You said “Omar drafted who HAVE made it such as:
Turner”

That is what you said. I didn’t sign on as Metsie and say it did I?

Then you ignore that and say “Oh and you seem to think you got me on Turner…Pray tell does BA only list PROSPECTS who were drafted by the team that owns them? NO THEY DON’T do they? Guess who gets the fail YET AGAIN!” The Reds and Orioles?

Turner has been traded and then released to waivers and NOBODY wanted him.

Justin Turner is hitting .257 4HR 46RBI .682 OPS at age 26 and you’re wondering WHY Baseball America didn’t have him on their Top Prospect lists?

How is that changing the subject? Just because I prove you wrong and ignorant doesn’t mean I change the subject it just means I’m making your point within the subject look like you have no clue what you’re saying.

You said Ike, Thole, Pelf, Niese, Evans were never recognized by Baseball America. They were. I showed you.

You said Ike wasn’t a top 10, he was within the Mets. Baseball America put Ike’s name on paper before you probably had any clue who he was.

You said Omar drafted turner. He did not.

You say Turner should have been on BA’s Prospect list, I prove you’re speaking out of your bum.

What else Metsie? Your telling me Ike should eb a top 10 prospect in baseball prior to 2010. Why? Because he had a good 2010 season and finished 7th in Rookie of the Year voting? You understand a prospect list isn’t “who will be good this season” right?

You’re just a fool, if you’re so much better than Baseall America then I look forward to your Top 10 Mets prospect list for 2012 and your MLB Top 100 Prospect list. We’ll contrast and compare. You may wanna start getting some plane tickets booked right now, since you also don’t like stats.

I’m not replying to anything on this thread again. You’re a waste, and you continue to say things that have no factual merit yet you attack whenever you’re proven wrong.

I can’t wait to see your prospect lists though.

“Oh Please Jessup you didn’t prove me wromng you just did your usual and picked a different list that removed the rest of the MLB and because of that moved Davis up into the top 10 of a SUBSET of your original list!”

You claim Baseball America never said anything about guys like Ike Davis, Jon Niese, Josh Thole, Nick Evans, etc.

I prove to you they did, and NOW you want to say Ike Davis was never listed as a Top 10 prospect so that negates their publication? Have you lost your mind?

And when did I say I judge Omar on Baseball America’s Top 10 list in MILB? Are you just making stuff up right now?

what proof do you have that Ike Davis should have been a Top 10 prospect? You knock Heyward, but expect the same projection for Ike?

What are you trying to prove? That it is difficult to project baseball players when they are 18-22 years old? Nobody disagrees. You’re just trying to be smarter than the system and you are not.

Every where you turn you try and say “they didn’t do this” when I prove they did you try and spin it a different way. You can’t simply admit you are wrong because you think you’re superior to Baseball America?

Lets see your Prospect list. Since we’re gonna knock a publcation that’s been around since 1980 lets see your list? Give me the Top 100 prospects in major league baseball please.

A critic of them is just that, a critic.

Do you have a Top 10 prospect report that you publish in November? Why not? How about yu go on record every year and tell us who the Top 10 Mets prospects are in the winter and then we’ll compare your success rate to theirs.

Baseball America is a publication to give you insight into your teams farm system. Are you telling me they are the ONLY PEOPLE who thought Alex Escobar was a top prospect? Of course not.

You’re not understanding the concept and the more you dig at it, the more foolish you make yourself look.

“Ike Davis was never a top 10 prospect yet he was in the running to ROY last year.”

And then your PROVEN to be wrong by FACTS and you spin it to talk about Alex Escobar. You understand the METS pumped Escobar up right? Just like the METS pumped up the value on Lastings Milledge.

Yet you cannot admit you were WRONG. He was ranked #62 among ALL minor leaguers and #4 among ALL Mets minor leaguers PRIOR to you even knowing who the heck he was.

FACT.

Here’s another good one

“Omar drafted who HAVE made it such as:
Turner, Thole, Tejada, Murphy, Davis, Niese, Pelfrey, Gee Most of which have never been recognized by BA as a prospect but are currently playing for an MLB team”

A) Omar didn’t draft Turner. Fail.

B) Josh Thole: #8 organization 2010, “best hitter for average” Projected 2012 and 2013 catcher

C) Dan Murphy: Only recognition he got was projected 2012 starter. Which isn’t really a slap in the face.

D) Ike Davis: Organizational #4 overall, #62 in entire MILB. Fail.

E) Jon Niese: 2009 #3 in Mets organization, #77 overall. 2008 #8 organizational.

F) Mike Pelfrey: 2006: #36 MILB 2007 #20 in MILB

G) Dillon Gee: Best change and best control 2009. Best changeup 2010.

Yeah baseball America sure did ignore those guys huh?

Are you trying to make a fool of yourself? When you have a thought about something you have no clue on, do you look into it before you stomp your feet or do you just say it and hope nobody can take the 5 mintues to prove you wrong?

“Tejada, Evans, Thole, and Turner, guys you say are not worth a damn because they never made BA’s list are ALL hitting better than Heyward aren’t they?”

Tejada and Thole have been discussed at length on BaseballAmerica’s organization ranks. In fact prior to the 2009 season Nick Evans was ranked 9th in the Mets system. So another “wrongey” for you huh?

But anyway since you asked.

You understand that Jason Heyward is 22 years old right? And that his 2010 season are more productive offensively than any of those guys you list this year? I’m not sure why people like to point to Heyward, he’s having a bad year. He’s 22.

If you’re telling me you wouldn’t GLADLY trade Nick Evans+Justin Turner+Josh Thole for Jason Heyward, then you’re just being a homer.

Heyward is 3 years younger than Evans, 4 years younger than Turner, 2 years younger than Thole, and 1 year older than Tejada.

Neither Turner, Thole or Evans have SNIFFED a full season like Heyward had last year.

Sorry but you got CAUGHT trying to slip a ball under the shell!

SO from now on lets pick ONE SET of facts and not keep changing them like some magician doing card tricks!

And if you don’t I will be sure to point out to everyone your attempts at slight of hand and the duality of the points you make in a single conversation!

Subterfuge is not ging to work until they add an EDIT button to the posting so you can go back a make changes to keep all the lies you attempt straight!

Bottomline here is you got caught CHANGING LISTS!

And there is no way for you to hide that from the public!

I’ll make this quite UNAVOIDABLE so that even stupid people can see what is going on and can not avoid the point…

WAS IKE DAVIS TOP 10 on Baseball America’s TOP 10 list of ALL MLB TEAMS?

No?

Poof goes the PROOF!

You trash us using an MLB list and when the list is questioned you go and show us SOME OTHER list to say they ARE smart forgetting (because your DUMB) that by them listing him sort of makes your ORIGINAL POINT about having NO PROPSPECTS DEAD WRONG!

So no matter which way you want to take this attempt at bait and switch all your really accomplishing is proving you wrong on SOME POINT you attempted to make!

Either you are wrong about not having any prospects on BA’s list or you are WRONG about saying OH wait we DO have some!

Take your pick we will allow you that luxury!

Be sure to tell us all on WHICH point you prefer to be wrong about!

They are EXPERTS at judging talent according to you!
If they think a kid is GOOD then he MUST BE GOOD according to you…
And if they don’t think he is a PROSPECT he is a BAD Player according to you….

and Build is destroy, Up is down and sideways is straight ahead! According to YOU!

Pray tell does BA only list PROSPECTS who were drafted by the team that owns them?

NO THEY DON’T do they?

Guess who gets the fail YET AGAIN!

This is why you don’t get ANY respect from me because when you get cornered you do what Donal does, TRY and change the subject, TRY and change the Data being used when it is pointed out how bad the FIRST set of data you picked made your srgument WRONG and then ignoring that when your little game is exposed!

Sorry dude but you are a SHAM!
And everyone pretty much knows it!

Your proof says he was top 10 of METS not BASEBALL!

Which is the list you used to judge Omar!

Nice try dude but I’m not stupid I saw right through your attempt to tinker with the evidence and play switcheroo!

You proved nothing other than you will go to any lengths to prove a point that has been exposed for what it really is…the idle rantings of an idiot who thinks building the Minor leagues is what it is all about and baseball america is the standard bearer and ultimate judge of who is good and who isn’t!

“he said davis was not top 10, you pegged him to be #62.. does that even make sense?” —

It does if you understand Baseball America also projects 100 prospects in baseball. And if Ike is ranked #62 out of every minor league player, unless the Mets have the most amazing farm system ever, there’s a pretty good chance he’s in their Top 10.

“finish top 10 yet there were 61 players at that time “better” than him is what he’s saying.. i mena, you’re not that dumb are you??”

Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. But just to answer your question of how dumb I am

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2010/269121.html

Now lets see. Article published by Adam Rubin through Baseball America on November 5, 2009 okay so that means this was BEFORE Spring Training and BEFORE you probably even knew who Ike Davis was.

Top 10 Prospects
1. Jenrry Mejia, rhp
2. Wilmer Flores, ss
3. Fernando Martinez, of
4. Ike Davis, 1b
5. Brad Holt, WAIT WHAT!?! Who is that listed #4? Go back a second!

“4. Ike Davis, 1b”

Wow.

Wait there is more from this shifty Baseball America site!

“Best Tools”

“Best Power Hitter Ike Davis”

“PROJECTED 2013 LINEUP”
“First Base Ike Davis”

Man, Baseball America sure did miss the boat on Ike Davis huh?

Alex, you can apologize anytime you want. Metsie, I know you won’t, you’ll find some way to spin this but you said and I quote!

“Ike Davis was never a top 10 prospect yet he was in the running to ROY last year.”

Enjoy your crow Metsie. Make sure to save some for Alex.

Salute that Core.

i wasgoing to embark on a rant just about now, but i see you took care of everything i needed to say.. i mean, wow.. i got nothing else to say other than:

THE CORE SALUTES YOU!!!

jesseP, again, you mention our prospects as of last year and BA has brad holt ranked #5..
i like brad holt, but the way is looking, it seems BA screw the pooch.. doesn’t it?? yet minaya will be blame for brad holt, not BA. i think that sums up what metsie is saying.. alex 8a and alex escobar, paul wilson, miledge and many, many others have failed miserably, yet, BA NEVER gets blame for that.. the gm’s do. i am not saying to go and blame BA, but i don’t think we should take what their saying about a player to a 100% accountability, they are right about 15% of the player, and that 15% i am mentioning it out of kindness, that can be 4% at best.. wouldn’t you agree??

It makes out point almost PERFECTLY!!!!!

TOP PROSPECTS
OF THE DECADE
2000 Alex Escobar, of Out of baseball
2001 Alex Escobar, of Out of baseball

Yeah we need more guys like that!
ROFLMAO!

Secondly, you know what I find most amusing about your distinct hatred for “prospects”? It’s that this team that you want to build around right now, wouldn’t exist without the hype and development of 2 prospects named Wright & Reyes.

There was just as much hype if not more about those 2 ESPECIALLY if you take into account the lack of social media, than there is about ANY Mets prospects right now… how’d that work?

Tell me you NEVER got excited about the potential of those 2 kids coming to the big leagues. If you say you didn’t you either weren’t paying attention or you’re a liar.

Your idea that prospects shouldn’t be discussed until they get to the big leagues is old school enough to be “old man crazy.” That’s not a world ANYBODY lives in. GM’s tout their prospects, scouts tout prospects, media tout prospects, and so should fans.

When your team is about to possibly finish its 3rd straight under .500 season and you are choosing to ignore the minor leagues for any hope, then you must be one miserable fan.

Baseball America exists because its a publication that gives you and me insight into the potential future of their favorite team. The Mets are a deeper club than 25 players.

In your perfect world, you would have never heard of Wright & Reyes until they made an impact in the bigs.

By the way… “Ike Davis was never a top 10 prospect yet he was in the running to ROY last year.” — Metsie

2010: Ike Davis Ranked #62 in Baseball America’s Top 100. Fail.

Reyes was ranked 3rd in 2003. Wright was 24th in 2004.

Baseball America’s prospect list fails more than it succeeds but so do MLB GM’s. The catch is baseball GM’s don’t send a list to their fans of their top prospects.

You are the one who said the Mets have NO PROSPECTS and need to trade off everyone on the MLB squad to change that didn’t you?

YES YOU DID!!!!

SWALLOW THAT and get back to us to tell us how good your own bull tastes!

I notice that you all of a sudden changed the list to JUST mets not the entire MLB which is the list YOU USED to trash our MiL system!

You are just so bad at this you really should just give up Jessup!

Well then you must be clearing your cookies. And even if you did once you posted something you would get a new one and be locked out from voting. Thats how the internet works!

And I see you again trying to make this about me hating prospects. I don’t hate them of course just don’t think they are important to winning games in the MLB…at least UNTIL they actually make it to the MLB.

What you don’t get and WILL NEVER get because your all about Monday Morning GMing is what a PROSPECT really means.

Lets review…

Definition: PROSPECT – a probability or chance for future success.

Hmmm that would seem to apply to ALL kids in the Minors not just the ones BA decided to list!

Jason Heyward was one of the BA darlings and even won ROY last year,
He’s currently hitting .221!

Tejada, Evans, Thole, and Turner , guys you say are not worth a damn because they never made BA’s list are ALL hitting better than Heyward aren’t they?

SO what does that tell you about the PROSPECT label?

Fmart was prospect, Ahead of Davis, who is worth more to the team and in trade pray tell?
He was ahead of Niese too, Which one actually has an MLB career?

Lastings Milledge was ahead of Mike pelfrey in
2006 according to BA, WHich one has a Major League career?

In 2004 Kaz Matsui was ahead of Kazmir and Wright how many more All star games did Kaz go to compared to those two?

Paul Wilson was ranked the #2 Prospect in 1996. How many Cy Youngs did HE win?

a PROSPECT label is nothing more than a GUESS!
and BA seems to rate guys who have NEVER made it higher than guys who did!

So what does that say about your SOURCE and LITMUS TEST regarding GMs?

and finally you mention Wright and Reyes yet neglect to mention all the PROSPECT who Omar drafted who HAVE made it such as:
Turner, Thole, Tejada, Murphy, Davis, Niese, Pelfrey, Gee Most of which have never been recognized by BA as a prospect but are currently playing for an MLB team while the guys they DID list are still languising in the MiL system which is GOOD for us because if they were here and successful you would trade them off in the name of saving Wilpon Money and for more chances to see the mets listed on BA’s list which seems to be more important to YOU than winning ball games in the MLB!!

no you can’t.. or at least to my knowledge you can’t.. and i am sure metsie will not vote for himself 20+ times..
he said davis was not top 10, you pegged him to be #62.. does that even make sense? he was in the running for ROY, finish top 10 yet there were 61 players at that time “better” than him is what he’s saying.. i mena, you’re not that dumb are you??

Aparrently a lot of people seemed to like what I said there.

Have you ever gotten that much positive response on any of your posts?

There are a LOT of people that seem to be frustrated with the attempts made by some to get rid of EVERY PLAYER who is worth a damn….

Alex could have only voted once so I have to assume I struck a chord there wouldn’t you?

oh wait………….

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa

Then tell us all!!!

Do they help the MLB team win?
Do they make the MLB team Beter?

Do they do that by getting listed on Baseball America’s list?
Or does it REQUIRE they DO SOMETHING IN THE MLB before they contribute anyting at all?

You like having PROSPECTS and will trade MLB contributors to get them!
I Like having good MLB players INSTEAD!

Which is why on the Trade Wright thread 29 People agreed with me, not with you!