Updated NL East Report: Phillies Get Pence, Braves Get Bourn

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• MetFan Lou July 30, 2011 at 8:54 am

  WOW! cAN THE pHILLIES GET ANY STRONGER?
  • Peter R. July 30, 2011 at 10:40 am

    The answer has been asked and answered every year since 2007. Yes they can get stronger and they do so every year. Amaro only has one gear WIN.
• Little Nicky July 30, 2011 at 10:08 am

  Wow, we suck!
• Steve July 30, 2011 at 10:19 am

  Hunter Pence will be a monster in that park and what an upgrade over Jason Werth. Brown will probably go to AAA and then replace Ibanez in 2012. Phils will be dominating the NL East for the next decade. Their GM is not afraid to pull the trigger and add big players every deadline and yet still manage to keep his better prospects. Two straights seasons of hearing A) The Phillies wiped out their farm system and B) They cant take on anymore payroll, wrong on both counts. Phillies are raking.
  • Steve July 30, 2011 at 10:22 am

    One more thing, I’m not worried if the Braves get Upton, but if they end up with Michael Bourn that’s a huge bat at the top of their lineup and at full strength their offense can go toe to toe with the Phillies easily.
• Metsie July 30, 2011 at 10:27 am

  Doesn’t anyone else find it odd that for the first three months everyone touted the Phillies as being the guys whio know what they are doing and that we should emulate their build from within despite the fact that in the past three years they have done nothing but trade away their kids to get the players that help them win now?

  What happened? WHy are the GENIUS’ of the build from within philosophy not building from within?

  Is it because they know building from within at some point has to stop and trading for now is how you get a big lead in the Division?
  • Peter R. July 30, 2011 at 10:37 am

    The interesting thing I see in the Phillies is that they are getting these players trading away guys comparable to Dillon Gee, Lucas Duda, and not huge prospects. They’ve now made four huge trades for players in which they moved 3-4 prospects each time. They are the cream of the crop bar none in the NL. They will be good for a very long time and in fact we are seeing a dynasty. Mets may play in a bigger market with higher revenue potential, but they’ve become insignificant in the East. They may need to move to the NL West before they ever see a division title in the next 10-15 years.
    • Metsie July 30, 2011 at 10:44 am

      Exactly Pete….

      They are doing by trading away a bunch of kids who two months ago were deemed WORTHLESS and cited as reason why we needed to have a fire sale so we could get the kids needed to make trades!
  • Donal July 30, 2011 at 11:23 am

    Yes, they used their farm system to not only supply the big club, but as chips in trades. That’s what happens when you spend resources to build your farm. If you don’t have a Cliff Lee or Hunter Pence in your farm system, you can trade to get them.

    But, you have to build that farm system first.
    • Metsie July 30, 2011 at 11:37 am

      Which resources did they spend (other than their normal draft picks) to build their farm pray tell?

      Scott Rolen and who else?

      They built their farm the good old fashioned way…By SUCKING BIG LONG TIME!

      And after getting top selection for a decade that had plenty of MISTAKES that they then traded away to get the guys they SHOULD have gotten in the first place if they were REALLY very good at evaluating and judging talent!
      • Donal July 31, 2011 at 9:07 am

        No, they built their system by drafting wisely. Domonic Brown was a 20th Round selection.

        Ryan Howard was in the 5th round

        Hammels was the 17th over all selection

        Rollins was a second round pick

        Carlos Ruiz was an International Free Agent (why is everyone overlooking those?)

        Victorino was a rule 5 pick

        The Phillies have a strategy that differs from the convention. They draft high school guys in their middle rounds that most teams think have high potential but are going to college, so they don’t touch them. The Phillies then offer them big money and sign a few of them. These tend to be toolsy position players and power throwing pitchers. What they lack in quantity, they make up for in quality.
        • Metsie July 31, 2011 at 10:58 am

          Yeah they were VERY Wise…

          Tell me if they were so wise then how come in 15 years of 1st rounders (18 1st rounders total) the only guys they added from that round WERE Utley and Hamels? Hmmm?

          Reggie Taylor instead of Roy Halladay in 95
          Eaton instead of Milton, Westbrooke Meche or Marquis they picked 11th overall that year! They got Rollins with the 11th pick in the 2nd round.
          Burrell instead of Sabathia and a slew of others in 98
          Brett Meyers instead of Victorino in 99

          I could go on and on here….

          Howard was a wise pick? He was a lucky pick that wasn’t expected to do much and the truth is the only thing he does well is hit HRs. When he isn’t striking out!
          He is not a WISE pick he is their version of Tom Brady! They didn’t have a clue he was any good if they had they wouldn’t have waited till the 6th round!
          They got Utley 15th pick in the draft.
          Hamels 17th Pick in the draft.

          And then had to trade away all those misses they took to get the guys they passed on like Halladay, Lee, Werth and all those other guys you think make up their HOME GROWN core!
          • Mr North Jersey July 31, 2011 at 11:37 am

            I have no desire to defend of all teams the Phillies. I just want to add that other than the Lidge trade which turned out to help them win a W.S. in 2008. The trades of Amaro have yet to see them payoff in winning a W.S.

            Unlike the 2008 team that won with a number of players coming from within the system and one via Rule 5 Draft.
            Players like:
            Carlos Ruiz, Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Jimmy Rollins, Pat Burrell, Cole Hamels, Brett Myers, Kyle Kendrick and Ryan Madson.
            All players that came through the Phillies system unless i am misinterpreted something.

            Shane Victorino a Rule 5 pick.

            Jamie Moyer and Jason Werth key free agent signings.

            Since Amaro took over he has done some big trades no doubt about it but it has not given him what his predecessor accomplished yet. I hope to continue to see him continue to be the winner of “making the big trade that “Doesn’t” result in winning a W.S.”.

            I recently did a post that explores some of the Phillies recent trades and the players that they have given up in acquiring them. I hate to admit it but I have to credit Amaro in how he has gotten some of the players he has without giving up what seems like anything significant.

            If your interested you can check it out here.
            http://realdirtymets.com/2011/07/30/amaro-jr-phillies-prospects-oh-my/
            • Trufan July 31, 2011 at 1:08 pm

              The Lidge deal benefited the Astros more than the Phillies. Bourn has performed at All-Star levels that past 3 years while Lidge only gave them one good year.

              Most of the present Phillies team and the prospects they traded away were already in place before Amaro became GM. The only great moves Amaro made was trading for Halladay and Lee. He was dumb in dealing away Lee. The Pence trade isn’t much of a steal considering Pence isn’t that great of a player.
          • Donal July 31, 2011 at 3:44 pm

            “Tell me if they were so wise then how come in 15 years of 1st rounders (18 1st rounders total) the only guys they added from that round WERE Utley and Hamels? Hmmm?”

            Way to miss the point.
            • Metsie July 31, 2011 at 3:57 pm

              Easy to miss when your point doesn’t exist. You say they drafted wisely. I showed you they were not all that good and got luck in the fact that Howard turned out to be something no one expected and that they were able to sell other teams on taking wholesale lots of bad draft picks to get the Pitching and players they needed…

              SO far you guys claimed they stockpiled picks (which they did not Rolen was the only one who was traded for picks) and the notion they picked wisely which means 4 guys in 15 years worth of top half draft position picks.
• chuck July 30, 2011 at 10:31 am

  The Phillies are stacked with really good players. Pence is a huge upgrade and they didnt have to give up Dominic Brown.
• L.J. Phipps July 30, 2011 at 10:58 am

  Phillies did what they needed to do, as they have done for the past 2 years, add an impact player. Pence is solid and should lengthen that Phillies line-up. The Braves need some help, but I do not see Upton being the answer. Quentin on the other hand would give them a serious boost and give them enough to hold on till McCann gets back. They need some of their other players to pick up the pace. Heyward is not the threat he was last year but if he gets hot that will be trouble, Prado has his moments, and Larry is in and out of the line-up. Uggla seems to be coming to life and if their pitching puts the pedal to the metal they may very well be tough to catch in the wild card. A lot of baseball left, and I am hoping that the Mets can be relevant. I want them to be more than spoilers.
• Bayonne Mets Fan July 30, 2011 at 12:14 pm

  According to Gary Cohen last night on SNY the Phillies moved their top minor league pitching prospect and hitting prospect.

  Seems like Amaro is the genius around here so why isn’t there a book about him? The word “genius” has been thrown around loosely like a frisbee on this site and for all the wrong reasons. The Mets have NO geniuses in their front office. Just a guy who’s made some bad moves and a couple of good moves. Pretty typical GM stuff y’know?

  Why is there only a book about people who have NEVER won anything and have NEVER drafted any major stars? There’s a book about them but not about Amaro Jr.

  Funny.
  • Hitman July 30, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    You seriously gonna call Amaro a genius for trading his top hitting and pitching prospect for a guy that’s ultimately a strikeout machine in Pence?
    • Bayonne Mets Fan July 30, 2011 at 12:44 pm

      Yes

      A 28 year old .308 hitting strikeout machine with 11 HRs and 62 RBIs. Absolutely.

      He just replaced losing Jason Werth with Hunter Pence for “prospects” that may or may not work out.

      Too much talk about “prospects” these days. I guess that’s good for those who are looking for direction and can’t make their own minds up and instead follow the lead of a new leadership that is an unproven leadership with no history of winning except one year in 1989. And that’s combining all 3 of the Holy Trinity.

      prostpects are just that – prospects and I’m sure Amaro knows what he’s doing. HE’s a genius not the guy leading the Mets.
      • Des July 30, 2011 at 1:10 pm

        Pat Gillick makes the decisions for the Phillies. He reports to Ruben Amaro but more importantly to the top dog. His title is: Senior Advisor to the President/General Manager.

        Amaro may wind up being a terrific executive but Pat Gillick has shown himself to be that already.
        • Bayonne Mets Fan July 30, 2011 at 1:22 pm

          Oh more original reporting?

          You better notify SNY, MLBNetwork and all associated media affiliates because everybody is reporting that Ruben Amaro is making these decisions.
          • Des July 30, 2011 at 2:36 pm

            Shows how little you and they know. Pat Gillick approves every trade unless they changed how they operate recently. Gillick lives on the West coast to be near his family but with the internet and cell phones, it’s the same as next door.
            • Bayonne Mets Fan July 30, 2011 at 2:50 pm

              Everybody goes to the west coast to be with their family as far as your concerned, we’ve been down that road before.

              you show me where Gillick is making the decisions okay? Far be it from me to think that Gillick JUST MAY believe he has a guy running things and is doing fine. Keep speculating but Ruben Amaro is running thing and until i see something different from a professional source you can keep on with your original reporting about people who travel to the west coast
              • Des July 30, 2011 at 3:42 pm

                What you see is irrelevant to most baseball fans.
                • Bayonne Mets Fan July 30, 2011 at 4:17 pm

                  As usual Des is backing out of false claims – again!

                  Stop the dodging, put down your Alice In Wonderland book and simply show me and everybody else here WHERE Pat Gillick is telling Ruben Amaro what to do?
                  • Des July 31, 2011 at 1:08 pm

                    I can only conclude that you are at best misinformed. Apparently if an article is not in the few sources that you read, it’s not true. Sad and factually incorrect. When Gillick left Philly, according to Philly sports columns I read, Gillick said he wanted to be close to his daughter and grandkids. Of course the Phillies knew what they were losing. Pat is a front office stud. He was elected to the Hall of Fame this year. The guy is insightful and experienced. He reports directly to the president of the phillies as well as to Amaro. Ruben got his job only when Gillick nominally retired. Here are a couple of statements about Gillick;

                    Gillick has been called the ‘best GM of all time.”
                    http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/07/22/the-best-gm-of-all-time/

                    Another quote:
                    “there are those who will claim that Gillick’s fingerprints still cover the team.
                    If Gillick gets a new job, Amaro will finally be able to stand on his own.”
                    http://phillysportscentral.com/phillies/rumor-phillies-adviser-pat-gillick-wants-to-be-a-gm-again.html

                    After Gillick left the Phillies, interest was shown in him by the Mariners, the Mets and the Cubs. All this info is readily available on the internet. The talk about a possible involvement with the Cubs is currently ongoing.

                    “I said to somebody the other day that I was open to the situation, not as a GM but as a president,” Gillick said. “If I thought it was the right situation then I would sit down and try to get a little deeper into what the responsibilities are and their long-term game plan. You’ve got a short-range game plan and certainly the short-range is to win right now but then there is a long-range plan too so that’s very important.”
                    http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/6812447/pat-gillick-open-working-chicago-cubs-gm-jim-hendry
  • Donal July 31, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    “According to Gary Cohen last night on SNY the Phillies moved their top minor league pitching prospect and hitting prospect.”

    Well, depends on how we define prospect, but ya, you could say that.

    “Seems like Amaro is the genius around here so why isn’t there a book about him?”

    Ummmm, what? You know a lot of people don’t like the trade, right? That some knowledgeable people say Amaro over paid?

    “The word “genius” has been thrown around loosely like a frisbee on this site and for all the wrong reasons. ”

    I agree, so if you and your buddies could quit using it improperly, those of us that understand the English language would really appreciate it.

    “Why is there only a book about people who have NEVER won anything and have NEVER drafted any major stars? There’s a book about them but not about Amaro Jr.”

    You really need to stop worrying about a book you’ll never read that doesn’t even apply here.
• Updated NL East Report: Phillies Get Pence, Braves Get Bourn @ Facility Blog August 1, 2011 at 11:01 pm

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