See my point?

fact is Giants gave up on him for a two month rental. What does that say about how highly THEY touted him?

Yes they have a good reputation for developing young Pitchers…they also have a reputation for keeping them too! They did not in the case of Wheeler!

Now I’m not saying Wheeler can’t be good or that he won’t be good but all of the reasons people think it was a good deal are based on a belief system not so much what the kid actually has done.

And While baseball America may think a lot of him it really isn’t any sweat off their backs when their highly touted evaluations are wrong!

All I know is we have a lot of Kids on our MLB squad that were doing very well with Beltran around to help them…

“They all had Ryan Howard as a 6th round draft pick…was he?”

And most of “they’ will tell you draft boards are just them shooting the breeze and of little value in predicting the draft itself.

They are opinions and not based on anything substantial or fact. It’s about 5 out of 6 guys saying he is good to get those rankings. If it really were that easy then the draft would not be the crapshoot it seems to be.

They all had Ryan Howard as a 6th round draft pick…was he?

At some point you HAVE to put some stock in the fact everybody who covers the sport likes Wheeler don’t you? If not, then are you going to tell me you never once hyped Jose Reyes? In 2003, Reyes had a bad year in AAA, did that lower his stock in your eyes?

And by the way can we stop pretending that all of Wheeler’s makeup is based on his ERA. How’s the defense around him, do you know? How about his 168 strikeouts in 146 innings pitched? That doesn’t work for you? 121 Hits in 146 innings? No? Not good enough? Opponents hit .218 last year and just .224 this year.

“that 34 year old free agent was working to make the other younger players better!” Sorry that is the most Utopian and blind comment i’ve seen in a while. So because Beltran helps Justin Turner (below .700 OPS hitter) he’s more valuable to this FRANCHISE than Wheeler? So if Wheeler hits his potential and is a #1 on the Mets staff, you’re going to dream about the days of Carlos Beltran from August-September instead?

What has wheeler done? Well for starters he was acquired a week ago and is already the Mets top ranked prospect.

All the Mets could have done by dealing Beltran was acquired the best possible potential… and they did. Will Wheeler work out? Who knows… but he has the tools to be a legitimate pitcher for the Mets and that idea alone is more valuable to me than a 34 yr old free agent giving Justin Turner batting tips.

A pitchers ERA in A ball means next to nothing. People who said the same thing recently include John Hart, Bobby Ojeda, Ron Darling. Wheeler has talent, now he has to learn how to pitch. You can’t teach a pitcher his pure stuff. He either has it or doesn’t, but you can teach him how to pitch. In A Ball a pitcher is trying new things, sometimes working on their weakest pitches, or working on specific gameplans from their pitching coach. They don’t just walk out there and pitch.

Bragging about Turner’s OBP being close to Howard’s is not a good thing. Ryan Howard has been a low OBP hitter, its actually his flaw but he makes up for it by mashing. By the way Howard’s OBP is higher than Turner.

Justin Turner had a scorching May and other than that he’s been a bench player on most days. To even think for a second he’s more important to the Mets future than Zack Wheeler is absurd. Turner turns 27 before Opening Day next year. He’s got an OPS under .700. He isn’t a future piece. Has he been clutch? Yes. But so was Lenny Harris.

Gold Glove defense at 2B? 5 errors in 43 games? Brandon Phillips has 4 errors in 102 games… Infante 5 errors in 106 games.

Look I like Turner, but to me his career will end up being similar to a Joe McEwing type player. He’s nothing special, he’s valuable because you need players to fill his role but to say he plays a role in any future decisions is just wrong.

First of all, I don’t consider Justin Turner in the “developing young talent” category. He’s a good bench player on most teams. He’s not being “groomed” for anything. If you want to talk about Ruben Tejada, then sure… but Turner isn’t the best argument to make.

Having Beltran at 34 years old for 2 months doesn’t do as much for this franchise than having a potential #1 starter in Zach Wheeler.

The nezt time Turner feels uncomfortable at the plate, he goes to his hitting coach. That is what they get paid to do actually.

I think the Giants proved last year that pitching can be the most important part of your teams makeup, and with the way Citi Field is constructed, it has to be for the Mets.

I can guarantee you that never ever did the thought “what will this do to justin turner” pop into Alderson’s head when dealing Beltran for Wheeler and I can guarantee you no other GM would think that way either.

If all you need is a veteran presence than you have Jose Reyes who has 9 big league years, David Wright with 8. I know we like to think of these players as still young home grown players but… they’ve been around a while.

based off what? Performance or belief?

So lets follow this out to the conclusion…
Wheeler is good, Pitches a perfect game for 27 batters…
But no one on our team drives in a run…
Does Wheeler help us win that game?

Only if he keeps on pitching until someone does!

that 34 year old free agent was working to make the other younger players better! Does Wheeler?
Will Wheeler win anything for you if the rest of our young players don’t get the extra help they need?

All you did was trade something you were getting now for something you MIGHT get later if that kid ever gets here!
And there is no guarantee you would get it!
we KNEW Beltran was helping us and our kids that ARE here!

So you traded a bird in the hand for something in the bush!
All based on a BELIEF not the actual facts of the players in question.

Your belief may yet turn out to be true!
Not saying it is wrong just saying it is a belief not really based on any empirical evidence unless you consider baseball americas BELIEFES empirical!

You keep talking about number of plays and I’m talking about ability to CREATE WINS!

All it takes is ONE PA to create a win!
It takes an entire game for a pitcher to GET one and even if he pitches a no hitter to 27 batters the win is still not given unless someone drives in a run in that game!

Yes pitching is important. It’s important to have 5 good pitchers!
But having one good pitcher does nothing if you don’t win the other 4 games when he is not pitching!

You win the Gold Glove based on how you field not based on how quick you turn the double play and if you haven’t noticed Reyes hasn’t been all that great on turning them on all those balls Turner has gotten to lately either!

They need to work together on that but he is by far the best fielding 2nd baseman that has played there for us this year!

Turner is in the MLB and as high an OBI as Ryan Howard!

Your problem is your giving your ASSUMPTIONS more creedence than actual performance!

You have high hopes for Wheeler but not for Turner despite the fact Turner is playing gold glove 2B and is very clutch with RISP.

Wheeler has a 3+ ERA against High A ball batters…but your BELIEF system trumps all those facts!

A Regular position player has influence over 5 of them!

Yes he has a greater influence over that ONE game but you still can only get one win from that contribution.
You can get 5 wins from the regular position player!

IF developing young talent is as important as you say then what about the youth that is already here that Beltran was helping to develop.

Justin Turner for example. It was reported that Beltran one day asked Turner how he was feeling at the plate and Turner said “Not comfortable lately”
Beltran took him to the cage and helped him work out some things and he got himself sorted out.

Development of players is more than just having the right coaches and time in the Minors.

Showing a player how to hit well in the MLB is not all there is. Showing him how to maintain that and having someone on the team to turn to for guidance is just as important.

part of what has made the team successful lately is their ability to pick each other up.

It takes more than having good talent in the MiL to be successful. Cause that talent doesn’t do anything until it reaches the MLB. And once it does it is going to take more than just good coaches to keep them focused and able to maintain good practices.

That is where the veteran leadership comes in.
And with Beltran gone we don’t really have that anymore, the next time Turner feels UNCOMFORTABLE who is going to take him to the cage and sort him out?
Jason Bay?

Yes we got a top pitching prospect for Beltran. He will eventually (if all goes well) help us 1 game in 5!
beltran was helping guys like Turner help us 5 games in 5!

Thats a 4 game tradeoff!
Developing youth requires much more than just aquiring them!
You can teach them how to succeed but it takes a Veteran to teach them how to maintain it!

and we fans should be excited about it. We should see a team that has heart and desire and is putting it all on the line to win.

That said, Alderson is not a player and he is not a fan. He is a GM. He was hired specifically to see the big picture and do what is best for the organization. He has to be rational and see how everything stacks up, not get caught up in hype and wishful thinking.

It’s a nice thought RA has but is it reality? Was holding onto Carlos and missing the playoffs worth not getting a top pitching prospect?

The future of the franchise is more important than a longshot.