22
2011
In The Mets Crossfire: The Jose Reyes Dilemma
An article by 
In a new feature that we will be doing from time time to time, myself and Joe D. will do a point/counterpoint on various Mets hot button issues. This week, we share our opposing views on whether the Mets should re-sign Jose Reyes or just cut the cord and move on from him already.
Delcos On Reyes – Lets Move On From Him Already
In an ideal world, Jose Reyes would stay healthy, be running free and sparking the Mets to the playoffs, as he did in 2006 – five long years ago and the only year in which the team made the playoffs with him.
However, it is not an ideal world and it might take another five years before the Mets see October again. By that time, Reyes would be at the tail end of the longest contract I’d be willing to give the All-Star, but fragile shortstop.
Reyes’ blistering first half took him off the trading block, and his second trip to the disabled list now makes him impossible to deal by the waiver deadline. He might still be disabled by the end of the month and the Mets will forced to settle for the compensatory pick because that’s all they’ll get when he signs elsewhere this winter.
The gamble at a boat load of prospects has passed.
With no chance to move him, the Mets are faced with the paralyzing choice of coming up with a long-term contract north of $100 million to keep Reyes or going the unpopular route and continuing their rebuilding program without him.
I’m inclined to choose the latter, because after all, it is not an ideal world, and the world that has been Reyes saw one playoff berth, several trips to the disabled list and leaving us with a feeling of wanting more than being satisfied with what we had.
Reyes makes his living with his legs and by the end of his contract his salary would become an albatross, much like it was with Carlos Beltran, Francisco Rodriguez and Jason Bay. He’s not running free now and there’s no guarantee about the future.
That Reyes is breaking down again, as he has the past two years, is not shocking. But, it would be a surprise is if Reyes were to stay healthy for the duration of his deal, whether it be four years, seven, or anything in between. That’s a long shot.
General manager Sandy Alderson should not be seduced by Reyes’ first half and realize numbers in a walk year must be scrutinized carefully. Reyes hasn’t played this well in three years.
Looking at the Mets and it isn’t hard to see next year could be the same as this if the team stays intact and Johan Santana returns. But, even then, there are holes in the rotation and bullpen, a health question in Ike Davis at first, David Wright trying to rebound at third, and questions in all three outfield positions.
Assuming Matt Harvey and Zach Wheeler are the real deals, we’re still roughly three years away. And, how healthy Reyes will be then is anybody’s guess.
Perhaps the Wilpon’s financial problems will be resolved by then. Maybe not. However, the $100 plus million it would take to keep the risky Reyes might be better spent on filling the myriad of holes on their roster.
And, with that kind of money, they should do better than the patchwork likes of Chris Young, Willie Harris and R.A. Dickey.
The Mets could move to rebuild with that money, or they could dig themselves into a deeper hole if Reyes doesn’t stay healthy. In his nine major league seasons, he’s only done it four times.
It’s time for the next chapter.
Joe D. On Reyes - Special Players Like Him Are Irreplaceable
While I clearly understand the rationale of those who are unwilling to see the Mets pony up the big bucks to keep Jose Reyes in Flushing, I on the other hand emphatically disagree with that strategy.
For all those who are constantly chirping on our comment threads about rebuilding the farm and building a winning team from within, why are many of those same folks the ones championing the exit of our one homegrown All Star, Jose Reyes?
Did I suddenly wake up this morning and find myself in Kansas City - Where home grown stars are traded or simply allowed to walk once they reach free agency? Is that what the Mets have been reduced to while playing there home games in the largest and richest sports market and the grandest stage in the world?
I don’t think any Bronx Bombers fans had this debate before Derek Jeter signed his first mega-deal in 2001 – a ten year $189 million dollar whopper of a deal. That was ten years ago, right after Jeter put up similar numbers in 2000 (.339 BA, 50 XBH, 22 SB) as Reyes has this season (.336 BA, 36 XBH, 34 SB).
Is the debate really about making the Mets better? Or is this really about money?
Yes, I agree that Jose Reyes is always an injury risk and there is no arguing that point, but does that mean we simply let a team like the Yankees, Phillies or Red Sox take the risk while we play it safe even at the risk of winding up with more egg on our face?
Did we nurture and develop Jose Reyes from a raw 16-year old, just so we can see him play the prime years of his career for one of our rivals?
Even if you were to convince me that letting Jose Reyes walk at the end of the season is a good idea, can somebody please tell me who replaces him at shortstop or at the top of the order? How do you replace a catalyst like Reyes? How do you replace the best shortstop and only All Star on the team?
Ruben Tejada at shortstop? Justin Turner? Angel Pagan leading off? Don’t make me laugh…
This front office already has a daunting task in trying to replace Carlos Beltran and Francisco Rodriguez this offseason on top of a dozen other concerns, and you want to add replacing Jose Reyes into that mix?
I’ve already see what this team looks like without Jose Reyes in the lineup, and excuse me for telling you they are dead in the water without him. It will take years and maybe decades before we ever develop another homegrown player like Jose Reyes.
Reyes is probably the best position player the Mets have ever developed in their almost 50 year history. Sure… Let’s just let him walk away… Great idea…
About the Author: John Delcos
I am an active member of the BBWAA and have covered Major League Baseball in several capacities for over 20 years, including ten in New York working the Mets' and Yankees' beat. I covered the Baltimore Orioles for eight years and the Cleveland Indians before that. I currently serve as an editor and senior staff writer for Mets Merized Online. Follow me on Twitter @jdelcos.
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I believe that a GM needs to be more dispassionate about where a guy game from. Certainly if it is a close call, it can be a deciding factor. As with maybe giving a little extra money assuming you make it back from the fans.
But when looking at FAs, including your own, a GM needs to look at expected performance in the future, not just at the past. So Reyes and the required contract really needs to be judged vs. all the other other uses for the $$ and roster spot.
I agree to a degree Any…
But here is the question that needs to be answered in the case of reyes…
Can you get AS MUCH in two roster spots as reyes gives you with one?
And if Reyes gives you X amount with the one roster spot does that not make it easier to get that much more someplace else?
It’s the old is a bird in the hand worth two n the bush?
For one signing and roster spot you get everything Reyes can give you. That leaves 7 other positions left that are far easier to improve since they are not filled by the BEST PLAYER at that position the way Reyes is…
But to think you lose what Reyes gives you in that singular roster spot not only do you have to make up what you lost but you need to use TWO roster spots just to break even. As I keep noting here, MONEY SPENT is not limited….There is no rule about how much you can spend, but the LIMITING fator to team building is the number of Roster spots you can have.
So the key to EFFICIENT team building is to get the MOST out of each roster spot not the most for your money and with Reyes giving you the most production available at the SS position it is far easier to IMPROVE the other 4 Roster Spots and become a champion.
if i am reyes, i look at this team situation, and kinda wait and see what they do, hold my ground until january, if i see rule 5 pick ups, cheap free agents signing again, i am bolting… he shouldn’t waist his talent here with the crap alderson signs to surround him..
spot on joe d.can u imagine tejada at ss, what as joke.they think they have attendance problems now, what is it gonna be like when we have no stars on this team,cause i sure as hell ain’t paying crazy money to watch a bunch of minor leugers play at chiti field.especially since we can only play small ball now,we have to keep the one player have who is actually equipped to play small ball.
My preference is to resign Reyes, but not at any cost – or I should say any amount of years.
So I guess I’m more in agreement with Joe here – but as others have pointed out, within limits.
Nice job guys.
A few problems I have with this Reyes situation.
For starters, a FAN is not deciding on whether to keep Reyes. If a FAN were the GM, Reyes would likely get a blank check. At some point we as fans need to realize (as sad as it may be) that operating a baseball team, is a business.
The first thing you need to do if you’re thinking like a GM is name the Top SS’s in baseball right now (excluding Reyes)
To avoid controversy in no order I’d say off the top of my head: Hanley, Tulo, Jeter (have to), Peralta, Asdrubal, Hardy, JRoll, Bartlett, Castro and Yunel Escobar would probably round out my Top 10 (if you excluded Reyes).
If you take those 10 SS’s AVERAGE salary, you’re paying roughly over $8mil. (I took out Castro’s league min salary to be fair)
So here’s my question if I am a GM, how much more money is Jose Reyes worth over say J.J. Hardy? Right off the bat your Mets fan instinct will say “so much more” but is he?
Why is he?
If you are being HONEST about Reyes’ fielding how would you rate it? Average to slightly above average? I mean he’s got a killer arm. KILLER arm. But is he REALLY that good with the glove?
Citi Field hurts and helps Reyes’ case. The problem is, where it helps him, teams don’t generally pay for. If he was showing more power, he’d get more $ because teams will always take pop over speed. Always.
We may want to sit and cover our eyes and act like the fact he’s a speedy guy at age 28 and has had 2 DL stints due to his legs is no big deal. But it is.
He’s a career .340 on base percentage leadoff hitter who’s biggest strength is his speed. Yet his stolen base #s have been down since 2008, and this year if he stayed healthy he would have possibly matched about 55 SB’s.
When Reyes comes to the plate is he REALLY a threat with his bat every plate appearance? No. You HAVE TO weigh 2011 as much as you weigh 2010, 2009. When you sign a player based on 98 games, you’re asking for trouble.
28 is considered the baseball peak age. It’s when a player is supposed to be at their best and begin their decline. So this new contract you MUST expect a decline in numbers.
The problem is, Reyes is more likely to duplicate 2010 as he gets older than 2011. Triples turn into doubles, doubles turn into singles as a player gets older who has no real HR pop.
Is he enjoyable to watch? Absolutely. Do I want to see him as a Met in 2012? Absolutely.
But it’s going to be totally up to Jose Reyes. If the Mets look at him and say 5 years, $14mil per year. I think that is INCREDIBLY fair, and still puts the risk on the Mets shoulders that he could be the 2010 version or worse play in 89 games like he’s averaged in his last 3 years.
If you’re telling me Jose Reyes walks into a negotiation and wants 7years, or $18mil a year, then I tell him good luck and thank you for your service.
You have to set a limit, you can’t just open up your checkbook and say whatever he wants he gets. Because the truth is, every player has a value and I don’t think Reyes’ is worth a 7 year or 100+ million deal.
And please do not mention Derek Jeter as an apples to apples comparison. Reyes will never be Derek Jeter. Jeter signed his new deal after 2000 after winning his FOURTH World Series ring in NY, Reyes has played in 98 games heading into his contract negotiation. It’s not even close to apples to apples.
So Joe, you say you want Reyes. I’m fine with that. But at what cost? What can Reyes and his agent say in the final meeting that makes you realize maybe he’s asking too much? Because if you go into the meeting saying he should get whatever he wants, you’re going to make a bad decision.
SPEAKING LIKE A TRUE BNRAVES FAN WHO WOULDN’T WANT REYES IN THE SAME DIVISION… I UNDERSTAND YOUR PREOCUPATION. with that being said, thank THE LORD JESUS you are not the mets GM, jj hardy?? really??? you wanna put reyes 2009 and 2010 as year factor, well, whjat about 2005-2008? is that a wash for you? also, since you wanna factor in other years, hardy had 17 home runs COMBINE between 2009-2010, and he was good for an avg of 110 games, 8 million for that? lmao!!! F*ING braves fan, why don’t you go the braves blog to really discuss this? also, hardy is a free agent, how do you not know he’s having a career year lokking to get pay!?? you sooooo smart how come you missed that out??
you know alex, if you actually READ what I said rather than jumping on your obsession train — maybe you’d realize it makes sense?
“you wanna put reyes 2009 and 2010 as year factor, well, whjat about 2005-2008? is that a wash for you?” — Yes actually. Because players who are turning 29 years old next season don’t get paid because of how they played when they were 25.
You see the human body without help from illegal drugs, wears down as it gets older. What he did in 2005 was fine. You don’t give a guy a big contract because of 6 years ago.
Here’s a FACT. Jimmy Rollins was 26 years old when he signed his 5 year/40mil contract. He won a gold glove, and an MVP at age 27. What has Reyes done through his 28th birthday?
People look at Jimmy Rollins as “old” right now and he’s 32! 32! Reyes is 28! If you ask me to take Reyes through age 28 or Rollins through age 28 I’m taking Rollins everyday. How can you not?
So Rollins was making $7.5 million through the life of his contract. But Reyes is worth more? Why? Tell me what does Jose Reyes do now that Jimmy Rollins couldn’t do through the 2007 season?
It’s a FACT. Just because Reyes is a Met doesn’t make him a better player than he’s been. He’s made watching the Mets an absolute joy when he’s on the field, but he isn’t better than Rollins was and if he is it’s a very debatable topic. So why should Jose get 10 or so million more?
I KNEW you’d focus on JJ Hardy, proving you don’t understand the value of players. Hardy has just as much Runs+RBI as Reyes does this year and he’s making $7mil. The POINT is, what MORE does Reyes give you than Hardy? Heck, I DOUBLED Hardy’s annual contract for Reyes to $14mil.
Tell me Alex, what is the breaking point for the Mets to not sign Reyes? If you’re the GM and Reyes asks for _____ you tell him good luck?
you know, i am not even gonna argue or debate with you? is amazing how you are such a pathetic little liar, you put on your profile “fav met: jose reyes” yet you don’t waste a second to bash him, you actually heard what jroll said about his contract situation? i am sure you haven’t, he’s not a brave, also, can you please tell how in the hell you mention hardy and reyes in the same sentence? you are .. i won’t even waste my time with you
So giving you rational baseball business speak is lying?
Tell me why Jose Reyes through age 28 is a better value than Jimmy Rollins was through age 28? Rollins was making $8mil.
Tell me the MAX you’d pay Reyes alex. 15mil? 20 mil? Anything he wants?
26: 158G, 196H, 38 Dubs, 11 Trips, 12 HR, 54 RBI, 115 R, .290 AVG, .338 OBP, .431 SLG, .770 OPS, Top 10 MVP
26: 36G, 41H, 7 Dubs, 2 Trips, 2 HR, 15 RBI, 18 R, .279 AVG, .355 OBP, .395 SLG, .750 OPS
27: 158G, 191H, 45 Dubs, 9 Trips, 25 HR, 83 RBI, 127 R, .277 AVG, .334 OBP, .478 SLG, .811 OPS
27: 133G, 159H, 29 Dubs, 10 Trips, 11 HR, 54 RBI, 83 R, .282 AVG, .321 OBP, .428 SLG, .749 OPS
28: 162G, 212H, 38 Dubs, 20 Trips, 30 HR, 94 RBI, 139 R, .296 AVG, .344 OBP, .531 SLG, .875 OPS, MVP, Gold Glove
28: 98G, 144H, 26 Dubs, 16 Trips, 5HR, 37 RBI, 80 R, .336 Avg, .377 OBP, .507 SLG, .884 OPS
You have to pay one of those guys $14 mil for ALL THREE years. Tell me you’re not taking Rollins’ 3 years over Reyes?
And then consider Rollins was making HALF of that during that time, now tell me why Reyes deserves ANYTHING MORE than $14mil a year.
the market has increased hasn’t it? if a scrub like hardy makes 8 million a year what you think reyes will make? you’re not that stupid to realize that are you?
look at crawford, werth, bay and holliday, how much are they making per year?? back then you had players making 1/2 less than what these 4 make, you can’t go by that, is idiotic!!!! 70 million 5 year to reyes as you pointed out is a SLAP in the face to the best position player in franchiZe history, also, look at the ballpark rollins play, do you realize that reyes prob would’ve hit 5 to 10 more home runs playing in philly?? yuou do remember his 3 home run game don’t you??
It doesn’t matter what park they play in. The park works in the Mets front office favor, so when you even mention the ballpark…you’re devaluing Reyes’ future.
You think the market has gotten BIGGER since Rollins signed his deal? Really? REALLY?
The top 10 Free Agents in 2010 signed for an average of $74mil for 4 years.
The top 10 free agents in 2007 signed for an average of 75mil/ for 5 yrs
The market hasn’t really changed all that much except for the 2009 season when the financial bubble burst and owners used it as a reason to not spend on players.
Because I know the focus will be on my JJ Hardy comment, let me make it more clear.
He makes $7mil a year. He’s driven in 59 runs, hit 23 HR, and scored 54 runs on his own. How much WORSE are the Mets if he was the starting SS than if Reyes was? I’m in 100% agreement that Reyes is better. But HOW MUCH better is the question?
What it comes down to in my view is 5 yrs/14mil a year (tack some sort of reasonable option with reasonable buyout if you need to) is the ballpark where this negotiation should be.
If it’s more, how much more? And if it’s more, when is it too much?
JJ is not a lead off hitter or play SS like Jose.
Sarge, are you implying a leadoff hitter is more valuable than a guy who drives in runs?
Please STOP focusing on Hardy. It was an example of the middle/average $ amount the top 10 SS’s are making. How much BETTER is Reyes than Hardy? I’m saying $14mil max. That’s double what Hardy makes.
I know that scoring runs is the issue for winning games but JJ, just briefly, had a couple of good year then sent to minors and has now regained his HR stroke in hitter friendly Camden Yards.
I also say that Jose’s fielding is worth more than JJ Hardy’s at SS plus his running and intangibles are all things that JJ does not have.
I see your point on $$ amounts varying but as shown with Soriano, etc it is what other teams think you are worth not necessarily what you are actually worth and who really determines that based on stats or needs?
When he went on DL he was #1 in WAR value, I don’t know where he is now but all I am saying is that he brings more to Mets than just a bat and speed but I also agree that his contract has to be reasonable for both parties.
I say 5 years at $90-100 million, maybe a 6th kicks in with say 300 games played in the 4th and 5th years.
I just hope that this is handled quietly, out of the press because I believe Jose wants to stay in NY but realizes this might be his last chance to get a long term contract.
Right but your examples are examples of contracts teams regret. Soriano is not a good contract for the Cubs. Using that as your baseline is not pro-Mets.
Saying Jose Reyes is worth $20mil a year is ridiculous. I’m sorry but the guy has averaged 89 games over the last THREE YEARS and just turned 28. $20mil for what? Ticket sales? Jersey Sales?
For $20mil I can find you an adequate SS and still have money to improve other facets of this ballclub for 5 years.
ARod, Wells, Sabathia, Tex, Mauer, Johan, Helton, Miggy, Halladay, Howard are the only players getting $20mil a year right now.
The one that doesn’t fit the most is Wells and his deal was a mistake. Jose Reyes is a fine player but he’s no ARod, Tex, Miggy, Howard…
“I don’t think any Bronx Bombers fans had this debate before Derek Jeter signed his first mega-deal in 2001 – a ten year $189 million dollar whopper of a deal”
Ya, but no one ever mistook Yankee fandom for MENSA.
“Is the debate really about making the Mets better? Or is this really about money?”
Not mutually exclusive.
Decision is simple. If Reyes takes a discount, sign him. If not, gotta show the discipline to let him walk.
Reyes’ value is tied to his legs. He has perennial leg problems lately. Age isn’t going to help this.
If he wants to take $11M-$12M for 4 or 5 years, go for it. If he wants $100M+, take the two picks.
Jose in 98 games still leads all SS in:
Runs
SB
AVG
3B
and 2nd in hit to Sterling Castro
All other SS, other JJ, have played more games than Jose plus what value do you put on a lead off hitter that affects a game while on base to the benefit of his team?
Other than Castro with Cubs, I could be wrong, most of the star SS have been on DL this year and Rollins just went on it again.
What Jose means to this franchise, city and fans can’t be measured in $$$$.
He brings a buzz to the stadium when he is on base and when he is running around the bases that few players, let alone SS bring to the game AND he is our home grown product.
We might win a WS or get to playoffs with him in the next few year or not as some here have stated but to just gut this team and then dump your exciting veteran SS because of $$ plays like the Marlins and Kansas City and Pirates.
He is one player that while your are turning around a franchise and roster that gives you consistency on the field and for fans who might accept, maybe not, the re-building process while enjoying a home grown talent or two, David belongs here also, that we can say we produced and will play almost 100% of his games with the team.
I accept the arguements about his injuries but I believe that going forward, starting with this year, Terry Collins and SA, and whomever replaces him if it comes to that, have realized, especially Terry that Jose is a 100% energy guy that plays that way all the time and doesn’t accept at times that he also has to rest to balance out his availability to be in lineup with keeping him healthy for the current year and coming years.
I think that Terry has a plan going forward concerning Jose to make sure he does rest his legs from time to time to make sure he is available for at least 150+ games a year.
Lastly as stated here, Mets have no one in system or in draft that you could even project as a lead off type hitter or play gold glove caliber SS with his arm.
We have Decker I think from Florida State who I saw play in ST playing CF and he has the speed to maybe become a lead off hitter but that is down the road.
Again Tejada is not ready to play 150+ games at SS, he might be better at 2B but he does not have the tools that Jose has, arm, range, instincts.
I agree with JoeD’s assessment and say sign Jose but to a reasonable contract that will not hurt down the road.
I say 5 years at $90-100 million, maybe a 6th kicks in with say 300 games played in the 4th and 5th years.
I just hope that this is handled quietly, out of the press because I believe Jose wants to stay in NY but realizes this might be his last chance to get a long term contract.
Sarge, you offer a guy a contract based on what you expect he WILL do. Not on what he HAS done. Reyes’ 2 DL stints this year carry more weight heading into a contract negotiation than any of those stats simply because of the type of player he is.
Further we agree on the years with a 6th as an option similar to the one Rollins signed. But $20mil a year? No thanks. If Reyes wants $20mil a year, let him go play in Washington DC where they sign bad contracts because they need ticket sales. The Mets shouldn’t fall into that trap.
Sorry Reyes is a 12-16mil MAX player. Anything more is throwing money away. You can find a SS for 2-3 years at a cheaper rate and use the $ you save on Reyes for other aspects of the team. It won’t be nostalgic for some of us, but Reyes at $20mil is not in anybody’s best interest except Jose and his Agent.
I would have a problem with $20 million a year but how do you determine what a player will do unless you look at his body of work when healthy?
Going by this premise then all #1 draft picks should be paid whatever they want and say what they will do or their agent says they will do
Sarge: Very simply put. If you have to look at a player at 28 years old and look back to when they were 25 to “when they were healthy” then I think you’ve seen all you need to see. Looking at Reyes and saying “But he was great in 2006″ is an excuse to sign him. 2006 Reyes isn’t walking through the turnstyles at Citi Field. He’s gone.
This is gonna be 2012 and you don’t build your roster based on the past.
Joe, you have to be kidding me with this. You know what I’m talking about.
If any of u guys were the gm, citifield would be boarded up with a big for sale sign. To quote Jerry Seinfeld, all the posters on this site (myself included)know a lot about nothing.I find it all rather etertaining in a perverse way.Keep up the stupidity (aka baseball knowledge).Can’t wait for the next topic to be debated ad nauseum by everyone!
We’ve won nothing with Reyes. We made the playoffs one year. If he walks, what is the worst thing that will happen? We’ll miss the playoffs next year? Seriously?
I don’t understand the upside of signing him. There is none. The upside is he would perform about the same as this year, when his play made no difference in getting us to the playoffs, and oh yeah, he would be commanding top dollar as opposed to his current bargain salary.
Sorry, makes no financial sense.
No more than a 2-yr deal for Reyes.
Everyone is focusing on 2011′s. 98 games, but despite great stats for Reyes,
His unreliable hamstring is killing this team’s chance to contend.
What makes people think he will be injury-free and just as good when he is 32 or 33?
Reyes is unlikely to be healthy enough to help lead the Mets to anything over the course of
A full season. It is bewildering that an astute fan like Joe D doesn’t see this.
Furthermore, what’s to show he will again hit .340 in 2012 or 2013. Career stats
Just make it seem like a fluke.
Reyes legs are on the decline. I don’t really think it’s debatable. Also wish
To he’ll it were otherwise.
Letting Jose Reyes go is sheer lunacy. That man MUST be signed. If the Mets have ANY chance of competing in the next 3 years, you’re going to need Jose Reyes. The nutty idea that 20 million of Jose’s money should go to starting pitching, position players is plain nuts. Three players making 6.5 million each will NOT fix the problem we will have.
If we have 7 holes, we are adding 3 more by letting Reyes go. 20 million is NOT fixing the issue.
Hole #1- Elite lead off man
Hole #2- Elite defensive SS
Hole #3- Leader
Yes, leader. Despite all the talk about Wright being the media’s choice as the face and “leader” of this franchise, perhaps we should look back @ 2006 when Carlos Delgado arrived on the scene. Amidst the talk of Pedro, Wright, Beltran, it was Carlos Delgado who said that the guy who gets everyone started and the guy everyone looks to for a spark was the Jose Reyes.
Sometimes the media creates leaders because they’re the person whom they get along with for whatever reasons. Jose Reyes will be this team’s leader and true driving force as long as he slides on that uniform.
He’s the guy the fans gravitate towards. He’s the guy who makes the crowd cheer.
Wright may be the media darling, but between the lines (where it counts) it’s all about Jose Reyes. Wright has never been the leader of this group.
The media serves to poison fans, but reality can never be lied to. When Wright was out, the Mets flowed without an issue. With Jose Reyes out, we’re down the toilet.
But never forget the media controls your thoughts……
Hole #1 – when he’s healthy, yes. But for how much longer?
Hole #2 – hasn’t been in years
Hole #3 – hasn’t been in……ever
We are talking about Jose Reyes. Maybe you were confused.
Here’s where fans don’t get it. WHO IS REPLACING HIM? Since none of us have crystal balls, we can’t predict the future. Reyes is now Fernando Martinez? What type of strategy is this?
For you to deny he isn’t one of the best leadoff men in baseball and isn’t one of the best defensive SS in baseball just proves you have a problem with Reyes.
And despite your arrogance, Reyes has been the leader of this crew for YEARS. Randolph wanted Reyes to be like Jeter. He came over here with his Yankee pinstriped sunglasses and tried to reduce who Reyes is. Dumb move. That move got him canned when the rest of the team, lead by Carlos Delgado, shut him out. And Randolph did it to himself. It’s the #1 reason no one wants to hire Willie to manage their team. It’s why he was passed over at least a half dozen times when he was a bench coach for the Yankees.
The media that covers the Mets wants Wright to be the “Face of the Franchise” and that’s what the Met front office sells people like you. What goes on between the lines and what goes on in the clubhouse speaks volumes. When teams direct their rage towards Jose Reyes, it’s because he’s the man that makes things happen. He’s the guy who leads. Teams attack that leader. That’s how sports work.
The media BEGRUDGINGLY admitted Jose Reyes is “one of the leaders” of this team after years of trying to force feed a guy like Wright, who doesn’t have that type of personality.
As I pointed out to you before, when Wright was out, the Mets didn’t suffer. With Reyes out, the Mets are in the TOILET.
Get ready to flush that toilet next year if we don’t resign Reyes.
You need to stop worrying about what the media wants and start paying attention to the things that count. First thing you need to worry about is the fact that you said teams passed over Willie a lot as bench coach for the Yanks because he tried to reduce Reyes as the manager of the Mets. Think before you type. I’ll give you a do-over.
Secondly, I didn’t deny he was one of the best leadoff men when he plays. I specifically agreed with the caveat that he is when he’s healthy. He’s not the best of anything right now, is he? And it’s not an isolated incident. He’s just not a healthy player.
And I did say he’s not an elite SS because he’s not. Do you watch the games? Don’t let his elite throwing arm fool you. He’s pretty good at best fielding. He was an elite player 3-5 years ago. He’s just not an elite player anymore.
You’re right about one thing, though. I do have a problem with Reyes. It’s called frustration. It’s the same problem I had with Moises Alou and the same problem I’ll probably have with Reese Havens. So much talent wasted on injury-prone players that can’t stay on the field. Reyes is injury prone, don’t pretend he’s not. Not counting 2003 when he was a mid-season callup, this is his eighth ML season and he’s played in more than 135 games only four times, the last time was three years ago. Seven full seasons times 162 games, plus the 127 games so far this season adds up to 1,261 team games for the Mets since the start of the 2004 seasons. Reyes has played in 953 of them. That’s almost two full seasons of missed games. The last three seasons? He’s missed almost half of the team’s games. That’s not a leader. A leader’s on the field more than 75% of the time.
You really need to stop reading about baseball and start watching baseball. The media can feed whoever they want, and gullible people like you swallow it up. You think people who watch baseball don’t realize what each individual player means to the team? If Nick Evans gets a magazine cover and starts his own foundation, are you gonna blow a gasket over what the media says about him? Wright’s there to bring in the casual fan because he’s handsome, well spoken and doesn’t get into trouble. And because he’s a really good player, and I know you know that. But don’t think for one second his value to the team is dependent on how many t-shirts his face is on, and the same goes for anyone who’s face is NOT on a t-shirt. Their value is understood by the people who know the game, and you seem to have more of an issue with the t-shirts then with the talent. Get over Wright. He is what he is.
The first area for you to overcome is to understand what Reyes means to this team. He’s a really good player with health issues. He plays a position that a plethora of teams have won with half of his talent, the Mets being one of them. Ordonez was a far better defensive player than Reyes who couldn’t his his weight and the Mets won with him. The Mets will get better defense from SS paying Ruben Tejada for the next five years than they will Reyes,and Tejada will hit better than Ordonez. And where or where will the Mets recover the .291,13,66 Reyes has averaged over his career? Those numbers aren’t hard to come by. Having the offense and defense all in one package is real nice, but not for nine figures until he’s 34 when he can’t even stay on the field at 28.
Just because Reyes came up with the Mets doesn’t mean he’s Superman. He can’t play SS, 2B, LF, CF,catch and pitch all at the same time. You yourself named all the holes the team has, and you want to sign yet another bad, expensive contract that prohibits filling those holes. Terrific.
I’m trying to understand how or why OmarFan you think Reyes is an elite fielding SS? Elite arm, check. Glove and Baseball Brain in the field? Not so check. He’s slightly above average.
What are you basing his elite defensive skill on? Are you looking at what other SS’s are doing or are you just looking at the times he makes good plays?
So, you’re an agent, a Psychologist and now you read minds. How would you know Jose is not baseball smart? When does Reyes throw to the wrong base? When does Reyes fail to position himself for cutoff throws?
You have to love these e-scouts who think because they watch a game of baseball they know what they’re talking about..SMH
I want to hear these fundamental mistakes he makes. When you spot one, try to talk about them. I want to see why you think Jose Reyes isn’t intelligent enough for your standards..LOL
First of all, you need to slow your roll in regard to Willie and Reyes. I didn’t say he wasn’t hired as a bench coach because tried to minimize Jose Reyes while he was Met manager. His ATTITUDE towards Reyes is why he wasn’t hired when he was bench coach of the Yankees. He FLUNKED out in various chances before Omar plucked him out of the trash bin. What he did to Reyes is the reason. The man is STUPID and other teams saw that. We found out the hard way. You don’t attack team leaders publicly, no matter what you think is right or wrong. When interviewing for managerial positions, Randolph was deemed too emotional and would fly off the handle in the face of adversity. That’s why he never was a manager before Omar. The Jose Reyes incident is the reason. I will give YOU a do-over for being such a smart ass and thinking you’re smarter than you are. YOU think before YOU talk back, sir.
As for his defense, range and arm, he is worth the money and then some. Your opinion is worthless, my man…Unless you’re a scout and you’re not.
As for Wright, I don’t see why you’re defending him. This is not the topic at hand. I said Wright is a media tool and a marketing gimmick. He’s a good player, but nowhere near the player the Mets/MLB make him out to be. Nobody here is tricked by Wright. He’s not a superstar and he should be expendable if the team is thinking about getting rid of high priced players who are average defensively. Now THERE is a guy who has a weak defensive game. If you’re critical of Jose Reyes, I would LOVE to hear your analysis of Wright..LOL
Reyes signing doesn’t prohibit anything. That’s another FALSEHOOD perpetrated by those who want to defend Alderson when the team starts cutting payroll. The money required to fill in the role Reyes fills won’t be worth it. Love my man Tejada but he isn’t replacing Reyes neither on the field nor at the plate. We are WEAKENED greatly by his offense at the top of the order. We then need to spend the money to replace the leadoff spot. And the numbers Reyes produces CANNOT be replaced by many LEADOFF hitters. That’s another FALSEHOOD.
According to Reyes’ numbers, he is the closest thing we have to Superman. And when he leaves, which I hope is when he’s closer to 40, you are going to REGRET it. The lack of appreciation dumber Met fans show is startling. Very depressing, actually.
Seriously, I’m still LoLing at your rose colored glasses. Reyes is like Justin Bieber to you. And then you blame the media because Reyes’s face isn’t on the magazines, like that stuff matters to anyone.
See OmarFan this is the problem with all of us lately. I don’t min your passion and your appreciation for Reyes, but that alone doesn’t mean he is what you say he is.
“If the Mets have ANY chance of competing in the next 3 years, you’re going to need Jose Reyes.” – Tell me why? I’m not saying you’re wrong but if I asked you rght now for the next 3 years what holes do the Mets need to plug? C, 2B, RF (maybe), CF, 3 SP spots, 4 bullpen spots. Agreed? I mean if we’re speaking realistically those are the problem spots within the next 3 years for sure. What does having Reyes at SS do?
Lets just say you wanted the Mets to go shopping in the off-season (which they won’t) how much WORSE would they be if they signed a player like Alex Gonzalez to play SS on a short term 2-3 year deal? (Don’t focus on the exact player, focus on the idea of getting a cheaper SS so you can spend more elsewhere) Reyes at $20mil doesn’t solve the pitching, bullpen, and other position problems does it?
“Three players making 6.5 million each will NOT fix the problem we will have.” – I bet I could find 3 players making 6.5mil or less each that would make the 2011 Mets better.
“we are adding 3 more by letting Reyes go.” — How? He’s 1 player who has sat on the bench 46% of the time in the last THREE YEARS
Hole #1- Elite lead off man — Not really sure this matters. Not worth fighting over either.
Hole #2- Elite defensive SS — Um. No he’s not? This is a Mets colored glasses answer. Jose Reyes is not an elite defensive SS.
Hole #3- Leader — He just so happens to be a leader when he plays well. How’s he done in the past? Your example of Reyes/Delgado in 06 is comical because it’s basically why everybody in baseball hated the Mets. He wasn’t a leader, leaders lead by example.
I don’t disagree about Wright being a leader. Frankly I think if there are ANY questions about who the leader is, then you have no leader.
At the end of the day, if you are willing to pay a guy $20mil a year when he has sat out 46% of the games played in the last 3 games you’re making a foolish mistake.
I don’t know how old you are Jessep, but the leaders of the Mets in 1986 were Keith and Carter. Everyone HATED their guts. They were demonstrative, talky, arrogant and fiesty. They SHOWED up other teams with their exuberance. Don’t give me that sh*t that Reyes’ attitude and flamboyance was a detriment to the 2006 Mets. That’s more media rhetoric designed to twist around facts.
If you think we’re going to get three players who make 6 million per and they’re going to fill “holes” that will include the ONES left behind by Jose Reyes, you’re 100% dreaming, my man.
You have to replace one of the best lead off men in baseball.
You will have to replace one of the best defensive SS in baseball.
On top of that, we have 3 pen spots that need to be filled.
On top of that, we need a legit LF.
On top of that, we need a CF.
On top of that, we need a top of the rotation pitcher.
On top of that, we need a big league catcher
On top of that, we need better hitters in the middle of the order.
Someone explain to me how this team will improve by letting Reyes walk? I haven’t heard of anything more insane. You PAY him and KEEP him right @ SS. You think 20 million spread out to three AVERAGE players is going to make a difference?
What kind of Met fans are you people? Geez
Here’s the recipe that will work if the Mets are cutting back payroll (rolling my eyes):
Fill in the empty slots with minor league prospects. Try your luck with Duda, Valdespin, Nieuwenhuis, Del La Torre, Harvey, Martinez and keep your LEADER on the field. This team is going NOWHERE for years if you allow Reyes to walk. There is no talent comparable in the minors. There’s no talent comparable coming in via the free agent market (which we wont be a part of). Saving money by not resigning Reyes DOES NOT IMPROVE THE TEAM IN THE FUTURE. That’s BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSHEEEEET, my friend.
If you believe that saving money with Reyes is giving us a chance in 2015, it’s a falsehood. If you don’t replace talent with equal talent, you’re dead in the water.
One would think a lesson has been learned with the loss of Delgado and Beltran.
One would think a lesson is being taught to you with Reyes being out.
If you think things are bad NOW, wait until Reyes leaves. Remember 2009? No Beltran, no Reyes, no Delgado. You’re staring at that next year, except we will have Ike around. And that fate will continue until those talents are replaced. Angel Pagan, Jason Bay and whomever you decide should replace Reyes WILL NOT SUFFICE!
omar, as usual:
THE CORE SALUTES YOU!!!
OmarFan: Are you REALLY comparing Jose Reyes as a leader to Keith Hernandez? My that is a big stretch huh? Jose Reyes was a leader this season because the team consisted of AAA players and a RF on his way out the door. Reyes was not a leader in the past, and he’s only been a leader because he had an exciting 98 games. A leader is a leader when he plays poorly too. When Reyes slumps, he pouts. You know it, I know it.
What world do you live in where Jose Reyes is some amazing defensive SS? Do you even watch other SS’s? He’s an elite fielding SS within the Mets, I agree. But in MLB he is not. He has one of the best arms at SS, totally agree. But his fielding ability is not elite, nor is it one of the best in baseball at his position. Cabrera, Gonzalez, A. Ramirez, probably Betancourt, Tulo are better in the field at SS than Reyes off the top of my head.
So your argument to me is that Jose Reyes is as valuable of a player as ARod, Texiera, Mauer, Miggy, and Ryan Howard? You wanna talk about lunacy. Jose Reyes for $20mil is a joke. An absolute joke. You want to pay a guy $20mil when he has been on the field 267 times in 3 years? $20mil for what? For half a season?
The point you are failing to grasp is if you take that $ and get 3-4 players who give you a FULL season, it’s more valuable than half a season from Reyes.
LMAO @ these SS better than Reyes with the glove. Cabrera? Gonzalez? What? Tulo? OMG. I’m going to leave that alone. The ONLY thing those guys do better than Reyes is go into the outfield where Reyes has his ONLY weakness on the field. That’s just ridiculous. Anyone who pats you on the back in regard to those assessments, needs a trip to the optometrist.
LMAO @ you playing psychologist. When did you get your degree in Psychology, Jessep? You’re breaking Reyes down via his disappointment when he doesn’t hit? Give me a break. Reyes isn’t a robot. He’s an emotional player. That’s to be enjoyed and not nitpicked when he doesn’t hit. Quit looking for reasons to cap on Jose. The bottom line is he’s the straw that stirs this drink and is IRREPLACEABLE. LMAO @ 3-4 AVERAGE non-stars replacing a LEGIT star. You can’t make it up. That’s the dumbest logic I’ve ever heard of.
Here’s a newsflash, Jessep. Jose Reyes has been the leader on this squad since 2005. In 2006, he was the guy that the VETERANS (Pedro, Beltran, Valentin, Delgado) all took the lead from. The only guy who didn’t like Reyes was LoDuca and he was eliminated within 2 years. Just because the media doesn’t recognize it doesn’t mean it’s not happening. In 2007, you found out who was leader of this team was. When Randolph tried to usurp authority from Jose, Jose was undaunted. The team sided with Jose. At the end of the season, when Willie tried to will his team, they shut him out. The team didn’t fight for their manager. In 2008, Willie was toast. The team rejected him. Randolph never recovered the dugout. Why? He attacked the team’s leader. Delgado got the brunt of it, because he turned back on Willie and supported Reyes, the OBVIOUS leader of the Met squad. Wright was too busy chewing his fingernails and getting drunk with LoDuca to get involved.
Why haven’t any of you bothered to notice it? The media didn’t make it obvious by telling everyone Reyes was the leader. Not the DN, NYP, SNY, 11. No one bothered recognizing what was so evident. What’s been evident for years. What’s going to be evident if Jose isn’t resigned.
“LMAO @ these SS better than Reyes with the glove. Cabrera? Gonzalez? What? Tulo? OMG. I’m going to leave that alone.”
Yeah OmarFan, maybe you should leave it alone since Baseball America does a survey with MLB Managers and they voted Tulo the #1 fielding SS in 2010 and 2011?
That was probably the media’s fault also.
let’s get JJ hardy in flushing next year.. he’s got 23 home runs and 54 Rbi’s..
I’ve realized alex that what you do is look for the one sentence you understand and you spin it rather than discuss the topic at hand.
The point of mentioning JJ Hardy is he makes the AVERAGE $ amount of what I’d say are MLB’s Top 10 SS’s this year. Thus creating what some would say “the market is” for a Top 10 SS. Paying Jose Reyes DOUBLE what JJ Hardy makes (as I suggested) for 5 years is MORE than fair based on Reyes’ ability+time on the field.
If you’re asking me would I rather have Jose Reyes at $20mil for 6 years or JJ Hardy for 5-7mil for 2-3 years. I’ll take Hardy. I’m sorry if that hurts your feelings, but his contract would be a better VALUE than Reyes’ if it were 20mil.
I don’t WANT J.J. Hardy, I want Jose Reyes to get a reasonable contract, but if he walks into negotiations demanding 16+mil for 6 or more years, then the Mets need to start looking elsewhere IN MY OPINION.
Jose Reyes is going to determine where he ends up. If he wants to be a Met he’ll look for a fair contract. If he wants to just get paid, then let him go to Washington and add $ to their DL List rather than ours
THANK GOD you are not part of any transaction the mets do, otherwise we’d be stuck with the jj hardys, eamus and chris young’s of the world.. all while piling up “draft picks” right..
Alex so just to be clear since you have still NEVER answered me.
Jose Reyes and his agent walk into a room with Alex68 the GM of the Mets.
What does Reyes have to demand for you to tell him to go test the free agent market?
How much $ is too much to give Jose Reyes if you’re running things?
too much or contract value??? i’d give him 5 years 115 miilion with an option for a 6th inning
$23 million a year? That’s nearly what Hicks gave Rodriguez.
and who has the option on that 6th year?
the mets..
You realize that’s a bad idea, right? That even the most optimistic of Reyes supporters put him at $18-$20 million?
That if you give Reyes that contract, Ike Davis is going to want close to $30 million a year when its his turn if he picks up where he left off?
If you look at the market, if you look at comparable players, if you look at reality and if you look at performance giving Jose Reyes $14mil for 5 yrs with a 6th option is MORE than fair.
If the Mets lowball and start off under 10 mil then Reyes should walk.
If Reyes walks in there expecting 17+mil and 6+ guaranteed, then the Mets should let him walk
You don’t pay a player anything he wants when he’s won nothing, and has spend almost the majority of the time sitting on the bench over the course of 3 years.
You will always have one moron owner willing to break the bank and screw it all up. $18 million should be enough to protect against that.
please explain your term of “won nothing”…
23 million dollars a year! Yeah its a good thing I’m not running the show and you would be right?
You want to make Jose Reyes who has spent almost half as much time in 3 years on the bench/DL as he has on the field the 6th highest paid player in the sport! (I’m including an eventual Pujols contract)
Give me a break. Jose Reyes has done NOTHING to deserve $23 million a year.
ok…
Let me put it like this. If te Mets give Jose Reyes $23mil for 5 years with a 6th year option… the biggest parties in town will be inside the Philadelphia, Atlanta, Florida and DC Front Offices.
The mets should have traded him. Jose is all tools, a lot of flash, but somehow team after team gets to and wins a WS year after year after year, without Jose Reyes or a Jose Reyes type on their team. Sure he is exciting, and fun to watch. Do you want to be entertained first and win second? First and foremeost he is an asset, andJose should have been used to bring back present or future talent. We all know what is needed to get to the WS. Once again the FO caved. I would have respected SA more if he had pulled the trigger. I know Jose went down well before the deadline but it was pretty apparent they were hanging on to him when he did get hurt.