Not because of other guys. He isn’t. I like Murph but he does nothing special anywhere in the field. He’s below average. Could he be a 1B? Sure… if you can guarantee he hits above .300 year after year, why not?
If you ask me who would I rather be my 1B than Dan Murphy I’d say: Fielder, Cabrera, Konerko, AGone, Votto, Pujols, Morse, Tex, Howard, Freeman, Davis without a doubt. So that would rank him 12th or so? That’s okay I guess, but bragging you have the 12th or 13th best overall 1B isn’t really something worth bragging about is it?
As for the PR move to fire Omar. He got fired because he works in NY and failed 5 times and had success once. No matter the “reasons” or “excuses,” he failed. I liked Omar, but he had to go. He was given every opportunity to bring a World Series here and he failed. And by doing so, he dug the franchise in a hole which is what you do when you “go for it” sometimes. Did he get adequate young players? Yes. Every farm system can produce a Lucas Duda type player. But he isn’t producing a star. And one of the reasons why could be his lack of attention to the amateur draft to sign old players who cost him picks.
You mean like all those folks who are jumping for joy for finding NIMMO who has dont NOTHING at all?
I mean Duda is playing well hitting well and for Power…
What has Nimmo done in the MLB so far?
What has Wheeler?
Did you not jump up and down how great a deal we made for trading an All Star for him?
You say Omar failed 5 times…
Did he fail or did the players fail by not keeping themselves in good physical condition and breaking down?
Is Sandy to blame for this season that featured an injured Wright, Davis and Reyes three of our BIGGEST STARS in an 8 man everyday position?
HARDLY!
To suggest that Omar should have known they were going to get hurt is to suggest Sandy should have known they were going to get hurt and NOT ONE of the replacements who took their place were aquired by Sandy!
I dopn’t blame him but YOU DO blame Omar!
Is that right? Should I be able to blame Sandy for those injuries hurting our season?
You say the Phillies HAD prospects other people wanted…
Can you PROVE that we don’t?
Is it that we don’t have any or is it that we just haven’t traded them because we are still trying to determine WHO of the many kids we have are going to be our core before we go selling off those minors for the guys we need to ENSURE a playoff?
And if your going to judge how WELL you drafted based off how many trades were made then you have to say Phillips was a damn DRAFTING GENIUS for all the playes he got that others wanted!
Is that the case? Again HARDLY!
What is MORE correct is that the Phillies picked AHEAD of all those teams that drafted those guys and picked BADLY!
But because they picked HIGHER their picks still retained some VALUE because they were highly touted when they were taken but still failed for the Phillies. They may be better once they leave the phillies but that doesn’t make the phillies good at developing talent it makes the OTHER guy good at it!
Only 4 of their drafted players were actually GOOD ENOUGH to keep!
GOOD ENOUGH to build around. And if they were ACTUALLY good at drafting then they would have drafted Halladay and or Lee in the draft they had a shot and passed!
And it should also be pointed out that the teams that traded them Halladay and Lee needed THREE players and LEE HIMSELF before they would take the deal!
So those guys weren’t considered GOOD players it was a trade for mass quantity not QUALITY!
All facts that seem to be sidestepped and ignored whenever someone say the Phillies are the master of the Build!
They aren’t! They are great at making trades and thats about it!
They are good for spending money when it needed to be!
And if they don’t win the WS this year they wont look any smarter than Omar did!
right on
Because any conversation involving Minaya early last year was pretty much how it was a count down to the end of his tenure.
That and Minaya’s drafting and player development were already leaving bitter tastes in people’s mouths.
Too bad Omar Minaya never got to go double and triple over slot guidelines like Alderson. Imagine what could have been? Still under those incredible restrictions, Minaya came away with some solid prospects and of course Jon Niese, Ike Davis, Lucas Duda, Dillon Gee, Daniel Murphy, Jose Reyes and the best is yet to come in Matt Harvey and Jeurys Familia who many believe will be No. 1 and 2 type starters. It’s said that a team who consistently comes away with one solid major league regular out of each draft class is doing something right. Let’s hope Alderson did something right too. We’ll find out in a few years. Less that 15% of each draft class have major league careers of 5 years or longer. Half of them fizzle out before Triple-A. Let’s hope our odds are better.
“Too bad Omar Minaya never got to go double and triple over slot guidelines like Alderson.”
Pelfrey signed for over slot.
“Imagine what could have been? ”
why wasn’t it? Pelf was signed at over slot, why weren’t there more? He did promise us he would build the farm. Even if the Wilpons were married to over slot, that is still no excuse for drafting relief pitchers in the early rounds.
Reyes and Familia were IFAs. And Reyes was signed when Phillips was GM.
As for the other guys you mentioned, Niese and Davis were the only 2 draftees is Minaya 6 year tenure that were legit major league players in their positions. Murphy and Duda are the 1B/LF/DH guys we have so many of and play out of position.
So, lets say Harvey is up by 2013. That means in 9 years since Minaya was hired, he provided 3 legit starting players from the draft. At minimum, that should have been 1 every year. Even you said so.
He did some interesting things in the IFA market, but the draft was somewhere he underperformed.
Always count on Donal to ride the “Hate on Minaya” gravy rain. All Aboard?
You were factually wrong. I can’t help that.
Everyone keeps saying the Mets have so many 1B/LF/DH guys, but other than Duda, who are they? Maybe Evans? But he’s probably never going to be a starter anyway, and he wasn’t drafted by Omar by the way.
Murphy is a 3rd baseman, the only reason why he played at other postions is because his postion was filled by David Wright. He’s NOT a 1B or a LF.
So who else is there?
And yes Omar did draft solid major league players every year he was here. In 05 Niese, Thole, Parnell, and Pelf. In 06 Murphy and Joe Smith. In 07 Duda and Gee. And in 08 Ike davis – You can’t judge the 09 and 10 drafts because it’s too early to judge yet – Even in 08 draft, there’s guys who can still make it to the majors, and be soild players too.
Murphy and duda are soild major league players, sure they have bad defense, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t major league players. If you say they aren’t major laguers because they play bad defense, then Ryan Howard wouldn’t be considered a major leaguer too, Dan Uggla wouldn’t be a major leaguer by you either, so would Ryan Braun, Lance Berkman, and Adam Dunn(before this year) because they play bad defense too.
Evans, Murphy, Lutz, Satin, Thole, Valdespin, and thats just at the upper levels. I’m giving the lower level guys the benefit of the doubt.
“then Ryan Howard wouldn’t be considered a major leaguer too, Dan Uggla wouldn’t be a major leaguer by you either, so would Ryan Braun, Lance Berkman, and Adam Dunn(before this year) because they play bad defense too.”
Let me know when Murphy or Duda put up anything like what we have come to expect from those guys and get back to me.
And never mind the fact that I’m giggling at the idea that the Phillies are married to that stone footed strike out waiting to happen for a long time.
Valdespin has never played 1st, Evans is a backup, he’s probably just going to be a RH hitter coming off the bench, and Lutz plays 3rd. And we already talked about Murphy, he’s a 3rdbaseman.
I know you love adavnced stats, and I’m gonna guess you think wOBA is the most accurate of them, so, I’ll use it here because it’s probably what you would use.
Howard .357
Murphy .351
Duda .358
Dan Uggla’s Career wOBA is .355
So according to the stat YOU would use, Duda and Murphy DO put up numbers like Uggla and Howard – So again after looking at that, how Howard and Uggla major leaguers, and Duda and Murphy aren’t?
“Valdespin has never played 1st, Evans is a backup, he’s probably just going to be a RH hitter coming off the bench, and Lutz plays 3rd. And we already talked about Murphy, he’s a 3rdbaseman.”
doesn’t matter where they are currently standing on the field. their skill sets peg them as 1B/LF/DH types. If a guy logs time at a position but is awful at it, do you really consider him for that position when he comes up?
Uggla is a 2B, so we’re not supposed to expect more offense out of him.
And the thing about advanced stats is sample size. Duda and Murphy don’t have the time in to get an accurate read. And besides, I already said Howard is a strikeout waiting to happen and he’ll be a nightmare for the Phillies for years to come.
“I know you love adavnced stats, and I’m gonna guess you think wOBA is the most accurate of them, so, I’ll use it here because it’s probably what you would use. ”
Don’t use them if you don’t get them.
The only reason why I used wOBA here is because if I used any other traditional stat, I would be attacked for it, you would say that they aren’t accurate, so I used wOBA instead because I know you liked it. Sure the sample size was small, but I felt it was better that using any other traditional stat because I knew you would attack me if i did…..but I got attacked anyway, so I can’t win either way.
So I know you already don’t like the traditional ones, and now I can’t uses the advanced ones, so what stats are OK to use for this? the traditional ones are no good, and now the advanced ones are not good either.
wOBA which using the following weights:
HR: 1.95
3B: 1.56
2B: 1.24
RBOE: .92
1B: .9
HBP: .75
NIBB:.72
Funny how that wOBA thing works isn’t it?
A better gets more credit for getting on with defensive help than he does for getting a REAL hit all on his own!
A HR Hitter gets just slightly above TWICE as much credit as a guy who reaches with defensive help and only .71 more credit than a guy who hits a double!
Great stat…Singles hitters look AS GOOD as HR hitters! and guys who reach on error are better than guys who can actually hit!
Such is the OBP centric world of Tango Tiger!
It is obvious to ANY REASONABLE person that those weights are meant to tip the scales in favor of OB as opposed to actual batter skill!
This way HIGH OBP gets valued more than actual hitting ability. And it is this tipping of the scales that is being used in all this “RESEARCH” to PROVE OBP is as high an RS device as actual hitting and RBI is!
Because the guys with high BA and RBI can be ranked as good as a guy who is lucky that the defense screwed up either via error or HBP!
Better would be:
Sac – .33 (Sacs aren’t included by Tango but they score runs!
HBP – .50
IBB – .60
RBOE – .70
NIBB – .90
1B – 1
2B – 2
3B – 3
HR – 4
get your facts right before posting. Those “linear weights” you found are the values calculated after multiplying the real linear weights by 1.15 so that wOBA is scaled to OBP. The real linear weights values are (in runs above the run value of an out):
HR 1.70, 3B 1.37, 2B 1.08, 1B 0.77, NIBB 0.62
Real Linear weights?
Multiplied by an arbitrary number (1.15)?
To make them relate to OBP?
THANY YOU for proving my point!
By the way I notice you didn’t mention what the REAL linear weight for an RBOE is.
Do you even have a clue to what a Linear Weight is?
Vinny B –
Your list is not complete. Guys who play bad defense include Ruben Tejada. This kid is a fine AA or AAA player.
Tejada doesn’t play bad defense. He in fact plays very good defense, and he’ll get better as he gets more experience.
Ruben plays good defense if you don’t look at his errors and compare him with other players. He’s flashy but he’s really not quick and he makes a lot of errors. Look it up, both in the minors and last year. If you say he’s only a kid, then he should be in the minors until he’s major league quality. Ruben is flashy, no doubt. But he’s not prime time right now.
Murphy and Duda, both are guys I like. I enjoy watching their AB’s and their effort. I was on the give Murphy a chance at 1B until Ike’s ready bandwagon in 2009. Defended him the whole off season. I’d love for Duda to play everyday in LF but I gues he’ll wind up in RF. There is every place for these two but we have Lutz 1B/3B 25, Satin 1B/2B/3B 25, Evans 1B/LF/RF.
Why can’t we ever draft someone who can actually be entrusted with a position of their own like most teams? How many guys do you need that can play 1B?
Even our catcher played 2 years at 1B in the minors. That’s 6 guys in the Majors and AAA, all around the same age and none considered to be average defensive players anywhere and in totality probably have played more games as professionals at 1B then anywhere else, so it’s no wonder they never learned how to play another position.
This is just weird. No other team in the majors collects so many guys all around the same age and level and all play the same position as well as another one and none of them play any of them well.
And while Murphy and Duda certainly have their strong points comparing them to guys who’ve gone to All Star games and won MVP’s is criminally laughable.
Donal said that Murphy and Duda aren’t major league players because they play bad defense, so the point i was trying to make was that there was other players in the league that played just as bad defense as them and are very succesful major league players. And I’m sure when those guys were coming up, you would be saying the same thing about them as your saying with Duda and Murphy right now.
And I remember when both Howard and Utley were coming up, they were very bad defensively, and made TONS of mental mistakes that cost them a lot of games. But they got better as they got more experience, so why can’t we see the same type of progression from Duda and Murphy?
Murphy and Duda can make all star games in the future, I don’t think that’s laughable. I think Murphy can improve his defense to the point where he doesn’t kill you in the field, he’ll never be a a really good fielder, but I think he can be decent.
I always knew Murph was a good hitter, but it wasn’t until he turned on that fastball from Verlander for HR in detroit where I thought he could be REALLY GOOD. – THAT was very impressive – He was fourth in the NL in hitting before he got hurt, and I don’t thik that’s a fluke……It’s just his defensive and the mental mistakes, but I think he can improve on that as he gets more experience.
And I can see Duda hitting about 30 HR’s a year, he has tremendous power, and he’s hitting over .300 since taking over for Carlos Beltran. Why can’t he ever make it to an all star game in the future? Why is that laughable?
Only in that your comparing them to guys who’ve been to all Star games, hit 25 HR’s every full season they’ve been in the Majors, gotten MVP votes and in fact won MVP’s.
Plus there’s the fact that Howard can be hidden at 1B and for all the derision about Uggla’s defense he does make all the routine plays (save for All Star games) and at least knows what he’s doing out there.
I did write today that Murphy could make an All Star game some day, just not with us because of the configuration of our roster. Davis is the 1B man assuming he can get out there but Murphy is undeniably a good part of a 25 man team. It just seems to me that we’ll never be able to get full value from him because 2B is destined to be shared by Tejada and Valdespin if we resign Reyes and if we don’t Valdespin and Murphy, both batting from the same side aren’t even matches for a platoon. Tejada IMO would have to be the SS so that leaves 12 starts at 3B and what else? Bench, PH. That’s really it.
Duda I like a lot too, but not as much in RF. In fact RF scares me for him and by the time Bay is out of here hopefully a guy who can run like a deer (Lagares) will take over in LF and to tell you the truth Kirk, Vaughn or Puello might make a move on RF so where could he go? He’s probably in RF for 2012 and 2013 and after that it becomes iffy because of the defense factor, not to say it couldn’t go as well as we’re all hopeing but still, it’s just not likely that he’ll be our RFer all that long.
The whole configuration of the Roster doesn’t work with these guys. I know I’ll be accused of a 2nd guess here but I don’t give a ****. If instead of Ike we had drafted a RFer, (and gotten one), not signed Bay the configuration would work and WE could bury a glove at 1B, so for those reasons we won’t get a chance for an extended run for those two, therefore no multiple all Star games, no MVP votes and no MVP’s, here anyway.
Laughable, was strong though. I’ll take that back.
Let’s just answer the question starting with your first statement which answered Vinny’s response and forget the rest of the babbling that takes place after that.
“Only in that your comparing them to guys who’ve been to all Star games, hit 25 HR’s every full season they’ve been in the Majors, gotten MVP votes and in fact won MVP’s.”
Right off the bat you did not answer Vinny B’s question correctly. He was not comparing Duda and Murphy to current All Stars or anybody he was saying that why is it laughable to ever think that Duda, with experience and time, can make the All Star team sometime in the future. He just may become a guy who can hit 30 Hrs And same reference with Murphy too. While I’m not so sure Murphy will ever hit good enough to be in an All Star game I also would CERTAINLY not bet the house that he would NEVER do it, let’s say, 3 years from now either.
But he wasn’t comparing them to anybody. You answered the question totally wrong.
The reason jackass is because Vinny brought up Dan Uggla and Ryan Howard and their defensive deffencies in discussing Murphy and Duda and their are significant differences between those players.
Both Uggla and Howard had positions, neither Duda or Murphy do as of right now and it is an extreme long shot that both of them will next year, at least for us.
It is also extremely difficult to make an all Star team when you don’t have a position on your own team.
Got it chimp.
but he wasn’t comparing them to Uggla and Howard.
That’s what you’re implying. And don’t worry about what position they wind up playing because whatever it is will be position they’re playing if they ever get an All Star nod.
If the Mets don’t have room for them, they will be forced to either MAKE room for them, or trade them to another team that DOES have the room for them – I’m sure there would be PLENTLY of teams that would want Duda and Murphy right now, and I’m sure they will give you a lot of value in return for them too.
The Mets aren’t just going to have Duda and Murphy sitting on the bench, when they are hitting like this….and espcially since they are still young, and can get better.
Having them make an All Star team for somone else is entirely different matter than making one for us and does us absolutely no good what so ever.
And while Duda would be a name some AL teams or NL teams with LF vacancy at would be interested he wouldn’t fetch much, right now and Murphy’s not tradeable until ST and even then to who?
No position on your own team means you have no shot at an All Star game. Win an everyday position, then you got a shot.
“Having them make an All Star team for somone else is entirely different matter than making one for us and does us absolutely no good what so ever.”
Wrong again. It doesn’t matter what team they’re playing for if they become All Star players. Which was the point Vinny B was trying to make.
and the rest of your answer was not relevant because it was just your usual babbling on and on.
“No position on your own team means you have no shot at an All Star game. Win an everyday position, then you got a shot.”
They said the same things about Ryan Howard way back when….
He had no glove or position either…His bat got him a position his glove could not!
His glove is why he was a 6th round pick as well!
I don’t see how it’s a bad thing to be so deep at one postion that you don’t have room for two young players hitting .320 and .280 – That’s a GREAT problem to have.
“Just one of Nimmo, Fulmer, Tuschak, Montgomery, Evans or especially Marquez could rip off 3 or 4 All star games easily if their skill can catch up to their talent and we both get lucky from a health and development standpoint”
You ALREADY have the guys drafted in this years draft going to allstar games, but it’s laughable that I think Duda and Murphy, (two guys hitting .300 in the majors leagues) could possibly go to an all star game, if they can improve defensively as they get more experienced? THAT’S laughable?…..But the draft picks this year, who are YEARS away from ever being anything, are going to 3 or 4 all star games, that’s not laughable?
Come on.
Yeah. See to make an all Star team you have to have a position. Duda could impress in RF or not. Who knows. If he does great, if he doesn’t what are the options? 1B is taken, LF is clogged up for the forseeable future. Murph has the same problem. Where’s he playing?
No one’s making an all Star team when they can’t even be a regular on their own team.
Maybe none of these kids makes it to Queens but at least if they do, they’ll be able to fully defend a premium position. Not bounce around the field like hobo’s.
you’re wasting time with unnecessary details.
He’s saying that one day he could be an All Star player. Whether it’s with the Mets or another team and whatever position he happens to call his own we’ll see. But all he’s saying is Duda may make the all star team one day and I agree that’s it quite possible too.
And where? Who knows but hopefully with the Mets..and what position? Who knows but if he makes the All Star team, let’s say 4 years from now, we’ll know what position.
My guess? Probably OF if with Mets. If not with Mets than maybe at 1B with another team.
Excuse me but how many ALL STARS this year were better than 3rd place in the Batting title pray tell?
Murphy didn’t make the all star game because Emaus was on the ballot as our 2B and not Murphy!
Was Emaus REALLY our 2B?
If Murphy was on the ballot he might very well have been elected to the All Star game!
Because he was one of the best hitters in the league!
Metsie: To be fair. This response is not true. (And I’m a Murphy guy)
For starters, Murphy was 13th in the NL in batting average at the All-Star break.
Weeks, Phillips and Utley all received over 2 million fan votes. If you HONESTLY think Dan Murphy was going to get 2mil+ votes, then I wanna live in your bubble. (Remember, fans have to actually go to your stadium to vote for your players)
Secondly, Murphy not being on the ballot did not keep him off the All-Star Team.
The players get to vote for 16 players to make the team, which is a common mistake made by fans who think the Manager of the team picks every reserve. He does not.
Then the Manager gets to pick 9 players based on conversations with his staff and the Commissioner.
Rickie Weeks and Brandon Phillips made the team and you can bet if one of them couldn’t go, Utley would have made it.
If Murphy was meant to be an All-Star, Brad Emaus didn’t stand in his way. I realize it’s easy to point that finger, but it’s simply not true.
First off Murphy didn’t get regular playing time until Davis went down.
And he wasn’t even ON the ballot so the voting is moot.
Point is what he did, not about how many votes he would have gotten.
If both elected guys were hurt and the AS manager was picking the day Murphy went down you don’t think he would have been considered?
Thats what you have to ask yourself….Not what his chances are in a fan based election but compare them to what they have done on the field!
Metsie: Dan Murphy had over 300 at bats at the all-star break. Plenty to qualify in terms of “playing time”
He was on the ballot for players or managers to vote on. He wasn’t picked because Weeks and Phillips deserved it more and Utley would have gotten it after them. The players don’t ignore a player because he wasn’t on the fan voting ballot. How do you think guys like Vogelsong make the team?
If both elected guys were hurt I think Utley would have gotten in and then I think it would have been either Freddy Sanchez due to a homer SF pick or a toss up between Murphy or the young Darwin Barney. But Murph didn’t play enough 2B so I’m not really sure what the point is?
He COULD have been an all-star if the top 3 choices got hurt?
Yeah he got those at bats because everyone was hitting .300 and getting lotsof AB…But he really only started playing in May.
I would point out that Jeter made the All Star team too did he merit it on the field?
But instead of talking about the VOTE this year…
If he’s on the leaderboard for batting before the voting is done you don’t think he gets more votes?
You don’t take into account that he WAS NOT on any ballot and that the guys who play are based on the fans who vote not the players and managers?
He was 3rd in batting once and if he does it again he will make it to an All Star game!
he may never win a gold glove but if he keeps hitting like he did he will make an ASG appearance before he retires.
And make it once your still an All Star!
So where does that fit into the pass fail of drafting?
If you draft an All Star didn’t you do a good job?
“and we both get lucky from a health and development standpoint”
So a couple of kids that were signed yesterday could make the All Star game if we are lucky and the develop through all levels of the farm systm – if we’re lucky.
Yes when we’ve had solid teams over the last 3 years and we lost key players the last 3 years it’s the GM’s fault the last 2 years and it’s the same GMs fault this year
But now you have kids signed yesterday going to the All Star game “if we’re lucky”
Meanwhile they have to go through years and levels of development. As a matter of fact let’s now start with kids just starting High School, i mean why stop at 18?
Donal, you said before that it takes years to judge how good a draft was, which is 100% right. But in your post now, you already have it that we aren’t going to get any major league players from the 09 draft and only get one major leaguer out of the 2010 draft…So how can you judge those drafts this early?
Because you can monitor the progress of the players. At the very least, someone from 2009 should be getting attention in.
It’s still way too early, you even said it yourself, it takes YEARS before you can judge a draft.
It’s still way too early to judge the 2009 draft.
You mean in Baseball America when you say attention…
The attention of being 3rd in the Batting Title race like Murphy is irrelevant in your warped world!
Which is the greater accolade in REALITY?
Huh?
Oh I forget who I’m talking to Reality is a Fantasy in your bizzaro world!
Yes, one of our DHs was having a very good offensive season. Too bad we are a National League team.
And say what you will about my bizzaro world, at least making the playoffs is better than not making the playoffs here.
And to be perfectly honest, your silly little outburst here has nothing to do with what Vinny and I are talking about.
Ah so if he was a DH and not able to get on the field pray tell HOW did he become 3rd on the batting leaderboard?
Oh and you asked me two days ago for proof that you hate all our players…
Thank you for providing it as I knew you would!
We ALL know you don’t think much of the guy who was 3rd in the Batting title race…
Which says a lot more about your evaluation skills than his greatness!
“Ah so if he was a DH and not able to get on the field pray tell HOW did he become 3rd on the batting leaderboard?”
He got to start on a poorly constructed team with injuries.
“Oh and you asked me two days ago for proof that you hate all our players…
Thank you for providing it as I knew you would!”
There is a difference between hating a player and acknowledging he has no position.
“We ALL know you don’t think much of the guy who was 3rd in the Batting title race…
Which says a lot more about your evaluation skills than his greatness!”
That would mean so much more if you Brown Shirts didn’t attack me when I talk up Murphy.
Yeah so poorly built a RESERVE was in the running for the batting title!
You were absent when they taught logic in school weren’t you?
I don’t know how you can be a “poorly built team”, when your backup is 4th in the league in hitting.
“He did promise us he would build the farm.”
Yep too bad he sucks and only got us Murphy, Davis, Turner, Niese, Harvey, Holt, Mejia, Thole, and Duda….
I mean they are all the worst players in the MLB according to you!
Turner was blind luck. How else do you explain him sitting in Buffalo while Luis Hernandez and Castillo were providing easy outs in our batting order?
And I like how you think Harvey and Holt fit in there when you dismiss whenever anyone esle wants to bring up prospects. Hypocrite.
Murphy and Duda are DHs. And let’s not be stupid and consider Thole a top prospect. He could have been, but like Pelfrey, he got rushed and ruined. Same story with Mejia. They can salvaged, but its going to take time.
So that leaves us with Niese and Davis. In 7 years, Minaya has provided us with 2 starting players for a National League team. Golf clap.
“I mean they are all the worst players in the MLB according to you!”
Where did I say that? Or is this just more lying to support your hopeless position?
do you need anymore proof about you not liking every met than the comment you just made?? you s***** on everyone!!!!!
I just said Davis and Niese were true everyday players.
And there is a huge difference in liking a player and over hyping his actual abilities.
and keep in mind, you and the other Brown Shirts have attacked me for talking up Murphy.
STAY CONSISTENT! in your own words.
“STAY CONSISTENT! in your own words.”
Good advice you should try it sometime!
Davis and Niese?
I wonder who drafted them?
Could it be the guy you claim brought us no one of any worth?
Did I say no one of worth?
Stop lying. It makes you look pathetic.
No just trash each one individually…
I figure you need to because your mind isn’t capable of putting it all together into one all encompassing concept!
You just make claims and then try to change the subject or ignore the facts people show you that you can’t answer…
You will do this again in your next reply to this because I know you better than you know your favorite book!
You will do this again in your next reply to this because I know you better than you know your favorite book!”
moneyball?????
“Turner was blind luck”
And taking Howard in the 6th round wasn’t?
“And I like how you think Harvey and Holt fit in there when you dismiss whenever anyone esle wants to bring up prospects. Hypocrite.”
They are not prospects Donal, You have said so on many occassions!
OMAR BROUGHT NO PROSPECTS HERE!!!!!
Isn’t that what you have said time after time after time?
Funny how your opinion seems to change depending on which corner you have backed yourself into recently!
Didn’t the Mets go overslot on both Harvey and Peavey?
[...] High School (TX). The Mets signed their first 12 selections and 19 of their top 21 picks. Brandon Nimmo Signs For $2.1 Million | Mets Merized Online __________________ "Hell of a situation we got here. Two on, two out, your team down by [...]
Draft picks are based on the scouting reports and needs of your club. Luck comes in when the guy you want is still available when it is your turn. Then it is the nurturing of this raw talent through the minor league organization, of course the desire has to be there too and from what I read, it definitely is there with this kid. As a side note, sometimes great talents get away such as John Elway choosing football over baseball but in most of those cases they just use the threat of signing as a chip to get more money from the sport they want to play in. I think this kid will move up the organization fairly quickly and will be an asset to our team. Anxious to see him at Citi Field someday. He appears to be very mature for his age.
Should have drafted Josh Bell, just kidding. I am just very jealous the Pirates got Bell so late and managed to sign him! UGH… Anyway, I like Nimmo and I think he has the potential to be a five tool centerfielder.
But the future outfield is shaping up to be Duda in left, Nimmo in center and Kirk in right… The Finding Nimmo and Captain Kirk references will be endless… Especially in a rain delay.
what makes them really stupid is he doesn’t pronounce his name like that. He doesn’t stress the I.
corey vaughn will be the best OF the mets have had since strawberry, i have a strongh feeling about this kid.. keep drinking the nimmo kool aid
Duda in left? Kirk in right? Most importantly, no Cory Vaughn? Whaaa? Duda won’t play for the Mets in a few years. He’s an AL type of player. Wish they would’ve signed Mason Robbins. I’m disappointed on that front. I’m surprised no one is talking about Bradley Marquez signing. Talk about a sleeper. Although it says he’s a SS, I read he can also play the outfield. That’s a huge advantage for someone of his speed. As far as Nimmo goes, I’m glad he signed and I’m excited to see what he can bring to the table.
Ya, Marquez has great tools.
He was on a full ride to Texas Tech as a running back, but switched to wide receiver and the Mets picked up his tab so he can play for the Red Raiders half of the year and spend the spring and summer on the farm.