Cuddyer is very underrated I think. I’d take him if the price is right. He also can play 1b too.

Why not Jackson? I like him

-Edwin Jackson? No thanks. Buehrle is gonna be a Cardinal. He’s been VERY open about that for years.

-Coffey? Pass. Francisco? Maybe on a minor league deal.

Omar made many shrewd trades, he also made some bad ones as well. He was poor when it came to drafting, rarely going over the slot. He rushed and mishandled prospects, often hurting their development. He gave away 1st round picks for over-the-hill outfielders and relievers and dealt type A FA’s for peanuts. Moreover, he was disaster when it came to FA signings. We all know about Perez, Castillo, Alou, Bay. But even productive players like KRod, Santana, and Pedro have come close to performing up to their contracts. That’s not to mention all the gaffs the team made with handling player injuries and not even doing a physical in the Putz trade. Also, during Omar’s tenure the Mets had plenty of money to spend, which definitely isn’t the case now. You basically Sandy inherited a team with several bad contracts, payroll limitations, and a questionable minor league system. What could have the Mets bought with those assets? They don’t have to prospects nor the cash to trade for the Halladays or Lees of the world. If the Mets stuck with Omar’s plan then you’ll have to wait another decade before the Mets can contend.

If I asked you which you’d prefer, you’re telling me you’d take 1 out of 6? Really?

The draft is luck based on when you pick. Not who you pick. A minor league player has talent and its up to the development team to bring out the best in that player over the course of their time in the minors.

“And if thats really what you want to do then look at all the rookies we have playing right now!” — If these players are what the next 5-7 years have to offer then we’re screwed Metsie. If our hopes and dreams rest on the shoulders of Gee, Murphy, Turner, Thole, Beato then we’re just screwed. They are all nice players if in the right role… but to say they have arrived and these are our young players then that is just bad news.

“Because no matter what you feel about Omars plan it WAS the last plan to get you to a playoff! And if the guys he bought did not get injured (and I will note Davis, Mejia and all those other KIDs who are currently on the disabled list) we would have been in them for three years running!” — Actually if he had build organizational depth on the roster in 07, 08 they would have made the playoffs. Blaming the injuries to players like Alou etc is not an excuse. It was a predictable outcome. The Mets had no arms to come and save that pen, that was the issue.

Tell me what is wrong with re-building the way Atlanta did? What is your alternative? You see the free agent crop, what do you have to trade? what’s available?

What’s wrong with playing respectable baseball for a few years and focusing on bringing up talent gadually throughout that time?

You think a Braves fan with 14 straight playoff appearances had any lower expectations than a Mets fan with 2 playoff apperances in a decade?

Beachy (24, 2008), Hanson (24, 2005), Jurrjens (25, acquired from detroit for edgar renteria), Kimbrel (23, 2008), Venters (26, 2003) McCann (27), Freeman (21, 2007), Heyward (21, 2007).. .that is one heck of a core of young players on their big league roster.

And they still have Teheran (20, 2007), Minor (20, 2009), Delgado (21, 2006) all very highly touted pitching prospects.

So are you telling me Atlanta was just lucky with all of them? This is their young core that will ensure they are contenders for a playoff spot year after year after year.

And they did it without ever using the word moneyball. So don’t tell me the only way to succeed with a rebuilding plan is to not spend $ and to suck for a while. It’s not true.

During this short rebuilding effort, The Braves won an average of 80 games and then won 91 to make the playoffs and are on pace for 92.

In the last 4 years the Mets have won 81 games.

I wonder who’s plan worked and who’s didn’t?

Basically what I’m saying is, if there’s a clear plan and they stick to the plan then I’m behind it. As I was with Omar. He had a plan, it just failed. It happens. I don’t know whether this group will succeed but I have to hope they will don’t I? That’s why I don’t get their critics who hate every move they make. What is the alternative?

“You mention digging a hole…What Hole?” The hole that had this franchise “go for it” and come up with 1 playoff apperance and now no legitimate young players who can come up to contribute? Spare me on the Turner’s of the world. I don’t consider a 26 year old rookie who is a bench player on most teams anything to brag about. I’m talking about kids who are as touted as FMart was given a chance with a big league club because there’s a spot.

Building for the future is what every team does to get back in it. It’s what Philly, Atlanta, San Fran have done. They aren’t moneyball teams are they? Moneyball has nothing to do with building up your assets and not throwing them away for older players.

The Phillies can trade for guys like Halladay because they had prospects like Drabek who at the time was very highly rated. The Giants got past the Bonds years and built their team to fit their park with their pitching. The Braves have always kept a close eye on their farm (minus the Tex slip up)

In 2005, Atlanta ended one of the most impressive playoff streaks many of us have ever seen. Then they won 79-84-72-86 games before winning the wildcard last year and likely this year. They didn’t have to turn their team into an onfield disgrace.

They didn’t play a Moneyball style of management.

Have you even read moneyball? Honestly? You realize the point of moneyball was that the A’s big league club was winning games by signing players nobody wanted and spending within the budget given right? It’s not just about drafting players.

To say it didn’t work is pretty nieve in my view considering they made it to the playoffs 5 times from 2000-2006 and in order to get the Mets last 5 playoff appearances you have to go back to 1986.

Think about how bad that is? The Oakland Athletics spent an average of roughly $40million TOTAL on players and in a 7 year timeframe they made it to the playoffs as many times as the Mets have since 1986. So if it “didn’t work” for them, then what has worked for us?

I think they should let Reyes walk IF (and only if) he demands a contract that is not in their best interest. I’m sorry but if Reyes really does want Crawford money, then have fun playing in Washington or Seattle. I hope he chooses to work with the Mets on a fair deal.

My last statement is saying, I’m tired of being fooled. I’m tired of signing veterans past their prime thinking it makes the Mets a contender when they don’t have the tools to win. I don’t want 1-3 years of success and then a massive cleanup project afterwards. I want CONTINUED success.

What makes you think they are going to play RESPECTABLE baseball when you crap on all the players who we are going to have while you sit on your hands?

If we enact your plan all those guys you say are crap is whop is going to be playing!

And Tell me how is Atlantas plan faring vs the Phillies plan who went out and pretty much Bought and or traded for all that Pitching?

Did Phillie develop Victorino? Did they Develop all those guys not named Rollins Howard and Utley? Ok Hamels…

4 guys!

You mean to tell me that Wright Reyes Davis and Niese is not the same number of developments as Phillie has?

Atalanta went to a lot of WS…
How many have they won?
And how did they do it? With developed players? Or Greg Maddox?
What have they done since they lost that Pitching?
Pretty much nothing like Oakland did!

You can blame whatever you want for the lack of depth in the Miniors from 2005-2008. Truth is Omar got where you want to get within a year with a Minor League system that was BARREN!

And you would have waited 5 years to try to get where he got!
His plan didn’t fail you just didn’t give him a chance to see it through because you wanted to prove MONEYBALL is a good plan!
But if he had continued what he was doing and went and BOUGHT the Pitching this year with the Minors and players we have now, not only would we have the Minor League dpth you want to have but the playoff RACE you want to wait 5 years for!

Sure you can do and rebuild like At;lanta did…
Tooke them 10 years of basement dwelling to aquire enough youth to promote as a core.

Omar took a basement team and put it in the playoffs in a single year! And if the guy before him had left him some depth you would be calling Omar a genius right now…Someone might even write a book about him…

Because as much as you like what Oakland, Atlanta and the Phillies did (up until three years ago for them)
Omars plan was a lot closer to what the Yankees did who have dominated EVERY TEAM YOU THINK IS SMARTER and won and played in more world series than all of your GOOD PLAN teams combined!

And they didn’t do it by waiting around for their drafted lottery tickets to hit!
They played hard for EVERY SEASON while they did so!
And had all the BIG NAMES and WINS you would give up while you are waiting for the Bisons to Become Mets!

If you want to repeat what Atlanta and Philly did then come back in 10 years!
Cause thats how long it took BOTH Atlanta and the Phillies to make their limited runs at competitive baseball using your method! and between them they have 3 WS wins to their record.
Yankees have how many doing just the opposite?

Thanks for the reply

With regards to the young kids. I think I covered that in the article no?

Mike Nickeas is on this roster because there’s nobody within the organization who is worth bringing up right now. To me, I don’t see any farmhand coming up in 2012 to take a starting role on offense or in the rotation. I’ll gladly be wrong, but who do you think I’m missing?

I’m not sold on Havens at all. You know when you hear about Havens? When he’s hurt. To me, he’s not even on my radar until he proves he’s healthy.

The same can be said about FMart. I’m done buying into him. He was Minaya’s prized prospect for so long and he can’t stay on the field.

I actually don’t think I’m making the mistake that we have to buy anything really. If it was my team I’d be very careful with who and what I spend… I thought I made that clear that there really isn’t many free agents out there worth buying?

I also thought I made it clear that yes trading is an option but a) what is out there and b) what is their price? We’re already looking at a roster with very few “next year” prospects and most of our prized guys are down the road players. So do you deal them? I don’t think so.

“Does meaningless seasons for the next 3 years appeal to you more than the names on that list?”

Meaningless seasons are more acceptable to me than overspending/digging a hole and not winning. Put it to you like this. If Alderson says to me “our plan is to develop a team that within 3 years will be able to sustain success over a long period of time.” then I’m in.

Never advanced any further than Omar did!
If omar failed then so too did moneyball!

What your proposing is WAIT UNTIL something good happens and then start building!

It’s predicated on you being lucky in the draft and having enough rookies come up and playing well enough to need help before you go and start building a team!

Thats not a plan it’s wait and see!

And if thats really what you want to do then look at all the rookies we have playing right now!
They have ALREADY arrived! No they aren’t 21 but then again neither are the Yankees and Phillies guys…

What you are proposing is going to CREATE that hole and the money problems you say exist but don’t!

Cause no one shows up the next three years EVEN if all those lottery tickets pay off you won’t have the money to go get what is needed to get them to the playoffs and beyond.

You will be Oakland with no money to spend to get you where Omar got you!

Not saying we should be out there buying all the top FAs that come available. But you have to buy SOME players and sometimes those players will be expensive!

Because no matter what you feel about Omars plan it WAS the last plan to get you to a playoff! And if the guys he bought did not get injured (and I will note Davis, Mejia and all those other KIDs who are currently on the disabled list) we would have been in them for three years running!

So this YOUTH movement thinking Kids don’t get hurt is bogus! Look at the ratio and you see Kids get hurt just as much as vets. But Vets play hurt and Kids don’t!

If your PLAN is sitting on your hands well thats not a plan…it is a resignation and a waiting room for something to happen before you start running the team.

And I saw that plan in action before…
Torre was the Manager!

They truly sucked!

You mention digging a hole…What Hole? Wilpon isn’t broke! Picard went away!
There is no Salary cap to deal with? So what hole could we possibly make?

If we do what your suggesting then there really WILL be a hole dug.
Everyone we have that seems to be acceptable to have on a MLB roster will be playing to crickets, Install a losing attitude because we are not playing in the MLB for 3 or 4 years until some kid comes and replaces them…

I mean really if you want to take this franchise back to what it was in the late 70′s thats fine but all you doing is making us the next moneyball failure.

Moneyball didn’t work for Oakland and it most definitly won’t work here!

If you really feel that way then I guess you think we should let reyes go too because at least he gets you some kids that might play out in that plan 3 or 4 years from now.

Basically your last statement says it all…
Your not interested in seeing good baseball each year, your interested in testing a theory you have!

One that was tested in Oakland and failed miserably!

But I did notice you didn’t post the column B of kids you expect to use INSTEAD of them.
Which if listed and compared make all those names in column A sound a whole lot better!

Easy to say I don’t want these guys when you don’t list who you would prefer.

Or is it your intention to not get anyone and wait 3 or 4 years for your Youth/Build movement to play out?

As for SPs I agree we seem to have the next gen in the Minors already. Havens may take the 2B throne. FMart or Flores may eventually grab the OF slots we have but who knows they are any better than the list you posted?

And you make the mistake of thinking that we have to BUY the veteran leadership this team lacks. There are also trades that could be made. We sure have enough kids impressing people to make a deal. Who depends on Where in that case. Ike seemed like our regular 1st baseman. Is anyone counting on him next year? Will he continue to hit after missing half a season?

This is not a time where the Organization should be worrying about philosophy. Spend now Build for later etc etc…

There are roles missing from this team beyond the traditional 9 everyone talks about. Yes we need a 2B but we also need a mentor for the kids you are pinning your plan onto.

While I don’t expect Sandy to make any Big free Agent moves other than Reyes and maybe trying to bring back Beltran if the price is right. If he fails to bring in someone new with some credibility in the lockeroom then next season will be just like this season save the need to worry about K-Rods Extention or getting something for Beltran.

And unless we become buys NEXT year pretty much it will just be a repeat of this year save the Crawford/Reyes talk with no big slugger to trade at the deadline to get that one MAYBE pitching phenom to put towards your youth movement.

Like it or not unless Sandy Buys Big (for say best SP or best Slugging FA) he is going to be making smaller moves FROM that list you posted that you don’t like!

Cause what you fail to understand here is the FA list is what it is, And while it’s very nice and easy to say don’t buy, develop/build from within, but if there is nothing from within to build on you basically are standing pat until you HAVE developed something!

And that means giving up on this team for the next 3 or 4 years!
Until your plan is complete…

Does meaningless seasons for the next 3 years appeal to you more than the names on that list?