MMO Rapid Reaction: Carlos Beltran Trade

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• Pete July 28, 2011 at 8:27 am

  Matt Harvey, Jenrry Mejia, Zach Wheeler, Jeurys Familia, Akeel Morris, Michael Fullmer. These kids all throw really hard, with emerging secondary pitches. When our system has ten to fifteen arms like this, we will be the envy of most other franchises. You go Sandy!
  • Steve S. July 28, 2011 at 8:54 am

    and Mazzoni and Verrett, too.
    • Pete July 28, 2011 at 9:15 am

      Verrett has yet to sign, along with about eight over-slot kids. I’m sure Verrett will sign, and Nimmo, but how many of the other kids they get signed, will say a lot about whether this was a good draft or not. Mason Robbins, Phillip Evans, Brad Marquez, AJ Reed, Christian Montgomery, Kenny Matthews, Josh Ake, Jeff Diehl, and Casey Turgeon are the guys still out there.
  • alex68 July 28, 2011 at 9:01 am

    ahh, first of all, calm down, they HAVE to pan out in order to celebrate, second of all “go sandy”?? harvey, mejia, familia and morris are from omar’s F/O, but at the end, i can see where this can be a good problem to have, by 2014 we can have all of them in the rotation..
    • Des July 28, 2011 at 9:13 am

      Having my friend Alex telling Mets fans to calm down made my morning. Great humor. Thanks for the advice, Alex.
      • alex68 July 28, 2011 at 9:33 am

        you’re welcome des.. my pleasure to bring peace to MMO
  • METS62FAN July 28, 2011 at 10:16 am

    PETE, SPOT ON, THE CORRECT ANSWER HAS ALWAYS BEEN PITCHING AND AS A FAN SINCE DAY 1, 1962 i BELIEVE THISAPPEARS TO BE THE STRONGEST BUMPER CROP OF YOUNG STUD PITCHERS SINCE THE LATE 60s, EARLY 70s. WHY DOE EVERYONE SEEM TO OVERLOOK MY FAVORITE DARHAORSE, DARIN GORDKI, ALL THAT & SOUTHPAW TO BOOT!

    AS TO EVERYONE ELSE IN THE THROWS OF REMININISCIENCE TAKE NOTE FROM THIS “OLD SAGE” EMPASIS ON “OLD”

    XTREEM: RESIGN? REALLY? @ 34, ONLY ONE MISSETP FROM USELESS,WORTHLESS, END OF CAREER?

    BRANDON: GARY BROWN, REYES TYPE CFer? BRANDON BELT, 1B? REALLY U WANT OFFENSE REPLICATING A CORE PLAYER(REYES,DAVIS)? SILLY ME, ALWAYS BELIEVED BIG BALLPARKS CALLED FOR PITCHING,DEFENSE & SPEED. IN THAT ORDER OF PRIORITY YUR ALTERNATIVES TO ALDERSON’S SELECTION IGNORES #1 ONLY COVERS #3 & THERE’S ONLY 1 LEADOFF HITTER IN A LINEUP, YET 5 SP IN A ROTATION. I BELIEVE THE MATH SUPPORTS SANDY’S DECISION.

    SATISH: SEE XTREEM’S RESPONSE ABOVE.

    DAVE(RETIRE 31) NATURE & BASEBALL HATE A VACUUM & DOESN’T MURPHY SEEM FORMIDABLY COMFY @ #3?

    JOE D: GARY BROWN, DOM BROWN, MRS. BROWN’S LOVELY DAUGHTER WHATEVERM, WHAST STADIUM DO U SEE WHEN U SEE NYM HOME GAMES? WE CAN CHOSE TO TURN BLUE HOLDING OUR COLLECTIVE BREATHS FOR JEFF WILPON TO ADMIT PUBLICLY HE FAILED IN THE MOST IMPORTANT TASK HE WAS ASSIGNED BY RECONFIGURING HIS “BABY” OR WE CAN BUILD THE MOST COMPETITIVE TEAM POSSIBLE TO DEAL WITH THE EXPANSE WE’RE SADDLED WITH aka “THE HOUSE THAT REYES’ BUILT” THE REAL ‘DITY LITTLE SECRET’ IN THE WILPON HOUSEHOLD, THEIR INFATUTION WITH THE ‘ENERGIZER MET’

    SORRY, GUYS; BUT HE’S GONE, HE WAS REMARKABLY GOOD & LIKE PIAZZA BEFORE HIM, HE COULD NOT OVERCOME THE MEDIOCRITY PLACE ON THE MOUND FOR HIS CAUSE.

    PERSONALLY, I SHED NO TEARS, BELTRAN IS THE PAST. THIS TEAM IS NOW ABOUT THE FUTURE! LO & BEHOLD THERE SEEMS TO BE “A P L A N” AND A DETERMINATION & VISION TO GET US THERE. ALL THA IS LEFT FROM US IS THE PATIENCE NOT TO FORCE A DERAILMENT, AS SO OFTEN HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST, ONCE SANDY’S HONEYMOON WITH WILPONS IS CONCLUDED &^ JEFF RESUMES HIS SURREPTICOUS MEDLING & BACK DEALING TRYING TO INSINUATE HIMSELF INTO MEANINGFUL CONSIDERATION. LET’S NOT GIVE HIM ANY REASON TO FEEL NEEDED DUE TO IMPASTIENCE AS I SEE THE POST SANTANA ERA ROTATION OF 2014 POTENTIALLY AS:
    NIESE
    HARVEY
    WHEELER
    FAMILIA
    GEE*/GORSKI

    *ASSUMING CURRENT TEAR DOESN’T ERODE HIS EFFECTIVENESS.

    FOR THOSE WITH VISIONS OF “GEN K” RENACTMENT I MOLLIFY MY OWN FEARS WITH NUIMBERS. GEN K WAS PRIMARILY LIMITED TO 3 HIGH QUALITY PITCHING PROSPECTS WE ALL KNOW WERE ISRINGHAUSEN,PULSIPHER & WILSON.
    THIS VERSION IS FAR MORE NUMEROUS WITH HARVEY,WHEELER,FAMILIA,MORRIS,FULLMER,URBINA,TAPIA,GORSKI,RODRIGUEZ, ETC. THUS THE OLD STANDARD, “YOU NEVER HAVE ENOUGH OR TOO MUCH PITCHING
• alex68 July 28, 2011 at 9:12 am

  xtreemicon: ” I credit Sandy Alderson for getting a top prospect” first of all, remember that is all he is, a prospect, he can either turn out to be good, or pure crap.. 3.99 ERA in Single A ball is NOT A GOOD SIGN!!!
  Ben Yoel: Absolute steal. Zack Wheeler will form a nice 1-2 punch with Matt Harvey as early as 2013″ Can i get today’s lotto number as well.. i’m optimistic but damn…
  satish: ” I’m going to wait till the full details come in to give kudos to Sandy, but Wheeler alone is a great return. If Sandy can re-sign Beltran somehow, he’s a miracle worker” my man, satish, the most racional and inteligent quote i’ve seen..
  Dave (Retire 31): SPOT ON BROTHER!!
  Robert Knapel: “Wheeler has a ton of potential” AGREE.. “What a steal by Alderson.” WHY????? Let’s wait and see ok..
  Clayton: good points, be optimistic without putting the foot on your mouth..
  Joe D: my exact thought, his very wild, kinda like a righty version of ollie perez remember? strikeouts many, walks too many, but again, he’s raw and we’ll have to see in maybe 4 years what we really got for beltran.. as of now, let’s see how DUDA who is the actual beltran replacement performs instead of thinking 4 years ahead.. we still have a shot at this thing ppl.. 7.5 games out..
  • vinnie papandrea July 28, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Alex68 and JoeD, yes Wheeler is just a prospect but even if he turns out to be a complete bust this was a GREAT deal. You were getting nothing for Beltran, instead you get a #6 draft pick with 2 years of development in the SF organization. Of course we don’t know how it will turn out,Beltran as good as he was will not be a Met next year and to make this deal with no leverage is a credit to Alderson. My advice to you guys is WAKE UP
    • alex68 July 28, 2011 at 9:31 am

      i can see your point well taken vinnie, let’s trade an OF all star to a team that might win a WS again, for a bust, doesn’t sound too well in NY.. second of all, this deal was also made because the owners are broke, beltran was a goner no matter what, but thanks to carlos’ amazing season so far sandy was able to get a good prospect, good for him ,but we’ll see in 3 to 4 years hwo he pans out, so let’s not give him the executive of the year award just yet.
    • Mike July 28, 2011 at 9:34 am

      Why does everybody keep saying we were getting nothing for Beltran? The guy is a great player, healthy and the number one outfielder and slugger available. I dont get this notion he was worthless like I keep reading. Last yer the Stros got Paredes and Melancon at deadline for Berkman who was batting .235. Now one of them is their closer and other is having a good season in AA. Was Stros GM a genius too? It’s like all of you believe Alderson was getting nothing more than a 35 year old career minor leaguer. we are talking about Beltran here not Cory Sullivan.
      • alex68 July 28, 2011 at 9:46 am

        do yourselve a favor mike, don’t mention anything oe anybody on a team with a 33-71 record…
      • any July 28, 2011 at 12:33 pm

        mike, that was just a reference to if they did not trade him at all, and he just left at the end of the year.
  • jessep July 28, 2011 at 9:26 am

    alex: In A ball you’re learning how to become a pro pitcher… an ERA is not a very good sign of things to come in A ball. You try things out here and there, you aren’t fully developed.

    All you can do as a GM trading veterans is get the best projected players you can find. The rest is up to the Mets development program now. His control is not exactly a big problem. He’s already striking batters out, control is up to the pitching coaches to grasp.

    Joe: Not exactly sure how or why you’d say they would be better off with Gary Brown? That’s like saying you want Red apples instead of Green apples to me.
    • alex68 July 28, 2011 at 9:32 am

      so is his 5 walks per 9 innings not an alarming issue either?? just saying…
      • srt July 28, 2011 at 9:47 am

        Not to me – not at that level anyway. He’s got a ways to go to refine his skills, including limiting that walk rate.

        This isn’t a major league ready pitcher with an ‘alarming’ walk rate. It’s a low A ball prospect who has plenty of time left to develop before determining what type of pitcher he’ll become.
      • Donal July 28, 2011 at 12:21 pm

        Is it alarming? No. It’s something he has to work on, which is the whole point of a minor league system. The walks seem to be a product of him still getting the hang of his new delivery, something all the scouts say is for the better.

        The fact that he has so much raw potential makes him a tremendous pick up.
        • alex68 July 28, 2011 at 12:29 pm

          ok.. let’s hope he pans out, i’d be the first one rocking his jersey!!!
        • Donal July 28, 2011 at 1:01 pm

          By the way, that walk rate decreased since last season. Small sample size and all, but it could be a sign.
    • XtreemIcon July 28, 2011 at 9:49 am

      Jessep, Alex, here’s a related story for you:

      I live about 20 minutes from where the Twins AA team plays in CT and I go sometimes because minor league baseball is stupendous. I remember three years ago, some Twins pitcher (can’t remember the name), gave up five runs in about 30 seconds because he threw 17 straight sliders. I counted after the fourth, because it seemed odd he’d throw only sliders. But he threw 17 straight to five batters and got hammered. He got out of the inning and when he came back to the dugout (I was sitting behind it), he got handshakes and “nice job” and “good pitches” like they were happy about it.

      When I got home, I looked up the kid’s scouting report and they all said the same thing. “Needs to develop a second pitch.” The reason he was throwing sliders is because he needed work on them, and if the opposing team figured out what he was going to throw and jumped on it, then so be it. It wasn’t about his ERA, or the score, it was about the kid learning and improving his slider and throw it where he wants. Subsequently, I kept tabs on him. Over his next four games, he pitched 5 innings, two hits, one walk, six strikeouts.

      So Alex, to answer your question directed at me, 3.99 ERA in single A doesn’t mean anything. I’d advise you not to get caught up on it. I’d also advise you to forget about his walks, too. It’s not something to worry about now. Control can be harnessed. Wheeler already has the difficult part nailed down, two plus pitches and a solid foundation for a third. The control can be taught, the talent can’t.
      • alex68 July 28, 2011 at 10:36 am

        ok, xtreemicon, i see your point, well taken..
    • Joe D July 28, 2011 at 9:50 am

      I preferred a bat, and while both players are at High-A, Brown is having an all star season in his league batting .317/.387/.463, 39 SB, 8 HR, 6 3B, 28 2B, 58 RBI, 76 R in 96 games. I already mentioned my concerns with Wheeler, raw and not as polished as Brown.
      • alex68 July 28, 2011 at 10:35 am

        so is corey vaughn!!!!
        • Joe D July 28, 2011 at 10:43 am

          Ahh, a Cory Vaughn fan are ya? Stay tuned for our exclusive interview with him which will go up sometime today or tomorrow. Amazing guy and future stud and fixture in Mets outfield.
          • alex68 July 28, 2011 at 10:52 am

            nice, there’s something about him i like a lot, it helps that his father played in the bigs, but he seems like a humble kid, and a future star for us.. he will be our Carlos Beltran!! (god willing of couse)
• James K. July 28, 2011 at 9:27 am

  @ Joe D.

  It goes without saying that it’ll be years before we know how Wheeler develops, but now is not the time to discuss that. What’s important is the process. And the process is great. Two months of Carlos Beltran, for a team with pipe dream playoff hopes, in return for a 21 year-old top 50 MLB prospect? Awesome. This is the right way to operate.
  • metsaddict77 July 28, 2011 at 9:39 am

    yeah, so maybe in 4 years we will be competative in the division race.yay.
  • Joe D July 28, 2011 at 9:52 am

    Dont get me wrong, the process is fine, and he navigated this deal prfectly. Just saying we wont know how big a win this was for quite sometime.
    • James K. July 28, 2011 at 10:06 am

      “we wont know how big a win this was for quite sometime.”

      Right. The same can be said for any transaction. It’s a given. We don’t know how Brandon Nimmo turns out. We didn’t know how the Jason Bay signing would turn out. Results are a mystery at this point but the process is here for evaluation. That’s all that really matters at this juncture.
      • t agee July 28, 2011 at 11:33 am

        It is the process that’s important here. One prospect (like one AB) cannot be controlled but have the right thought process in place and more often than not the results will be more to your liking.

        Turning today’s assets into tomorrow’s assets are a vital part of building a sustainable winning baseball team. All too often we are buying guys who’s future is very short and then they leave us with nothing when they go. Just in the last few years Pedro, Piazza, La Duca, Delgado, Trachsel, Redding, Livan, Perez, Floyd, Valentin, Duaner Sanchez, Castillo, Alou, El Duque, Greene, Schneider, Wagner, Arias all combined to leave us with……..Chris Carter. That’s no way to build a sustainable winning baseball team.

        Organizations that win, or at least compete every year think about this year as well as the next five to ten. They know at the very least they have to have something in the minors to make the Santana/Adrian Gonzalez type trade and that for every Brett Gardiner type making 500K and providing good production that supports the cost of bringing in a Texeira.

        Boston makes a concerted effort to acquire guys within a couple of years of becoming a free agent partly to get their walk year production and partly to get the compensation picks. This year and future years were behind the acquisitions of Victor Martinez, Jason Bay, Billy Wagner and Adrian Beltre to name a few.

        The Red Sox have picked up guys like Daniel Bard, Jed Lowery, Jon Lester, Clay Buckholtz and Jacoby Ellsbury by letting guys go.

        The Braves got a terrific year out of Javier Vazquez and then traded (ie sold high) him to the NYY for one of their top pitching prospects in A ball who is now one of the Braves top 4 pitching prospects they didn’t want to let go (Aroydis Vizcaino), cause their thinking of their future as well. They also traded their SS last year (Yunel Escobar) in a deal that returned a minor league SS (Tyler Pasternicky) and Alex Gonzalez to get them to Pasternicky.

        That’s what Alderson’s been attempting to do. Build up some options and depth without giving any away in the hope that that some will come through and either hold the fort or with their value raised, allow him to move them for better younger pieces.

        That’s why the gripping about the one’s that don’t work out (Hu, Boyer, Emaus, Young) is so shortsighted because it’s not the one’s that don’t work out that matter, their easily dispatched. It’s the one’s that do work out that matter (Brydek, Izzy, Paulino, Capuano. These guys could be moved for better talent and younger players and cost us nothing to acquire.

        Pedro Feliciano might have been able to help us this year but Fulmer could REALLY help us down the road either in our rotation for 6-10 years or as part of a trade for a big time ace.

        Yeah it hurts to lose Carlos but that’s the cost of going for it every year. Sometimes you have to take a step back inorder to realistically compete for a prolonged period of time.

        Your Organizational decisions cannot be about this year, every year without this day coming sooner or later.
        • Squidoo July 28, 2011 at 5:11 pm

          You burned all your credibility when you included Mike Piazza as Tim redding-type acquisition. Clearly you have no clue to insinuate the Mets messed up by acquiring Piazza. What an outrageous claim to make.
• srt July 28, 2011 at 9:45 am

  For all those who kept saying no way the Mets are getting any team’s top prospect for Beltran, I’m guess this is one time it’s good to be wrong, huh?

  Since the Mets didn’t exactly stay in the post season race this first half thereby making this trade of Beltran inevitable, I’ll go on record saying this is the best outcome become reality.

  We got a team’s top pitching prospect – one highly rated overall across all team’s prospects.
  We don’t have to see Beltran in the division in Philly or Atlanta. If this trade had to go down, this was the best case scenario. Good for Beltran as well since he didn’t want to go to an AL team and he wanted to go to a contender.

  Thanks for the memories Carlos and I hope you get that WS ring you weren’t able to get here in NY.
• Mr North Jersey July 28, 2011 at 10:38 am

  1st This trade for me was never about being happy to see Beltran go. Beltran was gone on Opening Day. The only question that remained was will he be gone at the end of the season or sometime before it?

  This trade was about being happy that prospect-wise the Mets did a good job getting the best deal you can for a player that is having a year much better than anyone expected health-wise that was not going to give you any draft picks once he became a free agent.

  If you look at it in that light you have to agree that the Mets accomplished getting more that most of us could of expected.

  Even Joe who wrote he never believed the Mets could get a Zack Wheeler and was surprised at how many were actually buying into that notion. Who for the record was right in believing so when you think that they got him for a two month rental with bad knees. Would most likely agree now in retrospect the Mets got more than most of us could of expected.

  This was never about being happy to see Beltran go. He was already gone. This was about being happy that prospect-wise the Mets did a good job getting the best deal possible knowing Beltran was gone already.

  Can Wheeler be a bust? Sure that is the risk with all “prospects”. No one is saying they have a guaranteed front line starter in 2013 but the process of getting a player who projects to have the most upside as possible, the process was not a bust.
  • jessep July 28, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Right. All you can do here is be happy they got the best projected prospect they could. A legitimate prospect. The rest is up to the minor league development staff of the Mets.