Decoding Alderson’s GM-Speak: Hey Beltran, You’re Outta Here!

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• Mr North Jersey July 15, 2011 at 1:58 pm

  All I can say is that the growing reality that Krod would reach his vesting option that would put the Mets on the hook for 17.5M in 2012 combined with the unknown factor of the addition of Boras as the new agent and dealing with that and the newest news of the likelihood that KRod could soon submit a list of teams he could not be traded to which was never originally submitted and these things are where other than that they both Beltran and Krod now share the same agent is why I don’t see a parallel/connection between the two.

  I may be proven wrong in my opinion. Time will tell but at this time I just don’t see a connection.
  • Rick July 15, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    That is the longest run-on sentence I’ve ever seen.
• srt July 15, 2011 at 2:11 pm

  ‘…so why can’t Alderson just admit it and spare us the GM-Speak?.

  My question is: ‘what difference does it make’?

  We all knew Beltran was as good as gone come mid season (if healthy) back in ST. Nothing has changed to make me think otherwise.
• alex68 July 15, 2011 at 2:25 pm

  so why can’t Alderson just admit it and spare us the GM-Speak?”

  he’s a savvy man, he knows how to fill up garbage to his sabermetric followers, he keeps feeding them crap like hu and eamus will get on base and have good defense, or chris young is healthy and will help our club all year, the more things happen, the more i am reluctant to say good bye to beltran, alderson came here to save money, he will do so.. for the ppl who wanted to break up the core, in the upcoming days, the inevitable will happen.. that 2005 core of jose, carlos and david, will begin to crumble.. starting with beltran and then reyes (we all know this man will not pay reyes what he deserves but what he thinks he’s worth)
  • jessep July 15, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    Because he’s a GM?

    One day you’re going to wake up and realize many of the moves made had nothing to do with sabermetrics, nothing to do with a 2002 book about another organization and everything to do with digging out of a hole that was created by managing a team recklessly with an open checkbook
    • alex68 July 15, 2011 at 2:31 pm

      what about the garbage he tried to feed all his apologist about hu being a good trade for the org and eamus is a smart baseball players?? then his apologist like you and other came to his defense saying: “well, he got rid of them for not performing” instead of saying what we all thought, they shouldn’t have been here on the first place!!!!
      that set back the mets to a 5-13 start and they were coming out of nicely 41-32 since…
      • jessep July 15, 2011 at 2:35 pm

        So you think Emaus was the reason the Mets started 5-13?

        If turner/Tejada etc wanted to be the starting 2B out of the gate they had a chance in spring training and failed. Thus, you use the guy with an option first before just dumping him without ever knowing if he can hack it.

        As for the Hu trade, you’re acting like people thought a utility infielder dealt for Mike Antonini meant the Mets would contend? He was brought in to add depth to the infield because nobody knew for sure if Murphy could handle 2B, nor did they know if Turner or Tejada were ready.

        So why are you all up in arms about a GM getting himself outs rather than putting all his eggs in 1 basket?
        • alex68 July 15, 2011 at 2:42 pm

          eamus and hu didn’t get on base, didn’t hit nor play spectacular reason, and also, i don’t care what a player does in ST, tejada has been already in the majors and he should’ve been here from the get go, and pls don’t give me that bulls***, we all knew that even if tejada would’ve batted 700 in ST, eamus and hu somehow were gonna end up on the 25 man roster and tejada nor turner wouldn’t..
          • any July 15, 2011 at 2:57 pm

            options are important for every team. If you don’t manage them correctly (a big Omar problem IMO), you lose organizational depth.

            if it was a toss up between Emaus and Turner, you can try emaus and swtich to turner if Emaus bombs. But if you start with turner, and he bombs, emaus is gone already.
            • alex68 July 15, 2011 at 3:01 pm

              ohhh, nice explanation.. let’s try pur guy, let’s not give the guy who’s been here, let’s try the guy who we got because we got him on a money ball saber metric decision
              • Donal July 15, 2011 at 3:12 pm

                We got him in the Rule 5 draft. Maybe if there was real organizational depth or some semblance of a plan by the previous administration, this wouldn’t have been an issue.

                Emaus had no options and Turner did. Emaus got a shot and flopped so guess what: Turner got his shot. Turner came through, so he still has a job here.

                It’s a meritocracy, unlike before.
          • Pete July 15, 2011 at 3:04 pm

            alex, they only gave up $25,000 to take a flyer out on Emaus. Big deal! And Tejada benefited from starting the season at AAA, as his good start there gave him positive momentum and confidence when he was recalled to the bigs. And the guy they traded for Hu, Mike Antonini, is a worthless bum who has topped out in AA. Why are you so up in arms about two totally insignificant moves that were worth the chance? can’t you think of anything better to complain about?
          • Russell Zanca July 15, 2011 at 3:40 pm

            Alex,

            you know I love you, but you are spitting in the wind on this one.
            • alex68 July 15, 2011 at 4:29 pm

              russell, you’re the only who i can rely on to stop me cold.. but my point is, he has made this team worst in terms of depht with his low risk/low reward acquisition, that’s my point..
              • NYMetsfan July 15, 2011 at 6:10 pm

                You point is wrong though, you keep bringing up Hu and Emaus, name me ONE GM that has NEVER had a bad signing ever. Just one. Have you been asleep the last 6 years or do you have selective memory on some of the awesome signings of Omar.

                You are a passionate fan and that I can respect, but I can’t respect your constant misuse of the words sabremetrics and moneyball, you’re making a fool of yourself.

                How did you feel about Davey Johnson when he was here?
• patrick July 15, 2011 at 2:27 pm

  Unlike the bumbling GMs that preceded him, it does appear clear to me that Alderson brings one sure fire thing to the table, leverage. Whereas Minaya, Duquette and Phillips bumbled around in press conferences to varying degrees, here we are, two weeks before the trading deadline and all the wonks told us for six months that unless the Mets ate the remaining money owed Beltran they would get nothing in return. And even eating the contract they could only expect a marginal player. So here we are, Alderson in complete control and the wonks all wrong.
• James K. July 15, 2011 at 2:30 pm

  #firesandyalderson
  • alex68 July 15, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    james, he shouldn’t be fire.. just stop with the lies he’s feeding some of his followers, who surprisingly are a lot considering he’s been in ny for 3 months of baseball and hasn’t done S***!!!
    • any July 15, 2011 at 2:52 pm

      Lies? really? A GM is supposed to “lie” as you put it (more accurately, not disclose all their plans). They all do it. Hell, some flat out lie in public, on purpose, because it suits their needs.

      You seem to be really hung up on Emaus and Hu as being some window into Sandy’s evil plan to SaberMoneyBall the Mets into oblivion.

      what they actually represent are a couple of cheap options that they picked up because they were woefully short of depth at MI. No one knew for sure how solid Jose would be. 2B was a giant wild card. So, the GM (who had very little budget) found the best cheap options he could (a rule 5, and trade for a nothing MiL arm).

      They game them a shot in ST (to compete), and they basically earned a job to start the season. Emaus, because no one else stepped up got a chance. And Hu, because they wanted tejada to play every day in AAA just in case they needed a FT replacement.

      neither guy stepped up enough, others did, so they got a quick hook.

      It was all about depth. And played exactly the way I would want the GM to play the situation (and really, exactly how the other smart GMs do).

      nothing about moneyball.
      • alex68 July 15, 2011 at 2:55 pm

        he didn’t need to go spend the little $ he had on crap, when it’s obvious the solution was in house, we could’ve had jeff francis for half a million more (not that he’s great, but he’s better than pelfrey), we could’ve made better choices than we were dealt with as fans.. the first 18 games, crap on the field brought in by salderson cost us a5-13 start..
        • Donal July 15, 2011 at 3:23 pm

          No, Jeff Francis is measurably worse than Pelfrey. I’ll take Young and Capuano before him.

          Alderson brought in Dickey and his slow start? He depleted the bullpen to a point that we needed a dozen free agents to fill it out?

          the Mets started 5-13 because the organization was shallow, not because Alderson brought in Hu.
          • alex68 July 15, 2011 at 4:25 pm

            No, Jeff Francis is measurably worse than Pelfrey. I’ll take Young and Capuano before him.”

            before him, but wouldn’t be better having francis and capuano instead of just let’s say, capuano and paying young to chill at home??
• any July 15, 2011 at 2:43 pm

  I agree with NJ. Very different situations. since Beltran is gone anyway, trading him is purely a decision based on weighing the value of having him for 2.5 more months, vs. the $ saved (if any, likely not much) and the prospect(s) back for next year.

  whether they keep him or not, the payroll (and roster, assuming the prospects returned would not be ML ready next season) will be the same next year, as will the hole to fill in RF.

  K Rod though, he was all about changing the landscape for 2012, in a big way. 17.5 mill when you are trying to keep payroll in line with revenue is a huge amount to pay for 1 guy, especially one that pitches about 60 innings! That money could easily be spread around to multiple areas, with the team being better overall even without such a “big name” closer.

  Besides, at the pace K Rod was putting runners on, a meltdown was a very real possibility.

  look at last year. If anything, the closer position stabalized when K rod went out, and taka of all people took over.
  • alex68 July 15, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    so you think the mets will spend in the offseason?? they will shed out 60+ million, then will not sign reyes, and come up with a middle infield of tejada and turner, then probably put pridie on RF
    • any July 15, 2011 at 2:55 pm

      they couldn’t get down to 60mill if they wanted to, so that is a silly thought!

      you are missing the point. Yes, they will spend in the off season. Up to a limit.

      and the limit should be the same now as before they traded K rod.

      the difference is, if the limit is say 110Mill, they no longer have K Rod eating up 17.5 of that.

      so yes, they will spend MORE now in the offseason, but still end up in the same place.
      • alex68 July 15, 2011 at 2:56 pm

        again, you DON’T know his plan, he’s a guy who saves money yet you’re thinking he’ll spend with the broke as-s mets.. yeah, that makes sense..
        • Pete July 15, 2011 at 3:17 pm

          dude, the Mets are never going to contend again if they KEEP SPENDING MONEY! They need to build from the bottom up, starting with the draft. And if you knew anything about the draft, you would be encouraged by the new talent that Sandy is attempting to bring into the organization through the draft. and that alex, is the way to build a winner. not by signing so many free agents that you are taking your first pick in the second or third round every year. Omar did not have any decent drafts, the ENTIRE TIME he was Mets GM. That is why our best power hitter in the minors is Aderlin Rodriguez, who sucks, our best position prospect is Wilmer Flores, who sucks, our best 2B candidate, Reese Havens can’t stay on the field, and best OF prospect, FMART sucks AND can’t stay on the field. The best catching prospect that Omar gave us, Francisco Pena sucks, and other than Niese, we may be able to develop a couple of pitchers in Mejia and Harvey. That isn’t much to show for 6 years of drafting players. Sandy’s draft this year is chocked full of jewels, gems, silver nuggets and gold ingots. Sandy went over-slot on at least a dozen players. In six years combined, Omar didn’t draft a dozen over-slot guys. And going over-slot is the only way to build a farm system. Sandy has definitely done a lot so far, alex, you just can’t see it through all the negativity.
          • Pete July 15, 2011 at 3:34 pm

            Oh one more thing, the ONLY reason we were in a position to be able to draft Ike Davis and Matt Harvey, was because we didn’t lose our first round draft picks those years by signing a top free agent. In the recent years we didn’t have our first round pick, we took players like Eddie Kunz, Kevin Mulvey and Stephen Matz with our first picks. Notice any difference there alex?
            • alex68 July 15, 2011 at 4:27 pm

              yeah pete, ike davis is a stud and matt harvey will be a hall of famer.., calm down will ya, as much as i like harvey and want him to do good, let’s just wait and see how hw pans out, let’s not forget our last pitcher drafetd in the first round, mike freaking Big POS pelfrey!!!
• jessep July 15, 2011 at 2:04 pm

  It’s a tough position to be in because let’s just say for conversation sake the Mets rip off 15 out of 17.

  Possible? Yes. Likely? no.

  But if he came out today and said Beltran’s going no matter what, and then the team rips off a monster stretch… he can’t send Beltran packing.

  So you’re at a point where you’re either a liar or not honest. Sure they sound the same but they aren’t. We have a GOOD idea what cards he’s holding, as do most GMs. But he can’t just flat out show us his hand before they make their bet.

  The reason you deal Carlos is simple. You’re getting absolutely nothing for him in 3 months. When you’re a hovering .500 team, you can’t let a guy walk out the door for nothing, unless he’s worth nothing. You just can’t.

  Don’t blame Alderson, blame the guy who agreed to letting Beltran put the clause in his contract that halts the Mets from offering arbitration. I guarantee if that was never a part of the contract, this whole situation would be different. Alderson has no options unless by the grace of god the Mets rip off a monster streak.
  • Tiger One July 15, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Jessep, I agree you that it’s coming down to there only being two options. First, is letting Beltran walk away and getting nothing in return. Carlos’ play in CF was fantastic. His return after injury, adjustment to, and play in RF is admirable. The one thing that hurts him is being too low key. That, including taking that called strike three in the 2006 NLCS, contributes to the feeling of being overly passive. This is New York and we’re used to players rising to the occasion with the bat. Consider the examples, Strawberry, Carter, Hernandez, and Delgado all who could carry a team by how they performed at the plate. We can, because of it being the same city, mention Yankee greats, Ruth, Gehrig, Dimaggio, Mantle, Maris, Jackson, Mattingly, etc. Beltran doesn’t come across as one who can carry a team. He plays well, puts up good stats, but is not the guy I would rely on when needed for coming through in the clutch.

    The second option is trading him to a contender for the “Grade A” prospect or two. This is the one that can conceivably happen. It gives Alderson a chance for adding depth to the farm system, continuing to change the clubhouse attitude, and acquire players that could be used for trades in the off season. This way his hands are not tied because there is maneuverability. The Mets have lacked that for several years.