Johan Santana Flying To NY To Get Shoulder Examined

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• smart July 30, 2011 at 5:55 pm

  Ridiculous post. Santana >>>>>>>>>>Wang. Not comparable and just stating Wang outing causes concern for Santana…geez
• acoustic567 July 30, 2011 at 6:02 pm

  I understand that story lines can develop a life of their own once someone in the media announces them, but this seems to me kind of a waste of time. Now we’re assessing Santana’s progress by looking at the progress of a completely different player.

  It is true that they both had capsule injuries. But we already knew that shoulder injuries are much more troubling for pitchers than elbow injuries. Everyone knows,even if they never heard of Chien-Ming Wang, that Santana has suffered a very serious injury and that a complete return to form is doubtful if not improbable.

  In addition, I’d also point out that, for his first start in over two years, Wang was not that bad, especially after what was obviously a very nervous first inning for him. He threw some hard sinkers that had good movement and a few decent sliders.

  The more salient point seems to me that Santana’s rehab seems to have proceeded more efficiently than Wang’s. Santana stands a good chance of making his first MLB start only a year after being shut down. There’s no reason to assume that one pitcher’s recovery story tells us much if anything about the other’s.
• Nester July 30, 2011 at 6:13 pm

  Because of the few instances of this particular cupsular procedure in baseball, I believe it has been performed only three times, there’s no harm in camparing the two. The other one was Mark Prior who never came back from this surgery. But like all medical procedures, they get better as you go along. Prios never came back, Wang 2 years, Santana 1 year. Maybe Santana is the first real breakthrough in this type of surgery for pitchers.
• andrew July 31, 2011 at 1:33 am

  The idea that santana does not rely on skill to win is ridiculous. And I can honestly say that Wang has more gut and determination the Santana. You don’t think it takes guts to be the ace of the Yankees rotation? Many great players have fallen short when wearing the pinstripes. Wang was one of the more successful pitchers in recent yankee history. And you should really read his story if you think he dosn’t have determination.
• francis July 31, 2011 at 5:35 am

  wang sported a whip of 1.3 in his ‘great’ seasons with the yankees. johan’s during the same time (05-08) was about 1.02

  wang was never near santana prior to their surgeries, and really they are completely different types of pitchers.
  • METS62FAN August 3, 2011 at 9:26 am

    FRANCIS, HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHY U BELIEVE SANTANA’S STATS FROM ’05-’08 PERTINENT. THE AL/TWINS VERSION OF SANTANA NEVER MADE IT TO NY, SUPPOSEDLY HIS NUMBERS WERE TO ASTOUND EVERYONE IN EFFICIENCT PERFORMANCE LEVELS SINCE IN INTERLEAGUE PLAY HE’D NEVER BEEN TAGGED WITH A LOSS Vs A NATIONAL LEAGUE TEAM. BY THIS HIS PROPONENTS FORCASTED DOMINANCE; BUT THAT SANTANA, NEVER QUITE MADE IT TO FLUSHING WHETHER IT BE AGE, LOWERED CONCENTRATION OR INJURY/YR MOUNTUP,WE, IMO, GOT 1.5 PERFORMANCE LEVEL, NOT QUITE SUPERIOR #1 HEIGHTS AS YOUR ANNOTATING HIS 1.02 WHIP FROM ’05-’08 AS A TWIN, IT SOMEHOW GOT TRANSLATED INTO A 1.178 IN THE “LESS CHALLENGING”, NL. CERTAINLY JOHAN HAD HIS NYM SIGNATURE GAMES EVERY JOHAN FAN HIGHLIGHTS SUCH AS THE “TORN MINISCUS SEASON ENDER Vs FL. THE TRUTH IS JOHAN HAS NEVER WON MORE THAN 16 IN NY WITH A BALLOONED WHIP A FULL 16% HIGHER THAN IT WAS. THE EXCUSE MAKERS ATTEMPT TO BLAME IT ON ‘LOW RUN SUPPORT’; HOWEVER, THATS A JOURNEYMAN’S EXCUSE, NOT AN ‘ACE’S’ AS BY NATURE OF THE ROTATION MATCHUPS ACES MORE FREQUENTLY ALIGN AS OPPONENTS, THUS LOW RUN SCORING IS, BY DEFINITION, THE PLIGHT OF NEARLY EVERY ACE. IN TODAY’S (8/3) ELECTRONIC NY POST, KEVIN KIERNAN CITES A REPORT THAT PITCHERS RETURNING FROM SHOULDER SUTGERY CAN ANTICIPATE DROPPING 3 LEVELS IN EFFICIENCY.
    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/ace_only_choice_shut_it_down_LGezvFoW3QAaVrG8ywtXgN
    IN OTHER WORDS A RETURNING #1 RETURNS @ A #4 PRODUCTIVITY LEVEL, AS, IMO, SANTANA HAD ALREADY REGRESSED TO 1.5. UNFORTUNATELY THE TEAM IS MIRED UNDER PAYING AN ADDITIONAL 77.5M FOR THAT PROJECTED BARELY SERVICABLE BACKENDER.

    I PERSONALLY HAVE MY SERIOUS CONCERNS AS TO JOHAN’S SURVIVABILITY AT THAT REDUCED PRODUCTIVITY LEVEL, WHERE UNLIKE, OTHERS WHO MANAGED SUCH A DOWNGRADE LIKE EITHER HERNANDEZ BROS(LIVAN,ElDUQUE) & PEDRO; SANTANA IS NOT BLESSED WITH A PLETHORA OF OFFSPEED GYMNAASTIC PITCHES REYLYING IN THE PAST UPON HIS DEVASTATING CHANGE, A SERVICABLE CUTTER & SLIDER ALL RELYING HEAVILY UPON A MID-HIGH FASTBALL VELOCITY FOR THEIR EFFECTIVENESS. WITH HIGH 80s OR LOW 90s HEATER, OPPONENTS CAN PREPARE FOR THE OFFSPEED & ADJUST TO THAT LEVEL FASTBALL MUCH MORE COMFORTABLY.

    I SINCERLY QUESTION JOHAN’S ABILITY TO ACCEPT BEING HUMBLED SO ON SUCH A HUGE STAGE AS NYC.

    THIS SITUATION IS SUCH AS OUR BEST OPORTUNITY FOR MEANINGFUL CONTENTION IS UNLIKELY TO OCCUR BEFORE 2014 WHEN I ANTICIPATE SANTANA’S OPTION(25.5M) TO BE BOUGHT OUT(5.5M)
    AND FOR HIS “GOOD IDEA AT THE TIME” CONTRCT TO FADE FROM SIGNIFICANCE MUCH LIKE PEDRO BEFORE HIM. JUST IN TIME FOR HIS REPLACEMENT LH ATOP THE ROTATION, NIECE, TO BE THE VETERAN NEEDED TO LEAD THE CONTINGENT OF HARVEY,WHEELER,FAMILIA,GEE WITH THEIR NEW LIGHTSOUT CLOSER, MEJIA SWEEPING UP AFTER THE BEST PRIMARILY HOMEGROWN ROTATION IN 28 YRS(1986)
    NOT TO FURTHER KICK JOHAN WHEN OBVIOUSLY SO DOWNGRADED, IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT IN HIS BREIF NYM CAREER, JOURNEYMAN TRACHSEL THREW MORE NEAR NO-HITTERS(2,3 ONE HITTERS) THAN SANTANA AS A MET. NOW THERE’S A CASE OF EXTREMELY HIGH RUN SUPPORT WHICH MANAGED TO ACCOUNT FOR TRACHSEL’S COMPILATION OF 15Ws(1 LESS THAN SANTANA’S NYM CAREER HIGH) IN ’06 DESPITE A NOSEBLEED ERA OVER 5.00 6+R/G WILL GET U THAT; BUT RARELY DOES ANY ACE GET THAT LEVEL OF LUXURY SUPPORT DUE TO OPPONENT’S EFFICIENCY
• NYMetsfan July 31, 2011 at 8:23 am

  I’m be cautiously optimistic about Santanta because of Santana, never ever compare on to another.
• METS62FAN July 31, 2011 at 10:52 am

  Everyone here by now knows I have no dillusions regarding Santana’s Met career. To me, he has been the non-ACE, Great Emperor festooned in such lavish imaginary garments, as I’ve long opined, “THE EMPEROR IS STARKERS!”
  (FYI, as a NYM, Trachsel had more near No-N0s than Santana)

  Suprisingly, I was actually more buoyed by Wang’s performance esp once his obvious “butterflies” began flying in formation. he was very impressive in innings 2 & 3 then with pitchcount risen tired back to susceptibility level in 4. My greatest fear Re. Santana is his closest return compasrison is more Pedro tha Wang. Yerah, I know Johan’s &
  Pedro’s injuries were as comprable as Night & Day; I fear his contractual burden will force us to endure more non-responsive action to a wallowing off & on 4,5IP performance shadow of once EARLY GREATNESS, WE’VE NEBVER SEEN! A I see it, our best oportunity for contention comes when both Santana & Bay are counted along with past erstwhile acquisitions we never quite surrounded with enough to matter… PIAZZA,PEDRO, BELTRAN, DELGADO all, gave us their best; unfortunately that was never returned by ownership too meek & conservative to finish the task at hand grabbing the opoertunities presented. The Sterling Enterprise mission statement is whatever id the opposite of Carpe Diem. Ownership that too often left the job incomplete, satisfied with a veneer of excellent talent too susceptible to scratches(injuries) due to lack of quality depth for too many Seasons/drafts they saved by cutting irrigation of the farm to a mere trickle. I fear, while awaiting Santana’s #1 form to magically reappear, we’ll be doomed to starting openners with middlers just as with Pedro who was miscast,by then, as a 1A once a 1(Santana) was miraculously apropriated. So, my friends we are saddled with our own private Guffman, aka Santana, until 2013 hoping to traad water with the Young & Capuano type additions while more than $25M struggles to find itself, praying another injury doesn’t befall him while on the search. If u add Bay as one of “THE SEARCHERS” the ante is up to $41M out of proposed $120M to be spent. Supposing Reyes is retained @ apoprox $20M that’s more than half your annual payroll being spent with palpable production from only 1 payee(Reyes) No wonder Alderson’s planning to build his own topflight rotation from scratch rather than buy one he can’t possibly pay for. The great news is that come 2013 there will be a surplus of expendable payroll to accompany what should become on of the most cost efficient, dominant pitching staffs in ALL of MLB as both Santana & Bay’s onerous expenditures expire coinciding with a proper maturity scghedule for the likes of Harvery,Wheeler, Familia, Gorski & Mejia(my forcasted closer).
  My friends it’s certainly likely to get darker before it gets lighter; however that light we glimpse down the tunnel is the onrushing finacial freedom from Minaya’s drunken sailor binge spending & not an onrushing train.
• Alicia August 2, 2011 at 6:10 pm

  Our prayers are with you Johan, come back with some good news.
• Des August 2, 2011 at 6:26 pm

  This story is just about Johan the Warrior. His shoulder is still sore. Let’s hope it is a only temporary. Having said that, I and some other fans didn’t understand why the Mets were putting Johan in a competitive environment, albeit is was just an Class A Advanced game.

  Johan is first and foremost a competitor. He will give that ‘little extra’ to get a batter out. He said so after his thirty three pithces. Johan pitched well but why in the world did the Mets risk JOhan’s shoulder when a bullpen session, under more controlled circumstances, would give the club’s brass all the information about Johan’s progress it needed. It doesn’t make sense unless the Mets harbored hopes of having pitch at CitiField in late August or September. If they did, that particularly would not make sense since Johan’s value is in 2012, not this year.
  • METS62FAN August 3, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Des, I believe the impetus for an ’11 return is more Santana trhan club as , if I were him, I’d want ‘some answers berfore offseasion. Of course, he needs to test via competition not simulation as u can not simulate adrenelin rushes without drug introduction. What u never want to happen is fooling the player into believing he’s more advanced in his recovery than he actually is. I’m cautioned by the recollection of that starter a few yrs back, recovering from cancer bout, surviving a supposedly full rehab program & assignment, to only get into a MLB game situation where he reared back for that “extra” only to have his forearm bone snap broken upon finishing his delivery, not that Santana is in danger of that; but certainly banbying too much, reaching for that extra could potentially undo his career entirely unless brought into crisis game sitations in a contrilled, lower key ‘MUST’ situatons grasdually. I certainly don’t believe any sane baseball person could ever have imagined a miraculous , “like he was” recovery, let alone THIS YEAR
• Matt August 2, 2011 at 10:29 pm

  Give me a break. 33 pitches and shoulder soreness. I hope he comes back as the Johan we all know…but that outcome looks bleak.
• alex68 August 3, 2011 at 7:50 am

  with the way this team is playing (.500) there’s no way you bring him back, but this was nessesary for the 2012 plans, we might need another ace because it seems johan will not be johan, i know is only soreness (hoping it is) but the way the medical staff has been with this team this past few years you can’t help but feel pessimistic about it.. with that being said, we’ll see what happens, only time will tell