Mets 2011 Legacy: Less Than Zero?

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• Mex_17 August 24, 2011 at 11:09 am

  I think the franchise is headed in the right direction, and that’s all you can really ask.

  We’ve suffered in the past from throwing good money after bad. The way to build a successful franchise is to make a continuous run of good, smart moves. Not overpay the rest of MLB for the biggest free agent du jour.

  Hopefully Reyes will get his enormous $150M 7 year contract somewhere else, and we can continue to build the Mets back to respectability without resorting to those disastrous “big splash” contracts.
  • metsaddict77 August 24, 2011 at 11:14 am

    meanwhile we languish in last place for the next 5 years.can’t wait.
    • Brian August 24, 2011 at 11:34 am

      Last place is the right direction for the dingbat faction of the fanbase.
    • NJstuckinTX August 24, 2011 at 11:43 am

      I don’t understand. If you can’t wait, are you going to jump on a bandwagon of a team on the rise? This is not a 1 year fix it project. You can’t slap fresh paint on a rotten house and expect the house to get better. This is a foundation up rebuild, that could have Wright and Reyes as the Vets on the team, or it could see them traded/not signed in order to fix it properly for the long haul.

      I understand it sucks, but always fixing the team to have it finish in 3rd place consistently vs. 2-ish years of very bad to get subsequent years of very good and the chance to push for 1st place isn’t really even a debate. You suck it up for those years and fix it right.
  • Bayonne Mets Fan August 24, 2011 at 11:33 am

    when do the good smart moves start?

    i feel worse than 2009 because the Front Office assisted in this team’s quick demise. You know?

    Unlike 2009 where we all could not believe one injury after another in the context of trying to win. This year the Front Office had a hand in pushing this team off the cliff – feels lousy. They literally stuck their foot out and tripped an already limping team.

    Oh and what about all these injuries? Where are the guys who said Omar should have been better prepared when his players got injured? Shouldn’t Sandy have been better prepared and especially like Met Maniac said – shouldn’t he went out of his way to acquire better backups because he was signing players that had an injury history already?

    If you really think we’re going in the right direction with all this pitching coming up what makes you think they won’t get hurt too? And it could be worse because we have a front office that want to try and compete but within certain parameters – in other words with as little money as possible.

    And like I said before what happens when this team is on the precipice or on the border of contention again in the future? Is the front office gonna decide it’s not financially worth it to add to it and disassemble the team again?

    No more exciting runs it looks like. You Gotta Be Sure has now replaced You Gotta Believe.
  • t agee August 24, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    What the thinking fan takes from this season is that, as Ed Coleman put it the other day, is that you cannot continue to try “patch a bald tire.” “That’s what the Mets have been trying to do for a long time now.”

    He’s right. Over the last 13 years we’ve given away FOURTEEN 1st, 2nd and 3rd round draft choices (and failed to take back two more # 1′s when we traded Wagner) and what do we have to show for it? Three seasons with 90+ wins, one Division championship, one World Series appearance and 6 losing seasons.

    We’ve watched as our competitors in the NL East have over the last couple of years brought up all around sound position players with the potential to dominate for years to come like Heyward, Freeman, Stanton, Espinosa, Ramos, Brown and Mayberry. Starting pitchers like Hanson, Beachy, Minor, Teheran, Delgado, Worley, Zimmerman and relievers like Kimbrel, Storen, Venters and Vizcaino.

    We’ve learned that Duda might hit enough to risk him in RF, Tejada and Valdespin could form an effective platoon at 2B. Reyes is indespensable, Murphy is a terrific hitter and will probably always be a “hold your breath” defender, Turner can “hold the fort” at 3B or 2B if need be for a few years, Thole’s ceiling is capable platooned catcher and we are about 3 years away from having a real catcher through our system, Bay was yet another **** signing in an attempt to patch a hole on a bald tire, Pelfrey is never going to take that step, Pagan’s mind is elsewhere, Fundementals are still not being taught in the minors, Niese can be a real good part of the rotation and despite spending two 1st round picks, a supplemental, two 2nd rounders and three 3rd rounders the best relief pitcher we’ve developed is in Cleveland and the next best is Bobby Parnell.

    We’ve also learned that Familia, Harvey Gorski and Wheeler are doing great at their respective levels, Puello and Flores continue to show promise after struggling a bit in leagues in which their among the youngest and that Lagares gives us the chance to provide our own potential future All Star LFer since we signed Cleon Jones way back in 1966. We’ve also learned that prospects like Mejia, Kirk, Fern and Havens just emphasize the point that you need MORE prospects, rather than less prospects, not just to ensure that you get competent or better results out of your young players but also that you have the ability to trade the excess for an immediate need. We don’t even have enough well regarded prospects for ourselves let alone to ship out for an ace.

    We’ve also seen a net increase in talent entering our system this year both in terms of strike outs and athletic position players and that’s what our more successful competitors have been doing for a long time now.

    We’ve also learned that there is a segment of the fan base that would like to continue to patch the bald tire and limp along the breakdown lane more often than not as opposed to biting the bullet and picking up a new set plus a few spares even if that means having to take the train for a while.

    What we should be focusing on is the very way our two World Championship teams were built, through the farm, a couple of shrewd trades (some of them similar to the Beltran deal, (Darling, Fernandez and Hojo) Others that were opportunity like Hernandez, Clendennon then, a well fitting free agent or a 4 prospect for one superstar type deal.

    When we have the talent working it’s way up to the Majors players will want to come here again. Right now the talent that’s made available through trades or free agency all comes with question marks attached. Those players with options aren’t going to ride in a car with bald tires. They don’t have to, they have better options elsewhere.
    • OmarFan August 25, 2011 at 9:04 am

      Excuse me for saying this, but Ed Coleman is a rehabilitated media member. More importantly, he is a SHILL for the Mets more importantly. Where he defended the Bay signing 2 years ago, now he’s calling it patching a bald tire. Please already. I say it’s putting a plug on a flat instead of a patch. The “patch” would have been signing Holliday to play LF. The plug was the inferior Jason Bay. Blame Met ownership for putting salary restraints on Omar.

      The idea we need to shred the team down to bits is stupid. That plan never works. You have to spend money on top talent and bring up better players from the minors to replace the average guys. We have average or below average @ C, 2B, CF, LF. We have average or below average @ #2, #3, and #4 hitters in the batting order. I feel confident Ike can hold down #3 or #4 in the future. Not sure if he can right away. Where are our #3 and #4 hitters coming from? David Wright has proven he cannot handle either spot with great success.
• NJstuckinTX August 24, 2011 at 11:38 am

  We learned that Duda will be the starting RF next year.

  We learned that Murph is a hitting machine with no place to rest his head and call home.

  We learned that Reyes is fragile. Fra-Gee-Lay… must be Italian.

  We learned that after Krod, there really was a BP to speak of.

  We learned that we have many serviceable backups for 2B, but no clear cut everyday started. Go Go Gadget Havens? Maybe Havens with a shorted rib will equate to health?

  We learned that Pelf AKA the Big Poof is nothing more than average (and prob. set to make 6+ mil next year).

  We learned that with all the Neros that we’ve seen as Mets GMs have burned down the franchise and it’s going to take Sandy more than 1 day or 1 season to rebuild it to glory.

  Lastly, we learned that if there is a pop up in the infield and you hear Wright calling for it, get the hell out of the way!
  • The Coop August 24, 2011 at 11:43 am

    OK I giggled with Fra-Gee-Lay. Well played, sir.
  • Mr North Jersey August 24, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    “Fra-Gee-Lay… must be Italian.”

    LoL, who “double-dog dared you” to write that?

    
    • NJstuckinTX August 24, 2011 at 12:30 pm

      
  • NJstuckinTX August 24, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    Should have read “there really was NOT a BP to speak of.”
• jdon August 24, 2011 at 12:03 pm

  I am surprised you even asked that about Angel Pagan. Angel Pagan stinks, and every day he shows you why.
• JoeSmith August 24, 2011 at 12:05 pm

  “The Debbie Downers who said all along that the Mets were not even a .500 team, are gloating right now. But it didn’t happen until we traded the top slugger in our lineup and the best reliever in our bullpen – so put a lid on it.”

  No Mets fan ever takes solace when the team loses, well maybe the Sandy haters that want him to fail. Sorry to point out the obvious but they were barely over .500 when they were traded so lets not carried away.

  The best reliever that ONLY came in when we were winning, and the team isn’t doing that so what difference does it make?
• L.J. Phipps August 24, 2011 at 12:15 pm

  I have to agree with some of the posts here. While I really want a franchise that can consistently win for the next decade or so, I am rather short on patience. I mean really the last play-off appearance was 2006, the last World Series was 2000, and the last World Championship was 1986. I mean come on, that’s all we do is wait. I have been supporting the Mets basically since 68, when my father took me to a Mets game at 3 years old. Knew they won in 69, but other than knowing the team name, Mets, i really could not comprehend the meaning of winning a championship. 1973 they lost out playing probably the best team in baseball at the time Oakland. Then came the dismal years until Cashen & company came in 1983 and 3 years later the Mets win it all ( I was living in Germany at the time but got to see them win it on AFN and my mom sent me a championship hat). Then came some more lean years, till Bobby V. & the crew put it down only to lose the Skankees (I’ll never forgive you Timo Perez & Mike Bordick). Wasted Piazza, Ventura, & Fonzie! The came Wainwrights curveball in 2006. So as you can see I have been there through thick & thin. I deserve a better product and can someone please get us a medical staff and conditioning coach who know what the heck they are doing. Since 2007 there has been at least one Met who was a prime player, ending up on the DL. I’m sick of it. I like the team they have but could this season been a wee bit different had they had Santana, Ike, Wright, Reyes, Murphy, healthy all year long, and maybe not traded Beltran? Then again we probably don’t get Turner’s production, don’t get to see Duda playing full time, or the first half Dillon Gee. It’s just a mixed bag and I just wan to see results. Gentlemen ……. I am back on the ledge!
• MetFan Lou August 24, 2011 at 12:44 pm

  Do you folks really believe we are at the bottom? I don’t. When you see the first two innings of last night’s game and you see 2nd and 3rd with no out and the next three batters strike out looking-no folks we are not at the bottom and then do that the next inning too! No we are falling into the cellar behind the Fish and if you think this team will b e getting better next year-don’t go to the sports book windown in Vegas-you’ll be playing a sucker bet!
• MetFan Lou August 24, 2011 at 12:49 pm

  One final point – I honestly believe we are not capable of winning another game this season. Sounds preposterous, well look at the product we are putting on the field. Sure at the end of the season a team already in the playoffs could play the bench and even things out for us, but even then we would still not measure up. Look at the first tow games in the Philly series. I sure would like to be in the clubhouse with the Phillies before the game and them talking about fattening up their averages against “these chumps.!
• martin August 24, 2011 at 12:52 pm

  a few days ago this was the most exciting 500 season because they players play so hard and are led by a hardworking manager that instills fight into the team.
• Nester August 24, 2011 at 1:26 pm

  Jered Weaver must have ticked off plenty of execs in the players union with that deal. Dont expect Reyes to follow suit.
• Da Madd Genius August 24, 2011 at 1:37 pm

  Funny you asked “Debbie Downers” to put a lid on the Told u So’s. But We were the same people not worshipping at the altar of Sandy, and who didn’t at all like the look of a GM downplaying expectations from day 1. When it came time to either make a push or pull the plug on a winning year, Sandy was the first one out the box of any GM pulling the stopper on his clubs chances. We look exactly how I’d thought we look after that miserable offseason- a big market club thats a laughing stock with nothing resembling reasonable hope for 2012. Madoff is just a crutch and excuse, I’ve seen teams in worse finacial straights across pro sports put on a better show for their loyal fans.
• Donal August 24, 2011 at 1:58 pm

  We’ve learned that Dillon Gee is a serviceable starter who could be on most rotations.

  We’ve learned that no park can contain Lucas Duda

  We’ve learned that Terry Collins is great with young players

  We’ve learned that although Parnell has great stuff, he’s still a step away from being a great reliever (come on, just a little spin on the fastball. Please?)

  We’ve learned that some people get needlessly upset about people mentioned in a book they’ll never read, that was written almost a decade ago, about a situation that doesn’t really apply here.
• alex68 August 24, 2011 at 2:26 pm

  We’ve learned this team was dead after trading krod and beltran
  We’ve learned jose reyes is the best player on the franchiZe, but if demanding more than 14 million some idiot in this blog will call sandy and tell him not to sign him
  We’ve learned david wright is an ok player at best, not a superstar, star or leader
  We’ve learned angel pagan SUCKS, and overrated as hell
  We’ve learned the SP is not that good, or even ok to begin with
  We’ve learned the bullpen is the WORST in the league, thanks again sandy
  We’ve learned that the front office waved a white flag instead of handing out a little help, EVEN AFTER the krod and beltran trade, but rather chose not to
  We’ve learned that sandy alderson HAS HAD THE WORST OFFSEASON AS A GM OF THE NEW YORK METS in team history
  • JoeSmith August 24, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    We have learned that Alex68 has learned nothing

    We have learned that using the trade of KROD and Beltran and an excuse as why this team is in the crapper now perpetuates what little we have learned, should learn or will learn

    We have NOT learned by that Jose Reyes is the best player on the franchise, a little more then half of a year with MVP numbers does not a superstar make when the other half is spent on the DL

    We have learned that some fans have different standards for different people, Wright slumps and he’s called a bum, Reyes on the DL and we want to give him 20M

    We have learned that by repeating over and over and in caps that this was the worst off season in the NY Mets history proves that just because you own a keyboard does NOT mean you own a clue. It means you know nothing about NY Mets history, current events or pay attention to a damn thing.

    We have learned how many people don’t know a damn thing about Moneyball or sabremetrics yet continue to misuse it and overuse it in the wrong context.

    I think we always knew Angel Pagan sucked
    • jessep August 24, 2011 at 7:06 pm

      JoeSmith: I wish I had a cute little nickname for the group of people that think like me such as “the core” so that “we” could salute you.

      All I could come up with was “The level minded logical thinkers” salute you.

      Doesn’t have the same pizzazz though
• alex68 August 24, 2011 at 2:34 pm

  by the way, for that idiot who’s writing about reyes and rollins, i can mention about 15 players or more that made more money than pujols during his time with the cardinals.. yet this person is trying to value rollins and reyes, didn’t rollins give philly a hometown discount??
  • jessep August 24, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    Your point doesn’t even make sense. I think it’s adorable that you’re talking about me to nobody though
    • alex68 August 24, 2011 at 2:48 pm

      is funny how your garbage articles HAVE TO MAKE sense, yet everyone’s comments are nonsense if they don’t agree with you, i am surprised you didn’t call me uneducated..
      • jessep August 24, 2011 at 2:50 pm

        You’re talking about me to nobody on a blog not written by me alex. I don’t think I need to call you uneducated.
      • Steve from Norfolk August 24, 2011 at 5:05 pm

        OK, you’re uneducated. Feel better?
• martin August 24, 2011 at 2:47 pm

  a team with santana and with ike davis and with duda at RF, and with reyes (which i guess wont happen) would be pretty decent. not philly good, but wild card good.

  biggest offseason need beside reyes is a CF.
  • NJstuckinTX August 24, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    I’d actually put CF 3rd, with SP and BP ahead of that. But certainly agree, CF is a spot that needs some attention, ASAP.
• Russell Zanca August 24, 2011 at 2:48 pm

  Pitching is the biggest abject failure of 2011. Please think about this.

  It takes hitters out of the game, no matter how hard the position players fight.

  Hello late 1970s!
  • alex68 August 24, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    russell,

    you mean AFTER 1973 right?? lol, 2014 here we come is more likely, since it seems the alderson’s followers have given up on the next 3 years..
• smart August 24, 2011 at 8:33 pm

  I am going to give this a thumbs up because less than zero is one of my favorite movies.

  but to watch the mets is nothing like that movie, that movie is awesome!!!
• tlagee August 24, 2011 at 8:36 pm

  Joe – I don’t consider myself a ‘Debbie Downer’ by predicting in March on this blog that the Mets would struggle to get 73 – 75 wins. I am not gloating. I was disappointed in the ownership’s involvment in the Ponzie scam. I was angry that something that had nothing to do with the Mets as a club would dictate what direction this team would take. I’m stunned that this whole mess is happening to a baseball team in the number one market in the world.

  When I made the prediction, I took into account that Beltran and K-Rod would be gone before the end of the season. I also took into account that the Mets would not take on any more payroll to fix the bullpen or the starting rotation.

  Having said that – I really thought about a month ago that I would be proven wrong – that we would finish at .500 or above and I was delighted. Of course, predictably, the wheels came off.

  My problem now isn’t with this season but with next season. Financially, the team is arguably worse off because of the ownership mess then before. I read that we may be looking at a budget of 100 million next season meaning that all the bad contracts that are coming off the books will go into the ownership’s “Save the Wilpons” fund.

  Whether they sign Reyes or not, this team will not be a playoff team next year – and that’s depressing.

  It’s not “Wait Till Next Year” but more like “Wait”.