30
2011
Is Josh Thole The Answer At Catcher?
An article by 
Quick, name how many catchers the Mets have drafted and developed that played in 300 or more games for them in the last 49 years?
If you guessed ten, you were wrong. If you guessed five, you were still wrong. Believe it or not, the correct answer would be three; Duffy Dyer, Ron Hodges and Todd Hundley.
Duffy Dyer 326 – Drafted by the New York Mets in the 1st round (9th pick) of the 1966 amateur draft.
Ron Hodges 446 – Drafted by the New York Mets in the 2nd round of the 1972 amateur draft.
Todd Hundley 745 – Drafted by the New York Mets in the 2nd round of the 1987 amateur draft.
That’s a pretty shoddy record and one that I hope will improve with the new regime now firmly in place. Practically all of the Mets most productive catchers over the last five decades have come via trades including stars like Gary Carter and Mike Piazza, as well as solid everyday catchers like Jerry Grote, John Stearns and Paul LoDuca.
The sad part for now is that even today, there are still no solid catching prospects to speak of in the Mets minor league system. In fact, Josh Thole who has been learning the trade on the fly over the last three seasons, is as good as it gets for the Amazins.
Last June, I was very surprised that the new front office didn’t address this lack of catching depth with one of their top five picks on Draft Day. I was disappointed that the Mets completely ignored an important organizational need, and it wasn’t until the 16th round that they finally selected a catcher, Xorge Carrillo, who is now batting .218 this season for the Brooklyn Cyclones.
That brings me back to Josh Thole.
As much as I admire Thole as a player, he just doesn’t strike me as a longterm solution for the Mets at the catcher position. There’s just too many flaws to his game and I’m not referring solely to his lack of power at the plate, though that is a big concern for me as well. Currently, Thole sports a .348 slugging percentage which places him in the same neighborhood as Ruben Tejada now and Luis Castillo in 2010.
Sometimes teams will trade some offense in order to get solid defense at positions like shortstop and catcher, but that is certainly not the case with Thole. His skills as a backstop are about as bad as you can get and he ranks at or near the bottom in catchers zone rating (rank 29), range factor (rank 23), passed balls (leads MLB), and caught stealing rate (ranked last). His likability factor tends to have most fans completely ignore or overlook how poor a catcher he actually is.
As more and more teams latch onto his 21% caught stealing rate, they will exploit this to the detriment of the team as more singles and walks are converted into runners in scoring position, and in many cases runs. His 15 passed balls are more than double the next worst mark of seven in the National League.
Additionally, Thole’s game calling has come into question several times already this season by pitchers Mike Pelfrey, Jon Niese and R.A. Dickey, and even manager Terry Collins has questioned some of Thole’s pitch selections. To be fair, most of this took place in the first half and Thole has improved of late, but still rates between average to below average in this aspect of his game.
I see Thole as nothing more than a stop-gap catcher until something better ultimately comes along. But with the state of the farm and no help on the horizon, Thole and the Mets might be joined at the hip for 3-4 more years unless the team decides to trade for help or upgrade through free agency.
So to answer the question I posed in the title of this post, no, I don’t believe Josh Thole is the answer at catcher. But for now, he’s all the Mets have so just grin and bear it.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
Went to my first Mets game, a Mayors Trophy game at Shea, in '73. We beat the Yankees 8-4 and I was hooked. I marched in two Banner Day parades, and before the Grand Slam single, there was the "Hendu Can Do" grand slam - I was there. I've collected Mets memorabilia all my life and started Mets Merized Online to feed my addiction.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 26 | 17 | .605 | - |
| Nationals | 25 | 17 | .595 | 0.5 |
| Marlins | 23 | 19 | .548 | 2.5 |
| Mets | 22 | 20 | .524 | 3.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 22 | .488 | 5.0 |
Last updated: 05/22/2012
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Thole isnt the answer behind the plate. But with a lack of good catchers available from other teams, the Mets dont need to find a good replacement until the team is ready to contend again. He’s a good stopgap, but expecting anything other than mediocrity from him would be asking too much.
What? Francisco Pena is no longer the answer?
Thanks, Omar!
Agree. Thole is adequate for now.
Fix the pitching first, then worry about filling in the holes.
WHAT’S THE ENTIRE STORY ON BISON’S MANRIQUEZ & HIS .304 BA? @ 29 HE’S STILL TOO YOUNG @ C TO WARRANT “CRASH DAVIS” LABEL, NO?
Manriquez was playing in the Atlantic League last year. He’s hitting .304 in AAA in 46 at-bats. Small sample size.
He had a .692 OPS in Binghamton this year in 60 games…where he was often (at least) 5 or 6 years older than his competition.
He’d be lucky to have the career Raul Chavez had.
Well Joe I will point out that the types of things that make a good catcher are not usually what project well into a draft status.
The Draft is largely about collecting players with good tools but it is impossible to quantify the MAIN TOOL of a catcher…HIS BRAIN!
Being a catcher is much more about the head than the physical. And therefor a guy who would be a good catcher in most cases is not always going to project well in a draft thats all about Athletics.
It is far easier to draft a good hitter and if he is smart enough MAKE him a catcher than it is to actually find a good catcher who hits. Cause it’s very hard to say if he has the head for the MLB!
It’s actually better to MAKE one than to try and draft one.
Thole doesn’t strike me as a dope. In fact, I’ve seen a guy with what appear to be very good baseball instincts this past year despite occasional gaffes, passed balls, etc.
I am disappointed as I expected he would be a better hitter.
Very few catchers ever turn out to be good hitters.
No he doesn’t strike me as a dope…Just doesn’t strike me as a great hitter either.
He’s hitting .268, Not awful but hardly good. If he manages to hit closer to .300 he would lock up the job.
Right now Thole’s problems seem to be defensive more than offensive.
He did a pretty good job calling the game Capuano had.
Takes years for a Catcher to mature and grow, Have to catch and call a lot of Pitchers and if he can boot his average into the .280+ region then he will probably keep his job.
Gonna see a lot more of him with Paulino being hurt.
He certainly isn’t the answer but neither is Paulino.
I don’t think you need to get too hung up on the draft and develop angle.
If they trade some minor leaguers for an MiL catcher (say, stearns), that’s just as good. Even trading some kids for a solid to star guy seems like an excellent use of resources (though salary could be higher!).
There just are not many carters or Piazzas floating around so when you can get one for talent in the system, that is a good thing.
Of course you would love to develop your own Mauer, but very few teams do that!
If anything, in their history, the Mets more often than not have been well above average at catcher (keeping in mind some are more D than O based).
Add up the years of Carter, Piazza, Grote, Hundley (roid years), loduca (ditto) and even stearns, and that is a good chunk of the Mets history covered.
The worst part about Thole’s offense is that it gets worse every year. His batting average has gone down three straight years (.321, .278, .261) and his OPS too (.752, .723, .700).
The Mets always knew he projected poorly as a hitter and that’s why they switched him to catcher in the first place hoping that he could pick up the skills and be looked at as a defensive option. It was a bad idea and if we’re going to have the worst defensive catcher in the league, the least he should provide is some good offense. I actually dont understand why some Mets fan are so goo goo gaga over him. On any other NL team he’s at best a backup who gets 5 AB a week.
Thole has been a catcher since being scouted in high school.
Most of our better players were someone else’s.
Our best homegrown position players that played at least 3 years for us:
1B- Kranepool
2b- Hunt?
3b- Brooks
C- Hundley
Lf- Jones
Cf- Wilson / Mazzilli
RF- Strawberry
yes, and that answer would be ‘NO’
Here’s my all-time homegrown team.
1B- Kranepool
2b- Alfonzo
SS- Reyes
3b- Wright
C- Hundley
Lf- Jones
Cf- Wilson / Mazzilli
RF- Strawberry
I had forgotten about Alfonzo and did not put Wright in ?????.
Someone please find a better 1B than Kranepool.
My gosh man, please make this challenging. Have you never heard or seen the infamous “Marvelous Marv Throneberry” play first. Now he was a real gem. Why he is never mentioned as a possible Hall of Famer is a mystery to me. And besides he ran the bases with the best of ‘em, but with a minor flaw, he never touched any of the bases, must of been his eyesight. Marvelous Marv, a Met pioneer!
John “Hammer” Milner
Homegrown is tough.
Dave Magadan? Career .767 OPS vs. .693 for Kranepool or .757 for Milner.
Very slim pickings.
Tonight: Xorge Carrillo hit his 2nd HR of the year in the top of the 5th. The shot has put the Cyclones up on Lowell by a score of 1-0, heading into the 6th..
No.