Comments on: My National League All-Stars

By: jessep

jessep — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 16:43:18 +0000

I agree in terms of star power for sure.

For me, if a front office wants to look at FIP or whatever you used, that’s fine. For me, I like Hits allowed, Walks allowed, K, K per IP, H per Ip, ERA and W-L.

By: jessep

jessep — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 16:31:47 +0000

Hanson is better with regards to Hits per inning pitched, almost identical in terms of K per inning pitched. Hanson has given up less runs and won more games. I’m not saying its hands down… but Hanson has pitched better overall than Lincecum in my view.

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:50:57 +0000

And what stat do you use to measure how much you hate Jose Reyes?

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:37:12 +0000

Fair enough. It’s certainly a valid argument. I think Lince was a little better, but I also think with this being an exhibition of star-power, it’s not really close in that regard.

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:34:36 +0000

As far as strand rate goes, Joe, Tyler Clippard and Antonio Bastardo are far and away the best middle relievers in the NL, stranding over 99% of their inherited runners and doing it with an 11.15 and 10.20 K/9, respectively. Of note, Taylor Buchholz has an 87% strand rate, seventh in the league, but has a higher K/9 than anyone in front of him aside from T-Clip and Bastardo. He’s also got an K/BB rate better than Bastardo and almost identical to T-Clip.

Know who has the absolute lowest strand rate of all qualified relievers in the NL, and a very low 1.83 K/BB rate to boot? Pedro Beato. So don’t be fooled by his 3.72 ERA.

By: Joe D

Joe D — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:20:15 +0000

I know they have stats that show inherited runs scored and another called strand rate, and I cant stand the “holds” stat intended for middle relievers, only thing worse is the save. All relievers should be evaluated exactly as you would starting pitchers (excluding longevity measurements) with an emphasis on strand rates and performance with inherited runners. I would also prefer relievers with higher K/9 and GO/AO rates.

I didn’t realize it was 32, but I’d agree we’d be very similar.

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 14:55:26 +0000

Thanks, Joe. We agree mostly, and would probably agree even more if you had filled out your entire 32-man roster. I didn’t pick Jurjens because his FIP and xFIP are pretty high, but he’d be on my short list of replacements for guys who may pitch the prior Sunday, along with Lincecum and Hanson.

And as far as RPs go, you’re right, but we both know middle relievers are rarely ever given a shot because there’s no one statistic that compare them.

By: jessep

jessep — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 14:45:21 +0000

Xtreem:

This is where I divide from sabermetrics. I don’t know what FIP is, nor do I care.

If it helps teams find better talent, that’s fine. But as a fan for the AS Game… I don’t need it

Hanson 15GS 89.1IP, 97K, 33BB, 29R, 62H, 9-4, 2.62 ERA
Lincecum 17GS 112.I, 122K, 40BB, 44R, 92H, 6-6 3.04 ERA

That’s what I look at. And I’m not saying Lincecum is bad. And in terms of star power, Lincecum should go. But Hanson is having a better season.

Anibal doesn’t even matter anymore after he got shelled last night for 7 runs in like 3 innings I think it was.

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 14:29:30 +0000

Jessep, I’m not into hardcore sabermetrics, either. I don’t care for WAR, I rarely use OPS (and only do for quick-glance comparisons), and if it involves a “replacement player,” you can keep it. But I do think FIP and xFIP are important and useful. If W-L record and ERA are the only areas in which you can show me that Hanson is better than Lincecum this season, we’ll continue to disagree.

You’re probably right now with Anibal from last night, but if he doesn’t go, Sanchez HAS to, so you can’t replace Pujols with Hanson, anyway.

By: Joe D

Joe D — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 14:11:12 +0000

FWIW, my NL choices:

C – Brian McCann (Miguel Montero)
1B – Prince Fielder (Joey Votto)
2B – Rickie Weeks (Danny Espinosa)
3B – Aramis Ramirez (Wiggy)
SS – Jose Reyes (Tulowitzki)
OF – Berkman, Braun, Kemp (I take Beltran and Upton as reserves.)

Top 3 SP – Jair Jurrjens, Roy Halladay, Cole Hamels (Phuck Philly)

Top 3 RP – Joel Hanrahan, Mike Adams, Jonny Venters (Screw the saves, these guys are the best)

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 03:54:19 +0000

Jessep…

as for ERA/FIP/xFIP
Hanson 2.62/3.14/3.06
Lince 3.04/2.72/2.83
Anibal 2.82/2.83/2.93

K/9, BB/9
Hanson 9.77, 3.32
Lince 9.77, 3.20
Anibal 9.14, 2.48

Hanson’s also got the higher tERA of the three. I disagree with you on Hanson over those two.

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 03:45:13 +0000

Beltran may have been a homer pick. McCutchen is All-Star worthy, but I’m not a fan of WAR. It factors in UZR, which is so erratic itself and needs at least three years worth of info to be remotely useful, so I don’t use WAR for anything more than a simple ancillary guideline,especially when trying to compare three months worth of games.

Their wOBAs are almost identical, Beltran has a higher OPS, a slightly higher average, a slightly better K/BB rate and is doing it all with a much lower BABIP. I like Beltran better. And to be fair, remember…..I did have Cutch, until that stupid rule forced Pence onto the team.

By: jessep

jessep — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 03:40:36 +0000

Btw anibal got rocked today and as an fyi…Tulo was just taken out of the game possibly for rest but no word yet

By: jessep

jessep — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 03:27:02 +0000

thoughts on Hanson over Lincecum and Anibal?

Also Hamels is having a better overall season than Roy, no? I mean both are great… but Cole has been slightly better just way way more under the radar

By: Nicholas Pugliese

Nicholas Pugliese — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 02:57:45 +0000

Hanson has missed some time which is what I think could keep him off.

By: Nicholas Pugliese

Nicholas Pugliese — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 02:55:56 +0000

McCutchne over Beltran easily for me. Their averages are the same, Beltran has one more homer, and 13 more RBIs but Cutch has the steals by 12, defense, and runs scored. I could be confused with this, but if Cutch has hit leadoff at all this year than his numbers are 10x more impressive than Beltran’s. The clincehr…McCutchen’S WAR 4.1 Beltran’s 2.6

By: jessep

jessep — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 02:53:16 +0000

When I say Hanson over Sanchez etc. I’m assuming your scenario’s happen. So Pujols out, I don’t put Lincecum in, I’d put Hanson.

McCutch gets screwed because Houston doesn’t have any other all stars. But if there was a way he should go in over Pence

By: jessep

jessep — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 02:51:17 +0000

3B: Why doesn’t Aramis make your top 3?

C: 3rd would be Yadier in my view

OF: I’d put McCutch over Pence myself

SP: As much as we know Roy is the best SP in the league. Hamels in my view deserves the start.

I also put Lohse on the team over Correia. I’d also put Hanson over Sanchez.

Closers, I put Heath Bell over Axford. Wouldn’t be surprised if a kid like Tyler Clippard makes it.

By: XtreemIcon

XtreemIcon — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 02:17:38 +0000

Agreed,I originally had Cutch. Then went through everyone and realized that the Astros were left out. Had to be Pence.

Aramis can make my top 3. I just don’t care because they’re all about as average as can be.

Yadier doesn’t measure up to Iannetta’s all-around game this year.

As far as T-Clip, it could happen, but middle relievers are often shut out.

Axford’s been a little bit better than Bell this season, but Bell’s certainly good enough to make the team.